The TJ Warren Thread!

[jcsunsfan]

TJ is a huge bright spot this year. Coming off the bench really suits him. He can just go to town offensively. The Warriors announcers last night said that TJ is "the perfect sixth man on a really really good team."

[Saberestar]

“He’s a big part of our group,” Kokoskov said.

“We know he’s capable of scoring. He just showed it (Monday night). He steps on the big stage and when he plays the big games, against anybody he’s capable of scoring. Doesn’t surprise me at all.”

“I’m happy for him,” Kokoskov said.

“He’s a really good player,” Suns shooting guard Devin Booker said.

“No matter what’s going on, he can play well and knows how to play the game of basketball and it shows.”

“He’s that piece that we need,” Booker said.

“We told him that before the season. He’s coming off the bench. He’s going to have to be that spark plug and he’s been doing a good job of it.”

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/1746009002?__twitter_impression=true

[Saberestar]

To better understand how Suns forward T.J. Warren transformed himself into a legitimate threat from beyond the arc this season, it may be helpful to take a moment and stream an episode of one of his favorite childhood shows — the iconic Japanese anime “Dragon Ball Z.”

For those not familiar, the basic trope throughout the series is the idea that certain gifted individuals, with the proper motivation and support from those closest to them, can surpass their perceived limitations through rigorous training, allowing them to rise to new heights.

This past summer, the talented 6-foot-8 swingman was on a mission to do just that. He chose to spend the bulk of his offseason in Raleigh, N.C., working out with his trusted friend and trainer, Trevor West, intent on taking his game to the next level.

“I believe that certain athletes have a different gear,” West said. “Sometimes, T.J. goes Super Saiyan. I’ve seen him power up and score 40 points in a half. It’s just a next-level mentality that a lot of players don’t have. He’s always going to find a way to rise above you. If you challenge him, he can rise to any level.”

Warren’s ability to slash through defenses and efficiently score around the rim earned him National Player of the Year consideration during his sophomore campaign at North Carolina State. Since entering the league as the 14th overall pick in 2014, those offensive instincts have transitioned seamlessly onto the NBA stage.

Warren has gradually increased his scoring totals in each of his four seasons in Phoenix. However, even when averaging a career-high 19.6 points per game in 2017, he still struggled to find any form of consistency as a long-range shooter.

He hit only 27 percent and 22 percent of his 3-point tries the past two seasons, respectively. Correcting that flaw was a priority for the 25-year-old this summer.

“We had actually talked about getting in the gym together toward the end of last season,” West said. “I told him that his jump shot wasn’t broken, he just wasn’t doing some of the mechanical things that he had to. For example, he wouldn’t always turn his wrist over. So during our workouts, I made sure that was one of his main points of focus.”

Last season, the long-range results just weren’t there.

For three months, Warren and West met mostly at the JD Lewis Center in Raleigh five days a week. But before the workout sessions began, the two had to have an honest conversation about where Warren stood as a player, and the work it would take to achieve his goal.

West shared that his two main criticisms of Warren’s mechanics heading into the summer were his follow-through, and the twisting motion he made in mid-air after releasing his shot.

Sometimes, it can be difficult for a professional athlete to listen to any type of criticism from someone other than a team coach or a seasoned veteran. But since the evaluation was coming from a long-time friend, it was easy for Warren to keep an open mind and be receptive to West’s input.

“I tell people I have two brothers and T.J. is one of them, so everything I’m telling him he knows it’s love,” West said. “It makes it a lot easier to work with him because he knows that we both want a common goal and everything is for his betterment.”

The workouts themselves were relatively simple — the challenge was repetition.

West would begin each session by having Warren shoot directly in front of the rim with an emphasis on finishing his follow-through with a “violent snap” to improve wrist dexterity. From there, West would have Warren remain at a close range practicing basketball moves that he would normally execute from a further distance.

The purpose of this wasn’t to baby Warren, but to get him to pay attention to the little things — such as having a higher arc on his shots, freezing his follow-through and having proper balance with his feet. It was important for Warren to shoot every shot with the same technique, because that’s what separates good shooters from the greats.

“I looked at great shooters and tried to break down what they had in common, what they did consistently,” West said. “It’s actually funny because I was watching the game the other night and they gave T.J. the Klay Thompson analogy. That’s the shooter I studied the most in terms of how I wanted T.J. to go about his shot.”

From there, Warren would slowly work his way back to the free-throw-line area. After he showed a mastery of the mid-range shot, West would finally allow Warren to extend out to the 3-point line.

West explained that the total amount of shots taken in each spot before the final phase of the workout varied depending on what type of training Warren had already done that day. But generally, West estimates that Warren would shoot anywhere from 600 to 700 shots daily, on top of playing pick up.

If West had to estimate the total amount of shots Warren took this past summer, it would be somewhere around 42,000.

“I just wanted to shoot until my arms got tired,” Warren said. “I felt like my arms were going to fall off.”

