RealGM

Hey guys as a fellow Suns fan I made a video breakdown video of the Suns uptempo offense from 2006. Let me know what you remembered from it and thanks for watching.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktO2CWwZUs[/youtube]

"Mike DAntoni, angry as usual"

LOL

nice job. great trip down memory lane. suns' offense is different now, but still fun to watch.

hey guys, I was wondering, could somebody compare ssol offense with the offense we're running now. Becasuse they're still both very high pace but it seems a bit different.

SunsFever wrote:hey guys, I was wondering, could somebody compare ssol offense with the offense we're running now. Becasuse they're still both very high pace but it seems a bit different.

I think that’s an interesting one to think about. Here’s my take:

SSOL took the league by storm. Everyone had Shaq-goggles on at the time, but the ridiculous success of SSOL opened up new ways of thinking. Now the entire league has adopted some of D’Antoni’s principles (although rarely quite as aggressively as D’Antoni). But you see a lot more faster paced, a lot more 3-point shooting, a lot more emphasis on stretch-4s, etc.

The current Suns crew is doing a lot of D’Antoni-style things, but not quite as aggressively as the SSOL crew, and it’s nowhere near as unique now. For example, according to basketball-reference.com numbers, the ’05-06 team had the exact same pace as the ’13-14 team, but the ’05-06 team was MUCH faster relative to the rest of the league. Same thing with 3-pointers.

Pace

2005-2006
Suns – 95.8 (#1)
Median – 90.9
1 team 94.0 or faster
13 teams slower than 90.0

2013-2014
Suns – 95.8 (#8)
Median – 93.6
14 teams 94.0 or faster
1 team slower than 90.0

3-Point Attempts

2005-2006
Suns – 2097 (#1)
Median – ~1380
2 teams >1800 attempts
11 teams <1200 attempts

2013-2014
Suns – 2055 (#4)
Median – ~1800
15 teams >1800 attempts
1 team <1200 attempts

So a lot of similarities, but not as unique relative to the rest of the league. The one wrinkle, though, that is unique with the current crew is going all-in on dual point guards. A few teams have done that at times, but we're pretty unique in really, explicitly embracing that style. It feels like a D'Antoni-style idea, but the SSOL teams didn't really consistently do that. (Barbosa sorta filled that role at times.)

Los Soles wrote:

SunsFever wrote:hey guys, I was wondering, could somebody compare ssol offense with the offense we're running now. Becasuse they're still both very high pace but it seems a bit different.

I think that’s an interesting one to think about. Here’s my take:

SSOL took the league by storm. Everyone had Shaq-goggles on at the time, but the ridiculous success of SSOL opened up new ways of thinking. Now the entire league has adopted some of D’Antoni’s principles (although rarely quite as aggressively as D’Antoni). But you see a lot more faster paced, a lot more 3-point shooting, a lot more emphasis on stretch-4s, etc.

The current Suns crew is doing a lot of D’Antoni-style things, but not quite as aggressively as the SSOL crew, and it’s nowhere near as unique now. For example, according to basketball-reference.com numbers, the ’05-06 team had the exact same pace as the ’13-14 team, but the ’05-06 team was MUCH faster relative to the rest of the league. Same thing with 3-pointers.

Pace

2005-2006
Suns – 95.8 (#1)
Median – 90.9
1 team 94.0 or faster
13 teams slower than 90.0

2013-2014
Suns – 95.8 (#8)
Median – 93.6
14 teams 94.0 or faster
1 team slower than 90.0

3-Point Attempts

2005-2006
Suns – 2097 (#1)
Median – ~1380
2 teams >1800 attempts
11 teams <1200 attempts

2013-2014
Suns – 2055 (#4)
Median – ~1800
15 teams >1800 attempts
1 team <1200 attempts

So a lot of similarities, but not as unique relative to the rest of the league. The one wrinkle, though, that is unique with the current crew is going all-in on dual point guards. A few teams have done that at times, but we're pretty unique in really, explicitly embracing that style. It feels like a D'Antoni-style idea, but the SSOL teams didn't really consistently do that. (Barbosa sorta filled that role at times.)

Thank you

Great read.

It backs up what I have been trying to say forever.

Los Soles wrote:

SunsFever wrote:hey guys, I was wondering, could somebody compare ssol offense with the offense we're running now. Becasuse they're still both very high pace but it seems a bit different.

