What's your timetable you're giving Alex Len?

PhxSunsFan1234 · Post #1 » by **PhxSunsFan1234** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:24 pm

He's young. And we all hate to see a 5th pick wasted on potential and slow grooming, even if its the smart choice. We all want to see the Anthony Davis effect, even though it's rare.

Len has the tools. The athleticism, the height, the weight, the drive it seems. But this year he looked pretty bad whenever he was on the court. And by bad, i mean terrible. He showed some flashes of what he could be, but more often than not it was ugly.

A lot can be blamed on the injury and his inexperience. But how many years will you give him before you write him off? I think he plays a little bit bigger role this year, but not as big as some might expect. I think if after year 3, he hasn't made significant strides, i'll be quite concerned.

Scutt · Post #2 » by **Scutt** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:43 pm

PhxSunsFan1234 wrote:A lot can be blamed on the injury and his inexperience. But how many years will you give him before you write him off? .

Sadly, I think many Suns fans have already written Len off. It has been said countless times, but I will say it again, big men take time to develop. Just look at Robin Lopez as an example. He had some injury problems and lost his role on the team to Gortat, but the potential was always there and we saw plenty of it during the 2010 season. Yet many posters on here were calling him trash when he was on our team and saying he didn't deserve to even be in the league. We gave up on him and now he is the starting center for the Blazers. Aldridge even went so far as to credit Rolo for the teams turnaround, saying he does "all the dirty work" and is a defensive anchor. I would love to have watched last years Suns team with Robin as our starting center. Imagine Goran and Robin, two guys we drafted together, leading us into the playoffs once again. I think that would have been epic, but the Suns seem to always be impatient with young talent. Hopefully we have learned from the past, and let Len develop at his own pace.

PhxSunsFan1234 · Post #3 » by **PhxSunsFan1234** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:45 pm

Scutt wrote:
PhxSunsFan1234 wrote:A lot can be blamed on the injury and his inexperience. But how many years will you give him before you write him off? .

Sadly, I think many Suns fans have already written Len off. It has been said countless times, but I will say it again, big men take time to develop. Just look at Robin Lopez as an example. He had some injury problems and lost his role on the team to Gortat, but the potential was always there and we saw plenty of it during the 2010 season. Yet many posters on here were calling him trash when he was on our team and saying he didn't deserve to even be in the league. We gave up on him and now he is the starting center for the Blazers. Aldridge even went so far as to credit Rolo for the teams turnaround, saying he does "all the dirty work" and is a defensive anchor. I would love to have watched last years Suns team with Robin as our starting center. Imagine Goran and Robin, two guys we drafted together, leading us into the playoffs once again. I think that would have been epic, but the Suns seem to always be impatient with young talent. Hopefully we have learned from the past, and let Len develop at his own pace.

To be fair, Robin Lopez was pretty awful on the Suns. I don't think he did well on the Pelicans either. Sometimes a change of scenery and a new system is what a player needs. Glad he found it. Really missed him while watching him in the playoffs.

Christine-In-AZ · Post #4 » by **Christine-In-AZ** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:51 pm

The '13 draft was so weak. Alex is really about a 12th to 15th pick. He gets at least another 120 or 150 games before I start coloring him "not NBA quality".

mybloodisorange · Post #5 » by **mybloodisorange** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:10 pm

To be fair Len didn't start playing basketball until 13 (he was a gymnast) and barely spoke English when Maryland recruited him. And before people start pining for Rolo lets not forget that it took until his 5th year for people to even consider him starter quality and he is still a below average rebounder.

Look at how much our own foreign born Dragic has progressed since we drafted him. When you consider that it usually takes big men a few years to adjust to the speed and pace of the NBA Len is right on schedule. I can't believe people are so quick to give up on the young talent that we knew would take time to be developed.

Scutt · Post #6 » by **Scutt** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:41 pm

PhxSunsFan1234 wrote:
To be fair, Robin Lopez was pretty awful on the Suns. I don't think he did well on the Pelicans either.

You really think so? Did you watch any games during the 2010 season? These were his stats that year:

19.3 Minutes Per Game
8.4 Points Per Game
4.8 Rebounds Per Game
1 Block Per Game
.588 FG Percentage
.704 FT Percentage

He also played well for the Pelicans, he started all 82 games and averaged 11 points in 26 minutes a game.

