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Alex Len

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Re: Alex Len 

Post#301 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:37 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

1. Free agent. Greg Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Nerlens Noel, Z. Pachulia, K. Olynyk, Aaron Baynes, Andrew Bogut. I don't think Plumlee or Noel will be obtainable.

2. Trade. Hmmm. Andre Drummond?

3. Draft. Would have to trade into the draft or trade down to get more picks. Bam maybe?

4. Promote from within. Williams. I like Williams, but I am not sure he is a starting caliber center. He is a great back up. Chriss is best as a pf. I could see Bender as a part time center some time in the future, but that is way off.

Len might make the best sense.


I don't disagree. The spot will be Bender's if he (or Marquese) can defend opposing centers.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#302 » by Villalobos » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:44 pm

I'm starting to wonder if Len will even get a big offer. People will point to Plumlee and Mozgov, but IIRC those were the Bucks and the Lakers betting against themselves like idiots. No one else offered those guys anything close to that.

The Nets are the main worry, if they strike out on every other RFA/UFA. Here's a list of RFAs:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/rfa/

I think they'd rather spend big on Mason Plumlee and Mirotic. Those are two whose teams might not match. Maybe JaMychal Green and Jonathan Simmons too.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#303 » by Saberestar » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:46 am

jcsunsfan wrote:OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

1. Free agent. Greg Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Nerlens Noel, Z. Pachulia, K. Olynyk, Aaron Baynes, Andrew Bogut. I don't think Plumlee or Noel will be obtainable.

2. Trade. Hmmm. Andre Drummond?

3. Draft. Would have to trade into the draft or trade down to get more picks. Bam maybe?

4. Promote from within. Williams. I like Williams, but I am not sure he is a starting caliber center. He is a great back up. Chriss is best as a pf. I could see Bender as a part time center some time in the future, but that is way off.

Len might make the best sense.

First option:
Trade for Drummond. I would trade Bledsoe and Chandler for him. He is not perfect but he is one of the best C in the league and he is only 23.

Second option:
If it is not possible to get Drummond, play our youngsters since the beginning of the season. We can not be worse than with Chandler this year, so trade him to a contender and start Chriss and Bender together. Draft a big at #33 (Adebayo or Thomas Bryant) to fill the roster and sign Big Sauce to play at least 20 mpg coming from the bench.

I would sign Len on that second option to give great depth to our team IF his salary is not crazy and we have tons of cap space after trading Knight and Chandler.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#304 » by Mulhollanddrive » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:40 am

If our plan pans out we'll pay 3 rookies 30% each from 2020 onwards.

So we have alot of cap available for other pieces like Len, but ideally expiring before the above happens.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#305 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:46 pm

Saberestar wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

1. Free agent. Greg Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Nerlens Noel, Z. Pachulia, K. Olynyk, Aaron Baynes, Andrew Bogut. I don't think Plumlee or Noel will be obtainable.

2. Trade. Hmmm. Andre Drummond?

3. Draft. Would have to trade into the draft or trade down to get more picks. Bam maybe?

4. Promote from within. Williams. I like Williams, but I am not sure he is a starting caliber center. He is a great back up. Chriss is best as a pf. I could see Bender as a part time center some time in the future, but that is way off.

Len might make the best sense.

First option:
Trade for Drummond. I would trade Bledsoe and Chandler for him. He is not perfect but he is one of the best C in the league and he is only 23.

Second option:
If it is not possible to get Drummond, play our youngsters since the beginning of the season. We can not be worse than with Chandler this year, so trade him to a contender and start Chriss and Bender together. Draft a big at #33 (Adebayo or Thomas Bryant) to fill the roster and sign Big Sauce to play at least 20 mpg coming from the bench.

I would sign Len on that second option to give great depth to our team IF his salary is not crazy and we have tons of cap space after trading Knight and Chandler.


Drummond looked pretty bad playing against us a few days ago. Being that bad at free throws is kind of amazing.

