Page 1 of 2
Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:58 am
by Kerrsed
The Phoenix Suns went from a 2010 Western Conference Finals bid to the lottery in 2011 with a 40-42 record. The big loss was Amar’e Stoudemire, who moved on as a free agent to the New York Knicks, helping NY climb into a long-awaited postseason berth.
Now a year later, where do the Suns go from here?
Are they a playoff team coming off of a one-year hiatus or is it time to truly rebuild?
Suns Most Pressing Need: Direction
The Phoenix roster, as it stands in mid-September, is about what it was after the midseason Vince Carter/Marcin Gortat trade. Grant Hill and Aaron Brooks (restricted) are the team’s two key free agents.
The team drafted promising forward Markieff Morris (13th) in June, but even if Hill and Brooks return, are the Suns appreciably better than they were last year?
Do they come close to any of the five franchises in the Western Conference who won at least 50 games apiece (San Antonio Spurs, Los Angeles Lakers, Dallas Mavericks, Oklahoma City Thunder and Denver Nuggets)?
Can the team develop and invest in the current core or is it time to say goodbye to star point guard Steve Nash?
Keep Nash and Hill?
Nash has been the face of the franchise for seven seasons (not including his initial two in the league before six years in Dallas).
While he’s still among the best point guards in the league (with an insane shooting line of 48.9% from the field, 42.9% from three and 90.4% from the line to go along with his 11.4 assists per game), Steve is already 37-years old and heading into the final year of his contract.
If the lockout takes an entire season to resolve, will Nash play another game with the Suns?
Do they reinvest in the aging guard to the age of 40?
Hill has been as solid as any veteran in the league. Even at nearly 39, he can still play (on both sides of the ball) but unless the Suns are truly committed to winning now, it doesn’t make sense to expect Grant to be a part of the team’s long-term future.
Even if the Suns want to win now, they may not have the means to do so in whatever window Nash and Hills have left.
Let Vince Carter Go
Another (maybe not so tricky) decision is Carter’s $18.3 million contract that has just $4 million guaranteed if he’s cut before the season.
It almost makes too much sense to cut him loose given his 13.5 points per game with the Suns last season on 42.2% shooting.
If Carter is out and the team chooses not to re-sign or extend Nash (or if he chooses to leave), what long-term pieces do the Suns have to build around?
Do the Remaining Pieces Fit?
Both Jared Dudley and Marcin Gortat are solid role-players. Josh Childress was a wash-out in his first years with the team. Hakim Warrick can impress with his athleticism but often times gets through a game without making a significant impact.
Channing Frye stands out but he’s primarily a jump-shooter who is best running pick and pop off of a creative point guard like Nash.
Is Brooks the future at the one for the Suns?
In Aaron’s best year with the Rockets, he averaged just 5.3 assists per game along with 19.6 points. While Nash is a setup man first who can hit shots (big shots) when needed, Brook is more of a scorer than play-maker.
Brooks is also coming off of a down season after an ankle injury which saw his three-point shooting drop from 39.8% in 2009/10 to 29.7% this past campaign.
Mickael Pietrus and Robin Lopez are both going into their final year of their respective contracts although Lopez will likely be restricted. Robin was ineffective for most of the season, often to the puzzlement of Coach Alvin Gentry.
All told, the Suns have a mix of pieces that don’t quite fit together save for the unique creativity of Nash. With Brooks instead of Nash, is this a squad that can even near last year’s 40 wins?
Help Wanted: Guards
At 6’7″, Dudley is more of a small forward but he’s a valuable piece who can play off-guard. Childress can play in the backcourt as well but badly needs to rediscover something to be a contributor for the Suns.
Pietrus is already looking beyond Phoenix and probably isn’t the solution there either.
In theory, Carter can be cut and re-signed if both parties are interested but should they be? Maybe for a single year.
If Brooks returns and Nash has a couple more years in him in Phoenix, then the team is set at the point for as long as Nash stays at the top of his game. That would mean another contract with the Suns.
The answer just isn’t as clear at shooting guard.
Where’s the Low-Post Option?
With Stoudemire in New York, the Suns don’t have a dependable big man who can score with ease near the basket.
Gortat is the closest but he’s not going to give 20 every night (13 per game last season on an impressive 56.3% shooting)?
Rookie Morris is considered to be less-polished offensively but more defensive-minded than his brother Morris (who went to Houston with the 14th pick).
