Devin Booker

[bwgood77]

He passed A LOT more when he played with Ulis. Probably because he knew he was more likely to get the ball back. He really struggled shooting his first few games with Ulis but shooting like 23% in the first two then 35% or something before his big breakout record game. No, he wasn't really our only shooter. We had quite a few of them until the end of the year when so many people sat. Regardless, ast to shot is an important thing to look at when assessing how much he shares the ball vs shooting..and we would have had more people shooting if he had shared even more, but it's not worth haggling over since I know you like to haggle over minor things. But shot selection is one of the things he could improve upon which would likely help his percentages and if he moved the ball when it's not a great shot, it would help him and the team in the long run.

I would really appreciate it if you didn't make things personal, especially when you are doing exactly what you are charging me with. My point is Booker is a willing passer, and the ball movement would be good with him in the group listed. You can agree, disagree, or go off on a minor point I didn't make like you did, and then claim I'm the one haggling on a minor point.

So, willing passer, or not?

BW...nowhere in there is there any discussion about the team assists as a whole. You are purely stating about the lack of assists from Booker.

The only statement I made was players have to make shots, so assists are a two-pronged stat......then you went all into Booker shooting percent and hurting the team's assists. This/that discussion was not about that.

But go ahead and spin my friend. Instead of saying true, because anyone and their momma would say another player's ability to shoot effects assist, you will muddle up the discussion with something that has nothing to do with the original topic.....and never quit!!!!

It's like you have a hard on for all of Booker's negatives.....even when Run said his numbers were close to Ulis, you said he only passes to Ulis because he knows he is going to give it back....did you ask Devin that?!! Or are you assuming that?

Weak...smh

The whole damn conversation started without mention of Booker...it was...

Ulis, Jackson, Bender lineup means ball movement like whoa.

Droppin Dimes! Dropping Dimes!

Then RunDog added Booker to the conversation and others pointed out his don't look as impressive with the context of how many turnovers he has, how many minutes he played and how many shots he takes. Then you blamed others for him not getting more assists. I pointed out that goes for anyone. I don't think you understood my point and proceeded to go on a tirade.

I do like Booker. I think he has shown he is capable at times of being a good playmaker, particularly later in the season when there seemed to be more team ball movement at all at certain times and a little less iso play.

[RunDogGun]

All I added was that I thought Booker was a willing passer who would work fine in a ball movement group, and used his 70 point game to show he still dropped six dimes even though he had all those points. And then others went all nutty, and still are.

[JMac1]

Wow!! Nash average 50 40 90 for his career!!!

[JMac1]

All I added was that I thought Booker was a willing passer who would work fine in a ball movement group, and used his 70 point game to show he still dropped six dimes even though he had all those points. And then others went all nutty, and still are.

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

[RunDogGun]

All I added was that I thought Booker was a willing passer who would work fine in a ball movement group, and used his 70 point game to show he still dropped six dimes even though he had all those points. And then others went all nutty, and still are.

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

I was thinking the same thing. I haven't come here in a while either. I barely made a compliment to Booker, by saying he is a willing passer, and a mod says it's not worth talking to because I haggle small points. I'm not sure where the heck that came from. But I really don't appreciate that publically by a mod. Zero apology, just kept at it and did exactly what I was charged with.

This escalated for no reason whatsoever.

[thamadkant]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Kobe+Bryant&player_id1_select=Kobe+Bryant&player_id1=bryanko01&y1=1998&player_id2_hint=Devin+Booker&player_id2_select=Devin+Booker&y2=2017&player_id2=bookede01&idx=players

Kobe is a year younger wasnt he?

Also playing behind Eddie Jones.

Kobe also did not have the green light that Booker did last season.


Also... Kobe was a defensive machine back then... he tried and he was good.

Offensively... Kobe was way way more athletic than Booker and was a high flyer.




But today's rules and emphasis on shooting favors Booker....

He just needs to calm down with those Kobe-esque 30 footers and rushed shots. One of Kobe's knocks was that he was selfish when it comes to scoring. And it took having Shaq and a combo of Bynum/Gasol/Odom for him to win...

Suns don't have that luxury of having a prime Shaq and having triple tower all-stars to win.

[Preacherpj]

All I added was that I thought Booker was a willing passer who would work fine in a ball movement group, and used his 70 point game to show he still dropped six dimes even though he had all those points. And then others went all nutty, and still are.

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

You go way overboard with these things IMO, people say something you don't agree with and you go full hyperbole.

Booker has strengths and weaknesses, it's Ok to talk about both.

[JMac1]

All I added was that I thought Booker was a willing passer who would work fine in a ball movement group, and used his 70 point game to show he still dropped six dimes even though he had all those points. And then others went all nutty, and still are.

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

You go way overboard with these things IMO, people say something you don't agree with and you go full hyperbole.

Booker has strengths and weaknesses, it's Ok to talk about both.

