RealGM

I suppose this could be asked in the off season thread, but I'm curious to see what you guys think. I'm kinda out of the loop.

Do you feel there's a deal needed to be done, shifts in the roster/management, that would benefit us in the long run that needs to be done this off season?

I won't get into best case scenario as much as realistic scenarios. People fantasize a little too much about things that will never happen.

But I was thinking of starting a new thread to mention a couple of things.

First of all, I don't think McD or even Hornacek or that tied to a 2 pg system. I think McD is more about asset building, and he thinks locking up Knight into a deal before the cap rise is a good asset...he obviously likes him as a player, but he will be a pretty good asset too....when he signs the contract, 10-15 people around here will complain that we signed him for too much, but a year or two from now, it will seem like a pretty good deal if we still have him. Teams are going to want guys locked into contracts at pre-cap-raise rates.

I will say I was surprised that he did trade for Knight though, because I thought he was a draft guy and would value the pick more, and he also picked Ennis, so that was a hefty price to pay....but he must like Knight, and for those that are high on Warren, Goodwin, and Len, why wouldn't you be high on the other guy he is obviously high on, in Knight?

Last summer was a failure. But it's not for a lack of McD trying. Should he have gone for some mid tier guys earlier instead of waiting on LeBron and whoever he wanted? Easy answer in hindsight. But does Boston get Ray Allen and KG by settling for stuff because getting stars is unrealistic? Now I don't think we were nearly in that type of situation...but you have to ask yourself...do you want your GM to swing for the fences or go for more realistic pieces early? The Thomas deal was a good deal, and a good asset....many in Boston think they won the trade, but all McD did was sign him and got a first round pick for him. He basically just signed a future first rounder in the offseason with cap space for a half year. But it screwed up chemistry and McD will learn from that (I hope).

I really think McD is mostly about accumulating assets...if he can't get a star, get the guys you can lock into contracts so they are trade-able...teams are much more likely to trade for guys if they are under contract for a few years and not a rental you hope to re-sign. Plus you have to match contracts and stars have big contracts.

Hornacek plays the hand he is dealt. I seriously doubt he thinks he has the ideal roster. I think in hindsight it sucks that as a coach he overachieved so much last year that people's expectations for this roster are to get into the playoffs in the west, and we were right there anyway with this young team for awhile, despite losing key players. Does he make questionable decisions? Yes, but all coaches do, and young coaches should get more leeway, particularly with young teams.

As for this offseason, a superstar trade would be nice, but chances of that are minimal. People mock me for joking about getting a top three pick, but that is more likely than trading for a superstar or top 4 pick which many talk about. None of those are likely though. But the good thing about the lottery (to those who don't think it is fixed) is that it's a random chance......our number has the same chance of coming up in a draw as any other number.....of course teams have more numbers, but only one gets pulled out....the random factor gives me a little more hope than a far fetched trade, despite the fact that getting a top three pick is also far fetched.

Basically, if our players can improve in the offseason, stay healthy, develop chemistry, our young guys make major leaps, and we nail the draft pick, I will be pretty happy. Would love to deal Marcus Morris.

They talk about vets...I have talked about vets that would be good (Millsap, West, and some others). If we could clear cap space to get someone like that, it might help our team, but I don't think anyone should assume we should make the playoffs next year because the west is full of teams with all stars and experience...not things we have....and it's not the coach or GMs fault since we are rebuilding, and far ahead of the other rebuilding teams that started when we did. Sure, people may say they have better prospects...but that remains to be seen.

Trade Bledsoe (+ pick) for D`Angelo Russell or Justise Winslow.

Trade Morris twins (+ pick) for Noah Vonleh.

There are no superstars (or even stars) available for trade so we should find a way to draft players with star (first/second option) potential. That or trade for an underused sophomore like Vonleh, Hornets will want to make playoffs nest season and Morris bros would help them in the east.

Russell/Winslow, Goodwin, Warren, Vonleh and Len would a be one hell of a foundation for the future, imo.

Trade Bledso for a signed and traded GORAN GODDAMN DRAGIC!!!!

The sad thing is that in Western Conference every team except Nuggets have at least one player that is better than anyone on the Suns. People can blame Hornacek, 2 pg system, Morris's attitude etc but this team just don't have enought talent to make the playoffs in the west.

Damkac wrote:The sad thing is that in Western Conference every team except Nuggets have at least one player that is better than anyone on the Suns. People can blame Hornacek, 2 pg system, Morris's attitude etc but this team just don't have enought talent to make the playoffs in the west.

