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http://hoopshype.com/columns/rosen/stou ... uperfluous

Great article about Amare's role on the knicks. NOW the Suns look great not extending his contract.

1. Sorry but not a good article at all. Terrible actually.
Knicks is probably the one East team I've seen a lot of and even liked slightly... Charles Rosen sounded like he only had a two week memory.

2. Tony Douglas was a chucker who couldn't score... Yet he got praised...
Shumpert was grasping as a PG.... But recovered a lot when moved as a SG.
Melo as a PF against small teams might work but not against legit bigs who will score on him down low at 60% rate.

3. Stat was a 26ppg 8rpg before Melo came in. I don't deny Stat has regressed but Melo us a huge factor why Stat is playing a role he isn't good at.
And yes the only thing the article got right is Stats huge untradable contract.

Amare was a beast last year. His stats changed dramatically when Melo got there, they are both ball dominant. If I were the Knicks, I'd amnesty Amare and go after Garnett and Allen over the offseason.
Now if that were to happen, would I want the Suns to sign Amare? Quite possibly, for the right price, and with another insurance clause. Sign Amare and Beasley, keep Nash/Hill/Brown/Redd, amnesty Childress.
Nash/Brown/Beasley/Amare/Gortat
Telfair/Dudley/Hill/Morris/Frye +Redd/Warrick
Super athletic starting lineup (minus Nash). Throw lobs all day! High energy/high IQ bench (minus Telfair). Drop threes all day!
Alright time for me to sleep, I'll start really dreaming now

They can't amnesty Stoudemire. Too bad, though.

SNash13 wrote:http://hoopshype.com/columns/rosen/stoudemire-and-lin-are-superfluous

Great article about Amare's role on the knicks. NOW the Suns look great not extending his contract.

how does this make the extension not great?

if he was on the suns he would be avg nearly 25 ppg and we would have the scorer that we need!

Amare would make us contendors still

MELO is the true cancer for the Knicks. If I was in the NBA I would hate to play with Melo.

AMARE is better than any player on the SUNS and his first year at NY he avg 25 ppg That is worth a MAX deal!

Amar'e has been absolutely TERRIBLE this year. Not like: he-should-go-to-the-bench bad. Like, he-doesn't-belong-in-this-league bad.

He's very good offensively as the 5 in a D'Antoni system, but he's TERRIBLE defensively as the 5. So he's not worth it. Tyson Chandler is a slight offensive downgrade at the 5 but a MASSIVE defensive upgrade. Chandler then becomes the pick-and-roll man, and Amar'e's value is nonexistent. He hurts spacing (and therefore the offense) and he badly hurts the defense. He's not very good offensively or defensively as the 4.

So the problem is only a little bit Melo: Melo is indeed a poor fit in D'Antoni's system, but the bigger problem with that trade was all the players that left (as well as the money tied up in Melo.

The real issue, though, is Tyson Chandler. Because Amar'e and Chandler can't both play the 5. 100% OF THE SUCCESS AMAR'E HAD WITH THE KNICKS WAS AT THE 5. Chandler makes Amar'e look bad.

Check out the APM of Amar'e's most-used units this season:

Knicks units this season, net pts, minimum 40 minutes:



Bottom 4: Amar'e
Top 2: no Amar'e

Doesn't Amare have some off-court issues this year?

you have to understand the type of offense that Mike woodson implements. Woodson likes Isolation plays. Amare is a stud pick and roll player. If he comes back to phx, he will play like the same old stud. Bottomline is that the knicks new franchise guys is melo not amare. MElo's game clashes with amare and thats why he is not as effective. Amare's back issues also prevents him from playing up to his capabilities.

He was trash pre-Woodson

The question about Amare needs to be more like "Would you trade for him IF the Knicks took Warrick/Childress and gave us a draft pick to take on his horrible deal?"

We will have cap space to absorb the difference (and make the trade legit) and it clears a bit of cap space for the Knicks to sign someone else.

If we are going to keep Nash, Amare obviously is at his best working with him. The Knicks might just want to dump him for cap space, and will take lesser bad contracts back and throw in a draft pick in the process (since they feel like they are built to win now.)

IF, and of course it is a big IF, we were able to trade Warrick and Childress for Amare and a pick, I think that might be a better option for the Suns IF Nash is still here, than using the $10M on whoever else is available in free agency (Mayo and Beasley aren't going to make us any better...probably just keep us as a fringe playoff team.)

Would the Suns be able to amnesty Amare if we were to trade for him? His contract is pretty atrocious, but if the Suns fall for another 11-14 pick in the draft we're not getting anywhere fast.

Qwigglez wrote:Would the Suns be able to amnesty Amare if we were to trade for him? His contract is pretty atrocious, but if the Suns fall for another 11-14 pick in the draft we're not getting anywhere fast.

As Los Soles said, yes Chandler also takes away PnR space from Stoudemire... But one of the main things is that Melo holds the ball far too long on many occasions... Stat becomes a mid range shooter with little time on shot clock a lot of times.


And SMH on taking on Stas 20 million dollar a year contract knowing he has back problems on top of his knee problems and him regressing a lot....

Hey Soles, if Amare sucks so bad at the 4 with Chandler at the 5, how come he was tearing it up at the 4 next to Shaq at the 5? Shaq doesn't give you any more spacing than Chandler?

nevetsov wrote:Hey Soles, if Amare sucks so bad at the 4 with Chandler at the 5, how come he was tearing it up at the 4 next to Shaq at the 5? Shaq doesn't give you any more spacing than Chandler?

1) Steve Nash.
2) Shaq demands a lot of iso attention.

Nevertheless, the offense was 3.54 points per 100 possessions WORSE with Amar'e on the court, and his offensive rating plummeted after we acquired Shaq. With Amar'e on the court, we scored 116.95 pts per 100 possessions in 2007-2008 and 111.40 pts per 100 possessions in 2008-2009.

2007-2008 most-used units:
Nash-Bell-Hill-Marion-Amar'e -- Off Rtg 118.41
Nash-Bell-Hill-Amar'e-Shaq -- Off Rtg 112.34

Def rtg(s) for those lineups?

Regardless, we probably wouldn't have needed Shaq if we kept KT, right?

sunskerr wrote:Def rtg(s) for those lineups?

2007-2008 most-used units:
Nash-Bell-Hill-Marion-Amar'e -- Off Rtg 118.41; Def Rtg 101.70; Overall: +16.71
Nash-Bell-Hill-Amar'e-Shaq -- Off Rtg 112.34; Def Rtg 105.64; Overall: +6.70

Pretty much what I expected. Marion > Shaq defense. Well, wasn't like we'd win the title anyway. I'm pretty sure we were poor vs the west. Where do you get the stats?

Edit: Hmm. Apparently, we were 31-21 vs the west in 07-08. Houston, SanAn, Dallas, Lakers, Nawlins and even Utah finished better.

Lakers 37-15 (jesus)
Nawlins 34-18
The rest: 33-19

that one is basketballvalue.com

other faves:
basketball-reference.com
hoopdata.com
stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com