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Eric Bledsoe

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Zelaznyrules
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#541 » by Zelaznyrules » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:26 pm

rsavaj wrote:
sunsbum wrote:
rsavaj wrote:
Not sure why people keep saying this. We don't know how the rest of the season would have played out, how the lottery would have gone, how the draft order would have gone, etc.


I feel like you just proved my point even though you are disagreeing with what I'm saying.


ha I guess in a way I did

just saying that it's not a certainty that we don't end up with Booker if we kept Thomas


No, it's not a certainty but I think it decreases the likelihood we'd target him in the first place and considerably reduces our chance to take him even if we wanted to. So, most likely, Thomas or Booker.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#542 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:32 pm

What matters may come down, actually, is whether the Suns should have kept Isaiah Thomas and traded Eric Bledsoe. In that case, there is a great chance that Phoenix could be featuring a starting back court of Thomas and Booker right now, although the presence of Bender and Chriss would be dubious.

Now, of course, the idea of trading Bledsoe and keeping Thomas would have been ridiculous to many people at the time. Bledsoe was younger (albeit by just one year) and an established starter with the Suns, and he was much better defensively. Then again, Thomas was clearly better at most aspects of offense. He was a superior shooter with a natural half-court game in the pick-and-roll, whereas Bledsoe struggled when he could not simply explode to the basket on the break. (Bledsoe has improved his half-court and pick-and-roll game since then, but it is still not as good as Thomas' then, let alone Thomas' now.)

According to Real Plus-Minus, Thomas and Bledsoe were almost identical in value this past season, with Thomas' advantage on offense nearly erased by his disadvantage on defense (even if Bledsoe rated as a mediocre defender this year compared to the elite defender that he used to be).

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

But finding good defenders, while not exactly easy, is much easier than finding someone who can consistently create efficient offense for himself and his teammates, especially in half-court situations. Steve Nash makes for an operative analogy, and although Thomas does it as more of an Allen Iverson-type scorer (with much better efficiency and shooting ability, albeit in today's spacious context), like Nash he creates constant problems for defenses in the pick-and-roll and routinely scrambles half-court defenders. Just as the Suns were able to surround Nash with enough good defenders (albeit usually with a glaring weakness in the middle) to constitute a number-one seed and a championship contender, the Celtics have been able to do the same with Thomas (in the East, at least.) Likewise, the 76ers won a mediocre conference by surrounding Iverson in that manner. Bledsoe, conversely, while a good offensive player, will never be "that" offensive player—so how do you build a winning team around him? You could win with him, but the roster's overall offensive requirements will be much greater.

I am not blaming McDonough regarding this issue; the matter is much easier to see in retrospect. Still, the possibilities are intriguing to ponder and potentially useful moving forward.

The ideal scenario is that you find a point guard who excels at creating efficient offense for himself and teammates and is also good defensively, like Kevin Johnson or Chris Paul (even though I feel that Paul dribbles too much, due in part to his mediocre left hand). But in that case, you are arguably talking about top-five point guards all time (certainly top-ten)—and the only two players to ever average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, and 2.0 steals in the same season.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#543 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:33 pm

Zelaznyrules wrote:No, it's not a certainty but I think it decreases the likelihood we'd target him in the first place and considerably reduces our chance to take him even if we wanted to. So, most likely, Thomas or Booker.


I feel that the likelihood of targeting him would have been the same—the Suns drafted Booker even with an expected starting back court of Bledsoe and Knight, both of whom were young.

But the chances of being able to draft him would have probably been slightly worse.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#544 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:55 pm

GMATCallahan wrote:What matters may come down, actually, is whether the Suns should have kept Isaiah Thomas and traded Eric Bledsoe. In that case, there is a great chance that Phoenix could be featuring a starting back court of Thomas and Booker right now, although the presence of Bender and Chriss would be dubious.

Now, of course, the idea of trading Bledsoe and keeping Thomas would have been ridiculous to many people at the time. Bledsoe was younger (albeit by just one year) and an established starter with the Suns, and he was much better defensively. Then again, Thomas was clearly better at most aspects of offense. He was a superior shooter with a natural half-court game in the pick-and-roll, whereas Bledsoe struggled when he could not simply explode to the basket on the break. (Bledsoe has improved his half-court and pick-and-roll game since then, but it is still not as good as Thomas' then, let alone Thomas' now.)

According to Real Plus-Minus, Thomas and Bledsoe were almost identical in value this past season, with Thomas' advantage on offense nearly erased by his disadvantage on defense (even if Bledsoe rated as a mediocre defender this year compared to the elite defender that he used to be).