To finish up the workout, West would challenge Warren’s range in a spot shooting drill: seven spots, 10 shots per spot, around the arc and back.

“I wanted him to build good habits when it came to jump shooting from deep,” West said. “The aim was for it to become muscle memory. He was hard on himself at first after too many misses, and he would either want to start over or make two or three in a row before we moved on.”

However, once that drill concluded, Warren’s work wasn’t finished yet. West would then hand Warren over to his uncle, two-time NBA champion David West, to take what they just worked on and have him apply it to game-like situations.

“I come in and work with him on spots, making sure that he’s comfortable handling the ball in pick and roll, and then I’ll switch things up on the next possession by having him stand in the corner and knock down a 3,” David West told The Athletic. “He has to be consistent in doing things like catching the ball in transition, and then being able to drive to the elbow and hit a jump shot. Again, it’s all about him being balanced.

“The biggest thing for T.J. has always been his ability to score from basically all over the floor with and without the ball, so his workouts aren’t rocket science. We just get in the gym and make sure he’s strong, and we make sure he’s shooting the ball and focused on getting better. Really that’s all you can do when you’re a pro, right? You have to work every offseason to try and add something to your bag, and he does that every time he steps in the gym.”

Warren progressed faster than West anticipated. By the end of the summer, West said that people would come into the gym just to watch him shoot. Warren was making so many shots, his workouts became a “spectacle” but West was still eager to see how his new mechanics would translate during the regular season.

He didn’t have to wait very long.

Warren’s dramatic improvement as a shooter this summer has him on the brink of a breakout season in 2018.

Warren has scored 70 points off the bench through four games this season, which are the most by a Suns player since Isaiah Thomas in 2014. He’s on pace to set career highs in field-goal percentage (55), 3-point shooting percentage (56) 3-point attempts per game (4.0) and made 3s per game (2.3).

Until this season, Warren had never shot better than 40 percent from behind the arc at any point in his NBA career, nor had he averaged greater than 1.5 3-point attempts per game. It’s still early, but it appears as if all of Warren’s hard work with the Wests this summer is paying off. After making only 20 3-pointers all of last year, this season, he’s already made eight.

“It just makes him more dangerous,” David West said. “He was already a dynamic scorer, and now he has another weapon to hurt you with.

“He’s always been on this course. He’s always been a guy that wants to win – goes out and plays hard – he’s always competing. That’s always been a part of his DNA.”

This season — granted, it’s only 49 shot attempts — the improvement is clear.

Warren, who was the Suns’ second-leading scorer last season behind Devin Booker, is still adjusting to the idea of coming off the bench this year. But according to West, “politics” don’t matter to him. At the end of the day, Warren’s just trying to hoop.

“Obviously it’s not ideal for him, ” David West said, “but my message to him is to be professional and go out and handle his business the best way he can. And obviously maintain his confidence, because in my opinion, T.J. is a starter – there’s no question in my mind.

“He’s in a situation where the team seems like it’s in rebuilding trying to figure out their identity with a new coach. That’s a lot, but he just has to maintain his professionalism and continue to work and be productive when he’s out there on the floor.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/9rqwn6/cj_holmes_about_42000_shots_how_tj_warren_found/

[bwgood77]

Great read to see how much he wanted to focus on improving the 3 this summer. 42,000 shots? Damn.

[Damkac]

I always defended TJ but his lack of aggression is really frustrating. No Booker, team needs scorer and he shoots just 4 times?

[bwgood77]

I always defended TJ but his lack of aggression is really frustrating. No Booker, team needs scorer and he shoots just 4 times?

He wasn't getting the ball...once was in a very bad position. He's not one of the primary ball handlers. If he gets it there is no doubt he will shoot it if it's a good shot, but people also want him to work on his passing and Igor is preaching ball movement.

[sunskerr]

I always defended TJ but his lack of aggression is really frustrating. No Booker, team needs scorer and he shoots just 4 times?

He wasn't getting the ball...once was in a very bad position. He's not one of the primary ball handlers. If he gets it there is no doubt he will shoot it if it's a good shot, but people also want him to work on his passing and Igor is preaching ball movement.

He also only played 18 minutes. Im holding that one against Igor.

[PackSuns]

Every coach that he has ever had (since his 1st HShas slept on him. He is not a guy who will wow you doing drills. TJ has been through this before. He will get 30+ mins a game soon or he will be gone

[lilfishi22]

Doesn't make any sense for him to be playing less than 30mpg

[No Koko]

Doesn't make any sense for him to be playing less than 30mpg

Haven't you heard? He doesn't have enough Veteran Experience and Leadership™ to start yet.

[sunsbg]

Doesn't make any sense for him to be playing less than 30mpg

Haven't you heard? He doesn't have enough Veteran Experience and Leadership™ to start yet.

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

[No Koko]

Doesn't make any sense for him to be playing less than 30mpg

Haven't you heard? He doesn't have enough Veteran Experience and Leadership™ to start yet.

