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OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:18 pm
by Crawfulllr
I am a knicks fan who is getting extremely frustrated with Dantonis system. I figured you phoenix fans could please help me explain what the hell dantonis system actually is as he had his greatest success with you guys. It seem as if it is just rush the ball upcourt, spread the floor with shooters and pass to open man. Yet Billups comes out and says this is most complicated offense he has ever run. I never see Dantoni run any set plays, what the hells so complicated.

Here is a funny response I got for my question on the Knicks board, I was wondering if their are any similiarities to his time with your Suns.


sol537 wrote:
Knicks_Fan2 wrote:Someone please explain our current "system" to me.


I'll try to break it down for you so you can understand it easily.

-it's a seven seconds or less system, which means if you have a deep contested shot with no floor balance for offensive rebounds or transition defense, you absolutely take it. That is, you take it so long as you don't have Amare running down the court so you can hit him in stride and watch him run over his defender.

-then once you get into the half-court set, it becomes a set with limitless options:

1) you have the PG on the floor run a psych out pick and roll with Amare or Jeffries that achieves absolutely nothing except to shuffle guys around to different spots. Then from there, you pass it to Fields or Williams in the corner so they could pump fake to give the defender a chance to close out on them. From there, with a few seconds left on the clock, you hit Amare or 'Melo on a high post near the three point line so they can take a turnaround jumper or drive into four ready defenders for a wild heave. once they miss, and this is beautiful part, they have to give the closest ref an earful as they walk back up the floor to get a perfect view a 5 on 4 fastbreak layup on the other side.

2) the other play, which is just as good, has 'Melo or Amare post their man up in an attack position near the three-point line. From here, they can pump fake a few times and launch a jumper or they could hold the ball a few seconds as they watch Fields run from one baseline to the next before they put the ball on the floor as the four other defenders shift to cut them off. If they can avoid the offensive foul here or don't get the ball swiped away as the side of their face is pushing against their opponents chest, they have the option of giving the ball back to Billups or Douglas so they can break down their defender and make it all the way to the three-point line for a heave, chuck and duck style. Everyone knows three is better than two, after all.

-you may be thinking "that's not a complicated system at all" but you'd be wrong. Most coaches call a time-out when the other team scores a dozen unanswered, but in this system, you let the five out there figure it out on the fly. They'll work the ball around the perimeter for a good 20 seconds while they contemplate their next plan of attack. It's genius.

-It's all about keeping the opponent guessing. That's why you have to keep changing who starts at center every other game. If they expect Jeffries, give them Shawne. Once they are ready for that, give them Turiaf. If he's playing well, don't let them gameplan for that. Bring out Jeffries again to throw them off the scent. Even coming out of the half-time break, come out with a different line-up. Tell Fields he's not small enough to play small ball effectively. Dwight expects to get bodied up and fouled hard by Turiaf and Shelden, but put Shawne on him instead because he's never had a guy that short trying to guard him. He won't know what to do. Plus on the other end, he won't know how to defend Shawne's corner three's. It's like taking candy from a 7-foot superbaby.

-And seven seconds or less is not just for the offensive end. On the defensive end, just get after it for the first seven seconds before revving it down. It's like rocky. Use your face to absorb the punches and wear your opponent down while you conserve energy to hit back later on the other end. And that "or" should really be an "and" so you can also literally give "less" of everything--effort, hustle, rebounding, contesting.

hope this helps

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:22 pm
by aIvin adams
lol. no that seems right

the key to SSOL is to have the most athletic and talented basketball players in the league. thats when it worked best for the suns

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:25 pm
by RunDogGun
It is pretty easy, outscore the other team and you win.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:26 pm
by Crawfulllr
aIvin adams wrote:lol. no that seems right

the key to SSOL is to have the most athletic and talented basketball players in the league. thats when it worked best for the suns


This is what I am afraid of. Your phoenix teams especially the roster with Nash, Johsnon, Marion and Stoudemire was amazing and had so much talent. You could pretty much run any offensive system with great players like that and be successful. How many years was Dantoni your gm as well?

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:27 pm
by Crawfulllr
RunDogGun wrote:It is pretty easy, outscore the other team and you win.


Thats what it seems like to me as well. So why do you think Billups comes out and says this offense is the most complicated he has ever played in. Is he lying?

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:06 pm
by Calvin Klein
Your FO screwed up big time. This guy put it really well.



Los Soles wrote:Dear Mike,

We just gave away most of the key players that you need to make your system work. We traded them for a guy that doesn't fit your system, doesn't play defense, and is one of the most overrated and overpaid players in the league (we thought it a good fit with your other overrated and overpaid superstar).

Now that we've shredded your offensive chemistry, massively downgraded your defensive frontcourt ( :lol: can you believe that was even possible?!?), and basically destroyed everything you've been trying to do with this team . . . we'd like you to know that expectations have increased exponentially.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

love,
Jimmy D

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:09 pm
by Kerrsed
Crawfulllr wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:It is pretty easy, outscore the other team and you win.


