Alex Len

[MilotheSlayer]

He also played 4 years in college and then played major minutes overseas last year and is older than Len. He just came into the league more seasoned.

Still need more of a sample size.

I wouldn't say he's more seasoned than Len. 4 years of college ball and a season overseas in my opinion doesn't equate to Len's almost 4 years in the NBA. Granted his rookie year was cut short. With what he's shown it scares me to pay him based on potential still, and while I do want him to stay in PHX, paying him what market value will be absolutely terrifies me.

I said he "came into the league more seasoned than Len..." not necessarily that he was more seasoned right now.

We just have no idea what market value will be until he hits the market and his value is determined. Being mostly a bench guy or a starter with limited minutes, may not see a huge market for him given the fact that there seem to be a lot of centers.

But I'm not really talking about paying him for potential as much as to be a solid rim protecting/rebounding big. This he is already good at. We don't need him for offense.

Apologies, I thought we were talking about their current production.

[GMATCallahan]

How long do you think Chandler is going to be productive or even be in the NBA? Do you want to sign him to ANOTHER contract after his current one? Or draft another center who could take 3-5 years to develop, if a guy we draft develops at all?

I think that our starting frontcourt needs to be Bender and Chriss. Chriss can defend a lot of centers already, and after the summer he is gonna be stronger.

I want Williams on the roster next season absolutely for sure. He is a local guy who is a monster rebounding and hustling...we don't have another player like that on the team.

With him on the roster I would be comfortable with Bender and Chriss starting the game because we will have a total different player waiting on the bench if we need more rebounding and strength in the paint. And we will have Dudley at the PF position too.

I really don't care too much if we have Chandler or Len on the roster for next season. Both are good enough to play some minutes coming from the bench and both have been ealthy all season long. We just need to pick one.

I don't see any problem with one of them on the team for insurance, but I want to start and play Chriss and Bender big minutes to provide great spacing, mobility and better passing to the team.

That lineup would just get killed on the boards. Those guys will definitely both have to get better at rebounding to start together in the front court. I'd love for that to happen, and it might since they were both so raw coming in.

Yeah, I want Chriss and Bender to eventually be the starting forwards, flanking a true center. One of them (Chriss, probably) can eventually serve as a center in smaller, space-maximizing specialty lineups later in the game, but as I noted in the historical thread, Phoenix has not constituted an above-average defensive club since 2003. That fact needs to change, and the best way to change it is to feature height and length at both forwards spots, in addition to a true center.

And I like the idea of Warren as a guy who can provide scoring with a second unit.

All that is a ways away, as Warren will surely begin next season as the starting small forward, with Bender coming off the bench. And perhaps Warren will remain the starting small forward for years to come, with Bender becoming a Toni Kukoc-style Sixth Man. But either way, the Suns are not going to improve defensively if they play too small, and given the skill-sets and versatility of Chriss and Bender, Phoenix could feature old-school height and length at both forward spots without sacrificing speed, athleticism, and three-point shooting.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think that our starting frontcourt needs to be Bender and Chriss. Chriss can defend a lot of centers already, and after the summer he is gonna be stronger.

I want Williams on the roster next season absolutely for sure. He is a local guy who is a monster rebounding and hustling...we don't have another player like that on the team.

With him on the roster I would be comfortable with Bender and Chriss starting the game because we will have a total different player waiting on the bench if we need more rebounding and strength in the paint. And we will have Dudley at the PF position too.

I really don't care too much if we have Chandler or Len on the roster for next season. Both are good enough to play some minutes coming from the bench and both have been ealthy all season long. We just need to pick one.

I don't see any problem with one of them on the team for insurance, but I want to start and play Chriss and Bender big minutes to provide great spacing, mobility and better passing to the team.

That lineup would just get killed on the boards. Those guys will definitely both have to get better at rebounding to start together in the front court. I'd love for that to happen, and it might since they were both so raw coming in.

