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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10534 ... conference

"I tried to tank a couple years ago," Colangelo said. "And I didn't come out and say, 'Coach, you've got to lose games.' I never said that. I wanted to establish a winning tradition and a culture and all of that. But I wanted to do it in the framework of playing the young players, and with that, comes losing. There's just no way to avoid that."

Colangelo said Avery Johnson -- while coaching the then-New Jersey Nets, who already had traded their first-round pick -- was "smirking" after losing to Toronto by 31 points in the final game of the season. That win led to the Raptors picking eighth in the 2012 draft and selecting Terrence Ross.

Had they lost, they could have been in a coin flip for the No. 6 pick, which -- as Colangelo emphasized -- eventually became Damian Lillard.

Really, Colangelo said he was aiming even higher. He wanted the No. 1 pick, but Toronto coach Dwane Casey interfered.

"He did too good of a job in motivating his players," Colangelo said.

Former Orlando Magic coach Stan Van Gundy said he wants all teams to try to win every game.

"Not what Philadelphia is doing right now, which is embarrassing," Van Gundy said in a panel that current Philadelphia 76ers general manager Sam Hinkie attended. "I don't care, [commissioner] Adam Silver can say there's no tanking or what's going on -- if you're putting that roster on the floor, you're doing everything you can possibly do to try to lose."

Van Gundy said he supports eliminating the NBA draft and allowing all rookies to enter the league through free agency.

Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey didn't endorse that specific plan, but he also wants the league to overhaul its method for assigning draft picks.

"We have to get rid of the marginal incentive to lose," Morey said.

The NBA places non-playoff teams into a weighted lottery -- worse teams getting better odds of a higher pick -- so accusations of teams tanking to get a higher selection have long been a part of the league's culture. As the highly anticipated 2014 NBA draft approaches, those murmurs have increased.

Morey finds the speculation justified.

"It's bad right now," Morey said. "I think last year, at the end of the season, I counted like two-thirds of the teams weren't trying to win."

So Colangelo admits to trying to tank(literally, in his own words), and Morey says he believed that 2/3 of the NBA wasn't trying to win last year.

But this is where I think the battle of semantics(which has been discussed many times on this board) pops up: Colangelo makes it clear that he wasn't telling his team to lose. Rather, he stockpiled his team with young players, and losing is a natural byproduct of playing primarily young, unproven guys.

How is that different from Philadelphia is doing? Philly traded their vets for young guys and assets. These young guys aren't very good, and they're losing a lot, but they've set a solid foundation to build on with MCW, Noel, Tobias, Harkless, and a boatload of picks. Is that tanking, or is that rebuilding? Is it disgraceful, or is it a way to construct your team?

What do you guys think?

What BC said isn't tanking, it's rebuilding and also recovering from losing your best player for nothing. They also had many injuries, which left them with little options but to play their younger guys.

Now what Morey said is bull, and implies that twenty teams were purposely trying not to win games. That would mean that both players and coaches would have to be in on that scam. But again, playing younger less experienced players at the end of a season, when it's clear there is no way to make the playoffs isn't tanking. It is evaluating players, and giving them in game experience to see what they have on their roster. Moreover, that isn't a new concept. Also, saving players when it's clear you've made the playoffs and possibly already secured a spot is not tanking either. You save a player for the playoffs, give them some rest, while you check out how deep your bench can go.

Oh well, I've said my peace too often about this, can't wait for the middle school responses.

People who don't believe tanking exists still believe in tooth fairies and Santa.

Tanking doesn't have to mean coaches telling players to lose...it means constructing a roster of players who will suck so you get a good draft pick out of it.

Philadelphia right now is a great example for it. Trade away Holliday for a guy who won't play this season and then construct a roster of players who are barely NBA caliber players.

Wow, I was expecting middle schoolers, not grammar schoolers.