Man......go away. You sound like a jilted lover. We have been going back and fourth for a few days now, so obviously you have a bone to pick with me with this weak ass post. Stop jock sniffing and grow up. That was a long ass thread with a lot of talk and you are saying I'm going over board? yet, myself and Rundog are going back and forth with a Mod, but the fault is with me.....that's a bitch move. Weak!! Says a lot about the type of "man" you are.

Edit: you've been put on ignore. Please no one quote this dude!

[Preacherpj]

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

You go way overboard with these things IMO, people say something you don't agree with and you go full hyperbole.

Booker has strengths and weaknesses, it's Ok to talk about both.

Man......go away. You sound like a jilted lover. We have been going back and fourth for a few days now, so obviously you have a bone to pick with me with this weak ass post. Stop jock sniffing and grow up. That was a long ass thread with a lot of talk and you are saying I'm going over board? yet, myself and Rundog are going back and forth with a Mod, but the fault is with me.....that's a bitch move. Weak!! Says a lot about the type of "man" you are.

Edit: you've been put on ignore. Please no one quote this dude!

Wtf???

[Preacherpj]

You go way overboard with these things IMO, people say something you don't agree with and you go full hyperbole.

Booker has strengths and weaknesses, it's Ok to talk about both.

Man......go away. You sound like a jilted lover. We have been going back and fourth for a few days now, so obviously you have a bone to pick with me with this weak ass post. Stop jock sniffing and grow up. That was a long ass thread with a lot of talk and you are saying I'm going over board? yet, myself and Rundog are going back and forth with a Mod, but the fault is with me.....that's a bitch move. Weak!! Says a lot about the type of "man" you are.

Edit: you've been put on ignore. Please no one quote this dude!

Wtf?? I'm the one 'jock-sniffing'?????

[bwgood77]

If you find any positive in Booker's game makes you a homer. So we can't acknowledge his positives without negatives......smh

We know he needs to work on many things, however, he is going in the right direction more than the wrong direction. At least that's what I believe.

Scoring 70 pts with 6 assist is franchise player stuff.... but but but his defense and his passing, but but his shooting percentage and his 3pt percentage but but his usage but but so and so's advanced metric but his poor shot selection but but he isn't long enough to guard so and so, but but .....lmao!

That's why I didn't come to this board for the entire year. Can't say anything positive with someone getting angry.

You go way overboard with these things IMO, people say something you don't agree with and you go full hyperbole.

Booker has strengths and weaknesses, it's Ok to talk about both.

Man......go away. You sound like a jilted lover. We have been going back and fourth for a few days now, so obviously you have a bone to pick with me with this weak ass post. Stop jock sniffing and grow up. That was a long ass thread with a lot of talk and you are saying I'm going over board? yet, myself and Rundog are going back and forth with a Mod, but the fault is with me.....that's a bitch move. Weak!! Says a lot about the type of "man" you are.

Edit: you've been put on ignore. Please no one quote this dude!

We were having a civil argument for the most part. Don't accuse anyone of jock sniffing when you do more of that than anyone. You guys go back and forth with everyone, so don't make accusations against a new solid realistic poster and personally attack him because of his views. We all have opinions and that is fine, but don't go there. I mentioned someone haggling earlier over small details which was not personal just an opinion, but don't go there with a poster keeping it real because you disagree.

[lilfishi22]

I'm with preacherpj here. Nobody is doubting the offensive talent of Booker but why can't we talk about where he can improve, how he can improve and what can be done around him so he can improve.

Nobody is on here saying he has all these weaknesses and he'll never improve. We talk about his weaknesses because we want to be on the same page on what needs to be done in order for him to get to the next level. If dropping 6 dimes in a 70 pt game is all that is required to make you a franchise player then this franchise isn't going anywhere fast.

[DirtyDez]

Kobe was way way more athletic than Booker and was a high flyer.

This is where the comparison stops for me. Kobe was posterizing Yao, Dwight, Ben Wallace, etc... he could blow by defenders and contort his body in the air.

[TOO]

I'm with preacherpj here. Nobody is doubting the offensive talent of Booker but why can't we talk about where he can improve, how he can improve and what can be done around him so he can improve.

Nobody is on here saying he has all these weaknesses and he'll never improve. We talk about his weaknesses because we want to be on the same page on what needs to be done in order for him to get to the next level. If dropping 6 dimes in a 70 pt game is all that is required to make you a franchise player then this franchise isn't going anywhere fast.

You're not allowed to think the golden child needs to get better, don't bring up the fact he's one of the worst defenders in the league, it's totally fine thats fine because he has similar numbers to Kobe. Just completely overlook the fact that the game is played on both ends.

[lilfishi22]

Kobe was way way more athletic than Booker and was a high flyer.

This is where the comparison stops for me. Kobe was posterizing Yao, Dwight, Ben Wallace, etc... he could blow by defenders and contort his body in the air.

Good lord....

Kobe had that elite of elite athleticism.

[RunDogGun]

I'm with preacherpj here. Nobody is doubting the offensive talent of Booker but why can't we talk about where he can improve, how he can improve and what can be done around him so he can improve.

