Suns are the worst team in the NBA in points allowed in the paint

Revived · Post #1 » by **Revived** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:25 am

Steve Albert mentioned this during the Rockets-Suns game and I didn't actually think it would be true but after looking it up myself, wow it actually is.

http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/opp ... 0FGM&dir=1

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... t-per-game

This is honestly one of the main reasons why I think the Suns should let Markieff be the 6th man like was last season while acquiring a starting caliber PF who is capable of defending. Losing to the Rockets is acceptable because their a very good team but giving up 64 pts in the paint to a Rockets team without Dwight Howard is not.

Protecting the rim is so, so important. Len is developing into a decent shot blocker but Kieff is still a huge liability on that end. Not just him, overall even the guys off the bench for us allow opposing players to take turns throwing down monster dunks or layups.

Its gotta get addressed by Hornacek and McD for both the short term and the future.

DaleyBlind · Post #2 » by **DaleyBlind** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:28 am

No surprise, look who is starting at PF.

JTrain · Post #3 » by **JTrain** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:00 am

I love Keef as the 6th man. I just hope he isn't too proud after starting for this long and getting that contract to take that role sometime in the future.

I think (hope) McD is fully aware of this problem, and considering which assets we will use and which opportunity we will have to get a traditional, quality, defensive PF.

thamadkant · Post #4 » by **thamadkant** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:01 am

Suns system doesnt really care about the interior defense, Len and Plumlee are very capable and its not their fault generally, because the 4 other guys are suppose to make penetration hard. As suns were getting back to defense, the 2 other forwards were behind the ball still Josh Smith open lane, Len had his sights on Motie the whole time.. but no LH/RH paint defense what so ever.

Revived · Post #5 » by **Revived** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:47 am

Nobody helps the helper on the Suns team.

Mr Puddles · Post #6 » by **Mr Puddles** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:29 am

Suns are also allowing the most second-chance points (15.6) and baskets at the rim (3.6) http://www.nba.com/lakers/150119_10things

You can't allow elite teams to dominate you in the paint and get second chance opportunities, and expect a win. This current team has a lot of potential, but these are issues that have to be addressed if it wants to take the next step forward.

schnakenpopanz · Post #7 » by **schnakenpopanz** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:09 pm

one of the reasons why the 3pg crap will not work.

Wannabe MEP · Post #8 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:58 pm

~Numbers since Dec. 15~

DaleyBlind wrote:No surprise, look who is starting at PF.

DefRtg of Bled-Dragic-Tucker-Markieff-Len: 92.5

schnakenpopanz wrote:one of the reasons why the 3pg crap will not work.

DefRtg of IT-Bled-Dragic: 97.0

The problem is not the starters, nor small-ball. The problem is the bench -- specifically Green and Marcus:

DefRtg of Green-Marcus: 117.9

LukasBMW · Post #9 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:26 pm

Points in the paint and rebounding win championships. We need to improve both.

Scubetrolis · Post #10 » by **Scubetrolis** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:24 pm

Dragic
Bledsoe
Markief
Wright
Len

We would get some rebounds with that lineup

Wannabe MEP · Post #11 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:48 pm

LukasBMW wrote:Points in the paint and rebounding win championships. We need to improve both.

Since Dec 15 the suns are...

2nd in points scored within five feet of the rim
3rd in FG% within five feet of the rim
13th in Reb% at 50.2, ahead of Memphis, LAC, Spurs, GSW, etc.

LukasBMW · Post #12 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:15 pm

Los Soles wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Points in the paint and rebounding win championships. We need to improve both.

Since Dec 15 the suns are...
2nd in points scored within five feet of the rim
3rd in FG% within five feet of the rim
13th in Reb% at 50.2, ahead of Memphis, LAC, Spurs, GSW, etc.

Good stats. But our schedule since then has been against may lackluster teams AND includes Alex Len in the starting lineup.

Len has helped us make improvements, but we still have a long way to go.

Our biggest problem is that when defenses lock down and Bledsoe/Dragic/IT suddenly cannot get to the rim or get calls, we have no way to score inside. This is why we have stretches were we give up 10+ unanswered points and blow leads. We don't have a big C or PF who can catch the ball on the block and get us a sure 2 points.

We used to have this with Barkley which is why we almost won the finals.