I think that’s an interesting one to think about. Here’s my take:

SSOL took the league by storm. Everyone had Shaq-goggles on at the time, but the ridiculous success of SSOL opened up new ways of thinking. Now the entire league has adopted some of D’Antoni’s principles (although rarely quite as aggressively as D’Antoni). But you see a lot more faster paced, a lot more 3-point shooting, a lot more emphasis on stretch-4s, etc.

The current Suns crew is doing a lot of D’Antoni-style things, but not quite as aggressively as the SSOL crew, and it’s nowhere near as unique now. For example, according to basketball-reference.com numbers, the ’05-06 team had the exact same pace as the ’13-14 team, but the ’05-06 team was MUCH faster relative to the rest of the league. Same thing with 3-pointers.

Pace

2005-2006
Suns – 95.8 (#1)
Median – 90.9
1 team 94.0 or faster
13 teams slower than 90.0

2013-2014
Suns – 95.8 (#8)
Median – 93.6
14 teams 94.0 or faster
1 team slower than 90.0

3-Point Attempts

2005-2006
Suns – 2097 (#1)
Median – ~1380
2 teams >1800 attempts
11 teams <1200 attempts

2013-2014
Suns – 2055 (#4)
Median – ~1800
15 teams >1800 attempts
1 team <1200 attempts

So a lot of similarities, but not as unique relative to the rest of the league. The one wrinkle, though, that is unique with the current crew is going all-in on dual point guards. A few teams have done that at times, but we're pretty unique in really, explicitly embracing that style. It feels like a D'Antoni-style idea, but the SSOL teams didn't really consistently do that. (Barbosa sorta filled that role at times.)

Los Soles! First time I'm seeing you here since Frye left. I thought you might have became a more active member of the Magic board.

Seeing as how he's starting to break down already, aren't you glad we didn't waste $32 million on him?

SF88 wrote:Los Soles! First time I'm seeing you here since Frye left. I thought you might have became a more active member of the Magic board.

That's cute that you were thinking about me. I wasn't aware that I'd made such an impact on you. I'm sorry to admit it's not reciprocal: I haven't given you a passing thought.


Another interesting difference between SSOL and the current team: frontcourt composition.

SSOL's main frontcourt: Marion at 6' 6.5" and Stat at 6' 8.5"
Last season's main frontcourt: Frye at 6' 9.5" and Plumlee at 6' 10.5"

D'Antoni wanted a quickness/skills advantage at the four and five, and he was absolutely comfortable sacrificing size to that end. So he took a traditional 4 and made him the 5, and he took a traditional 3 and made him a 4. The Suns organization has been uncomfortable with the idea of fielding a small frontcourt ever since (ya know, 'cause that whole gimmick brought 'em their best 3-year run ever). The spacing was critical for D'Antoni, but he also valued the versatility of a true perimeter player at the 4: someone who could slash, attack the basket, run the floor, etc. If he had last season's roster, he would have played Tucker or Marcus at the 4 a lot; probably more than Frye. He may have actually started Markieff at the five (with Tucker or Marcus starting at the four) and moved Plumlee to more of a Kurt Thomas role off the bench.

SSOL said, "You go big...we'll go small. We can't really guard your size, but you can't keep pace with us. We think we'll end up with the efficiency advantage." We usually were right. Just not against Pop.

Last year's team said, "We'll match your size...but we'll still spread you out and run like it's 2005."

HUGE PROBLEM WITH THAT: When we spread teams out but stay big, we're daring them to go small on us. With SSOL, we loved it when teams went small against us, because we were better at it than everyone else. But ever since Marion left, we've been slaughtered when teams go small against us.

(Case in point: April 2 against the Clips. Frye-Plumlee units are trashing Blake-DeAndre units. Suns up 12 late in the 3rd. Clips go small with Dudley at the four. DeAndre never comes into the game in the 4th. Clips outscore the Suns by 17 in the 4th.)

Loving the analysis, Soles. Your last point is very, very important.

During SSOL, we had the utmost confidence that we'd make more of our shots than the other team and that they couldn't keep up. Unfortunately, our lack of rebounding hurt because the shots that they were missing, they would get second chances on. The vast, vast majority of any troubles we may have had during those years were due to this issue. Not only did they get second chance points, but we couldn't rebound and run off their misses and get points in transition like we did so well otherwise.

Those teams were so, so, so special.

If there was a way to buy archived NBA games, I would purchase pretty much everything from 2004-2010. Get on it NBA.