Eric Bledsoe

[Frank Lee]

(did I just defend McDo???)

[RaisingArizona]

I don't know. I don't see it in the NBA GM's job description to coddle players. Running a real life business must be different because you can't trade employees on a whim, but in the NBA, the GM's job is to create a winning culture for years to come. I will agree to disagree with you but I won't ever take Tragic's side of the story. What he did/how he acted would get you canned from most real businesses in real life, IMO.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

:o (did I just defend McDo???)

Do you see a bright light, Frank? Step toward it. Welcome.

[AtheJ415]

Dragic is that you? It's a damn business, man. Nothing is personal in business.

Yeah, the MoBros agree.

IT says hi.

How were the Suns not loyal to IT? By giving him the most money of any team on the free agency market? By moving him when he expressed his desire to start to a place where he got that opportunity under a great coach?

The Suns did absolutely ZERO wrong with their handling of IT and even he says so.

The only person who can claim disloyalty is Goran, who I really don't give a crap about thanks to his tirade out the door and his play since then. The 2 picks we got are much more valuable to us than Goran would be on his current deal.

[itlnsunsfan]

Yeah, the MoBros agree.

IT says hi.

The Suns did absolutely ZERO wrong with their handling of IT and even he says so.

.

IT never said the Suns did nothing wrong with their handling of him. He said he didn't hold a grudge and was grateful for the trade. His words were, "It's like they gave me a Christmas gift. They sent me away. So I thank them."

http://chowderandchampions.com/2017/03/05/boston-celtics-pride-isaiah-thomas-holds-grudge-phoenix-suns/

[gaspar]

This will be another hurdle for McD to get over. He has a history in his short tenure with the Suns of creating uncertainty with his players, especially stars, and in the process making them feel like they are just an asset which affects their play and the locker room.

Dragic is that you? It's a damn business, man. Nothing is personal in business.

As much as you think that attitude to take is what makes you successful, there's whole lot of trust in business you seem to be neglecting. For the journeyman, that might be OK because that's what they are used to but it's not OK to do that to your star player who you hope will TRUST your word when it comes to future dealings. Telling Dragic (in private) they'll move IT to clear the PG log jam, only for him to see nothing happen for 2 months is not keeping your word. At the same time, not telling IT, the guy you rolled the red carpet out for to sign him, that he's getting moved until the last minute to appease Dragic is a terrible way to handle your players. Then doing damage control after trading away Mook and not telling his twin brother, yeah real good move McD. If a guy like TJ sees how you do things, why do you think he would trust us and sign with us long term on a favourable deal?

You're a fool if you really think treating players like that makes you a good GM. Burning bridges publicly and saying, "It's nothing personal, it's just business," is a surefire way for other businesses to never do business with you again.

Soo much BS, especially the underlined part.

[bwgood77]

Dragic is that you? It's a damn business, man. Nothing is personal in business.

As much as you think that attitude to take is what makes you successful, there's whole lot of trust in business you seem to be neglecting. For the journeyman, that might be OK because that's what they are used to but it's not OK to do that to your star player who you hope will TRUST your word when it comes to future dealings. Telling Dragic (in private) they'll move IT to clear the PG log jam, only for him to see nothing happen for 2 months is not keeping your word. At the same time, not telling IT, the guy you rolled the red carpet out for to sign him, that he's getting moved until the last minute to appease Dragic is a terrible way to handle your players. Then doing damage control after trading away Mook and not telling his twin brother, yeah real good move McD. If a guy like TJ sees how you do things, why do you think he would trust us and sign with us long term on a favourable deal?

You're a fool if you really think treating players like that makes you a good GM. Burning bridges publicly and saying, "It's nothing personal, it's just business," is a surefire way for other businesses to never do business with you again.

Soo much BS, especially the underlined part.

I know you were not a Dragic fan, but there is no need to deny the truth. If it isn't the exact truth, it's pretty close. That was pretty clear.

[Zelaznyrules]

As much as you think that attitude to take is what makes you successful, there's whole lot of trust in business you seem to be neglecting. For the journeyman, that might be OK because that's what they are used to but it's not OK to do that to your star player who you hope will TRUST your word when it comes to future dealings. Telling Dragic (in private) they'll move IT to clear the PG log jam, only for him to see nothing happen for 2 months is not keeping your word. At the same time, not telling IT, the guy you rolled the red carpet out for to sign him, that he's getting moved until the last minute to appease Dragic is a terrible way to handle your players. Then doing damage control after trading away Mook and not telling his twin brother, yeah real good move McD. If a guy like TJ sees how you do things, why do you think he would trust us and sign with us long term on a favourable deal?