Tanking is purposely losing. A GM can't make all the right moves to lose games on purpose. You can never get rid of all your good players, for you will not have anyone to build around. You don't create a losing culture, because any great star you may draft, won't stay, or possibly could just get dragged down in the crap that GM has created.

As for Jrue, how much did he help the Pelicans last night? Teams take calculated risks, and sometimes they pay off. Philly was going nowhere with Jrue, so it was wise to get the best value they thought they could before having to pay him the big bucks. Yes we have to wait to see if that moved pays off, but with the subtraction of Jrue, came the addition of MCW, who is having a breakout rookie season.

Is it a mess, sure, but it was a mess in Philly ever since they traded for Bynum, and even years before that. GMing is a tough job, and only a handful get it right.

I'm all for restructuring the draft, keeping competitive hopes alive throughout the season, but who are we kidding anyway, when the league's own guardians of justice and fairness, still can't do their job correctly, and often look either incompetent or bias towards teams with multiple stars on it.

76ers are selling decent young players for future late picks...
That's the difference.

Suns and what Raptors kinda did is bring in younger players and play them.


76ers would play 4 players if they could.... They are literally giving away players for cap space and late picks.
They kept Young maybe to trade him during draft day or as an expiring next season.


Suns brought in young players, traded veterans ... But are playing those young players different enough to what 76er are doing/did.


And tanking occurs...
As I mentioned GM and above level management care about business as well as "winning".
My wife is doing her MBA , which I plan to do later also, and reading her books you can clearly see that upper management/owner level have different vision/strategy over "floor" level staff...

Floor level staff do everything they can do a good job... For players and coaches that means ... Play well and look good.

But upper management have to consider long term/short term business strategic plans...

GM and above management/owners have social, political, global business strategy... If "losing" short term brings them good assets for long term.. They consider that mightily...

But they aren't allowed to tell floor level to purposely sabotage their business... That's what BAD upper management do... And how people to jail lol.
Good upper management do everything subtly, strategically etc...




Lakers being bad in a really really good draft is example of this... Having Kobe sit out a whole season is not just Kobe's decision... D'Antoni and Gasol would love him to play... But everything that has happened has been influenced by upper management.

"I tried to tank a couple years ago," Colangelo said.

Well, there it is folks, straight from a GMs mouth. He straight said tanking, you can't twist it. Tanking doesn't mean rebuilding, it means tanking. Tanking exists. Case closed. Arguments about tanking not existing are no longer valid! Deal with it.

76ers are doing everything short of holding up a sign saying "were tanking," to convey they are tanking.

Btw thanks rsavaj for posting that. You closed the case of the reality of tanking.

rsavaj wrote:How is that different from Philadelphia is doing? Philly traded their vets for young guys and assets. These young guys aren't very good, and they're losing a lot, but they've set a solid foundation to build on with MCW, Noel, Tobias, Harkless, and a boatload of picks. Is that tanking, or is that rebuilding? Is it disgraceful, or is it a way to construct your team?

Uh? The Orlando 76ers?

IF the Suns do not make the playoffs - they deserve the ping pong balls to go there way that's for sure

Phillys definitely not trying to win this yr but I think there's a little bit too much bitching about the hawes and turner moves. Neither player is good and it's not like Philly was so much better with them. They did the right thing getting what they could instead of just letting them walk this summer.

Sunsdeuce wrote:"I tried to tank a couple years ago," Colangelo said.

Well, there it is folks, straight from a GMs mouth. He straight said tanking, you can't twist it. Tanking doesn't mean rebuilding, it means tanking. Tanking exists. Case closed. Arguments about tanking not existing are no longer valid! Deal with it.


Btw thanks rsavaj for posting that. You closed the case of the reality of tanking.