Frye can and will put up big numbers but almost exclusively from the outside. Warrick can dunk. Lopez remains a mystery.
Time to Rebuild
So with no prolific big man to get easy baskets with regularity, no shooting guard, a big man who would rather shoot threes and a bunch of swing men, the Suns work as well as they do because of Nash.
Without him, the Suns have no clear direction. With him, they’re riding a player who is nearing 40.
It’s time to start putting the building blocks in place for the future.
Assuming the lockout is resolved and Phoenix cuts Carter, the team isn’t expected to have any significant cap room.
Finding a way out of Childress would be Plan A but that’s going to be difficult given the $27 million he has left on his deal over the next four years.
Warrick doesn’t make a lot per season ($4.25 million) and has just two of his three years guaranteed.
Gortat and Dudley look like keepers and unless the team can find a true low post big man, the duo joined by Morris may suffice . . . but that’s only if the team can bolster the backcourt.
Unless Jason Richardson returns or the team keeps Carter on a cheaper dollar, the free agent choices this summer aren’t especially appealing.
J.R. Smith isn’t the answer. Jamal Crawford is probably looking for more than the Suns will have to spend.
Or Wait . . .
It may make sense to just tread water for a year with Nash and wait for the summer of 2012 when star players like Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Dwight Howard are expected to be free agents, the Suns could have a significant amount of spending power.
The Frye/Gortat combination might work inside if the Suns manage to land another superstar point guard and a solid two-guard.
If Nash, Carter, Pietrus, Brooks, Lopez and Hill are gone, the team could have about $30 million invested in a handful of players.
A free agency score may be the only way the Suns can get a quick jump on the rebuilding process.
Dealing Nash?
Another option might be dealing Nash before his contract expires. The Suns got calls this past summer but were asking for the world in return.
It may be hard to get high-level youth given Nash’s age but it’s certainly an avenue Phoenix should at least reasonably explore.
Nash is the draw for the home fans and the team, without the right return, may be a mess without him . . . but ultimately a post-Nash future is coming and the Suns need to be ready for it.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/solving-probl ... direction/
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:41 am
by lilfishi22

Really stuck between a rock and a hard place. We're not going to get a fair return whether we keep Nash or trade him, so better we trade him for something now than to let him walk out for nothing. Outside of Nash, Dudley and Gortat, no other players could get us anything "significant."
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:02 am
by nevetsov
Isn't hoopsworld the same site that had that moron 'reporter' just come out and say Grant Hill should join Miami? Yeah I don't put much stock into anything they report.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:08 am
by pidi
good question, i would keep him and keep our faces, let him play out his last contract year and restart after all is said and done. if u are going to trade him u won´t get the return, not even near the return the suns want - and another long term scrub is not needed. this team is lottery bound and we can trade a high pick in 2012 draft, so let´s do it this way.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 am
by JasonDaPsycho
Solution: Replace Sarver with better owner.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:14 am
by RunDogGun
JasonDaPsycho wrote:Solution: Replace Sarver with better owner.
Totally, maybe we can get an owner like Seattle did.

Make things start to happen, and then move the team to another city.
Speaking of Seattle, I will be there Sunday through Friday, to celebrate my birthday, and Hill's birthday (same day, but two years apart.) I'll be sure to ask them how they felt when they got their new owner.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Thu Oct 6, 2011 12:37 pm
by Rapsfan07
You guys have got to deal Nash. There's no other way. Maybe to a team like Orlando or something where you can get a 2013 pick (could be valuable if Howard leaves) and Nelson and maybe some other pieces but it just doesn't make sense to keep Nash. Owner would make money yes but the rebuild process would be long a brutal much like ours in T.O because we also failed to move Bosh. Thankfully, this 2012 draft looks to be the best one in years and you guys could walk away will a solid piece from it since y'all would definitely be lottery bound. The only player you should keep is maybe VC to a one year deal to hold the SG spot and look to draft a Austin RIvers or Brad Beal. Who knows...maybe then you could send Nelson to Indiana for their pick or something. The point here is something is better than nothing and since the rebuild is inevitable, you guys should move Nash.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Thu Oct 6, 2011 4:26 pm
by gaspar
Rapsfan07 wrote:You guys have got to deal Nash. There's no other way. Maybe to a team like Orlando or something where you can get a 2013 pick (could be valuable if Howard leaves) and Nelson and maybe some other pieces but it just doesn't make sense to keep Nash. Owner would make money yes but the rebuild process would be long a brutal much like ours in T.O because we also failed to move Bosh. Thankfully, this 2012 draft looks to be the best one in years and you guys could walk away will a solid piece from it since y'all would definitely be lottery bound. The only player you should keep is maybe VC to a one year deal to hold the SG spot and look to draft a Austin RIvers or Brad Beal. Who knows...maybe then you could send Nelson to Indiana for their pick or something. The point here is something is better than nothing and since the rebuild is inevitable, you guys should move Nash.