You're a fool if you really think treating players like that makes you a good GM. Burning bridges publicly and saying, "It's nothing personal, it's just business," is a surefire way for other businesses to never do business with you again.

Soo much BS, especially the underlined part.

I know you were not a Dragic fan, but there is no need to deny the truth. If it isn't the exact truth, it's pretty close. That was pretty clear.

Didn't Goran admit that he was overreacting later on? Granted, he then retracted his retraction after Ryan called him out but that's another story.

Anyway, I don't think there's any doubt that we basically assured Goran that he mattered more than Thomas and if things didn't work out that we'd move Isaiah. And then, it started working out, at least up until the locker room scuffle. I suspect after that incident he once again asked for Thomas to be traded and the front office agreed to do it. Apparently Dragic expected it to happen overnight.

[jcsunsfan]

Yeah, the MoBros agree.

IT says hi.

How were the Suns not loyal to IT? By giving him the most money of any team on the free agency market? By moving him when he expressed his desire to start to a place where he got that opportunity under a great coach?

The Suns did absolutely ZERO wrong with their handling of IT and even he says so.

The only person who can claim disloyalty is Goran, who I really don't give a crap about thanks to his tirade out the door and his play since then. The 2 picks we got are much more valuable to us than Goran would be on his current deal.

St. Goran again. Goran demanded the Suns trade IT or he would not resign. They worked out a trade for IT and then Goran said he would not sign anyway. Goran is no victim. Good riddance. Insecure prima donna.

[bwgood77]

Didn't Goran admit that he was overreacting later on? Granted, he then retracted his retraction after Ryan called him out but that's another story.

Anyway, I don't think there's any doubt that we basically assured Goran that he mattered more than Thomas and if things didn't work out that we'd move Isaiah. And then, it started working out, at least up until the locker room scuffle. I suspect after that incident he once again asked for Thomas to be traded and the front office agreed to do it. Apparently Dragic expected it to happen overnight.

We have no idea on the timing. You think he asked them one day and the next day he flipped out because he hadn't been traded yet. I think they probably told him they are looking to move him weeks or more before and didn't. I don't know what the timing is or what scuffle you are talking about or if you have evidence. All I know is he was approached and asked by the media and spoke about how he felt (about not trusting fo). Yes, later he mentioned he should have kept his thoughts to himself...I don't remember him saying "overreacted" but maybe he did say that, and he may have over reacted. I don't know the details. It doesn't really matter at this point.

[bwgood77]

IT says hi.

How were the Suns not loyal to IT? By giving him the most money of any team on the free agency market? By moving him when he expressed his desire to start to a place where he got that opportunity under a great coach?

The Suns did absolutely ZERO wrong with their handling of IT and even he says so.

The only person who can claim disloyalty is Goran, who I really don't give a crap about thanks to his tirade out the door and his play since then. The 2 picks we got are much more valuable to us than Goran would be on his current deal.

St. Goran again. Goran demanded the Suns trade IT or he would not resign. They worked out a trade for IT and then Goran said he would not sign anyway. Goran is no victim. Good riddance. Insecure prima donna.

I'm glad they are both gone and glad they are having their success. I'm happy with our team where we are and the assets we got for those guys. Win/Win

[Zelaznyrules]

Didn't Goran admit that he was overreacting later on? Granted, he then retracted his retraction after Ryan called him out but that's another story.

Anyway, I don't think there's any doubt that we basically assured Goran that he mattered more than Thomas and if things didn't work out that we'd move Isaiah. And then, it started working out, at least up until the locker room scuffle. I suspect after that incident he once again asked for Thomas to be traded and the front office agreed to do it. Apparently Dragic expected it to happen overnight.

We have no idea on the timing. You think he asked them one day and the next day he flipped out because he hadn't been traded yet. I think they probably told him they are looking to move him weeks or more before and didn't. I don't know what the timing is or what scuffle you are talking about or if you have evidence. All I know is he was approached and asked by the media and spoke about how he felt (about not trusting fo). Yes, later he mentioned he should have kept his thoughts to himself...I don't remember him saying "overreacted" but maybe he did say that, and he may have over reacted. I don't know the details. [b]It doesn't really matter at this point.[/b]

Well, personally I don't think it ever mattered all that much but obviously it's still an issue to some people. As for the scuffle, believe it or not, I don't care. There have been oblique references to it from mainstream media but most of the details come from second hand reports.

