Backcourt suffering with confidence, spacing, and roles

[rsavaj]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/ ... gic-thomas

What's the solution, guys?

[phrazbit]

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/11/6/7166489/phoenix-suns-point-guard-rotation-bledsoe-dragic-thomas

What's the solution, guys?

Its too soon to make any drastic changes, but they need to reel in Green. He is chucking like his life depends on it. Spacing and ball movement are clearly a problem and he kills both of those. When he is hot he is a great asset, but so far this year he has only gotten really hot once (the Laker game), and if his shots are not falling he sucks a butt.

They are really playing poorly in half court sets. Markieff needs to become a legit pick and roll threat, that would help free up our guards in the half court. Right now its a lot of trying to break teams down off the dribble or Green forcing his own shots.

At center there is no easy solution. Plumlee is bad Plumlee right now, and as much as people clamor for Len he is not a starting caliber player yet either, with how quickly he racks up fouls I think using him as a starter would backfire. He'd spend the entire game in foul trouble or playing like a wieny.

[bwgood77]

Start with Bledsoe, Dragic, PJ, Kieff and Plumlee. If the guards struggle or don't share the ball, sub in IT for Dragic. If Plumlee struggles, possibly sub in Mook for Plumlee.

Near the end of the first or to start the second, bring in Dragic, Green, Mook (or leave him in if he already came in), Tolliver and Len. This provides three guys who can spread the floor and a presence in the middle.

Eventually possibly play TJ at 3, Mook at 4 in the second unit if Tolliver continues to struggle.

I don't think there is EVER a need to have all three point guards out there...they are all best with the ball in their hands.

[lilfishi22]

Tolliver/Mook need to get into the habit of setting more screens and being confident with their spot up shooting. Tolliver can't hit the broad side of a barn right now so he's essentially useless and Mook needs to shoot the rock more often from the 3.

Or Shavlick becomes a consistent 3PT shooter. Which isn't likely.

[Revived]

In before trade back for Frye suggestions.

[JTrain]

Use Tolliver as a stretch four when there is only one PG in the game.

Dragic or Bledsoe or IT
Green
Tucker
Tolliver
Plumlee or Len

Bledsoe and Plumlee need to get back their chemistry. Once Len's finger heals he start to hold on to those feeds down low and become an asset offensively.

Multiple point guards work best when the ball is being moved around. Each point guard should get a chance to set up something he likes and if it doesn't fall into place, pass it off.

Hornacek will figure out better lineups over the next month.

[JTrain]

Hydra has more than three heads.

[lilfishi22]

Hydra has more than three heads.

Wrong mythical creature

[RaisingArizona]

Goran is sucking.

Tolliver, Shav, and Plumlee should be in the dleague.

Len isn't ready.

It's pretty simple to me.

[JTrain]

Hydra has more than three heads.

Wrong mythical creature

I would say, to keep the dragon part, they should have gone with Ghidorah, the three-headed monster from the Godzilla series. The idea for Ghidorah was inspired by Hydra, but Hydra generally had 7-9 heads and the Godzilla creator wanted something more reasonable. So he decided on three.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC4rMWD7MXw[/youtube]

[JTrain]

Actually that would make a sweet avatar:

[JTrain]

Tolliver can't hit the broad side of a barn right now so he's essentially useless

He's only attempted ten jump shots, all threes, and made four of ten. That's 40% three point shooting. (He had two shots blocked under the basket by the Lakers.)

He's a great shooter and he will end up with the highest 3P% on the team. He just needs to find his place and get more attempts.

[batsmasher]

The solution. Hmmmmmmm.

Fixing Goran: More PnR/PnPs with Keef. Give Tolliver some more minutes (Frye took time to get his feet under him in this system, Tolly needs the same respect). Lastly, start running some plays through Goran!! Off-ball Goran is no-where as good as on-ball Goran.

Fixing Bled: Start Len. Bled's got it drilled him that Plum is 'his guy', and is forcing the issue with Plum. They have great synergy, however synergy means jack all when the guy you're passing the ball to is struggling to look like a competent bench warmer.

Fixing IT: Play him more exclusively with the bench unit. He benefits from off-ball players like PJ/Mook/Green more than he does playing with the other two heads of the beast. He's playing like a hog atm (which will work while he keeps shooting a ridiculous %) but once the dust settles we'll see he wants his own 20 points every game so he can go and get them with the bench unit. Hog it up all you like, it's probably going to be more effective than what the opposition bench does.

It makes sense why the Kings had cold feet on IT. He'll break the Slash Bros if he plays too much with them.

While you're at it McD, dangle Ennis for a semi-competent big stuck on a bench. Arthur/Bass/Mahinmi type, or aim a little higher: Dieng/EDavis/Ezeli.