Who do the Lakers have? And who on the Suns is better than Ty Lawson?

I didn't see much of Ty's game but looking at stats he is better playmaker than Bledsoe but worse defender, rebounder and scorer. Plus Bledsoe is younger and signed for more years so imo worth more than Ty.
Lakers have Kobe. He is a star right?

Ty Lawson can actually command a halfcourt offense and facilitate the pace of a game. I guess he's a defensive liability. But Bled's lackluster decision making, spotty shot selection and turnover proneness almost neutralizes his defensive impact if he's not getting to the hoop effectively. (And he doesn't even get to the line consistenly) When your best player is a superathletic positionless guard your team will lack a identity because it has to play to his strengths and limitations

1. Russell Westbrook: The Human 3D Monster movie, master of triple doubles, the inhuman basketball terror.

2. James Harden: MVP runner-up, a devastating individual scorer who changes the way a defense guards the opponent, best player on the 2-seed in the brutal Western Conference.

3. LeBron James: Is LeBron James.

4. Chris Paul: The Point God, the best pure point guard on Earth, an unbelievable competitor who just lead his team to a victory over the defending champions in one of the best seven-game series ever by hitting the clutch-est of clutch shots on a bad hamstring in Game 7 with one second left.

5. Steph Curry: The MVP, a player who shapes the defense the way no other player, including LeBron does, the best player on the 67-win Golden State Warriors who look unstoppable and have a historic point differential. Rarely played fourth quarters this year due to number of blowouts.

6. John Wall: The best point guard in the Eastern Conference, factoring passing, scoring, defense, skillset, and athleticism -- or at least tied with Kyrie Irving. The best player on the team that has won five straight in the playoffs, All-Star starter, transcendent talent.

The list above is a pretty great set of offensive players, right? That seems like a good subset of guys? Well, if you're wondering where I got that list from, it's a ranking 1-6 of the top players in a stat I call "Points produced." It's not fancy, it doesn't come from some complex formula (though most of the ones that do are far more nuanced and more reliable) and it's brutally simple. It's just "points per game plus points produced by assists per game via the NBA's SportVU data." (I'd rather use per possession, but this is easier.)

In short, the points produced by a player's shooting or passing, combined. It doesn't factor pace, turnovers, field goal attempts, or anything else, it's a pure production stat. But that list is a pretty good top six for the best offensive players in the league.

No. 8 is Damian Lillard. No. 9 is Blake Griffin. No.10 is Kyrie Irving. Great, great, great.

Here's what's interesting.

No. 7? No. 7 on that list of producing the most points per game through scoring and assists is Denver Nuggets point guard Ty Lawson.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... he-nuggets

You know what is unbelievable?

The poll in this article...

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/5/855 ... -ty-lawson

I think if the Kings trade the 6th pick, it's going to be in a package for Ty Lawson. http://sacramento.suntimes.com/sac-spor ... ty-lawson/

bwgood77 wrote:

1. Russell Westbrook: The Human 3D Monster movie, master of triple doubles, the inhuman basketball terror.

2. James Harden: MVP runner-up, a devastating individual scorer who changes the way a defense guards the opponent, best player on the 2-seed in the brutal Western Conference.

3. LeBron James: Is LeBron James.

4. Chris Paul: The Point God, the best pure point guard on Earth, an unbelievable competitor who just lead his team to a victory over the defending champions in one of the best seven-game series ever by hitting the clutch-est of clutch shots on a bad hamstring in Game 7 with one second left.

5. Steph Curry: The MVP, a player who shapes the defense the way no other player, including LeBron does, the best player on the 67-win Golden State Warriors who look unstoppable and have a historic point differential. Rarely played fourth quarters this year due to number of blowouts.

6. John Wall: The best point guard in the Eastern Conference, factoring passing, scoring, defense, skillset, and athleticism -- or at least tied with Kyrie Irving. The best player on the team that has won five straight in the playoffs, All-Star starter, transcendent talent.

The list above is a pretty great set of offensive players, right? That seems like a good subset of guys? Well, if you're wondering where I got that list from, it's a ranking 1-6 of the top players in a stat I call "Points produced." It's not fancy, it doesn't come from some complex formula (though most of the ones that do are far more nuanced and more reliable) and it's brutally simple. It's just "points per game plus points produced by assists per game via the NBA's SportVU data." (I'd rather use per possession, but this is easier.)

In short, the points produced by a player's shooting or passing, combined. It doesn't factor pace, turnovers, field goal attempts, or anything else, it's a pure production stat. But that list is a pretty good top six for the best offensive players in the league.