These second hand reports all say pretty much the same thing. It goes like this: Thomas called Goran a few names because of an interview, Dragic went at him, the twins broke it up, Dragic was pissed and he was especially upset that Bledsoe didn't side with him. Dragic then demanded that Thomas be traded, a week later, after the front office had worked out an Isaiah trade, Goran changed his mind and demanded his own trade. The front office reluctantly obliged after Goran took his public cheap shots and traded him to Miami. They could have foregone the Thomas trade but as they'd already verbally agreed Ryan apparently felt committed to following through with Boston.

How much of that story is fact? I don't really know but I tend to believe it substantially, I've just heard and read too much that supports it. I'm less confident of the other stories that surround that time such as the claim that one of Goran's home country agents had already committed to putting him in LA no matter what happened that season or the other rumor that his model wife was insisting on a move to one of the happening places such as Miami, New York or LA. But, regardless of the back stories, I do believe Goran was understandably worried about his upcoming payday and that he was under a lot of pressure from friends, family and business partners and made some bad choices as a result (bad from the perspective of a Suns fan, maybe not bad for him).

I've always felt his negative comments about us were, initially, nothing more than a strategic move designed by his agents. IMO that "hate" was phony until Ryan inflamed the situation by firing back publicly at Goran. Had Ryan kept his mouth shut, like Babby wanted, Goran's apology would have carried the day and the situation would have been mostly resolved. I've never thought much of Lon but as bad as we ended up looking through that debacle, I think it would have gone nuclear without his involvement.

[bwgood77]

Didn't Goran admit that he was overreacting later on? Granted, he then retracted his retraction after Ryan called him out but that's another story.

Anyway, I don't think there's any doubt that we basically assured Goran that he mattered more than Thomas and if things didn't work out that we'd move Isaiah. And then, it started working out, at least up until the locker room scuffle. I suspect after that incident he once again asked for Thomas to be traded and the front office agreed to do it. Apparently Dragic expected it to happen overnight.

We have no idea on the timing. You think he asked them one day and the next day he flipped out because he hadn't been traded yet. I think they probably told him they are looking to move him weeks or more before and didn't. I don't know what the timing is or what scuffle you are talking about or if you have evidence. All I know is he was approached and asked by the media and spoke about how he felt (about not trusting fo). Yes, later he mentioned he should have kept his thoughts to himself...I don't remember him saying "overreacted" but maybe he did say that, and he may have over reacted. I don't know the details. [b]It doesn't really matter at this point.[/b]

Well, personally I don't think it ever mattered all that much but obviously it's still an issue to some people. As for the scuffle, believe it or not, I don't care. There have been oblique references to it from mainstream media but most of the details come from second hand reports.

These second hand reports all say pretty much the same thing. It goes like this: Thomas called Goran a few names because of an interview, Dragic went at him, the twins broke it up, Dragic was pissed and he was especially upset that Bledsoe didn't side with him. Dragic then demanded that Thomas be traded, a week later, after the front office had worked out an Isaiah trade, Goran changed his mind and demanded his own trade. The front office reluctantly obliged after Goran took his public cheap shots and traded him to Miami. They could have foregone the Thomas trade but as they'd already verbally agreed Ryan apparently felt committed to following through with Boston.

How much of that story is fact? I don't really know but I tend to believe it substantially, I've just heard and read too much that supports it. I'm less confident of the other stories that surround that time such as the claim that one of Goran's home country agents had already committed to putting him in LA no matter what happened that season or the other rumor that his model wife was insisting on a move to one of the happening places such as Miami, New York or LA. But, regardless of the back stories, I do believe Goran was understandably worried about his upcoming payday and that he was under a lot of pressure from friends, family and business partners and made some bad choices as a result (bad from the perspective of a Suns fan, maybe not bad for him).

I've always felt his negative comments about us were, initially, nothing more than a strategic move designed by his agents. IMO that "hate" was phony until Ryan inflamed the situation by firing back publicly at Goran. Had Ryan kept his mouth shut, like Babby wanted, Goran's apology would have carried the day and the situation would have been mostly resolved. I've never thought much of Lon but as bad as we ended up looking through that debacle, I think it would have gone nuclear without his involvement.

Sounds like more conjecture. A lot of assumptions. The point lilfishi was making was that it's important for players, particularly important ones, to have some trust in the front office if you plan to have a decent reputation around the league. Dragic didn't really need to be brought up again and we certainly didn't need to take another dive into this topic.

The locker room was pretty toxic for a couple of years, and if people want to lay the blame on one player that's fine, but it went on for years, and the impression the league and media had of our front office was crap. This stems from the players union and agents as well.

