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Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without him.
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:02 pm
by rsavaj
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2011/ ... ithout-himGreat article you guys should read in full.
...The more time that passed without basketball, the more objective I feel I can be with this Phoenix Suns team. Without major change, this Suns franchise is hovering in the 30-win (in the event of an inevitable Steve Nash injury) to 40-45 win territory (even if he is "healthy") for the next couple of years. And then after that, if the front office doesn't perfectly plan the transition to the inevitable post-Nash era, we could be looking at 10-15 of years of rebuilding (eye-opening Scott Howard article) while becoming a lottery staple amongst the Clippers, Twolves, Warriors, Pistons, Kings and so many others.
Even in the near term with Nash, the likely 30-45 wins a year is the WORST place to be in the NBA. You don't get a star draft pick (yet another eye-opening Scott Howard article) and you don't make the playoffs. You just exist in limbo, signing mid-level free agents and drafting mid-level college players in hopes of getting lucky.
The Suns need young, healthy superstars around whom they can build a new winner into the future. Yet, a slow fade by Nash keeps you shopping in the dollar store...
So guys....what do we do? Nash pulls this roster to about 40-45 wins because he's still incredible, but that's maybe good enough to contend for the 8 seed, and not bad enough to get the superstar through the draft that we so desperately need.
I never thought I would say this, but I think that with the quality of the upcoming draft....this might be the year we trade Nash.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:37 pm
by GrantHill
Trade Steve Nash and Josh Childress to the New York Knicks for SG Landry Fields, PG Chauncey Billups, combo G Toney Douglas and the rights to rookie PG Iman Shumpert. Really, there's nothing else on that team worth having that NY would give up for Nash.
This is excatly the trade I've mentionend before. This is really the only Nash-trade I would like.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:08 pm
by Deafjam57
I still believe that vince carter will be pivotal in our rebuilding stage. Trade him to a lotto team for a bad contract and a pick, like, off the top of my head, Rashard Lewis on the Wizards. Survive having him on our team and get a nice top 12 pick in this stacked draft. That would give us some major security in this turbulent time for our Suns.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:10 pm
by rsavaj
Deafjam57 wrote:I still believe that vince carter will be pivotal in our rebuilding stage. Trade him to a lotto team for a bad contract and a pick, like, off the top of my head, Rashard Lewis on the Wizards. Survive having him on our team and get a nice top 12 pick in this stacked draft. That would give us some major security in this turbulent time for our Suns.
Nobody will take Rashard's contract, especially not Sarver. Bob's plan is to keep the payroll low in preparation for the 2012 offseason(or at least that's what they tell us....)
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:25 pm
by JohnVancouver
I don't see how 1 yr of Billuyps, and Shumpert and Douglas is gong to help us . Knicks have no picks to give either
If Nash goes I'd love to see him in NY but there's just no real deal to make
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:31 pm
by rsavaj
JohnVancouver wrote:I don't see how 1 yr of Billuyps, and Shumpert and Douglas is gong to help us . Knicks have no picks to give either
If Nash goes I'd love to see him in NY but there's just no real deal to make
I guess the idea is that it garners two more young assets with upside(Shumpert/Douglas) and cuts a lot of payroll for 2012 FA, enough so that we could potentially land a max FA(Deron, Paul, Howard).
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:00 pm
by BurningHeart
Rashard Lewis will be amnestied. Obviously.
Why would he be brought up in trade scenarios, lol.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:47 pm
by Kerrsed
Blow.
It.
Up!
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:41 pm
by #1 pick
We need Nash in Atlanta more than New York needs him. But anywho, I don't see Nash getting traded.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:52 pm
by Kerrsed
#1 pick wrote:We need Nash in Atlanta more than New York needs him.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:41 am
by JohnVancouver
rsavaj wrote:JohnVancouver wrote:I don't see how 1 yr of Billuyps, and Shumpert and Douglas is gong to help us . Knicks have no picks to give either
If Nash goes I'd love to see him in NY but there's just no real deal to make
I guess the idea is that it garners two more young assets with upside(Shumpert/Douglas) and cuts a lot of payroll for 2012 FA, enough so that we could potentially land a max FA(Deron, Paul, Howard).
yeah, I see that - if I think more on it, I could live with that but I would rather it were our last resort. There must be some way to do better, I hope. Even a deal geting mayo ... or TWilliams
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:52 am
by rsavaj
Kerrsed wrote:#1 pick wrote:We need Nash in Atlanta more than New York needs him.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:00 am
by Qwigglez
The only place I'd rather see Nash play is in New York. I'd love to see Nash-Amare PnR's again.