No. 8 is Damian Lillard. No. 9 is Blake Griffin. No.10 is Kyrie Irving. Great, great, great.

Here's what's interesting.

No. 7? No. 7 on that list of producing the most points per game through scoring and assists is Denver Nuggets point guard Ty Lawson.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... he-nuggets

You know what is unbelievable?

The poll in this article...

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/5/855 ... -ty-lawson

I think if the Kings trade the 6th pick, it's going to be in a package for Ty Lawson. http://sacramento.suntimes.com/sac-spor ... ty-lawson/

LMAO Celts fans are delusional homers. They really think they "robbed" us in that deal not realizing how bad the East must be if IT is good enough to singlehandedly get you into the playoffs as a now fated treadmill team

saintEscaton wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

1. Russell Westbrook: The Human 3D Monster movie, master of triple doubles, the inhuman basketball terror.

2. James Harden: MVP runner-up, a devastating individual scorer who changes the way a defense guards the opponent, best player on the 2-seed in the brutal Western Conference.

3. LeBron James: Is LeBron James.

4. Chris Paul: The Point God, the best pure point guard on Earth, an unbelievable competitor who just lead his team to a victory over the defending champions in one of the best seven-game series ever by hitting the clutch-est of clutch shots on a bad hamstring in Game 7 with one second left.

5. Steph Curry: The MVP, a player who shapes the defense the way no other player, including LeBron does, the best player on the 67-win Golden State Warriors who look unstoppable and have a historic point differential. Rarely played fourth quarters this year due to number of blowouts.

6. John Wall: The best point guard in the Eastern Conference, factoring passing, scoring, defense, skillset, and athleticism -- or at least tied with Kyrie Irving. The best player on the team that has won five straight in the playoffs, All-Star starter, transcendent talent.

The list above is a pretty great set of offensive players, right? That seems like a good subset of guys? Well, if you're wondering where I got that list from, it's a ranking 1-6 of the top players in a stat I call "Points produced." It's not fancy, it doesn't come from some complex formula (though most of the ones that do are far more nuanced and more reliable) and it's brutally simple. It's just "points per game plus points produced by assists per game via the NBA's SportVU data." (I'd rather use per possession, but this is easier.)

In short, the points produced by a player's shooting or passing, combined. It doesn't factor pace, turnovers, field goal attempts, or anything else, it's a pure production stat. But that list is a pretty good top six for the best offensive players in the league.

No. 8 is Damian Lillard. No. 9 is Blake Griffin. No.10 is Kyrie Irving. Great, great, great.

Here's what's interesting.

No. 7? No. 7 on that list of producing the most points per game through scoring and assists is Denver Nuggets point guard Ty Lawson.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... he-nuggets

You know what is unbelievable?

The poll in this article...

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/5/5/855 ... -ty-lawson

I think if the Kings trade the 6th pick, it's going to be in a package for Ty Lawson. http://sacramento.suntimes.com/sac-spor ... ty-lawson/

LMAO Celts fans are delusional homers. They really think they "robbed" us in that deal not realizing how bad the East must be if IT is good enough to singlehandedly get you into the playoffs as a now fated treadmill team

Funny thing is Denver would laugh at such an offer and hang up immediately.

Mine would be getting Dangelo Russell at any price.

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Mine would be getting Dangelo Russell at any price.

It will be interesting to see how he pans out. I'm not quite as high on him as most, but he is probably better than Harden was in college, and that is the comp most people have. The AZ Wildcats D shut him down big time, so that likely altered my opinion to some extent.

Many people keep talking about trading everything for him, but that is simply extremely far fetched. I do understand this is a thread of best case scenario, so it's fine to throw your dream scenario out there.

I guess my best case scenario is that we win the lottery and get the #1 pick, and take Towns and have a huge frontcourt, with Towns having range and good passing skills, and then we trade Marcus Morris for whatever...of course best case is trading him for LeBron...but I will stay within things that are at least possible...so we dump him to a team with cap space that thinks they can use them.

We start Kieff, but work Towns into rotation and basically have a rotation of Len, Towns and Kieff for the frontcourt, each playing 32 minutes. Keep Wright and pay him minutes, especially at the beginning to force Towns to work his game hard to break the lineup but don't wait too long...maybe a handful of games, but keep Wright for insurance of an injury to Len or Towns or Kieff...and also for trade value...we could afford to trade Wright or maybe Kieff (if we feel Towns is ready to start at 4), who I suspect would have great trade value (personally I think he is our best asset due to the depth of point guards in the league).