The new NBA commissioner Adam Silver completely disagrees with you. He was recently asked during an interview whether teams intentionally lost games. His response....absolutely not. He also said what many people on this forum say, that people confuse rebuilding with tanking (dishonestly manipulating the system to lose). How can you be dishonestly trying to lose by trading you better players for young talent or picks? Sure, you will be worse in the short run, but the hope is to develop your young (and cheap) talent and eventually land a FA who is a difference maker. Hopefully you get.a good pick in the process. The league reviews and approves every player trade, draft pick trade, free agent signing and all movement of talent. If Silver and league attorneys approve every trade, how can it be a dishonest strategy? Teams have a right to get worse today, in hopes of getting better tomorrow.

This is why Bryan Colangelo is an idiot. It is within the scope of the CBA for BC to be a bad GM. He is just trying to cover his bad decision making as a GM and say he was intentionally trying to lose.

Now, if Colangelo forced a healthy Chris Bosh to sit and not play for several games in order to lose, then that would be tanking and the league would investigate and impose penalties.

My question for people who believe teams dishonestly lose. If you can see dishonesty in the league, why can't Stern/Silver and their staff of attorneys. If kids on realgm see it, why doesn't the league see it as well and step in to stop it?

Orlando, 76'ers, Utah are all rebuilding, but they aren't playing dishonest.

This really isn't that hard to understand.

Can someone google Adam Silver talks tanking and post a link on here? I am on an IPad and don't know how to do it.

Thanks.

Clearly Ryan Mcd wanted to tank but outsmarted himself. He hired possibly one of the best coaches in the league without really knowing it (I'm sure he thought Jeff was going to be great for the younger players), I think he underestimated dragic's ability, and I'm sure he wasn't 100 percent sure that Bledsoe was going to perform as well as he did. I think he had a grand plan of developing the young team while losing and getting a top 3 pick. I think when we started winning he had to rework his initial plan. But it's all good, we are still not a great team. Just need to upgrade a few places and possibly add an all-star and we will be contenders. I'm
Still enjoying the season.

It's like investing $100 in a stock and figuring the stock will be worth something in a few years but then you find out the stock just maxed out a month later and is now worth 6 figures! Basically the plan worked out faster than you realized.

He should have rehired that piece of crap Lindsey hunter if he wanted to successfully tank. He would have got maybe 12 wins out of this team. Lol

Sunsdeuce wrote:"I tried to tank a couple years ago," Colangelo said.

Well, there it is folks, straight from a GMs mouth. He straight said tanking, you can't twist it. Tanking doesn't mean rebuilding, it means tanking. Tanking exists. Case closed. Arguments about tanking not existing are no longer valid! Deal with it.

76ers are doing everything short of holding up a sign saying "were tanking," to convey they are tanking.

Btw thanks rsavaj for posting that. You closed the case of the reality of tanking.

According to RDG, Colangelo is lying

He knows more about what Colangelo is saying than Colangelo himself

Ha!!!!! Finally figured out how to cut and paste on my IPad!

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New NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says no NBA teams are 'tanking'
February 15, 2014|By Josh Robbins, Orlando Sentinel
NEW ORLEANS — New NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said he sees no evidence that teams are "tanking" their way through the 2013-14 regular season.

On Saturday night, Silver was asked to define "tanking" and to comment on the teams that are putting young players on the floor and losing along the way.




"My understanding of 'tanking' would be losing games on purpose, and there's absolutely no evidence that any team in the NBA has ever lost a single game — or certainly in any time that I've been in the league — on purpose," Silver said during a media conference with reporters at Smoothie King Center.

"To me, what you're referring to, I think, is rebuilding, and I'm not sure it's just a function of the collective-bargaining agreement. I think there's a balance with any team of the need to look out to the future and, at the same time, put a competitive product on the floor.

"And I think what we're seeing in the league right now is there's no question that several teams are building toward the future, and I think their fans understand that as well. If there was any indication whatsoever that players or coaches somehow were not doing their absolute most to win a game, we would be all over that. But I don't believe for a second that's what's going on."

