RealGM

The 2004-05 Phoenix Suns. Wow.

62 wins, the MVP, two other All-Stars, and playing the best basketball in the league.

You own the league for the next decade, is what you do.

Blame it on Sarver, blame it on whomever you like: the way the team was systematically disassembled was nothing short of sad.

The team in 2005 had a starting five of Nash, Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudamire.

To begin with, the most sensible move would have been not to lowball Johnson in free agency. He was a potential All-Star (and we know he did become one), and could have taken over as point guard for Nash at any time. Resign him.

Then: the idiotic move of swapping the no. 7 pick in the 2004 draft for the no. 21 pick in the 2005 draft and cash to Chicago. Take Andre Igoudala with that pick, a superior defensive player and someone who would have thrived as a swingman with Nash.

Then, take Rajon Rondo with the no. 21 pick in the 2006 draft instead of trading it to Boston for, wait for it, wait for it, cash. You have Nash's back-up right there.

Then, don't trade the rights to Rudy Fernandez for, wait for it, wait for it, cash.

Look at this team right now.

Guards: Nash, Fernandez, Rondo, Barbosa
Swingmen: Iggy, Johnson, Q-Rich, Bell
Post: Marion, Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas

An absolutely stacked team from top to bottom. It may be a bit lacking in size, so why not make a few creative moves to create what might be the greatest team in NBA history?

To begin with, this was the summer that KG left Minnesota. Now we know he wanted to go to Phoenix, he said so himself.

How does Iggy and Marion for Garnett sound? It's the best possible deal for Minny, possibly the best forward in the NBA (20-10 for the last three seasons), and one of the best defenders in the league. Meanwhile, when you put Stoudamire and Garnett in the same front court, you can tell Stoudamire: play offense, offense, offense, and Garnett: play defense, defense, defense.

Then, sign Grant Hill like you did. Still stacked at the swing spots.

Now, go all in to make your team invincible. Remember Kobe wanting to leave LA? Phoenix was giving them the best possible deal: Barbosa and Marion straight up for Kobe. Of course we know how that ended, but still, imagine if the Lakers had been overwhelmed by a potential Suns offer. They wouldn't have had Marion to deal, but think Q-Rich, Barbosa and Johnson for Kobe and Radmanovic? The Lakers were panicking. Those three players would've been coming off fantastic seasons playing with Nash. It might've happened.

So.

PG-Nash
SG-Bryant
SF-Hill
PF-Garnett
C-Stoudamire

Bench: Radmanovic, Fernandez, Rondo, Thomas, and others.

Is that the best team in NBA history? Does that team go 82-0?

Even if the Kobe move is taking it too far, I think a Nash-Johnson-Bell-Garnett-Stoudamire line-up with their young players is more than good enough to win multiple titles.

Phoenix fans can now light themselves on fire.

I'd rather have Bell than Bryant. Bell was so enjoyable to watch in his prime. Don't you remember all these 3's, his defense and his clothesline against Kobe?

This has been beaten to a pulp way too many times.

1. The Suns were never at any point interested in Rajon Rondo. The Suns agreed to draft Rondo for the Celtics contingent upon the Celtics being willing to take Brian Grant's contract so he could retire. Being interested in a player and drafting him for someone else--two completely different things.

2. It is not uncommon for a top-tier team to avoid the first round of the draft. Great teams want to polish the roster, not fill it out with guaranteed rookie contracts.

3. You're forgetting one major thing here--It's not like the Suns didn't have the talent or chemistry to win a championship. The Nash-era Suns are a story of NBA hearbreak, and simply couldn't get a ball to bounce their way or avoid the injury/suspension bug. Like it or not, luck/chance plays a role in winning the title.

4. The Suns have made questionable decisions, but whining about the draft and Rajon Rondo isn't really a legitimate argument considering the circumstances. Joe Johnson is a legitimate gripe, Terry Porter is a legitimate gripe, Sarver's general point of view is a legitimate gripe. Replacing Amar'e with Hakim Warrick is a legitimate gripe--Hell, refusing to make an offer to Lou Amundson is a legitimate gripe. I'm sick of hearing about Rajon Rondo and the freaking draft.

Also: You might want Kobe Bryant on the Suns, but I wouldn't.

Signing Q-Rich was the biggest mistake ever.

Because they wanted to sign him they gave up the #7 pick for a future Chicago pick so they could overpay QRich.

In the end they traded QRich and picks for Kurt Thomas who they ultimately traded for nothing with another 2 picks.

Basically signing QRich ended up costing them 5 or 6 first round picks and because of Q-Rich they probably did not re-sign Joe Johnson early.

Quentin Richardson was the worst free agent signing in the history of the Suns and that means a lot when they signed Penny Hardaway and Tom Gugliotta to big deals.

Besides the OP is wrong. The Suns had the #7 pick in the offseason when they signed Nash not after they won 62 games.
The Suns also never had Q and KT on the roster as they were traded for each other.