Regarding FAs, I hope there's a Willie Reed/Willie Hernangomez/Dewayne Dedmon/Tarik Black out there for us to scoop up. Mike Muscala might be a solid pickup. I'd give up value to grab Chinanu Onuaku. IDK. Starting C is an open roster spot - applications are being accepted.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#306 » by Saberestar » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:01 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
jcsunsfan wrote:OK. Simple question. If not Len, who?

1. Free agent. Greg Monroe, Mason Plumlee, Nerlens Noel, Z. Pachulia, K. Olynyk, Aaron Baynes, Andrew Bogut. I don't think Plumlee or Noel will be obtainable.

2. Trade. Hmmm. Andre Drummond?

3. Draft. Would have to trade into the draft or trade down to get more picks. Bam maybe?

4. Promote from within. Williams. I like Williams, but I am not sure he is a starting caliber center. He is a great back up. Chriss is best as a pf. I could see Bender as a part time center some time in the future, but that is way off.

Len might make the best sense.

First option:
Trade for Drummond. I would trade Bledsoe and Chandler for him. He is not perfect but he is one of the best C in the league and he is only 23.

Second option:
If it is not possible to get Drummond, play our youngsters since the beginning of the season. We can not be worse than with Chandler this year, so trade him to a contender and start Chriss and Bender together. Draft a big at #33 (Adebayo or Thomas Bryant) to fill the roster and sign Big Sauce to play at least 20 mpg coming from the bench.

I would sign Len on that second option to give great depth to our team IF his salary is not crazy and we have tons of cap space after trading Knight and Chandler.


Drummond looked pretty bad playing against us a few days ago. Being that bad at free throws is kind of amazing.

Regarding FAs, I hope there's a Willie Reed/Willie Hernangomez/Dewayne Dedmon/Tarik Black out there for us to scoop up. Mike Muscala might be a solid pickup. I'd give up value to grab Chinanu Onuaku. IDK. Starting C is an open roster spot - applications are being accepted.

Not sure if we saw the same game. He gave them 18 points, 18 rebounds and two blocks in just 28 minutes. And he altered a lot of shots around the rim.

Regarding those other options at FA, I prefer Len over all of those players. They are not good enough to invest time and money on them.

Dedmon is a solid role player, I like him but he is gonna be paid and he is older and not better than Len.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#307 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:11 pm

Saberestar wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
Saberestar wrote:First option:
Trade for Drummond. I would trade Bledsoe and Chandler for him. He is not perfect but he is one of the best C in the league and he is only 23.

Second option:
If it is not possible to get Drummond, play our youngsters since the beginning of the season. We can not be worse than with Chandler this year, so trade him to a contender and start Chriss and Bender together. Draft a big at #33 (Adebayo or Thomas Bryant) to fill the roster and sign Big Sauce to play at least 20 mpg coming from the bench.

I would sign Len on that second option to give great depth to our team IF his salary is not crazy and we have tons of cap space after trading Knight and Chandler.


Drummond looked pretty bad playing against us a few days ago. Being that bad at free throws is kind of amazing.

Regarding FAs, I hope there's a Willie Reed/Willie Hernangomez/Dewayne Dedmon/Tarik Black out there for us to scoop up. Mike Muscala might be a solid pickup. I'd give up value to grab Chinanu Onuaku. IDK. Starting C is an open roster spot - applications are being accepted.

Not sure if we saw the same game. He gave them 18 points, 18 rebounds and two blocks in just 28 minutes. And he altered a lot of shots around the rim.

Regarding those other options at FA, I prefer Len over all of those players. They are not good enough to invest time and money on them.

Dedmon is a solid role player, I like him but he is gonna be paid and he is older and not better than Len.


You make a decent point about Drummond - no matter how bad I think he looks, he still gets boards and gives you an option inside. It's just pretty clear why, despite his stats, his minutes totals are so low, and his team doesn't win. IDK.