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1

But finding good defenders, while not exactly easy, is much easier than finding someone who can consistently create efficient offense for himself and his teammates, especially in half-court situations. Steve Nash makes for an operative analogy, and although Thomas does it as more of an Allen Iverson-type scorer (with much better efficiency and shooting ability, albeit in today's spacious context), like Nash he creates constant problems for defenses in the pick-and-roll and routinely scrambles half-court defenders. Just as the Suns were able to surround Nash with enough good defenders (albeit usually with a glaring weakness in the middle) to constitute a number-one seed and a championship contender, the Celtics have been able to do the same with Thomas (in the East, at least.) Likewise, the 76ers won a mediocre conference by surrounding Iverson in that manner. Bledsoe, conversely, while a good offensive player, will never be "that" offensive player—so how do you build a winning team around him? You could win with him, but the roster's overall offensive requirements will be much greater.

I am not blaming McDonough regarding this issue; the matter is much easier to see in retrospect. Still, the possibilities are intriguing to ponder and potentially useful moving forward.

The ideal scenario is that you find a point guard who excels at creating efficient offense for himself and teammates and is also good defensively, like Kevin Johnson or Chris Paul (even though I feel that Paul dribbles too much, due in part to his mediocre left hand). But in that case, you are arguably talking about top-five point guards all time (certainly top-ten)—and the only two players to ever average at least 20.0 points, 10.0 assists, a .500 field goal percentage, and 2.0 steals in the same season.


Plus, Phoenix certainly could have acquired more in exchange for Bledsoe.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#545 » by Frank Lee » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:56 am

But Bled was McDo's crown jewel




Until Booker came along.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#546 » by GMATCallahan » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:40 am

Frank Lee wrote:But Bled was McDo's crown jewel




Until Booker came along.


I suppose so. But when the Suns acquired him, I saw Bledsoe as a potential asset as much as a building block. The Suns would see how he and Dragic played together and could always trade one of them if matters were less than optimal. The main benefit was simply that Phoenix had become younger, more athletic, more talented, and better leveraged.

And then Phoenix inked Thomas the followed summer in part as insurance in case Bledsoe, who was a restricted free agent, somehow escaped the fold. The Suns' delay in re-signing Bledsoe, and their willingness to bring Thomas on board, suggests that they understood that Bledsoe could be expendable.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#547 » by Frank Lee » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:13 am

Seems to me, in hindsight, the front office, and I mean collectively, decided to play hard ball with Bled and Paul causing the semi hold out. To hedge the bet, they signed Thomas, then strong armed Bled into the deal he has. Take it or play out the year and test the market. wasn't that his option ? (May be I am wrong as it was some time ago) They then force-fed us the Hydra BS marketing job / system. Sure, it seemed to work, but it wasn't a natural fit for all and thus the turmoil/drama and eventual departure of not one, but two starting caliber PGs.

Trying to save a few million in this league doesn't always pay dividends. No telling where we'd be now, but had the FO just settled with Bled and Paul from the get go, the whole mess could have been avoided along with the perceived cheapness and negative view of management.

I think Mcdo out-thunk himself on this one. If it wasn't for the success of Booker this year, and some promising moments from a few others, I think McDo would be McDone. You can dress it up as you want to see it, but they 'leveraged' themselves right into a corner, IMO.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#548 » by itlnsunsfan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:30 am

I don't think you can win a championship with IT as your number one option, and I don't think his style of play and ego allow him to be anything but. Remember, the less the ball is in his hands, the more value his team gives up on the defensive end, and he is on record as wanting to be the "best player ever" (which is impossible because he's not a two way player). I'm glad he's gone and am quite happy that his departure helped us acquire Chriss.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#549 » by Zelaznyrules » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:00 am

Frank Lee wrote:Seems to me, in hindsight, the front office, and I mean collectively, decided to play hard ball with Bled and Paul causing the semi hold out. To hedge the bet, they signed Thomas, then strong armed Bled into the deal he has. Take it or play out the year and test the market. wasn't that his option ? (May be I am wrong as it was some time ago) They then force-fed us the Hydra BS marketing job / system. Sure, it seemed to work, but it wasn't a natural fit for all and thus the turmoil/drama and eventual departure of not one, but two starting caliber PGs.

Trying to save a few million in this league doesn't always pay dividends. No telling where we'd be now, but had the FO just settled with Bled and Paul from the get go, the whole mess could have been avoided along with the perceived cheapness and negative view of management.

I think Mcdo out-thunk himself on this one. If it wasn't for the success of Booker this year, and some promising moments from a few others, I think McDo would be McDone. You can dress it up as you want to see it, but they 'leveraged' themselves right into a corner, IMO.