BurningHeart · Post #7 » by **BurningHeart** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:02 pm

I don't know, maybe he can go to the Spurs with Dragic.

Post #8 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:09 pm

I give Len two more years after this one. I think he's gonna make significant progress though each year, so I'm not too worried honestly. He needs to add some muscle to his frame this offseason, and work on slowing the game down for him. Len has shown some potential in the limited amount of minutes he's been getting, getting tap out rebounds on the offensive glass that reminds of Roy Hibbert. Offensively, I think he has a solid build, his mid-range jumper isn't clunky looking it's pretty smooth, and I think will improve over time, and his footwork isn't bad. You don't give up on a real 7 footer that possesses his skill-set, he'll be our starting franchise center for a while.

Maystack · Post #9 » by **Maystack** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:13 pm

Qwigglez wrote:I give Len two more years after this one. I think he's gonna make significant progress though each year, so I'm not too worried honestly. He needs to add some muscle to his frame this offseason, and work on slowing the game down for him. Len has shown some potential in the limited amount of minutes he's been getting, getting tap out rebounds on the offensive glass that reminds of Roy Hibbert. Offensively, I think he has a solid build, his mid-range jumper isn't clunky looking it's pretty smooth, and I think will improve over time, and his footwork isn't bad. You don't give up on a real 7 footer that possesses his skill-set, he'll be our starting franchise center for a while.

Agree with all of this. You should never write a player off after only one year with limited play time. Remember Dragic, or 'Tragic' as he was known in his first year? Or how about Markieff who everyone said would never amount to anything? Gotta have some patience, especially with bigs. We all knew Len (and Goodwin) would be a project. I think he's going to improve massively next season.

Scutt · Post #10 » by **Scutt** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:19 pm

mybloodisorange wrote: And before people start pining for Rolo lets not forget that it took until his 5th year for people to even consider him starter quality and he is still a below average rebounder.

That is simply not true. Why do all Suns fans have such short memories? Robin Lopez was once viewed as our young and upcoming starting center. During the 2009-2010 season Robin Lopez put up strong numbers for the Suns and he started something like 30 games for us that season until he became injured right before the playoffs and returned during the Lakers series. He started 50 something games the following season, but was never fully healthy due to the long recovery from a herniated disc in his back.

The following season, he lost role on the team with the addition of Gortat, and then he was shipped off to the Pelicans, again where he started all 82 games. So it is a stretch to say he is just now being viewed as a starting quality center. The Suns viewed him as one in his 2nd year in the league, he simply had some injury problems and the organization foolishly soured on him. I still remember Alvin Gentry on 620 ktar after the 2011 season, essentially blaming the seasons failures all on Robin Lopez. We lost Amare, our franchise power forward, and instead of replacing him, we pinned all our hopes on a young Robin Lopez, who was coming off a serious injury, expecting him to be the only big, with Childress, Warrick, and Hedo masquerading as power forwards. I still don't forgive the Suns organization for giving up on both Dragic and Lopez.

As far as rebounding goes, Robin does a decent job at it. In fact he is a very good offensive rebounder, but more importantly, he makes his team rebound better as a whole when he is in the game. He always boxes out, something Gortat rarely does, but most Suns fans loved Gortat because he grabbed 10+ rebounds a night. He is also an excellent shot blocker and free throw shooter to go along with his decent offensive game. People need to stop buying so much into stats and actually watch games, there is a difference between getting stats ( Gortat) and doing the little things ( Robin Lopez) that help your team win, even if those things are completely oblivious to the average NBA fan.

mybloodisorange · Post #11 » by **mybloodisorange** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:20 pm

I couldn't agree more. Even though you could see him get lost at times last year, you also could see his natural shot blocking and rebounding ability. I've also read that the Suns are pleasantly surprised with his mid range form. If he ends up being a solid free throw shooter and isn't foul or injury prone we will be set with him as our starting center for years to come.

MrMiyagi · Post #12 » by **MrMiyagi** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:15 pm

BurningHeart wrote:I don't know, maybe he can go to the Spurs with Dragic.