Yeah, I want Chriss and Bender to eventually be the starting forwards, flanking a true center. One of them (Chriss, probably) can eventually serve as a center in smaller, space-maximizing specialty lineups later in the game, but as I noted in the historical thread, Phoenix has not constituted an above-average defensive club since 2003. That fact needs to change, and the best way to change it is to feature height and length at both forwards spots, in addition to a true center.

And I like the idea of Warren as a guy who can provide scoring with a second unit.

All that is a ways away, as Warren will surely begin next season as the starting small forward, with Bender coming off the bench. And perhaps Warren will remain the starting small forward for years to come, with Bender becoming a Toni Kukoc-style Sixth Man. But either way, the Suns are not going to improve defensively if they play too small, and given the skill-sets and versatility of Chriss and Bender, Phoenix could feature old-school height and length at both forward spots without sacrificing speed, athleticism, and three-point shooting.

I wish I could see this so clearly, but I can't. Bender can switch extremely well, but he's not a guy I would want to start at SF. Neither is Chriss. Which means Bender is either a sixth man or our starting center (or Chriss is our starting center).

I have no idea how we'll deal with it. Ideally, Bender can bulk up enough to guard centers. Because yo, he's got range on his jumper, and his release is quick. That floor would spread.

I think the vision is ultimately that we play Bender 30 MPG off the bench, finishing games with our version of the Death Lineup, featuring Chriss at the 5. As far as starting forwards go, however, I agree that Warren and Chriss are essentially locked into those spots next season.

[rsavaj]

Problem with Bender at SF is that it kinda kills his main advantage playing against bigs, which is his speed and agility. Dude can outmaneuver most PFs/Cs but he looks downright slow when you move him to a wing spot. It'd be awesome if he could turn into our gigantic SF of the future, but so far he profiles best as a big IMO.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

"I hope Alex and BK both end up on the Spurs at the end of this summer, so they can burst forth out of their shells and help maintain the Spurs' dominance into the early 2020s." - sunsbum

[nevetsov]

I'd like to sign Len to a reasonable deal and flip him, along with another asset (we have plenty) to get a modest upgrade at the C spot.

Not necessarily someone better, but definitely more consistent. And they also have to be age appropriate for our core.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. I have been in favor of resigning Len to a reasonable contract this summer. However, if we can sign a better center for similar money, would that basically be a trade? I would not have a problem with that if we could upgrade that position.

[bwgood77]

OK. I have been in favor of resigning Len to a reasonable contract this summer. However, if we can sign a better center for similar money, would that basically be a trade? I would not have a problem with that if we could upgrade that position.

I guess you have to define better. Do you want an offensive center? For blocks and rebounds, he ranks very high, which has been shown quite a bit. They just need to utilize him for what he is, and not use him much offensively, which we don't really need. A rotation of him and Williams works well. Both foul at a high rate so they can't play 30+ minutes much, but they both are elite block/rebound guys...like top 10 according to the stuff kennydorglas has shown. The centers that are clearly better are not going anywhere, and if there were any on the market, they would get paid more.

[DaleyBlind]

Dont see Bender ever being main stay at SF, he might get spot minutes there every now and then. He projects a big.
Im also willing to show Len the door now.

[sunsbum]

"I hope Alex and BK both end up on the Spurs at the end of this summer, so they can burst forth out of their shells and help maintain the Spurs' dominance into the early 2020s." - sunsbum

THIS IS FAKE NEWS!!

[GMATCallahan]

Problem with Bender at SF is that it kinda kills his main advantage playing against bigs, which is his speed and agility. Dude can outmaneuver most PFs/Cs but he looks downright slow when you move him to a wing spot. It'd be awesome if he could turn into our gigantic SF of the future, but so far he profiles best as a big IMO.

... reminds me of an exchange between CBS' James Brown and Tommy Heinsohn as they called winner-take-all Game Five of the 1990 Western Conference First Round between the Suns and Jazz in Salt Lake City. After Tom Chambers drew a shooting foul ahead of the pack on the fast break in the first quarter, Heinsohn stated, "That's when he's at his best," which prompted the following dialogue:

Brown: Tom, why has he not been able to get out on the break in this series?