I think that has improved probably due to some learning experiences of ownership and management, and making the decision to bring in good locker room vets, some known by the fans, respected by the league, and going with young impressionable rookies as well as retaining a very positive and popular coach among the players. I hope and think we are past all that, so all this "he said, she said" stuff from over 2 years ago is not important.

Lets talk about Bledsoe here in this thread

[lilfishi22]

No need to talk more about Dragic since it's clear we won't all agree on what went on leading up to the trade but the trade did occur and comments were made from both sides.

Aside from that specific example, bgwood77 is correct. My point is that even though contractually a team has the legal right to treat a player like a piece of paper, a contract, an asset, it's how we treat our players that will determine how free agents, whether on the open market or our own, perceive our front office. Trust is an important thing, it needs to be earned and it goes both ways. If you want to be a trustworthy, professional and respected organisation then you need to show respect and be professional with your own players.

He appears to have turned a page with BK and has been open with him on our plans and such which is why he's stayed upbeat and professional even when he's sitting out with DNP's. Likewise with Chandler who should be on a contender but has otherwise been content playing his mentor-ship role. But that's why I brought this whole issue up in this Bledsoe thread in the first place. This is another similar situation (which may be a non-issue if we don't end up with another PG) where it may be in our best interest long term to move Bledsoe and how McD handles this from a communication (to the media, to Bledsoe and his camp) and strategic (what we can and do get for him) standpoint will be a point of focus for fans and free agents (and their agent) alike. If we take the path where Bledsoe is to be moved then McD needs to handle it professionally and respectfully because you have guys like Warren, Booker and other guys later down the road who will be watching McD's action with a critical eye.

[ATTL]

Bledsoe and sauce were in gilbert today playing basketball with little kids. Good on them.

[Frank Lee]

No need to talk more about Dragic since it's clear we won't all agree......

Oh come on.... I just got here

[Mulhollanddrive]

I'm in the camp of either contend properly or rebuild properly, if Bledsoe can play along 2 All-Stars keep him, if not we need all the draft ammunition we can get to build this young core with 2+ superstars.

[GMATCallahan]

I'm glad they are both gone and glad they are having their success. I'm happy with our team where we are and the assets we got for those guys. Win/Win

You do not believe that the Suns could, or should, have received more for those guards (two of the best in the Eastern Conference now), especially for Thomas? Phoenix did use the first-round pick procured in the Thomas deal to help acquire Chriss in last year's draft, but the Suns potentially could have received much more, at least if they had had waited.

Now, sure, one could argue that without those trades, the Suns would have finished with a better record in '14-'15, may not have been in a position to draft Booker (let alone Chriss and Bender), and so forth and so on. So maybe matters did work out, or will work out, for the best. But in that case, Phoenix would have been more lucky than good and still did not use those veteran assets (Dragic and Thomas) effectively. For the "assets" acquired in exchange for them look mediocre-to-marginal right now.

[GMATCallahan]

No need to talk more about Dragic since it's clear we won't all agree on what went on leading up to the trade but the trade did occur and comments were made from both sides.

Aside from that specific example, bgwood77 is correct. My point is that even though contractually a team has the legal right to treat a player like a piece of paper, a contract, an asset, it's how we treat our players that will determine how free agents, whether on the open market or our own, perceive our front office. Trust is an important thing, it needs to be earned and it goes both ways. If you want to be a trustworthy, professional and respected organisation then you need to show respect and be professional with your own players.


He appears to have turned a page with BK and has been open with him on our plans and such which is why he's stayed upbeat and professional even when he's sitting out with DNP's. Likewise with Chandler who should be on a contender but has otherwise been content playing his mentor-ship role. But that's why I brought this whole issue up in this Bledsoe thread in the first place. This is another similar situation (which may be a non-issue if we don't end up with another PG) where it may be in our best interest long term to move Bledsoe and how McD handles this from a communication (to the media, to Bledsoe and his camp) and strategic (what we can and do get for him) standpoint will be a point of focus for fans and free agents (and their agent) alike. If we take the path where Bledsoe is to be moved then McD needs to handle it professionally and respectfully because you have guys like Warren, Booker and other guys later down the road who will be watching McD's action with a critical eye.

That aspect helps explain why Phoenix constituted a "destination location" for many free agents during the 1990s. (Of course, being a successful team with attractive point guards also helped.)

[Damkac]

You do not believe that the Suns could, or should, have received more for those guards (two of the best in the Eastern Conference now), especially for Thomas?

No, because nobody saw Thomas becoming so good. Celtics offer were the best (probably it was the only offer) so Suns had trade him there. Wasn't the Suns only team that gave him contract? His value was low then.