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The Suns should trade Steve Nash and start building for the future. Where is the upside with this team? Is Steve Nash going to get better over the next 2-3 years? What about Grant Hill? All the talk from the team was to free up salary for the 2012 Free Agents. Who will still be available? Chris Paul is gone and likely Howard and D. Will will also be tied up by then. A few years ago Seattle loaded up on draft picks which resulted in an impressive OKC team: Ibaka, Harden, Westbrook, and Durant (young talented players). Years ago the Suns traded their best player (Larry Nance) for a young point guard named Kevin Johnson and a draft pick which they used on Dan Majerle. They now need to do the same: load up on draft picks and young talent. Finishing 10th in the West does nothing for us, strip it down and get a better pick to start the reconstruction.

Besides, Nash deserves a shot at a title with someone. Lakers are in desperate need of a PG.

you've pretty much created a thread about a subject thats been discussed and debated a million times in the last few months here....


but I'll play along..

Suns should definitely trade Nash to hasten their rebuild.

I would only keep Nash if he will accept a cheap contract and if the Suns can get another couple of All-Stars to make another run for the ring... but the Suns winning the No.1 pick has a greater chance of happening so, this is pretty much hopes and dreams....




Suns are fighting with Jazz as 10th/11th seed in the west..... this is definitely a NO GO Zone for a team that doesnt have a young core that is still developing... for teams with a couple of young stars and relatively young group.... finishing 12th, 11th, 10th is fine because its "development" time for them and can only rise in the ladder.... Suns are ensuring they will be mediocre for an additional 3-4 years by taking the slow method of rebuilding.... and again the other side of the fans who want to remain competitive has a reason also... which is they dont want to develop a losing culture... well finishing 10th/11th or best case 8th spot aspiration to me is also advocating a semi-losing culture by accepting mediocrity and "bare minimum" as acceptable...

of course also the draft isnt guaranteed.... well understood... but its a start, and its the MAIN entry point of young talent to the NBA.... in short, its a good way to accumulate young talent....

And HELL NO to a Lakers trade....

I actually want to cheer Nash on.... not hope he gets injured or something..

If Suns trade Nash, they become irrelevant franchise for the next few years and that's a fact. (Irrelevant as Bobcats, Raptors etc). If Suns keep Nash, then the rebuild process will become far less painful. Our picks might worth less, but who cares... It all comes to luck in the end (lottery, busts etc). Gortat and Millsap were late 2nd round picks but that didn't stop them from becoming great. Amar'e was barely a Top 10 pick, and today, he is an All-Star. So, why not keep Nash (Suns will still be fun watch), get him a nice young PG prospect (Marshall... or just keep Brooks), and let Nash work with him getting us a nice young PG to rebuild around. Nash would still have his 30 minutes per game for the next two years, his contract won't slow down rebuilding (even if it stays at around 10mil, which probably won't). With remaining cap space, we could sign some great prospects in FA (Batum, Mayo etc). This way, we're still fan to watch, rebuilding goes as planned, and eventual Nash retirement won't hit us that hard. Suns are 4th winning franchise and it has to stay that way! Don't get me wrong, but if someone offered me an option of 10 years being Wizards, and in 11th we get the title, and the option where we're consistent playoff team (WCF, WCSF etc) without winning the title, i would choose the latter one. It's not all in titles, there is something in watching a fun and quality basketball, and cheering for your team on a consistent basis. Of course, this doesn't mean i wouldn't like Suns to win a title, just don't want them to win it for a price too high.

P.S. This is all under assumption that Nash wants to stay, and not go to a contender.

suns91fan wrote:If Suns trade Nash, they become irrelevant franchise for the next few years and that's a fact. (Irrelevant as Bobcats, Raptors etc). If Suns keep Nash, then the rebuild process will become far less painful. Our picks might worth less, but who cares... It all comes to luck in the end (lottery, busts etc). Gortat and Millsap were late 2nd round picks but that didn't stop them from becoming great. Amar'e was barely a Top 10 pick, and today, he is an All-Star. So, why not keep Nash (Suns will still be fun watch), get him a nice young PG prospect (Marshall... or just keep Brooks), and let Nash work with him getting us a nice young PG to rebuild around. Nash would still have his 30 minutes per game for the next two years, his contract won't slow down rebuilding (even if it stays at around 10mil, which probably won't). With remaining cap space, we could sign some great prospects in FA (Batum, Mayo etc). This way, we're still fan to watch, rebuilding goes as planned, and eventual Nash retirement won't hit us that hard. Suns are 4th winning franchise and it has to stay that way! Don't get me wrong, but if someone offered me an option of 10 years being Wizards, and in 11th we get the title, and the option where we're consistent playoff team (WCF, WCSF etc) without winning the title, i would choose the latter one. It's not all in titles, there is something in watching a fun and quality basketball, and cheering for your team on a consistent basis. Of course, this doesn't mean i wouldn't like Suns to win a title, just don't want them to win it for a price too high.