To a lesser extent, we had this briefly with Amare before he became a puzzy and stopped attacking the rim after he got his mac contract.

Throw someone like Al Jefferson on this team and suddenly we have a true post scorer and 3 elite penetrating guards. Now points in the paint will be consistent...even when defense locks down.

LukasBMW · Post #13 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:17 pm

FYI, this is simple math.

The lowest percentage shot in basketball is the 16+ foot 2 point shot.

Teams that lock down the paint and defend the 3 point shot well force opponents to take the lowest percentage shot in basketball...the long 2. These teams win the most games.

We always lose when teams force us to shoot long 2's.

Wannabe MEP · Post #14 » by **Wannabe MEP** » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:26 pm

LukasBMW wrote:Our biggest problem is that when defenses lock down and Bledsoe/Dragic/IT suddenly cannot get to the rim or get calls, we have no way to score inside.

I think we're scoring efficiently enough period. For the season on the whole, the Suns are 5th out of current playoff-projected teams for both points <5ft and FG% <5ft. Both of those numbers are easily good enough to be elite. Overall, the offense is 5th for the season, and 3rd since that Dec. 15 date.

I don't think our problem is offense. I think our problem is defense.

I'm gonna keep banging the same drum here for a while:

Our starters are getting it done, both offensively and defensively.
Our small-ball lineups are getting it done, both offensively and defensively.
Our bench crew is getting it done offensively...but they are ATROCIOUS on defense.

Fix the bench defensively, and we become truly dangerous.

IT -- minus on defense
Green -- HUGE minus on defense
Marcus -- HUGE minus on defense
Wright -- minus on defense
Plumlee -- slight positive on defense; nowhere near good enough to make up for the other four

I think we gotta get either Green or Marcus out of the regular rotation and replace with a plus defender. Either trade...or just get Bullock in there.

DaleyBlind · Post #15 » by **DaleyBlind** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:57 am

Los Soles wrote:~Numbers since Dec. 15~

DaleyBlind wrote:No surprise, look who is starting at PF.

DefRtg of Bled-Dragic-Tucker-Markieff-Len: 92.5

schnakenpopanz wrote:one of the reasons why the 3pg crap will not work.

DefRtg of IT-Bled-Dragic: 97.0

The problem is not the starters, nor small-ball. The problem is the bench -- specifically Green and Marcus:

DefRtg of Green-Marcus: 117.9

Yeah that says nothing about Markeiff Morris

bigfoot · Post #16 » by **bigfoot** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:33 am

Just looking at the defensive real plus minus for individuals of our team

Starters
Bledsoe (1.68 / Number 5 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Dragic (-2.05 / Number 86 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Tucker (1.85 / Number 7 of 85 in the the league at SF position)
Markieff (2.80 / Number 6 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Len - (2.42 / Number 11 of 76 in the league at C position)

Tucker, Bledsoe, and Len are what we expected ... all good defenders. Dragic's numbers can be expected. He is a smaller SG guarding bigger wingmen. Tough match up for him. Most folks aren't realizing that Kief plays pretty good defense ... best on the team and 19 out of 464 players).

Bench
Thomas (-1.60 / Number 59 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Green (-4.11 / Number 104 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Marcus (-2.51 / Number 81 of 85 in the league at SF position)
Wright (-2.05 / Number 94 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Plumlee (0.84 / Number 36 of 76 in the leage at C position)

The bench is a freaking disaster. Green, Marcus, and Wright are nearly the worst defenders in the league at their positions. To put this in perspective there are 464 players in the league. Green is number 463, Marcus is number 436, and Wright is number 417. Our bench is not a very defensive oriented group. Green is sad because he has size and athleticism. He's the scarecrow of the NBA.

Spoiler:

DaleyBlind · Post #17 » by **DaleyBlind** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:54 am

bigfoot wrote:Just looking at the defensive real plus minus for individuals of our team

Starters
Bledsoe (1.68 / Number 5 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Dragic (-2.05 / Number 86 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Tucker (1.85 / Number 7 of 85 in the the league at SF position)
Markieff (2.80 / Number 6 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Len - (2.42 / Number 11 of 76 in the league at C position)

Tucker, Bledsoe, and Len are what we expected ... all good defenders. Dragic's numbers can be expected. He is a smaller SG guarding bigger wingmen. Tough match up for him. Most folks aren't realizing that Kief plays pretty good defense ... best on the team and 19 out of 464 players).