I agree that none of those FAs are worth "investing" in. I'm not advocating for that. I was looking at potential stand-ins. If Len can be had at a discount, we can continue to develop him while simultaneously seeking his replacement. While he's pretty much unbearable on offense, he does provide rim protection, which very few players do. At a reasonable price, we could simply keep him around with the understanding that he is not "the future" at that spot. Just a useful big who can hold the spot down until he's supplanted. I'm fine with that. But note that that's all we would want out of those players I listed - a capable stand-in, waiting to be replaced.

I'm hoping we're able to land one of Fultz or Ball in this draft. I'm hoping, further, that McD is able to turn Bled-Knight-Chandler into real value, preferably in the form of some additional 2018/19/20 lotto balls. If Philly is ready to make a run, maybe they're our trade partner. I could see them having interest in those guys.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#308 » by Sunsss » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:33 pm

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Re: Alex Len 

Post#309 » by starbosa10 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:27 am

Think we should let him walk
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#310 » by bwgood77 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:11 am

starbosa10 wrote:Think we should let him walk


I'll still be surprised if we do, for nothing, barring a huge contract. He still plays well, particularly with rebounding and blocks when he gets minutes.

Those who watch the games, at least enough to vote on which players do well, show evidence of this, other than ones who have their minds made up against him and sometimes other players such as Warren.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#311 » by Saberestar » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:10 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
starbosa10 wrote:Think we should let him walk


I'll still be surprised if we do, for nothing, barring a huge contract. He still plays well, particularly with rebounding and blocks when he gets minutes.

Those who watch the games, at least enough to vote on which players do well, show evidence of this, other than ones who have their minds made up against him and sometimes other players such as Warren.

Yeah, he has played better for the last five games (he rested previously two games with a hip injury).
In the last three he has been solid against three of the best C in the league: Drummond, Whiteside and Brook Lopez.

Those are his averages in the last five games:

9.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 1.6 blocks in 25 minutes.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#312 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:01 pm

Saberestar wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
starbosa10 wrote:Think we should let him walk


I'll still be surprised if we do, for nothing, barring a huge contract. He still plays well, particularly with rebounding and blocks when he gets minutes.

Those who watch the games, at least enough to vote on which players do well, show evidence of this, other than ones who have their minds made up against him and sometimes other players such as Warren.

Yeah, he has played better for the last five games (he rested previously two games with a hip injury).
In the last three he has been solid against three of the best C in the league: Drummond, Whiteside and Brook Lopez.

Those are his averages in the last five games:

9.8 points, 9.2 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 1.6 blocks in 25 minutes.


It's been nice to see him outplaying Alan. Ten days ago, I thought Alex was toast. Once again, I'm back on the fence. It is worth recognizing some positives with keeping Alex:

#1 - He's cheaper than he would have been in last year's FA market
#2 - He's a rare rim protector. I've said this many times - there just aren't many of them. Neither Tyson nor Alan is one.
#3 - That whole, Bigs take a long time thing. Alex is still young. He'll continue to get bigger, and at some point, he may figure out who he is on offense.
#4 - He's a good person and teammate. So we can expect that if we draft a project big to play behind him, he won't turn into a Brandon Knight.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#313 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:25 pm

I hope we resign Len. I know most don't like him here but he's a decent big. He'll never be an all star but I don't think we need one from the center position. He does well contesting shots and rebounding which is the most important thing from a center. His shot is decent when he is facing the basket. His post up game leaves something to be desired but then, just don't feed him the in post. He sets a screen better than any of our other players and is a decent passers. He's only been in the league for 4 years (and was hurt a majority of his first). His percentages are mostly up again this year and he still hasn't really been given the minutes he needs. I also think playing with a pass first PG helps him and I can see that at times with Ulis (see the Miami game where he was actually thrown some high passes for once).

I don't see a better alternative on the horizon or in free agency. If we want to draft another center next year I'm ok with it but they'll again be on a rookie salary for 4 years so I see no problem paying Len now until that rookie developed themselves.