P.S. This is all under assumption that Nash wants to stay, and not go to a contender.

From where I'm from, Championship matters most...

Being second best or playoff team might give fans hope for that particular season and may be entertaining as well, but a championship is remembered forever....

One of my sporting great wishes and hopes is to see the Suns hoist a championship trophy in the NBA..... for me, I'd trade in a multiple playoff appearances for a 1 time championship..... when you see that banner up in the stadium ceiling and remembering you witnessed that team win that ring/banner..... the feeling is 100x far greater than just seeing the team compete just in the playoffs.... I thought '93 was the year.... but thanks to MJ and Paxson Suns were denied....

I don't think we need to trade Nash to rebuild, but we should definitely add draft picks. We just need to trim the fat around here (Telfair, Frye, Warrick, Childress, Lopez), and add young talent via trade or draft picks.

This is probably the most discussed and well-covered topics, if not amongst the entire fanbase, then definitely on this board. We do have an entire thread dedicated to this topic as well. Just sayin'.

In regards to this topic, I've made my views quite clear, trading Steve Nash is the first step to our future. Not because I *want* us to suck while rebuilding, it's because of what Nash represents and his effect on how this team is built. To this front office, Nash is a still shining but fading light. As long as he's around we'll be relatively competitive and we'll be relatively exciting. That's all good and nice for the casual fan who just wants a bit of excitement and some R&G. But for diehard fans, this is a dilemma that was a long time coming.

Suns fans, we have to get over Nash. He's still amazing and still playing at a high level, but he represents the old SSOL Run&Gun era where as long as you got legs that can run and can hit your shots, you can make the roster. We've built this team (even up til now) based on the assumption that even if you have no offensive skills, as long as Nash is around, you can make an NBA roster and be successful. That era has to end if we want to ever get somewhere soon. We need to start rebuilding with players that can hold their own without Nash, even if they don't play well with Nash.

My argument is that, as long as Nash is around, our FO will keep signing or trading for guys that will only play to their salary level if they play with Nash. Instead of taking chances on a young player with potential to be their own man without Nash, we've brought in Redd, Brown, Warrick and Childress, all guys who we had hoped would play to their potential with Nash (heck, we were even working out Michael Finley, whether or not he was seriously considered, it's the message we're sending).

1UPZ wrote:Suns are fighting with Jazz as 10th/11th seed in the west..... this is definitely a NO GO Zone for a team that doesnt have a young core that is still developing... for teams with a couple of young stars and relatively young group.... finishing 12th, 11th, 10th is fine because its "development" time for them and can only rise in the ladder.... Suns are ensuring they will be mediocre for an additional 3-4 years by taking the slow method of rebuilding.... and again the other side of the fans who want to remain competitive has a reason also... which is they dont want to develop a losing culture... well finishing 10th/11th or best case 8th spot aspiration to me is also advocating a semi-losing culture by accepting mediocrity and "bare minimum" as acceptable...
of course also the draft isnt guaranteed.... well understood... but its a start, and its the MAIN entry point of young talent to the NBA.... in short, its a good way to accumulate young talent....

Agree 110%. Could not have said it better myself.

Agree with the above

Yawn....

Trade NAsh because he makes us better. That is essentially what you are saying.

Look across the league and determine who needs a PG of his caliber, AND is willing to give up youth and picks, along with expirings...... for a half season rental.

Conceptually there may be merit in trading him. But realistically, the market for him is very small, and the return is very limited. Do any of you acknowledge that ? Nash's trade value peaked 2 yrs ago. You are not getting a lotto pick for him.

Furthermore, the basis of the 'Trade Nash' stance is with him we will be mediocre. I have news for you... Nash does not make us mediocre.... Childress, Warrick, LOWpez, Price, Telfair, Redd, Brown, and to some degree Frye make us mediocre.

Beside Nash, theGORTAT, Dudley, and Hill about the only players worth their salt. Young Morris gets a pass. Fortunately, we will be discarding at least 5 of the poor players mentioned.... and may be even Nash if he wants out.

As frank said... Suns have limited trading partners and partners that arent very willing to give up value.