Obviously the Suns should have drafted Iguodala at #7 instead of signing Q. They should have then used the money to extend JJ and trade Marion for a center such as Camby who was FA that year as well or Chandler etc...


Camby
Amare
Iguodala
Johnson
Nash
6th Barbosa

Could have been..

Also Kobe wanting to leave LA was talked about the year before Nash signed with the Suns and the Suns were a potential destination to sign Kobe instead of Nash. There were never any legit rumors of Kobe coming to play with Nash.

GrantHill wrote:I'd rather have Bell than Bryant. Bell was so enjoyable to watch in his prime. Don't you remember all these 3's, his defense and his clothesline against Kobe?

He was terribly overrated. He could not get to the rim at all. He wasnt even that good defensively.

He was feisty and could make open 3s that was all.

MarJJMar wrote:

GrantHill wrote:I'd rather have Bell than Bryant. Bell was so enjoyable to watch in his prime. Don't you remember all these 3's, his defense and his clothesline against Kobe?

He was terribly overrated. He could not get to the rim at all. He wasnt even that good defensively.

He was feisty and could make open 3s that was all.

2006 Raja Bell was not overrated. He turned the tide of the Lakers playoff series with his clothesline and hit a massive three against the Clippers the very next series. I don't know why you're talking about getting to the rim, that's not what he was here for.

Hindsight! Plus we could not have had Bell if we didn't make room for him financially. I was fine with Bell when we let him play within the system. I think we spent too much time during games trying to get him started, when he really played his best offense, after he played well on defense.

Stat in the middle was terrible. It meant we had zero anchor on defense, and was routinely abused down low. It also meant that Nash would have to go under the screen, because he knew there was nothing backing him up. I really liked KT, but we rarely used him for the reason we got him. We got him so Stat could have someone to play the defense he couldn't/ wouldn't. We used KT best the year stat went down, which oddly enough is when we had the best defensive squad, and went from a team that was supposed to miss the playoffs, to two games from the finals. Diaw shined that year, and if we didn't have him but had JJ, we would have never been even close to that ending. There is no way JJ could have played all of the positions Diaw did. But because we felt that we blew the JJ deal, we over spent on Diaw, without seeing if both he and Stat could coexist.

Trading draft picks like they were free toasters was moronic, even if we were trying to avoid drafts. Whether we had the chance to get Rondo doesn't really matter, because if he didn't get all that playing time on that terrible Boston team, he might not have been the player he is now. On the Suns, he would have played maybe 10 minutes. We already had LB. But to say we needed to get rid of Grant's $1.9 million contract and avoid a guaranteed rookie contract in Rondo/whoever, isn't telling the whole story either. With that savings, we turned around and rushed for Pike at $1.2 million for two years ( and he couldn't even get off the bench on CHI), and then spent on Banks at $3+ million/year for too long. In the end, we spent more than we saved, for two guys we rarely played. We should have never had D'Antoni be GM, he royally sucked.

I'll have to agree that there was no way the Suns could have foreseen the injury/crock of poop they would have to deal with, and looking back for a change, I would have rather skipped those issues, than getting/getting rid of anyone.

No need to wonder about any of this. The team in 2005-06, as constructed but healthy, would have won a championship.

Kurt Thomas had us in the top 10 of defensive % before he went down.

MarJJMar wrote:

GrantHill wrote:I'd rather have Bell than Bryant. Bell was so enjoyable to watch in his prime. Don't you remember all these 3's, his defense and his clothesline against Kobe?

He was terribly overrated. He could not get to the rim at all. He wasnt even that good defensively.

He was feisty and could make open 3s that was all.

You cannot be a Suns fan and not love Raja .... sorry

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a more ridiculous post.

You don't really think that any of that possible do you?

ardee wrote:The 2004-05 Phoenix Suns. Wow.

62 wins, the MVP, two other All-Stars, and playing the best basketball in the league.

You own the league for the next decade, is what you do.

Blame it on Sarver, blame it on whomever you like: the way the team was systematically disassembled was nothing short of sad.

The team in 2005 had a starting five of Nash, Johnson, Richardson, Marion and Stoudamire.

To begin with, the most sensible move would have been not to lowball Johnson in free agency. He was a potential All-Star (and we know he did become one), and could have taken over as point guard for Nash at any time. Resign him.

Then: the idiotic move of swapping the no. 7 pick in the 2004 draft for the no. 21 pick in the 2005 draft and cash to Chicago. Take Andre Igoudala with that pick, a superior defensive player and someone who would have thrived as a swingman with Nash.

Then, take Rajon Rondo with the no. 21 pick in the 2006 draft instead of trading it to Boston for, wait for it, wait for it, cash. You have Nash's back-up right there.

Then, don't trade the rights to Rudy Fernandez for, wait for it, wait for it, cash.

Look at this team right now.

Guards: Nash, Fernandez, Rondo, Barbosa
Swingmen: Iggy, Johnson, Q-Rich, Bell
Post: Marion, Stoudamire, Kurt Thomas

An absolutely stacked team from top to bottom. It may be a bit lacking in size, so why not make a few creative moves to create what might be the greatest team in NBA history?