[bwgood77]

Use Tolliver as a stretch four when there is only one PG in the game.

Dragic or Bledsoe or IT
Green
Tucker
Tolliver
Plumlee or Len

Bledsoe and Plumlee need to get back their chemistry. Once Len's finger heals he start to hold on to those feeds down low and become an asset offensively.

Multiple point guards work best when the ball is being moved around. Each point guard should get a chance to set up something he likes and if it doesn't fall into place, pass it off.

Hornacek will figure out better lineups over the next month.

Stretch 4 is more important when they have 2 pgs imo, because they all like to drive to the hoop so the less clogged the paint is with defenders, the better.

[RunDogGun]

Tolliver/Mook need to get into the habit of setting more screens and being confident with their spot up shooting. Tolliver can't hit the broad side of a barn right now so he's essentially useless and Mook needs to shoot the rock more often from the 3.

Or Shavlick becomes a consistent 3PT shooter. Which isn't likely.

Isn't Tollver shooting 40% from three right now?

[JTrain]

Use Tolliver as a stretch four when there is only one PG in the game.

Dragic or Bledsoe or IT
Green
Tucker
Tolliver
Plumlee or Len

Bledsoe and Plumlee need to get back their chemistry. Once Len's finger heals he start to hold on to those feeds down low and become an asset offensively.

Multiple point guards work best when the ball is being moved around. Each point guard should get a chance to set up something he likes and if it doesn't fall into place, pass it off.

Hornacek will figure out better lineups over the next month.

Stretch 4 is more important when they have 2 pgs imo, because they all like to drive to the hoop so the less clogged the paint is with defenders, the better.

Yeah, that might be right. My original thought was that, if you have Dragic and Tolliver running pick and pops, you want another catch and shoot three guy at the 2, so Green might work better than Bledsoe.

[bwgood77]

Use Tolliver as a stretch four when there is only one PG in the game.

Dragic or Bledsoe or IT
Green
Tucker
Tolliver
Plumlee or Len

Bledsoe and Plumlee need to get back their chemistry. Once Len's finger heals he start to hold on to those feeds down low and become an asset offensively.

Multiple point guards work best when the ball is being moved around. Each point guard should get a chance to set up something he likes and if it doesn't fall into place, pass it off.

Hornacek will figure out better lineups over the next month.

Stretch 4 is more important when they have 2 pgs imo, because they all like to drive to the hoop so the less clogged the paint is with defenders, the better.

Yeah, that might be right. My original thought was that, if you have Dragic and Tolliver running pick and pops, you want another catch and shoot three guy at the 2, so Green might work better than Bledsoe.

Well ideally we want as many guys who can stretch the floor when needed if it helps.

[MathiasPW]

It's been 5 games. The "problem" and the Tolliver 3Pt % both mean nothing.

Shots need to fall. I don't think the low FG % is due to lack of spacing, it's just bad shooting, something they probably didn't work on early in the season, giving more focus on defense (which has been pretty good, by the way) and physical conditioning.

Random Meaningless Stat:
First 5 Games 2013/14 Season: 122 3PT Attempted, 34,2% Converted. 3W/2L
First 5 Games 2014/15 Season: 120 3PT Attempted, 31,0% Converted. 3W/2L

We are shooting just as many threes, and converting at very similar rate, than at the start of last season. Don't think spacing is an issue.

[Zelaznyrules]

It's been 5 games. The "problem" and the Tolliver 3Pt % both mean nothing.

Shots need to fall. I don't think the low FG % is due to lack of spacing, it's just bad shooting, something they probably didn't work on early in the season, giving more focus on defense (which has been pretty good, by the way) and physical conditioning.

Random Meaningless Stat:
First 5 Games 2013/14 Season: 122 3PT Attempted, 34,2% Converted. 3W/2L
First 5 Games 2014/15 Season: 120 3PT Attempted, 31,0% Converted. 3W/2L

We are shooting just as many threes, and converting at very similar rate, than at the start of last season. Don't think spacing is an issue.

Those stats really don't tell us anything about spacing. Go to the first game this season, at around the 8:15 mark of the first quarter. Watch what happens when Dragic gets the ball in the corner. There are 5 defenders in position to challenge his drive. Now go back to last season and watch any of the first five games. You won't see the same thing. Teams are zoning us far more often this season. I'm starting to wonder though if perhaps they'd be doing the same thing even if Frye were here? It really is quite possible that teams took a look at our offense during the offseason and watched how Dantoni tore us apart in that late season matchup last year. But regardless of why it's happening, there is less room for our penetrators to penetrate.

[MathiasPW]

The stats don't mean anything but the one play you mention does....right.

Best stat for spacing would be assisted 3 PT shots, but I don't have these.

Still, it's 5 games. Sample size matters.