Yeah, the Suns should trade Nash for trash and keep VC. Seems a great plan!
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Thu Oct 6, 2011 5:01 pm
by NashtyNas
At this point, it's become seemingly evident that the Suns are absolutely screwed. Sarver isn't interested in spending money to compete, so there's no point of a 'retool.'
Frankly, I'm at the point (with the situation of the league and our franchise) where I think it will be absolutely best for us to start the rebuild NOW.
Trade Nash + Morris to Memphis for Mayo + Henry + Arthur
Trade Childress + Lopez + 2nd for JO + Bradley
Cut VC, let Hill walk re-sign Brooks for $12million/3years ($4mil flat a season)
Brooks/Bradley
Mayo/Henry
Dudley/Pietrus
Frye/Arthur
Gortat/JO
That team will be bad enough for a top-8 pick in the 2012 draft.
2012 Off season - Suns would have Brooks, Bradley, Henry, Dudley, Frye, Gortat, Lawal, Warrick all under contract for approximately $30million. That means with ~$54million cap, we will have $24million to spend on FA's. Mayo would have about a $10million cap hold (and we could re-sign him for about $7m/per, Gortat type contract). So make that around $17mil, which means we can grab a TOP big man prospect to play along side Gortat while having $17mil for a back-court mate for Mayo... say Paul or Williams.
Draft one of McAdoo, Davis, Sullinger and we're set.
Williams/Brooks
Mayo/Bradley
Dudley/Henry
Sullinger/Lawal
Gortat/Frye
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Thu Oct 6, 2011 5:31 pm
by MrMiyagi
sd1306 wrote:At this point, it's become seemingly evident that the Suns are absolutely screwed. Sarver isn't interested in spending money to compete, so there's no point of a 'retool.'
Frankly, I'm at the point (with the situation of the league and our franchise) where I think it will be absolutely best for us to start the rebuild NOW.
I agree, but sadly I doubt it'll happen. We need to start stockpiling draft picks though, get some more talented prospects. The way I see it, Gortat, Frye and Dudley are the only players worth keeping. They are all great complementary pieces that are going to play at this level or higher for the next few seasons. I have a feeling that Markieff won't be that good for us, but I hope I'm wrong. We need to get some backcourt players desperately. Wouldn't mind keeping Brooks as a bench player for a good price, but he shouldn't be our starting point guard. Lots of work for this team before we can become contenders.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Fri Oct 7, 2011 2:30 pm
by JohnVancouver
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 7:06 am
by Rapsfan07
gaspar wrote:Rapsfan07 wrote:You guys have got to deal Nash. There's no other way. Maybe to a team like Orlando or something where you can get a 2013 pick (could be valuable if Howard leaves) and Nelson and maybe some other pieces but it just doesn't make sense to keep Nash. Owner would make money yes but the rebuild process would be long a brutal much like ours in T.O because we also failed to move Bosh. Thankfully, this 2012 draft looks to be the best one in years and you guys could walk away will a solid piece from it since y'all would definitely be lottery bound. The only player you should keep is maybe VC to a one year deal to hold the SG spot and look to draft a Austin RIvers or Brad Beal. Who knows...maybe then you could send Nelson to Indiana for their pick or something. The point here is something is better than nothing and since the rebuild is inevitable, you guys should move Nash.
Yeah, the Suns should trade Nash for trash and keep VC. Seems a great plan!
Don't be ignorant.
I'm not saying trade Nash for trash but Nash would needed to be traded to a contender no? All perennial contenders are either slightly over the cap or way over the cap and because his salary is high, finding a team that has the ability to give you a good return could be difficult. That's all I'm saying. And what I meant about the VC thing is that you guys don't have any other SG so you should either not pick up his option or keep him until a replacement is found.
