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Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:34 am
by FisherSucks
Interesting article:
http://www.nbaintelligence.com/content. ... UnderratedDespite his prolonged success with so many different teammates, Steve Nash is still bombarded with criticisms of being some sort of “system” player. Some go as far as asserting that Nash’s teams are inherently flawed because of their offensive slant, and as a result they never win.
Look at Nash this year, at the tender age of 116. (Actual age: 37.) He's led a ragtag group to the 7th best offense in the league (110.1 Offensive Rating, 3.1 points better than average). Slightly ahead of his "system" coach, Mike D'Antoni, in New York. According to 82games, his team is about 17 points better with him in the game.
So, unless we think that his mere presence on the court demands a style to be run through him which literally causes his team’s defense to struggle, I don’t understand how
(a) running into better teams (eg Duncan’s Spurs) or
(b) never being given adequate defensive pieces
is an indictment of Steve Nash’s offense.
Besides Nash being on and “running’ the best offenses in NBA history (both in Dallas and Phoenix), we can also simply watch a basketball game and see whether such an assertion is plausible.
Maybe Nash’s great offenses are because he cherry picks and puts his team at a defensive disadvantage? Maybe Nash’s great offenses are because he inherently requires offensive players who aren’t good at defense?
I’ve seen a lot of basketball — too much, according to many — and I see absolutely no indication of any of these negatives when I watch Steve Nash play. To address the big points often levied against him:
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:58 am
by NYK 455
Massively underrated.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:55 am
by BurningHeart
Totally underrated in pretty much every way.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:31 am
by YFZblu
BurningHeart wrote:Totally underrated in pretty much every way.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:34 am
by JohnVancouver
certainly in terms of paycheque. He's the most important player on the team and has never been the highest paid
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:48 am
by Nando88
its weird to say a TWO TIME BACK TO BACK MVP is underrated... buts it true, the man is underrated
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:00 am
by Lindane
It's not so weird to say he is underrated because so many people don't believe he should have won the MVPs but that is a debate for another day.
I think almost every aspect of his game is underrated, especially his defense. They really need to start keeping track of fouls drawn/charges taken and I guarantee that will put Nash ahead of a lot of others in terms of defense.
And of course, people are only now starting to recognize him for his shooting. He is, hands down, the best all around shooter the NBA has ever seen. He is a member of the 50/40/90 club FOUR times. The only other person to even do it twice is Larry Bird. He is also on his way to do it for a FIFTH time. He would be going for his sixth, but he missed out because his FT% in 06-07 was .899.
I really don't understand why he doesn't try to score more. He is entirely capable of taking over a game, he's just too unselfish or something.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:10 am
by irish22022
honestly, Steve Nash isn't the take over the game kind of player. Those guys are always either the strongest or fastest on the court (or a very good combination of both). Steve's offense relies on the defense being concerned with where he's passing it. Meaning, if he "takes over a game" with his shooting, he's really quite easy to defend. And then you say "well when he starts to draw the attention he can pass it" - which is exactly what he already does. He scores because he passes, he passes because he scores. He can't go into score only mode the way Kobe can. Kobe can score with 3 people guarding him. Steve can't.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:11 am
by now and 4 life
he was robbed of an all star spot due to the west having too many point guards.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:04 am
by Risensun
Always has been and still is. IMO and many others that he's the best shooter(Possibly alltime), passer and has the best handles. Even being top 5 in just one of those categories would be impressive. He's got all 3.
Truly a legend. Lucky to have him as a Sun's fan. Almost makes the dumb ownership, decisions, and plain bad luck which have robbed the Suns of multiple championships tolerable.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:01 pm
by TheJohnWallShow
He is not underrated, id say overlooked is the correct term. He just isnt flashy, in your face, dunk on people type of player which is what seems to catch peoples attention these days. Underrated players dont win MVP. If anything people grade him off his age at this point "oh he's 37 now hes gonna fall off soon..." well let time tell! hes goin strong til 40 no doubt!
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:00 pm
by DRK
YFZblu wrote:BurningHeart wrote:Totally underrated in pretty much every way.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:02 pm
by YFZblu
irish22022 wrote:honestly, Steve Nash isn't the take over the game kind of player.
Not only is this incorrect, but I'd like to take it a step further. Steve Nash doesn't just take over games, he literally runs the entire show offensively every single night. Over the last decade, four players have managed to record 20+ points and 15+ assists in the playoffs. Steve Nash five times, CP3 twice, DWade once, and TMac once.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 40PHO.htmlhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 40DAL.htmlhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 30DAL.htmlhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 40SAS.htmlhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 80PHO.htmlSteve Nash triple double in the playoffs (34/13/12):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 80PHO.htmlSteve Nash scores 48 points in the playoffs, one of five guards in the last decade to do so:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 50DAL.htmlIf the above doesn't define a "take over a game type of player", then I don't know what is.
irish22022 wrote: He can't go into score only mode the way Kobe can.
Kobe Bryant is one of the greatest scorers of all time...NOBODY can score a high volume of points in the myriad of ways that he's been able to in recent years, so I'm not exactly sure of what you're trying to say. Scoring is but a small portion of basketball, there is significantly more to the game than that. In any event, I don't see Kobe throwing up 30+pts and 15+ assists in the playoffs, or LeBron, or Dwight, or Kevin Durant.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:18 pm
by JohnVancouver
irish22022 wrote:honestly, Steve Nash isn't the take over the game kind of player. Those guys are always either the strongest or fastest on the court (or a very good combination of both). Steve's offense relies on the defense being concerned with where he's passing it. Meaning, if he "takes over a game" with his shooting, he's really quite easy to defend. And then you say "well when he starts to draw the attention he can pass it" - which is exactly what he already does. He scores because he passes, he passes because he scores. He can't go into score only mode the way Kobe can. Kobe can score with 3 people guarding him. Steve can't.
Check the stats for what happens when Kobe "takes over" - they'd be better off if he didn't
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:32 pm
by Mac1
hell yes hes underrated!...esp at this given point in time.
if we manage to get our asses into the playoff the praise will soar back in.We have just had a very modest season so far. Not his fault..hes kept it modest ..without him it would be horrific
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:02 pm
by impulsenine
He's the best pure shooter in NBA history, hands down,* and we'll only know his influence when he's responsible for what I hope to see: A wave of young point guards who spent way more time getting their handles, making the pass, and practicing free throws than trying to touch the rim.
* Competition is Larry and Reggie.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:16 pm
by Mac1
pure shooter...ummm what about glen rice? hes up there though!
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:13 pm
by Die93
you cant have 2 MVPS and be underrated
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:34 am
by BurningHeart
Die93 wrote:you cant have 2 MVPS and be underrated
Yes, yes you can.
Re: Is Nash Underrated?
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:16 am
by Wannabe MEP
2 year adjusted plus-minus:
1) LeBron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Steve Nash
1 year adjusted plus-minus:
1) Steve Nash
1 year unadjusted net rating:
1) Steve Nash
There's an unbelievably strong case for Nash as the most valuable player in the league this year, because of how incredibly valuable he is to this team. And he's not even an all-star??
Yeah, he's underrated.