Looking back, I think the trade of Goran Dragic for Aaron Brooks was made to make trading Nash easier. I couldn't see Dragic ever being a quality starter, but Brooks can definitely be. I don't see any top tier free agent ever coming to Phoenix, especially by themselves. Dwight and CP3/DWill will find a team together, most likely the Nets. CP3 will probably end up in New York with Melo and Amare.
For 2012, the Suns free agency targets will have to be second tier guys: OJ Mayo & Michael Beasley (both RFA's). With Beasley & Derrick Williams fighting over minutes, I can't see the Wolves matching any offers. The Grizzlies will probably try to trade Mayo before the season ends (maybe before the season starts), if this happens, the team that ends up with Mayo will match any offer. Russell Westbrook is staying in OKC, unless him and Durant aren't getting along, but I don't see the Thunder parting with Westbrook.
Bleh. If we trade Nash we're risking a lot betting into the free agency market and draft. Either way, I'm rooting for the Suns and Knicks this year.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:14 am
by Kerrsed
Qwigglez wrote:The only place I'd rather see Nash play is in New York. I'd love to see Nash-Amare PnR's again.
Looking back, I think the trade of Goran Dragic for Aaron Brooks was made to make trading Nash easier. I couldn't see Dragic ever being a quality starter, but Brooks can definitely be. I don't see any top tier free agent ever coming to Phoenix, especially by themselves. Dwight and CP3/DWill will find a team together, most likely the Nets. CP3 will probably end up in New York with Melo and Amare.
For 2012, the Suns free agency targets will have to be second tier guys: OJ Mayo & Michael Beasley (both RFA's). With Beasley & Derrick Williams fighting over minutes, I can't see the Wolves matching any offers. The Grizzlies will probably try to trade Mayo before the season ends (maybe before the season starts), if this happens, the team that ends up with Mayo will match any offer. Russell Westbrook is staying in OKC, unless him and Durant aren't getting along, but I don't see the Thunder parting with Westbrook.
Bleh. If we trade Nash we're risking a lot betting into the free agency market and draft. Either way, I'm rooting for the Suns and Knicks this year.
Quality post. I agree with 99.9% of it.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:54 am
by Nando88
i'm 98.9% positive that the knicks drafted Shumpert in order to grab Nash
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:31 am
by Qwigglez
On a side note. Imagine the Knicks if they signed J-Rich and Grant Hill.
Nash-JRich-Melo-Amare-Turiaf with Hill and Childress. There goes Mike DA's seven man rotation, who needs defense, lol.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:55 am
by thamadkant
I and others have mentioned this months ago. With Nash and mediocre signings the suns are still outside looking in yet. Not low enough to nab a high lottery pick. So they end up stock piling role players for draftees. This coming draft get inside the top ten Picks and you have a semi star slash franchise player in the making none of this get lucky with a role player.
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:30 am
by MarJJMar
1. Steve Nash for Kirk Hinrich(exp), Atlanta 2012 pick, Atlanta 2014 pick
2. Steve Nash for Jameer Nelson (2yrs), Orlando 2012 pick, Orlando 2014 pick
3. Steve Nash, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick for Billups(exp) and Turiaf(exp)
4. Steve Nash, Marcin Gortat, Childress for Rajon Rondo(4yrs), Rasheed Wallace(exp), Jermaine O'Neal(exp)
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:23 am
by Qwigglez
Suns get-
Josh Smith
Iman Shumpert
Knicks get-
Steve Nash
Markieff Morris
Hawks get-
Chauncy Billups
Robin Lopez
Re: Steve Nash holds the key to our future: with or without
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:53 am
by nevetsov
Could have taken Schumpert with our pick in place of Morris. Sure, the Brooks fiasco have made the need for a backup PG more pressing, but trading our starter makes that moot.
So it essentially becomes Nash for Smith, and you ideally would want those 2 together, not exchanged.
Maybe we could include Hinrich as an expiring stopgap, for the rights to Brooks (ATL has one year of Teague learning from Billups and then Brooks replaces Billups next year), Warrick and Lopez.
Hinrich, Schumpert
Dudley, Pietrus
Childress, Pietrus
Horford, Frye
Gortat, Lawal