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

Well Booker is out, so Igor is starting Canaan, Jackson, Ariza, Anderson, and Ayton. That's Ayton + 4 garbage players. With Booker out especially we need our best players on the floor.

This TJ bench argument is crazy. He is our best scorer with Booker out so he needs as many minutes as possible, period. When you sit him for the first 7 minutes of the game you are limiting the maximum amount of minutes he can play in that game without getting tired. That is STUPID! The team will collapse regardless if both Booker and Warren are not on the court, so without Booker we need to play TJ as many minutes as possible. The way to do that is to START HIM!!!!! What's next, Ayton and Booker need to come off the bench too to keep our bench from being so bad??? This logic is just ridiculous

[lilfishi22]

Doesn't make any sense for him to be playing less than 30mpg

Haven't you heard? He doesn't have enough Veteran Experience and Leadership™ to start yet.

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

[No Koko]

Haven't you heard? He doesn't have enough Veteran Experience and Leadership™ to start yet.

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

Yes it does matter. These guys are not robots or players in NBA 2k19, they care about their own careers and a guy like TJ Warren is definitely pissed and embarrassed about being labeled a "bench player." It is insulting to him and his game. Even if he plays 30+ MPG, starting vs not starting him could easily be the difference between him being happy and him being disgruntled and wanting out.

[bwgood77]

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

Yes it does matter. These guys are not robots or players in NBA 2k19, they care about their own careers and a guy like TJ Warren is definitely pissed and embarrassed about being labeled a "bench player." It is insulting to him and his game. Even if he plays 30+ MPG, starting vs not starting him could easily be the difference between him being happy and him being disgruntled and wanting out.

I think the minutes are a bigger deal to him, even though I think he should be starting. I don't think it's that big of a deal to him to come off the bench.

[No Koko]

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

Yes it does matter. These guys are not robots or players in NBA 2k19, they care about their own careers and a guy like TJ Warren is definitely pissed and embarrassed about being labeled a "bench player." It is insulting to him and his game. Even if he plays 30+ MPG, starting vs not starting him could easily be the difference between him being happy and him being disgruntled and wanting out.

I think the minutes are a bigger deal to him, even though I think he should be starting. I don't think it's that big of a deal to him to come off the bench.

Starting vs. coming off the bench is a huge deal to 99.9% of players. Players care A LOT about being in the starting lineup whether it is in elementary school, middle school, high school, college or pros. I guarantee you TJ Warren cares.

[No Koko]

https://theathletic.com/613378/2018/10/26/about-42000-shots-how-t-j-warren-found-long-range-improved-his-game/

"Warren, who was the Suns’ second-leading scorer last season behind Devin Booker, is still adjusting to the idea of coming off the bench this year."

“Obviously it’s not ideal for him, ” David West said.


Wow, imagine that. He is a human being with emotions and not a computer. Why make a good player disgruntled for no reason?

[darealjuice]

https://theathletic.com/613378/2018/10/26/about-42000-shots-how-t-j-warren-found-long-range-improved-his-game/

"Warren, who was the Suns’ second-leading scorer last season behind Devin Booker, is still adjusting to the idea of coming off the bench this year."

“Obviously it’s not ideal for him, ” David West said.


Wow, imagine that. He is a human being with emotions and not a computer. Why make a good player disgruntled for no reason?

Maybe you should post the entire quote instead of cherry picking it to fit your narrative?

[lilfishi22]

Or maybe Igor simply talked to him that he needs him in the second unit to have more balanced lineups. The team collapses immediately after the starters go to the bench, what do you expect will happen once Warren becomes a starter ? Go down 30 instead of 20 in the second quarter most probably.

As for the time he should not get less than 30 mins.

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

Yes it does matter. These guys are not robots or players in NBA 2k19, they care about their own careers and a guy like TJ Warren is definitely pissed and embarrassed about being labeled a "bench player." It is insulting to him and his game. Even if he plays 30+ MPG, starting vs not starting him could easily be the difference between him being happy and him being disgruntled and wanting out.

You can't keep spouting BS without being called out for some evidence.

Show me something concrete other than your armchair psychologist opinion

[No Koko]

I don't think it matters a ton whether he's starting or not. He has value in both lineups but he has no value if he isn't playing. Whether he's starting or not, he should be getting a minimum of 30mpg.

Yes it does matter. These guys are not robots or players in NBA 2k19, they care about their own careers and a guy like TJ Warren is definitely pissed and embarrassed about being labeled a "bench player." It is insulting to him and his game. Even if he plays 30+ MPG, starting vs not starting him could easily be the difference between him being happy and him being disgruntled and wanting out.

You can't keep spouting BS without being called out for some evidence.

Show me something concrete other than your armchair psychologist opinion

"Obviously it's not ideal for him." -David West.

Obviously.

Do you actually think NBA players don't care about starting?