Heinsohn: Well, I think ... Thurl Bailey's a guy that's a step quicker. He's [Chambers] an outstanding power forward, but because of [Kurt] Rambis, he matches up as the quick forward, and not a very fast one at that. So Bailey's able to stay with him.

The previous season, '88-'89, the Suns started Chambers at small forward and Armon Gilliam at power forward for the bulk of the season. Then, sometime after the All-Star break, Cotton Fitzsimmons supplanted Gilliam in the starting lineup with small forward Tyrone Corbin, as Chambers became the power forward. When the Suns lost Corbin in the 1989 Expansion Draft, they initially returned to the Chambers-Gilliam combination before trading Gilliam to Charlotte for Kurt Rambis in December 1989. Either way, Chambers spent most of the '89-'90 season as the Suns' starting small forward, with great success—although the Suns were not as fast as they had been the previous season with Corbin and Chambers starting together. By December 1990, however, Fitzsimmons felt that the Suns needed another reconfiguration and thus they acquired Xavier McDaniel to start at small forward, with Chambers again becoming the starting power forward. As the coach notes in this TNT halftime report from January 23, 1991, the trade "will allow Tom Chambers now to move inside, and guard big people, rather than have to run around and chase those small forwards all over the league."

Watch on YouTube

But I actually feel that Criss could match up with other small forwards, and twenty years ago, most teams would have probably played him at that spot routinely. (Nineteen seasons ago, Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, and even Tim Duncan often matched up at small forward.) Yes, the NBA has changed since then, but Criss possesses great speed and leaping ability on the fast break, he certainly is more of a three-point shooter than Warren, he handles the ball well enough, and he possesses the agility, lateral quickness, and length to defend small forwards.

Warren and Criss will be the starting forwards next season (certainly at the start of the year) and perhaps for the foreseeable future. But if I were Earl Watson, I would not hesitate to experiment and explore all options and lineup combinations. One advantage to playing players of similar sizes is that you render many "cross matches" irrelevant or virtually nonexistent, which should improve a team's defensive efficiency.

[garrick]

"Big men take time" but yet Alan Williams can come in and play significant minutes at short notice and average a double double?

Some players just have a good basketball instinct. Sauce is one, as he knows how to use his body and get into positions that give him an advantage despite his limited physical tools. Its obvious Sauce has been taught well from youth and understands the game.

Len on the other hand looks like he learnt how to play basketball by reading a textbook.

He also played 4 years in college and then played major minutes overseas last year and is older than Len. He just came into the league more seasoned.

Williams has only really played well against teams without terrible defensive bigs off the bench (Kanter) or teams with injured bigs (Horford, Zeller). He did not play well against Memphis (-16) or Mahinmi who had a +38, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and 7 steals while Williams fouled out.

Still need more of a sample size.

Williams is just so challenged vertically I think he would be a liability against teams with athletic bigs and Len would be the better Center on defense.

I don't think the dude has even dunked once yet and he's certainly been in position to do so his lack of explosiveness is not going to help against the likes of the Hassan Whiteside or Rudy Goberts of the league, don't get me wrong I like the guy but if he's your starting center for 82 games a season we will be in a huge hole defensively.

Len would be fine if he just concentrated on easy baskets but he doesn't seem to be in the right place at the right time and he still seems a bit weak in his legs as he gets easily pushed out of position and struggles to finish in the paint.

[GMATCallahan]

Hmm. I think Williams is a lock considering his ties, fit and value so it comes down to Chandler or Len. I think the answer relies upon what Len wants and if we are truly going to compete for a title next year or not.

Is that a trick question?

But I understand what you mean in terms of Chandler.

If the Suns could dump Knight's contract, I could see them bringing three centers into the start of next season. Either way, however, attempting to shed Chandler's contract this summer would make sense.

[GMATCallahan]

Noel, Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Pachulia, Olynyk, Baynes, Bogut. They are all FA's and would all be better choices for a starter than Len. Several are UFA's.