I like Chandler and the leadership he brings but I think he really needs to go. I have no problem running with Len starting and Williams coming off the bench next year. Chandler seems to be the odd man out even though Watson loves him and the team loves his leadership. He is a turn style on defense who rarely contests shots and looks to just be about getting his numbers in rebounds each game.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#314 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:49 pm

Again. I think we should keep him unless:

1. The price to keep him is outrageous (north of $13 mil)
2. We have a better young option to fill his spot.

There is no point in letting him walk if we don't have a better option.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#315 » by Fo-Real » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:21 pm

I really wish you could teach a guy aggression and heart. His hands are just rancid, and his basketball iq comes into question sometimes. There are countless times that you watch a player on our team about to take a shot, you see Alex just watch him, watch the flight of the ball, and WATCH IT COME DOWN IN SOMEONE ELSES HANDS!! Unlike Tyson, Alan, Quese and others, his feet dont move, he dose not even try to jockey for a spot to get in a better position for the rebound, and on defense when people drive to the rim, you can actually see the moment he realizes he should try to slide over to block the shot, his reaction time is just too slow. He is like playing x box with bad connection. We need to check his damn ping!! SOMEONE IS LAGGING ALEX, PLEASE STOP!!!
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#316 » by Saberestar » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:38 pm

Fo-Real wrote:I really wish you could teach a guy aggression and heart. His hands are just rancid, and his basketball iq comes into question sometimes. There are countless times that you watch a player on our team about to take a shot, you see Alex just watch him, watch the flight of the ball, and WATCH IT COME DOWN IN SOMEONE ELSES HANDS!! Unlike Tyson, Alan, Quese and others, his feet dont move, he dose not even try to jockey for a spot to get in a better position for the rebound, and on defense when people drive to the rim, you can actually see the moment he realizes he should try to slide over to block the shot, his reaction time is just too slow. He is like playing x box with bad connection. We need to check his damn ping!! SOMEONE IS LAGGING ALEX, PLEASE STOP!!!

:lol: So true!
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#317 » by starbosa10 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:55 am

bwgood77 wrote:
starbosa10 wrote:Think we should let him walk


I'll still be surprised if we do, for nothing, barring a huge contract. He still plays well, particularly with rebounding and blocks when he gets minutes.

Those who watch the games, at least enough to vote on which players do well, show evidence of this, other than ones who have their minds made up against him and sometimes other players such as Warren.


That's a fair assessment! I guess for me it depends on the price, wouldn't pay him 13-15 a year
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#318 » by Bogyo » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:52 am

starbosa10 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
starbosa10 wrote:Think we should let him walk


I'll still be surprised if we do, for nothing, barring a huge contract. He still plays well, particularly with rebounding and blocks when he gets minutes.

Those who watch the games, at least enough to vote on which players do well, show evidence of this, other than ones who have their minds made up against him and sometimes other players such as Warren.


That's a fair assessment! I guess for me it depends on the price, wouldn't pay him 13-15 a year


Same here, but I'll add that I think I'd rather pay him 13 than 20something for Drummond. Just my 2c.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#319 » by bigfoot » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:28 pm

The question we need to answer is Alex Len a legit starter at the 5 spot. I don't believe so because his defensive and rebounding game isn't good enough to make up for his lack of offense. I don't think we should pay Alex any thing more than backup dollars and certainly we should not match a wild ass offer made by another team.

I'm happy running with Chandler and Williams next year with small amounts of Chriss and Bender at the 5.
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Re: Alex Len 

Post#320 » by Walt_Uoob » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:48 pm

Yeah Len at $13m/yr would be exactly what Chandler is going to make next year. That's a fine price for him. I'd bet we match anything up to $15m or so. If we can keep Len in that range and also get Williams to a good deal, we have a C glut but with less of the ego issues we had with our PG glut in the past, so we'd be in a good position to field offers without having to cave. You want a budget backup C who won't hurt your team while your starter rests or gets injured? Give us a pick or a prospect for Big Sauce. You want a proven vet for your playoff push who won't be on your cap much longer? Pick or prospect for Chandler. Athletic rim protector who still has room to improve and was just signed to a long-term deal? Then we have something in stock for that too! Don't want to pay full price for any of those options? No problem, we'll keep them all! One stop shopping!

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