The Orlando Magic are one of the NBA teams that have been mentioned as tanking this season. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the Magic have the fifth-youngest roster in the league. The team also owns a 16-38 record, the third-worst record in the NBA.

The Magic recently beat the two teams with the NBA's best records, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers.

Cutter wrote:Ha!!!!! Finally figured out how to cut and paste on my IPad!

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New NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says no NBA teams are 'tanking'
February 15, 2014|By Josh Robbins, Orlando Sentinel
NEW ORLEANS — New NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said he sees no evidence that teams are "tanking" their way through the 2013-14 regular season.

On Saturday night, Silver was asked to define "tanking" and to comment on the teams that are putting young players o

The Orlando Magic are one of the NBA teams that have been mentioned as tanking this season. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, the Magic have the fifth-youngest roster in the league. The team also owns a 16-38 record, the third-worst record in the NBA.

The Magic recently beat the two teams with the NBA's best records, the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Indiana Pacers.

If I were to become a new commissioner, I sure the hell wouldn't admit to my league purposely tank. Especially in the first few days on the job.

You probably should read this then. Even good teams that aren't rebuilding, do the tank.

The article is called: When tankers tell the truth, per espn. It's a very very long so I just cut out the spurs tank job(probably the most famous of all tank jobs.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... esktop&wjb

"Given that, it’s worth noting that tanking has been confessed to dozens of times off the record and a surprising number of times on the record:....."

"......One of the most notorious years for tanking was 1997. It’s widely believed that the San Antonio Spurs tanked the season by holding out David Robinson longer than necessary to secure a higher draft pick, which became the most coveted player available, Tim Duncan. In fact, to many, this is one of the most incredibly successful tank jobs in NBA history, in part because the Spurs were already a very good team, and they have won four titles and counting with Duncan leading the way. But to our knowledge, no one involved has admitted that the Spurs were tanking.

The same year, though, the Boston Celtics did indeed tank, according to longtime Celtic M.L. Carr, who coached the team from 1995 to 1997. In 1996-97, the Celtics fell from 33 wins the previous season to 15 wins.

According to Mark Cofman of the Boston Herald, in 2001:
Carr suggested his last season as Celtics coach in 1996-97, during which the team suffered through a franchise-worst 15-67 record, was a tank job designed to deliver the incoming coach (Rick Pitino) with strong draft position. "That was part of the orchestration," said Carr, an obvious indictment of the entire organization and its part in encouraging a losing season in an attempt to get the first overall pick (Tim Duncan). As it turned out, the Celtics lost out on Duncan and settled for the third and sixth overall picks.
Pitino’s tenure as Boston coach would be a great disappointment, and he often lamented that he had taken the job with the expectation that the Celtics would get Duncan.... "

".......Why do we have a draft lottery? Because of what happened in 1984.

In his book “Tip-Off,” a thorough account of the pivotal 1984 NBA draft, Filip Bondy dedicates a chapter to tanking entitled “Embracing Defeat.”

The ’84 draft included Hakeem Olajuwon, Sam Bowie, Michael Jordan, Sam Perkins and Charles Barkley. Bondy recounts some of the odd behavior of the Houston Rockets, who appeared to be maneuvering for the right to draft Olajuwon, a star at the University of Houston, with Jordan as a nice Plan B. (The right to make the first choice in the draft was decided by coin flip.)

As the Rockets nosedived, everyone noticed.

"Weird things were happening. A lot of funny stuff going on, leaving a dark mark on the integrity of the game," said Pat Williams, then the general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers.

According to Dr. Jack Ramsay, then coach of the Portland Trail Blazers, "There was a lot of reason for concern, for suspicion."

As reported by Bondy, it was Frank Layden, the former Utah Jazz coach, who spilled the beans on the Rocket science: "They were losing on purpose. That was told to me by one of their executives, that it was a business decision. And that’s why we went to the lottery system. It’s still going on a little bit today, anyway."