Nobody is on here saying he has all these weaknesses and he'll never improve. We talk about his weaknesses because we want to be on the same page on what needs to be done in order for him to get to the next level. If dropping 6 dimes in a 70 pt game is all that is required to make you a franchise player then this franchise isn't going anywhere fast.

Ok, I'm going to say one last thing and I'm done with this garbage. All I posted was saying that Booker is a willing passer and that he would be another good person to add to the list of players of Ulis, Jackson, and Bender in terms of ball movement. I used the 70 point game as an example, since it was clear the team was getting him the ball to keep shooting and he still dished out more assists than our point guard that game. That's it. I wasn't saying he was a god, or anything, not saying if you don't like him then you suck. In fact when another poster brought up a comment, I said "I respectfully disagree".

The problem I do have, is one of our mods escalated things, with personal insults. I haven't posted here in a while, I didn't call anyone names, nothing like that at all. I feel that if you are a mod, you should be deescalting situations, not insulting posters (while actually doing what he was charging me with). There is really no need for that here, if we are just discussing Booker's willingness to pass. JMac jumped in, Frank jumped in and now another poster. I don't think anyone is saying Booker is "the golden child" or anything that would cause someone to call him names as well.

Overall, I thought we were fans of the Suns, and are well aware of our players' strengths and limitations. I'm fine with discussing those and/or options, but not fine with mods going personal when not met with any hostility. Hopefully that will change, for I was enjoying posting again for the most part until this.

[thamadkant]

that game where he dished 6 assists and scored 70 points... half of those assists were when he was being double teamed and defense were collapsing on him... which is good. He needs to use the threat of hims scoring to free others, but he wasnt making Nash-type passes he just gave it to the open man who hit a shot or layup.


Nonetheless.... Booker is a cornerstone for the suns, but for the Suns to be a good team he needs to be atleast average defensively.

[AtheJ415]

I will go on record as saying I absolutely hate that the Suns are asking and encouraging Booker to be Kobe. Booker should be modeling his game after Harden--not Kobe. Kobe was a talented player no doubt, but he played as a straight up chucker who didn't play within the flow of the offense and his defense did fall off as he got older. Why, in the days of advanced stats, would you want a guy to have Kobe's mentality to force shots and to take difficult shots at that is beyond me. Efficiency is the name of the game, and so I would greatly prefer the Suns to push Booker to become a super-facilitator who attacks the rim and gets to the line a ton like Harden. I think he has that foundation and can develop into that if he maxes out his offensive capability. And frankly, that type of offense is more valuable than Kobe's anyways and is a better fit for Booker's skillset.

Also, as others have pointed out, Kobe was more of the high flying athlete than Booker (though many here underrate Booker's athleticism just because he doesn't have a huge vertical. Booker ran a faster lane agility drill than John Wall for God's sake).

[lilfishi22]

I'm with preacherpj here. Nobody is doubting the offensive talent of Booker but why can't we talk about where he can improve, how he can improve and what can be done around him so he can improve.

Nobody is on here saying he has all these weaknesses and he'll never improve. We talk about his weaknesses because we want to be on the same page on what needs to be done in order for him to get to the next level. If dropping 6 dimes in a 70 pt game is all that is required to make you a franchise player then this franchise isn't going anywhere fast.

Ok, I'm going to say one last thing and I'm done with this garbage. All I posted was saying that Booker is a willing passer and that he would be another good person to add to the list of players of Ulis, Jackson, and Bender in terms of ball movement. I used the 70 point game as an example, since it was clear the team was getting him the ball to keep shooting and he still dished out more assists than our point guard that game. That's it. I wasn't saying he was a god, or anything, not saying if you don't like him then you suck. In fact when another poster brought up a comment, I said "I respectfully disagree".

The problem I do have, is one of our mods escalated things, with personal insults. I haven't posted here in a while, I didn't call anyone names, nothing like that at all. I feel that if you are a mod, you should be deescalting situations, not insulting posters (while actually doing what he was charging me with). There is really no need for that here, if we are just discussing Booker's willingness to pass. JMac jumped in, Frank jumped in and now another poster. I don't think anyone is saying Booker is "the golden child" or anything that would cause someone to call him names as well.

Overall, I thought we were fans of the Suns, and are well aware of our players' strengths and limitations. I'm fine with discussing those and/or options, but not fine with mods going personal when not met with any hostility. Hopefully that will change, for I was enjoying posting again for the most part until this.

I wasn't following the whole discussion so I didn't see if a mod esclated things with personal insults but if that happened it definitely isn't right. No one, mod or not, should be using personal insults in any posts.

When I made my comment about the 70pt game and 6 dimes, it wasn't dispute to your point that he was a willing passer because I do think he's a willing passer. It was more as a comment on using that 70pt game to define Booker as a franchise player which JMac was doing.

[RunDogGun]

Well I don't know what makes one a "franchise player", but there aren't many NBA players who score 70 points in a regular season game against a number one seed in the East, and then grab 8 rebounds and six assists. While I agree he is still young and has many things to work on, as JMac also admitted, I don't see how labeling him "sir chucks a lot" like Frank did is a good arguing point as to why Booker isn't a franchise player.