To begin with, this was the summer that KG left Minnesota. Now we know he wanted to go to Phoenix, he said so himself.

How does Iggy and Marion for Garnett sound? It's the best possible deal for Minny, possibly the best forward in the NBA (20-10 for the last three seasons), and one of the best defenders in the league. Meanwhile, when you put Stoudamire and Garnett in the same front court, you can tell Stoudamire: play offense, offense, offense, and Garnett: play defense, defense, defense.

Then, sign Grant Hill like you did. Still stacked at the swing spots.

Now, go all in to make your team invincible. Remember Kobe wanting to leave LA? Phoenix was giving them the best possible deal: Barbosa and Marion straight up for Kobe. Of course we know how that ended, but still, imagine if the Lakers had been overwhelmed by a potential Suns offer. They wouldn't have had Marion to deal, but think Q-Rich, Barbosa and Johnson for Kobe and Radmanovic? The Lakers were panicking. Those three players would've been coming off fantastic seasons playing with Nash. It might've happened.

So.

PG-Nash
SG-Bryant
SF-Hill
PF-Garnett
C-Stoudamire

Bench: Radmanovic, Fernandez, Rondo, Thomas, and others.

Is that the best team in NBA history? Does that team go 82-0?

Even if the Kobe move is taking it too far, I think a Nash-Johnson-Bell-Garnett-Stoudamire line-up with their young players is more than good enough to win multiple titles.

Phoenix fans can now light themselves on fire.

It shows you know a lot about how the league works.

I'd love to have to seen

Nash / Rondo / Barbosa
Iggy / Bell / Barbosa
Marion / Hill / Jajo
Amare / Frye
Gortat / Kurt

Now THAT team wins a title...depth, 3pt shooting, experience, finishing, a great defensive unit of Rondo/Bell/Iggy/Kurt/Gortat...Sigh...obviously could never have happened, but still...Left Joe out for $$ reasons, Diaw as well

this thread is making me cry lol

Actually that team COULD have happened. Forgot we drafted Gortat, and we could have kept Kurt because Joe/Diaw's crazy contracts wouldn't have been there, and Iggy/Rondo/Gortat/Frye would have been on rookie deals and Bell/Barbosa/Hill/Jajo on bargain deals

Where's that razor blade...

Who ever said signing QRICH was a dumb move is crazy. With Nash, QRich was killin for us. He's been one of our best 3 point shooters ever for the Suns. We wouldn't have won as many games without him. He hit many clutch shots.. who remembers vs the Lakers? One of the best comeback Suns game I've seen.

Q-Rich is the dumbest move in the history of the Suns.

He is the sole reason we got rid off the #7 pick and did not draft Iguodala. He is the reason we did not have the money to spare to extend Joe Johnson early. We also had to get rid of him and picks to get Kurt Thomas and even more picks to get rid off Thomas.

The #7 pick would have been a much better player than Q anyway. Plus we would have saved a lot of money.

Hah ok, I'll play the hindsight game. That skin on my wrists is purely supplementary anyway

Nash, JJ, Q, Marion, Amare, Steven Hunter, LB, Jim Jackson, Walter McCarty, Bo Outlaw

- just pay JJ the damn 5/$65m he wants and be done with it
- do the Q for KT trade
- do sign Raja, House
- match Hunter's offer sheet
- offer Barbosa for Diaw (they need a SG and Leandro was coming off a good season)
- Amare microfracture
- Keep Marion with an eye to trade if Amare recovers
- do sign TT midseason

Nash, JJ, Marion, Diaw, KT
House, Bell, TT, Hunter

- let House and TT walk
- keep Diaw unextended until you see how he handles playing with Amare
- trade Marion for a competent young backup PG and either a SF or lotto pick

Nash, Bell, JJ, Amare, KT
PG, SF, Diaw, Hunter

- trade Diaw and a pick at the deadline for a guy like Iggy

Nash, JJ, Iggy, Amare, KT
PG, Bell, SF, Hunter

Goodnight league..

The hindsight game is fun and depressing. Yes, reality stinks looking at our GM/coach situations who did not want certain players. But I think you have to start with that offseason in 04. The suns were set up to be a playoff contender with the cap space, young talent and picks going forward. But we all know how that was messed up via GMs/coaches and bad moves.

Instead of going over all of this in this thread and explaining every move, I will make it easy. This would be the team of my choice at this point.

2011-12 roster

PG. Nash Curry
SG. JJ Fernandez
SF. Hill Dudley
PF. Smith Frye
C. KG Gortat

Realistically, the sounds of Brandon Roy becoming available via the amnesty clause, I think the suns should take a shot at him.......especially if you plan on resigning Hill and keeping nash. Then you trade Pietrus for Bayless to get your backup and future PG.

PG. Nash Bayless
SG. Roy Childress
SF. Hill Dudley
PF. Frye Morris
C . Gortat Lopez

I would like to get a younger, more athletic big at Center, and a better shooter as a backup SG.