Bench
Thomas (-1.60 / Number 59 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Green (-4.11 / Number 104 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Marcus (-2.51 / Number 81 of 85 in the league at SF position)
Wright (-2.05 / Number 94 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Plumlee (0.84 / Number 36 of 76 in the leage at C position)

The bench is a freaking disaster. Green, Marcus, and Wright are nearly the worst defenders in the league at their positions. To put this in perspective there are 464 players in the league. Green is number 463, Marcus is number 436, and Wright is number 417. Our bench is not a very defensive oriented group. Green is sad because he has size and athleticism. He's the scarecrow of the NBA.

Spoiler:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs[/youtube]

ok, thats a better way to look at it. Wow im speechless Keiff is ranked that high.

MrMiyagi · Post #18 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:50 am

DaleyBlind wrote:
Los Soles wrote:~Numbers since Dec. 15~

DaleyBlind wrote:No surprise, look who is starting at PF.

DefRtg of Bled-Dragic-Tucker-Markieff-Len: 92.5

schnakenpopanz wrote:one of the reasons why the 3pg crap will not work.

DefRtg of IT-Bled-Dragic: 97.0

The problem is not the starters, nor small-ball. The problem is the bench -- specifically Green and Marcus:

DefRtg of Green-Marcus: 117.9

Yeah that says nothing about Markeiff Morris

Except it totally does... You said our starting power forward was the problem, the stats show he really isn't... :crazy:

MrMiyagi · Post #19 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:53 am

bigfoot wrote:Just looking at the defensive real plus minus for individuals of our team

Starters
Bledsoe (1.68 / Number 5 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Dragic (-2.05 / Number 86 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Tucker (1.85 / Number 7 of 85 in the the league at SF position)
Markieff (2.80 / Number 6 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Len - (2.42 / Number 11 of 76 in the league at C position)

Tucker, Bledsoe, and Len are what we expected ... all good defenders. Dragic's numbers can be expected. He is a smaller SG guarding bigger wingmen. Tough match up for him. Most folks aren't realizing that Kief plays pretty good defense ... best on the team and 19 out of 464 players).

Bench
Thomas (-1.60 / Number 59 of 81 in the league at PG position)
Green (-4.11 / Number 104 of 104 in the league at SG position)
Marcus (-2.51 / Number 81 of 85 in the league at SF position)
Wright (-2.05 / Number 94 of 100 in the league at PF position)
Plumlee (0.84 / Number 36 of 76 in the leage at C position)

The bench is a freaking disaster. Green, Marcus, and Wright are nearly the worst defenders in the league at their positions. To put this in perspective there are 464 players in the league. Green is number 463, Marcus is number 436, and Wright is number 417. Our bench is not a very defensive oriented group. Green is sad because he has size and athleticism. He's the scarecrow of the NBA.

Spoiler:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nauLgZISozs[/youtube]

Good post. Everybody around here has been sh*tting on Kieff, saying we need to trade him when he's a damn good power forward.

MrMiyagi · Post #20 » by **MrMiyagi** » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:54 am

Los Soles wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Our biggest problem is that when defenses lock down and Bledsoe/Dragic/IT suddenly cannot get to the rim or get calls, we have no way to score inside.

I think we're scoring efficiently enough period. For the season on the whole, the Suns are 5th out of current playoff-projected teams for both points <5ft and FG% <5ft. Both of those numbers are easily good enough to be elite. Overall, the offense is 5th for the season, and 3rd since that Dec. 15 date.

I don't think our problem is offense. I think our problem is defense.

I'm gonna keep banging the same drum here for a while:

Our starters are getting it done, both offensively and defensively.
Our small-ball lineups are getting it done, both offensively and defensively.
Our bench crew is getting it done offensively...but they are ATROCIOUS on defense.
Fix the bench defensively, and we become truly dangerous.

IT -- minus on defense
Green -- HUGE minus on defense
Marcus -- HUGE minus on defense
Wright -- minus on defense
Plumlee -- slight positive on defense; nowhere near good enough to make up for the other four
I think we gotta get either Green or Marcus out of the regular rotation and replace with a plus defender. Either trade...or just get Bullock in there.

Soles, man, you do number crunching for a living or are you just one damn committed NBA fan? Either way, keep up the good work.