Personally, I think trading Knight or Bledsoe is extremely unrealistic because of the depth of point guards and Lawson being on the block..that is why I think Kieff is our best trade asset if he gets through the court mess.

We work Goodwin, Bullock and Harvey (Tyler Harvey, our 2nd round pick...she my draft thread post and video if you haven't) ad challenge the players to become the best shooting guard they can.

We start Bledsoe, Knight, Warren, Kieff and Len to start the season, but play Towns, the SG who has earned it and Tucker off the bench and then later in the season, we start Towns and bring Kieff and Tucker off the bench, yet keep one of Bledsoe/Knight in at all times with our sharpshooter who has earned it.

Without the lottery victory, I draft best PF or C with first pick, and find out if Millsap is interested...if so, we dump whoever we need to for cap space, bring him in and start the two guards, Warren, Millsap and Len, with hopefully a good guy big off the bench that we drafted (assuming we had to dump Wright to get Millsap)...along with Kieff and Tucker off the bench, along with whichever SG is hot and one of our PG's.

The thing about having the two PGs is that we need to have one on the floor at all times...people don't seem to view that as a positive and I don't know why...we can still play a traditional 2 30 minutes, and if they are hot, keep them in. It only makes our PG position never a big weakness.

Ryu wrote:Trade Bledsoe (+ pick) for D`Angelo Russell or Justise Winslow.

Trade Morris twins (+ pick) for Noah Vonleh.

There are no superstars (or even stars) available for trade so we should find a way to draft players with star (first/second option) potential. That or trade for an underused sophomore like Vonleh, Hornets will want to make playoffs nest season and Morris bros would help them in the east.

Russell/Winslow, Goodwin, Warren, Vonleh and Len would a be one hell of a foundation for the future, imo.

^ my dream scenario

the Charlotte trade is pretty fair value too imo

(no love for Porzingis though?)

saintEscaton wrote:Ty Lawson can actually command a halfcourt offense and facilitate the pace of a game. I guess he's a defensive liability. But Bled's lackluster decision making, spotty shot selection and turnover proneness almost neutralizes his defensive impact if he's not getting to the hoop effectively. (And he doesn't even get to the line consistenly) When your best player is a superathletic positionless guard your team will lack a identity because it has to play to his strengths and limitations

somewhat true, but I'm still pretty sure Sac would still prefer Bled over Lawson

the Bled/Cousins connection pretty much seals the deal

didn't Sac try to trade the 8th pick/IT for Bled last summer or something?

Mr-Al wrote:

saintEscaton wrote:Ty Lawson can actually command a halfcourt offense and facilitate the pace of a game. I guess he's a defensive liability. But Bled's lackluster decision making, spotty shot selection and turnover proneness almost neutralizes his defensive impact if he's not getting to the hoop effectively. (And he doesn't even get to the line consistenly) When your best player is a superathletic positionless guard your team will lack a identity because it has to play to his strengths and limitations

somewhat true, but I'm still pretty sure Sac would still prefer Bled over Lawson

the Bled/Cousins connection pretty much seals the deal

didn't Sac try to trade the 8th pick/IT for Bled last summer or something?

I don't know about that last thought, but Karl being the coach changes the dynamic here. So does Denver obviously putting Lawson on the block.

I don't think Lawson's all that much better than Bledsoe to be honest.

I agree with bw that SAC will prefer Lawson over Bledsoe due to Lawson's familiarity with Karl. I don't think Kings care about satisfying Cousins by acquiring his friend & former teammate Bledsoe because Cousins may be on the way out himself.

MoBros for Tony Snell, McDermott and filler.

Saberestar wrote:MoBros for Tony Snell, McDermott and filler.

pass

Warren > McDermott

and Snell hasn't shown anything consistently at all

As long as they aren't in prison, the Morri, especially Kieff, are worth much more. You shouldn't sell low anyway

the worst part about this whole thing is that they won't even go to court until after July probably

would have wanted this **** over with before the draft ideally

**** those guys.

SF88 wrote:I don't think Lawson's all that much better than Bledsoe to be honest.

I agree with bw that SAC will prefer Lawson over Bledsoe due to Lawson's familiarity with Karl. I don't think Kings care about satisfying Cousins by acquiring his friend & former teammate Bledsoe because Cousins may be on the way out himself.

I would much rather have Bled over Lawson.

if Cousins was on his way out they would try their hardest to keep that from happening/progressing

So they would absolutely care about satisfying Cousins, it's ridiculous to think that they wouldn't

losing him would set their franchise back for years