Bondy writes: "The NBA’s image suffered a severe blow that spring from all the suspicious losing. … The league was so concerned about the perceived chicanery that its board of governors instituted a lottery system weeks after the 1984 draft to assure such nonsense would never happen again."

Then again: As we’ve seen above, the lottery does not assure that tanking ended in 1984. Not even close.

Furthermore, these are hardly the only cases in recent NBA history, and HoopIdea will continue to bring tanking to light."


Tanking is a fact of life. Just as much as the air you breathe! Deal with it.

LMAO!

After all the people that said that tanking doesnt exist and telling us to find one instance where someone admitted to tanking, Here it is, plain as day. A GM admits to it. Straight up calls it tanking. Explains how he tried. Yet now people are saying to read what the damn commissioner of the league said about tanking, IE that it doesnt exist.

Of course Silver is going to say it doesnt exist! Do you think he wants that sort of thing to get out??? Hell No! Even more so, he said there was no evidence of tanking, but that was BEFORE a NBA GM came out and flat out admitted to it!

Its as clear as day! Tanking happens! And if you still dont believe it does, well, then you are as dense as Shaq's manhood.

Kerrsed wrote:LMAO!

After all the people that said that tanking doesnt exist and telling us to find one instance where someone admitted to tanking, Here it is, plain as day. A GM admits to it. Straight up calls it tanking. Explains how he tried. Yet now people are saying to read what the damn commissioner of the league said about tanking, IE that it doesnt exist.

Of course Silver is going to say it doesnt exist! Do you think he wants that sort of thing to get out??? Hell No! Even more so, he said there was no evidence of tanking, but that was BEFORE a NBA GM came out and flat out admitted to it!

Its as clear as day! Tanking happens! And if you still dont believe it does, well, then you are as dense as Shaq's manhood.

You reworded everything I wrote.


This case is closed. Tanking happens.

Kerrsed wrote:LMAO!

After all the people that said that tanking doesnt exist and telling us to find one instance where someone admitted to tanking, Here it is, plain as day. A GM admits to it. Straight up calls it tanking. Explains how he tried. Yet now people are saying to read what the damn commissioner of the league said about tanking, IE that it doesnt exist.

Of course Silver is going to say it doesnt exist! Do you think he wants that sort of thing to get out??? Hell No! Even more so, he said there was no evidence of tanking, but that was BEFORE a NBA GM came out and flat out admitted to it!

Its as clear as day! Tanking happens! And if you still dont believe it does, well, then you are as dense as Shaq's manhood.

Come on Kerrsed, you are not one of those, who reads someone's posts, and then argues points that were not in said post. For the hundredth time, I've repeatedly asked for a player or coach to come forward and say they were told/instructed to lose games. BC clearly says he never told anyone to lose games.

Adam Silver also clearly states what is considered "tanking" according to the league. Not any new made up version of the word the kids are using today. So to me, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks the word means, according to the league the word means losing on purpose. And to this day, there has been no one to come forward to say they were told/instructed to lose games on purpose.

Again it's almost impossible and quite stupid to lose games on purpose without having coaches and players involved.

The more people ignore the actual argument, then I guess they are ........ ........!

So whatever you guys now think you have...

I still want to hear all the moves you think back that BC tried to lose games on purpose. People need to read the article better.

Kerrsed, I'm afraid this is a lost cause.

To the none believers, I quote Jules Winnfield: You wanna play blind man, go walk with the shepherd, but me, my eyes are wide f$&kin' open.

You guys can quote whoever the f*ck you want! it doesn't matter, according to the commish of the NBA, tanking is losing games on purpose. It seems as if you guys think that if you have a different definition of double dribble, that the league should call it according to your interpretation. Well news to you, NBA disagrees with you, and if you don't like it, start a new league and make all the definitions you want.

According to the NBA commish "tanking" IS losing games on purpose. Get it, got it, good! Lucky for me, I had the same definition, as well as many others here.