BTW a team like Indiana really could give you a good return, just that I don't know if it would make sense for Nash.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 7:48 am
by RunDogGun
Ok, just so you don't call me ignorant, but you are suggesting we keep VC and pay him $18 million just to fill the SG spot, right?

The fans can't trade Nash, and there is no team offering anything of value for him. If there is no season, we aren't going to have a choice what happens to him.
And the Raps got a large TPE and draft picks for Bosh leaving town. We'd be luckier to get that option, than to trade him for crap. The only teams we are going to get anything close to what we need, aren't going to be contenders.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 2:06 pm
by JohnVancouver
I think he said but Vince out and resign him cheap - or maybe that was another thread - but anyway, I'd like him gone. Leave him wrapped in a blanket on someone's doorstep .....
But as we've all bandied about, it may be worth it to someone to buy him out and knock the dough off their payroll. I keep thinking philly ...
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 4:07 pm
by Frank Lee
JohnVancouver wrote: I keep thinking philly ...
and I keep thinking Elton Brand
I'd ride Nash this yr and the next 2, if he'll stick around. Add EB, and he'd likely stay. Of course Hill signs on to join his fellow Dukie.
We'd be better too, elderly, but better. And I wouldn't be surprised with an over achieving run. The next draft is deep enough to get a good player in the late teens to early twenties, which is where I'd expect us to be given the above addition.
No need to suck-so-bad just to get a pick. Stay competitive. Add EB.... then may be a mid season adjustment with a Pietrus/Lopez/? deal. We arent as pitiful as what some outside bloggers portray.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:46 pm
by JohnVancouver
Still leaves us with Frye, Morris, Noc and Lawal at the four but nice problem to have.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3bu88fcTrade Brooks for an SG and we're OK, really. Or Brooks/Sideshow for someone good, sign SWilliams and roll
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:47 pm
by JohnVancouver
Still leaves us with Frye, Morris, Noc and Lawal at the four but nice problem to have.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3bu88fcTrade Brooks for an SG and we're OK, really. Or Brooks/Sideshow for someone good, sign SWilliams and roll
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ew7y9lAm I bored yet? Possibly
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:48 pm
by GrantHill
As long as Nash is here, I want Iguodala in any trade involving Philadelphia. Only Brand won't bring us anything in the future.
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Sun Oct 9, 2011 8:49 pm
by JohnVancouver
Still leaves us with Frye, Morris, Noc and Lawal at the four but nice problem to have.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3bu88fcTrade Brooks for an SG and we're OK, really. Or Brooks/Sideshow for someone good, sign SWilliams and roll
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ew7y9lAm I bored yet? Possibly
But not so bored as to not come up with this -
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3ew7y9lI'm a big fan of SYoung and Bill Walker
Re: Hoopsworld: Solving Problems- The Phoenix Suns
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:41 am
by DRK
I'll give this a go too. Been a while since I've done a "Re-Tool a Phoenix Suns"
Trade 1:
Phoenix In: Darrell Arthur, Sheldon Williams, Bill Walker, Toney Douglas
Phoenix Out: Aaron Brooks, Robin Lopez, Mickael Pietrus
Memphis In: Robin Lopez, Mickael Pietrus, Jared Jeffries
Memphis Out: Darrell Arthur, Haddadi, 2nd Rounder
Knicks In: Aaron Brooks, Hamed Haddadi, 2nd Round Pick (MEM)
Knicks Out: Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Sheldon Williams, Jared Jeffries
Phoenix adds a nice promising PF, who can redound the ball well and play good defence. They also add youth at the guards in Bill Walker, and Toney Douglas.
Memphis get a good backup center in Robin Lopez, and two great defenders in Jeffries and Pietrus. The combination of Battier, Pietrus, Allen, and Jeffries makes their defence elite off the bench. (Starting Allen)
The Knicks add Aaron Brooks, who is a proven starting point guard who averaged 20 and 6 in Houston. Would fit perfectly into D'Antoni's system. They also add a big body in Haddadi to man the paint.
Suns roster:
Gortat/ Frye/Williams
Arthur/Morris/Warrick(Amnestied?)/Lawal
Hill/Childress
Walker/Dudley
Nash/Douglas
Pretty young, and very athletic. A borderline playoff team, and we dont hurt our cap? Good shooting off the bench, with Morris AND Frye spreading the floor.