Thats what it seems like to me as well. So why do you think Billups comes out and says this offense is the most complicated he has ever played in. Is he lying?


No, he isnt quite lying, Billups is a PG that looks to slow the tempo and call run the plays that the coach calls (Like in Detroit and Denver).

Its the most complicated (for him), because there really are no plays (except for after time-outs), and it all rests on his shoulders (Like it did for Nash here).

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:22 pm
by Crawfulllr
Kerrsed wrote:
Crawfulllr wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:It is pretty easy, outscore the other team and you win.


Thats what it seems like to me as well. So why do you think Billups comes out and says this offense is the most complicated he has ever played in. Is he lying?


No, he isnt quite lying, Billups is a PG that looks to slow the tempo and call run the plays that the coach calls (Like in Detroit and Denver).

Its the most complicated (for him), because there really are no plays (except for after time-outs), and it all rests on his shoulders (Like it did for Nash here).


So it seems like Dantoni delegates all the game responsibility to the PG and just focuses on yelling at the refs.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:35 pm
by BurningHeart
He's got awful, awful players for his system. You need a point guard who is quick, has great vision and can shoot the ball. You need supremely athletic forwards, though positions don't really matter in a D'Antoni offense. That's why you saw Tim Thomas and Boris Diaw play center for us sometimes. Your big men have to be able to roll to the basket AND shoot if necessary. Mismatches should be created everywhere. Lancy, athletic perimeter defender types. You need reliable three point shooters to camp at the line waiting for a pass or a swing.

D'Antoni's system isnt working in New York right now because his team just got gutted for an overpaid, overrated, ball-dominant antithesis of what makes his teams click. It's all about distribution, passing, and shooting. The goal is to grab the teams offguard by getting good, open shots quickly in the shot clock. That's why it's imperative to have rebounding. There needs to be someone to rebound the ball and spark the offense. That's why our teams never made the Finals. With the versatility on the team, the defense has no idea what to do. That's what you're trying to do. The short rotation's goal is to create flow and consistency as well. With constant subbing, you lose flow. It's all based on that.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:40 am
by JohnVancouver
and further to which, Mike was GM for less than two years and it was a disaster ... he was a very good coach, but a dreadful GM

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:02 am
by Miklo
RunDogGun wrote:It is pretty easy, outscore the other team and you win.


...regular season games

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:43 am
by charley barkles
got to have unselfish players. or... at least, no more than 1.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:49 am
by toucansma
I don't know why we are discounting his offensive system. It is actually very difficult. Why do you think we could never find a backup point guard. Why do our players (minus Amare) not do as well else where as Phoenix (yes Nash obviously is huge if not the first reason but still). If you read Seven Seconds or Less you will see that it has a lot of plays. I remember how bad J-Rich was doing since he didn't know the plays, took until the next year until he figured it out. If you think about it, how good was D'Antoni out of timeouts (which we see with Alvin Gentry too).

The problem in New York now is two fold. First is players are getting the ball stuck. If you do not think you will get the ball back then you will be less likely to pass, and the ball sticks. Second is I think Chauncey is not able to read the plays or the flow yet. I do not think he is the pg for that style of offense. Plays develop much quicker with SSOL.

I am not saying D'Antoni is the best coach ever, but he is veyr good. Why were all these teams coming to him (ex: Duke) to use his playbook or ask for plays? It is easy to bag on someone when they are not doing well.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:56 am
by Miklo
Coach K asked D'A for plays? Link?

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:51 am
by toucansma
Miklo, here are some links. I will post more, there was a link when Coach K visited the Suns practice that is old and I cannot find at the moment.

http://www.mensbasketballhoopscoop.com/ ... -playbook/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... 2/the.bag/

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:10 am
by Miklo
toucansma wrote:Miklo, here are some links. I will post more, there was a link when Coach K visited the Suns practice that is old and I cannot find at the moment.

http://www.mensbasketballhoopscoop.com/ ... -playbook/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... 2/the.bag/


Whoa, never heard that. Thanks for the links

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:48 am
by Nando88
quick answer:

dolan ruined you're guys chemistry by getting Melo. D'antoni system relies on ball movement and not iso's. you insert Carmelo who a mainly an Iso player and the ball movement stops at melo....

you guys had a good, scrappy team b4 the trade. you guys didn't need melo. you guys needed a legit center.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:57 am
by toucansma
Send Melo to the Nets for Deron Williams.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:36 am
by BVPN
Dantoni's system is basically Nash. Anyway, the solution for NY is not to get players that fit the system but fire that terrible overrated coach.

Re: OT: Mike Dantonis System - Can a Suns fan explain?

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:55 am
by MrMiyagi
BVPN wrote:Dantoni's system is basically Nash. Anyway, the solution for NY is not to get players that fit the system but fire that terrible overrated coach.

Semi-overrated. As mentioned before, he's a fantastic offensive coach.