I'll give him until the end of his rookie deal to become a rotation guy. I think bigs can progress after their rookie deal is up, so if he gets some good rotation minutes by then, I'd be more than happy to resign him.

Bulk · Post #13 » by **Bulk** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:42 pm

2nd lowest PER in a rookie season for a #5 pick since 1989 is underwhelming. Only Nikoloz Tskitishvili did worse.

Still too early to call him a bust. He was already a project when drafted and the injury did not help the process, he has to figure his game but he has time, at least until the end of his rookie contract.

Post #14 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:06 pm

Big men take time to develop because they usually experience a fairly large growth spurt to get to their hieght in a relatively short time span. They need a few years to get acclimated and put on the weight and build the strength of a 7 footer. I certainly wouldn't take too much stock in his rookie season.

I think we need another season to showcase his skill.

PhxSunsFan1234 · Post #15 » by **PhxSunsFan1234** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:08 pm

Bulk wrote:2nd lowest PER in a rookie season for a #5 pick since 1989 is underwhelming. Only Nikoloz Tskitishvili did worse.

Still too early to call him a bust. He was already a project when drafted and the injury did not help the process, he has to figure his game but he has time, at least until the end of his rookie contract.

Just so were on the same page here, I am absolutely not calling him a bust. I never judge a player until Year 3 is over. That gives enough time to really evaluate a player and his career. After year 3, you can have a good idea of how the player has developed and will continue to develop.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #16 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:30 pm

I'm still a believer in len but I want to see some improvement by next season. Not saying he needs to take this huge jump but I definitely want to see some baby steps in that direction. Things like getting stronger and holding his position in the post better and overall being able to make quicker decisions when he gets the ball on offense. I would also like to see his foul rate start to drop; and would expect it does since this is a very common thing with young bigs as they learn what they can get away with on d.

The positive thing is he has legit center size to go with decent athletic ability to give him a very high ceiling.

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Cutter · Post #17 » by **Cutter** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:35 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
BurningHeart wrote:I don't know, maybe he can go to the Spurs with Dragic.

I'll give him until the end of his rookie deal to become a rotation guy. I think bigs can progress after their rookie deal is up, so if he gets some good rotation minutes by then, I'd be more than happy to resign him.

This. End of rookie contract, all while improving year over year. I think Len will become an excellent C for years to come. Everyone just be patient.

Post #18 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:37 am

PhxSunsFan1234 wrote:He's young. And we all hate to see a 5th pick wasted on potential and slow grooming, even if its the smart choice. We all want to see the Anthony Davis effect, even though it's rare.

Len has the tools. The athleticism, the height, the weight, the drive it seems. But this year he looked pretty bad whenever he was on the court. And by bad, i mean terrible. He showed some flashes of what he could be, but more often than not it was ugly.

A lot can be blamed on the injury and his inexperience. But how many years will you give him before you write him off? I think he plays a little bit bigger role this year, but not as big as some might expect. I think if after year 3, he hasn't made significant strides, i'll be quite concerned.

I won't write him off before his rookie contract is up. I may be a bit concerned if he hasn't looked good by year 3. Giving up on guys too quickly can be a mistake. Lots of big guys take a while. Tyson Chandler for example.

Cutter · Post #19 » by **Cutter** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:46 am

As a Len fan, I will become highly concerned about his long term prospects if he has repeat ankle issues in the next few years. If he can stay healthy then the sky's the limit.

asudevil · Post #20 » by **asudevil** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:59 am

Len gets at least 2 more years before i even start judging the kid. If we were talking about a 22 year old rookie we drafted, then he would have a shorter leash, but we drafted this kid when he was 19. He just barely turned 21, so he still needs time to mature and grow.

I feel like we as suns fans give our rookies no shot what-so-ever. Its like the D'Antoni era caused us to completely forget how rookies develop. Either that or we have no confidence in our front office and just expect the draft to be a failure. We have this mindset of instantaneous results or ship them out after a year. Or is it that when we see a player drafted two or three slots behind we just go with the "hey, how come _____ doesnt play like that, toss him to the curb." its really kind of pathetic.

I swear half the people here would ship Len out for a second rounder if given the chance.

the same talk came up with Marshall/Lopez/Markieff/Marcus