With his age and history of injuries, Bogut does not strike me as a fit for Phoenix at all; I would rather keep Len instead. Pachulia's age and lack of upside mean that he too does not make as much sense as Len. Olynyk is a good and versatile offensive big man, but he is not going to provide Len's rim protection, shot blocking, or rebounding.

Mason Plumlee is intriguing and could be a good fit, but he is more than three years older than Len.

As with most everything, matters will largely come down to money.

[NTB]

“Huge,” the 7-foot-1 center, the fifth overall pick of the 2013 NBA draft, said that morning. “It’s my contract year, so it’s a huge stretch. I just have to show everybody I can be a starting center in this league. I got an opportunity, I just have to prove it.”

A few weeks ago, during his weekly radio show, Earl Watson was asked about Len’s progress. The Suns' second-year coach started talking about opportunity and how it seldom comes when people expect and the importance of being ready at all times. “And to me,” Watson concluded, “the best definition of being ready has been Alan Williams.”

“Big Al’s just been playing great,” Watson said. “He’s earned those minutes.”

As a result, Len is playing just a minute more on average than he did before the All-Star break. His per-game production has been nearly identical – 7.5 points before the break and 7.5 after; 6.4 rebounds before the break, 6.5 after. (Len's per-36 minute overall numbers of 13.7 points and 11.7 rebounds remain strong.)

The hip issue was bothersome. Nothing new, but something Len had battled all season. He first hurt it against New Orleans before Christmas. Then he did it again in practice before the team left for Mexico City and again two weeks ago against the Lakers.

“Three different times in the same spot,” said Len, who needed two games to recover.

“Big guys in this league, either you develop and shoot the 3 or you become a great rebounder," Watson said. “If you can dominate the boards like Tyson did, it kind of makes it hard for a team to go small. But (overall) it’s a different game.”

“Alex Len is a capable corner 3-point shooter," Watson said, “he just has to get comfortable shooting it and he has to practice it. That’s where the confidence will come from.”

[Saberestar]

“Alex Len is a capable corner 3-point shooter," Watson said, “he just has to get comfortable shooting it and he has to practice it. That’s where the confidence will come from.”

Oh nooo... Len shooting threes? He can not make mid range jumpers with his feet set and we want him shooting threes now?

Well, weird things has happened before. Brook Lopez and Marc Gasol are amazing from distance this season and they didn't shoot from there before. So there is a chance. A really small chance.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

“Alex Len is a capable corner 3-point shooter," Watson said, “he just has to get comfortable shooting it and he has to practice it. That’s where the confidence will come from.”

Oh nooo... Len shooting threes? He can not make mid range jumpers with his feet set and we want him shooting threes now?

Well, weird things has happened before. Brook Lopez and Marc Gasol are amazing from distance this season and they didn't shoot from there before. So there is a chance. A really small chance.

Unfortunately, there's a big difference from the top of the three point line to the corners for big men - the former is much more useful. Centers can get the ball at the top within the flow of the offense, and if they miss a three from there, they can still get back on D. At the corners you're furthest from your own basket. You need your rim protector to get back.

Alex's true achilles is his inability to put the ball on the deck. Where he gets it, there he is. He's still an NBA player, but I think he's more of a situational player - a defensive piece to stick on other bigs. Not a starter.

[jcsunsfan]

OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

1. Free agent. Greg Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Nerlens Noel, Z. Pachulia, K. Olynyk, Aaron Baynes, Andrew Bogut. I don't think Plumlee or Noel will be obtainable.

2. Trade. Hmmm. Andre Drummond?

3. Draft. Would have to trade into the draft or trade down to get more picks. Bam maybe?

4. Promote from within. Williams. I like Williams, but I am not sure he is a starting caliber center. He is a great back up. Chriss is best as a pf. I could see Bender as a part time center some time in the future, but that is way off.

Len might make the best sense.

[Villalobos]

Derrick Favors is an option. He's had a bad year with injuries and only has one year left on his deal so you could potentially get him cheap this offseason. Maybe Miami's 2018 pick with added lottery protection.

The injuries are a little worrying though, especially next to Bledsoe.

[Sunsss]

OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

Khem Birch.