The Suns have left it too late to really maximize Nash's trade value.... at this point as pointed out, half a season rental for Nash.... only a handful of teams, playoff teams mind you, will want him... and those teams are not (a) Going to gut their talent (b) have late picks (c) both of a and b....

The chances of Nash being extended and him walking out completely clean.... is becomming a 50/50 scenario....

The latter is bad for the Suns... the former HIGHLY HIGHLY dependent on where talent will frock too.... and with all these things going on, 99% chance that most of the required talent will NOT frock to the Suns.

Yeah, some of the threads have fallen down a bit but there are plenty on Nash. Since this one has generated some discussion we'll leave it here for now, but if any more Nash clutter goes on I may get merge-happy

FWIW, I'm finally sort of leaning towards trading Nash. I just can't piece together a good big-picture strategy in my mind that accommodates him. BUT as others have said, we wouldn't get anywhere near full value for him, if we could find an acceptable trade at all. The trade partner would have to be a team that would have a legit shot at a title this year with Nash. And they'd have to have at least some sort of youth or picks to send back. And they couldn't be the Lakers. So yeah, pretty limited options here.

Trade him now to get out of a bad contract or try to get a decent pick back.

Saying we cant get anything for half a season of a Nash rental is naive. 2 time MVP one of the best shooters and point guards of our era.

Think of how we got raped on certain trades in the past years getting rid of picks we thought we didnt need. Or even worse the horrible deals we convinced Isiah Thomas to take from us earlier in the decade. It can be done.

The only team that would give us a high pick for Nash is TO - it would be a job-saver for Colangelo.

They send back a young 'un, not Demar, and their pick. Next year they have the Euro kid - Valanciunas? - and Nash, Barbs, Bargs, Ed Davis, JJ, cap room to tweak the pieces.

Nash and Chilly for Bayless, Jose and the pick. Jose expiring after this season. Mocve Lopez for a later pick and take a Wroten or other PG, bring him along under Jose so he's not throw to the wolves the first year.

Win/Win

JohnVancouver wrote:Nash and Chilly for Bayless, Jose and the pick. Jose expiring after this season. Mocve Lopez for a later pick and take a Wroten or other PG, bring him along under Jose so he's not throw to the wolves the first year.

Win/Win

Wrong. Jose expires after the 2012-2013 season. He is owed $10.5M next season.

Forget about trading Nash and all that bull. The real news here is that the Bobcats are going to waive Boris Diaw because he and Silas cant get along. Diaw wants to go the Knicks or come back to the Suns. Before you guys say he looks like a whale remember this guy is a versatile player and it better getting him rather than playing Telfair and Lopez

KLEON wrote:Forget about trading Nash and all that bull. The real news here is that the Bobcats are going to waive Boris Diaw because he and Silas cant get along. Diaw wants to go the Knicks or come back to the Suns. Before you guys say he looks like a whale remember this guy is a versatile player and it better getting him rather than playing Telfair and Lopez

Well, he doesnt play PG (telfair) or C (Lopez), so that statement is irrelevant. Bobcats are also looking at TRADING Diaw, not cutting him. They will not take on any contract that extends past this season.

The Los Angeles Lakers have a large enough trade exception ($8.9 million but the rules allow for $100k of flexibility) to acquire Diaw outright although he doesn’t fit their need either positionally (point guard) or age (Diaw is almost 30). In theory LA could line up two-straight moves, Diaw for the trade exception and then a second, separate deal – Diaw out to acquire Toronto Raptors point guard Jose Calderon who is also rumored to be available.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/diaw-as-trade-pawn

bobgosuns wrote:The Suns should trade Steve Nash and start building for the future. Where is the upside with this team? Is Steve Nash going to get better over the next 2-3 years? What about Grant Hill? All the talk from the team was to free up salary for the 2012 Free Agents.

Eric Gordon, Nicolas Batum, Wilson Chandler, Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, are some that come to mind...

A few years ago Seattle loaded up on draft picks which resulted in an impressive OKC team: Ibaka, Harden, Westbrook, and Durant (young talented players).

This is true, but there's more teams that unload 1 or 2 all-star players and up still sucking 4-5 years into the future, and have to "re-rebuild" once again. I can back that up with statistics if needed.

Besides, Nash deserves a shot at a title with someone. Lakers are in desperate need of a PG.

I 100% agree Nash deserves a shot to win a title with a team that is more likely to do so. He's free to request a trade, or move on to a different team this summer if the FO is unable to get him legitimate players (and that doesn't mean Dwight Howard or Deron, but it means better than Childress, Warrick, and Turkoglu) to compete with. It will be very sad to see him go, but there will be absolutely no hard feelings attached if that's his decision.

1UPZ wrote:I would only keep Nash if he will accept a cheap contract and if the Suns can get another couple of All-Stars to make another run for the ring... but the Suns winning the No.1 pick has a greater chance of happening so, this is pretty much hopes and dreams....

Let's expand your second sentence to match the the purpose behind your first sentence.

"but the Suns winning the No.1 pick with that No.1 pick being able to be a key piece in a legitimate contender team [...]"

I'm okay with re-explaining on how I obtained the very low percentages of top 10 picks that actually contribute to winning a title on the team that *drafted* them, if needed. Really, the chances are near the same as the "hopes and dreams" as all-star players coming to Phoenix next year and trying to make it deep in the playoffs.

Suns are fighting with Jazz as 10th/11th seed in the west..... this is definitely a NO GO Zone for a team that doesnt have a young core that is still developing... for teams with a couple of young stars and relatively young group....

Jared Dudley, Markieff Morris, Robin Lopez (lol j/k), maybe Aaron Brooks if we retain him, ummm, next year's draft pick, haven't reached their potential yet. No franchise player, maybe we'll get lucky in this draft (>implying luck doesn't have a significant factor on drafting good players) though. I agree overall though, not a good thing as a whole going forward. Going center or guard is a different story though.

Suns are ensuring they will be mediocre for an additional 3-4 years by taking the slow method of rebuilding....

Nash retiring with the Suns...still having a CHANCE to compete....the higher likelihood that we will suck for the next 5-10 years in the age of Durant, Dwight, Griffin, Lebron, and Rose irregardless of our roster.... at the cost of rebuilding slower is something that I'm personally okay and willing to be patient with.

and again the other side of the fans who want to remain competitive has a reason also... which is they dont want to develop a losing culture... well finishing 10th/11th or best case 8th spot aspiration to me is also advocating a semi-losing culture by accepting mediocrity and "bare minimum" as acceptable...

This isn't a valid argument. The whole "fostering a losing culture" spiel applies to team's that PURPOSELY lose (something I am vehemently against doing) for the sake of acquiring high draft picks. Trading star players for youth and/or developing the younger, less experienced players (in results probably more lost games) is not propagating a losing culture as long as their intentions are to play their hardest and aim to win every night, and is something I'm not opposed to at all.

Gortat and Millsap were late 2nd round picks but that didn't stop them from becoming great. Amar'e was barely a Top 10 pick, and today, he is an All-Star

This is a good point...we also drafted Marion at the 9th spot.

We drafted Gortat at 58 in 2006 was it? And Rajon Rondo at 21th or something. They are around the same value as Andrea Bargani and Lemarcus Aldridge (#1 and #2) and certainly better than Adam Morrisson (#3, not even in the league) , Shelden (#5, still in the league? who knows and who really cares).

"for me, I'd trade in a multiple playoff appearances for a 1 time championship..... when you see that banner up in the stadium ceiling and remembering you witnessed that team win that ring/banner..... the feeling is 100x far greater than just seeing the team compete just in the playoffs...."

Looking at the past through a all-or-nothing telescope is not being fair. I think I know what you mean, but it's not as simple as just "sacrificing" what happened in order to win a championship.
You can judge by overall success in hindsight, but all that you can give a team in the present is a CHANCE to compete and succeed. Also, a championship is a championship. But seeing Nash win a ring with Phoenix is probably 100x more gratifying then seeing a douchebag like Lebron win a championship with the Suns (occurring somewhere in the 3000th dimension of the universe), but how would I know?

Kerrsed wrote:Well, he doesnt play PG (telfair) or C (Lopez), so that statement is irrelevant.

That's only irrelevant if you think Diaw wouldn't serve as a better point guard than telfair or center than lopez. Diaw had played both (and every) position for the suns.

KLEON wrote:Forget about trading Nash and all that bull. The real news here is that the Bobcats are going to waive Boris Diaw because he and Silas cant get along. Diaw wants to go the Knicks or come back to the Suns. Before you guys say he looks like a whale remember this guy is a versatile player and it better getting him rather than playing Telfair and Lopez

Are you kidding me? We were annoyed at a fat and unmotivated Diaw when we were a championship calibre team, what makes you think we want a fatter and likely just as unmotivated Diaw on a mediocre team?

We don't need anymore has-beens in need of Nash's rejuvenation services! We need young guys with untapped potential.

Frank Lee wrote:Trade NAsh because he makes us better. That is essentially what you are saying.

Trading Nash makes us better than him walking. If he signs the 2 year extension the Suns are offering before the deadline then we'll all stop talking about it.