I wouldn't put it that way at all. IMO, Rich Paul made wholly unreasonable demands, well out of line for Eric's market value. Then, McDonough (or maybe it was Babby), having heard the whispers about the huge increase in TV money, made an offer that came close to Paul's demands. When it was first signed we looked pretty weak for doing so but even with his next injury, the new TV deal has turned it into a very reasonable contract. The only time our current front office hurt themselves by going cheap, IMO, is not stepping up for Channing Frye.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#550 » by itlnsunsfan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:37 am

The Bledsoe contract summer was a debacle, but it turned out ok in the end. Bledsoe got locked up, we got nice value for Dragic, and we basically turned cap space into a first round pick with IT. The only horrible transgression was the Knight trade, which really didn't have to happen, and really makes me hate life when I think about it, because who wouldn't want another top 6 pick in this draft. Anything besides crying over the Knight trade is crying over getting a free one scoop ice cream cone rather than two scoops.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#551 » by Frank Lee » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:52 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Seems to me, in hindsight, the front office, and I mean collectively, decided to play hard ball with Bled and Paul causing the semi hold out. To hedge the bet, they signed Thomas, then strong armed Bled into the deal he has. Take it or play out the year and test the market. wasn't that his option ? (May be I am wrong as it was some time ago) They then force-fed us the Hydra BS marketing job / system. Sure, it seemed to work, but it wasn't a natural fit for all and thus the turmoil/drama and eventual departure of not one, but two starting caliber PGs.

Trying to save a few million in this league doesn't always pay dividends. No telling where we'd be now, but had the FO just settled with Bled and Paul from the get go, the whole mess could have been avoided along with the perceived cheapness and negative view of management.

I think Mcdo out-thunk himself on this one. If it wasn't for the success of Booker this year, and some promising moments from a few others, I think McDo would be McDone. You can dress it up as you want to see it, but they 'leveraged' themselves right into a corner, IMO.


I wouldn't put it that way at all. IMO, Rich Paul made wholly unreasonable demands, well out of line for Eric's market value. Then, McDonough (or maybe it was Babby), having heard the whispers about the huge increase in TV money, made an offer that came close to Paul's demands. When it was first signed we looked pretty weak for doing so but even with his next injury, the new TV deal has turned it into a very reasonable contract. The only time our current front office hurt themselves by going cheap, IMO, is not stepping up for Channing Frye.


Bled and Paul wanted 5 yrs at 80 mil, and we initially offered four at 48 mill.... then the wait out began, but no substantial offers came up for the restricted FA...in the end he went 5 for 70.... 2 mill more per year and there would be no squabbling nor a need for Thomas. So what is/was 'Market Value' ? Its hard to gauge for restricted FAs as bidding teams can have the money/cap space tied up only to have their bid matched. There is a lot of posturing going on there, bluffing, poker playing...why even bid?

Furthermore, Id say its a reasonable claim, had Bled been signed promptly we wouldn't even considered Thomas as we had hopeful rookie Ennis to back up our two PGs. Heck, he might have signed for the 70 if the FO countered rather than made a stingy stance. BTW, I think this was Babby and Sarver's doing much more than McDo's.

Remember, that was a good team with Bled and Dragic running the point. They were fun to watch and it was looking like we had the next dynamic backcourt. Yet for some reason McDo dismantled/monkeyF'd it, all for 2 mill per year. (And frankly, if McDo didn't go asset collecting and give TheGortat away in his very first deal, thats a play off team) Look at the steady decline in attendance....How much do you think the lost in that revenue with the s***show that followed? Sure, we got picks for Dragic, but picks are paper and not measurable talent. The IT pick essentially cost us 8 mill (his 1 yr salary) These moves we almost all reactionary damage control, covering for previous mistakes. It just didn't make sense to me and was the beginning of the dark years... emphasis on YEARS

I agree with your comments on Frye... thats another stingy moment.

I guess we right it off as growing pains for both McDo and Sarver, yet the even money poochscrewer was former agent and lip wizard Babby.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2210141
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/234712/Why-Eric-Bledsoes-Max-Contract-Awaits
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#552 » by Zelaznyrules » Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:54 am

As I recall, we did counter but Rich Paul wasn't participating. He didn't want to negotiate at all. And, despite the way it turned out, it really wasn't the Suns arguing over 2 million dollars. There was no way that Eric had earned even the money we offered and most reports made fun of the Suns for even going that far (except the puff pieces from Klutch cronies). 4 for 48 is just a long way from 5 for 80 when that last year looks like it's part of a huge overpay. By the time we made the deal, getting the 5th year was at our insistence because the new tv money made his deal a bargain.

Over that summer, stories started leaking out about Fox Sports wanting to buy one night of games and that ESPN and TNT were going to offer a large sum to keep that from happening. When the Front Office discovered that salaries were about to jump through the roof, we compromised fairly quickly. But at the start of that negotiation, neither side had a clue that the TV contract was going to change the NBA world. So, it's only 2 million in hindsight and I really doubt we reach that compromise if the TV deal didn't take that huge jump.

But even if we'd made that deal earlier and passed on Thomas as a result, I think we still fall apart that season. It's pure speculation but I think we lose Goran to Free Agency at the end of the season anyway. Without Channing, that pair was doomed. Two penetrating guards without space to penetrate is a recipe for disaster. And whatever idiot thought that Tolliver was going to be a nice replacement as a court spacer was smoking something that even Medical Pot stores don't carry.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#553 » by GMATCallahan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:35 am

Frank Lee wrote:Seems to me, in hindsight, the front office, and I mean collectively, decided to play hard ball with Bled and Paul causing the semi hold out. To hedge the bet, they signed Thomas, then strong armed Bled into the deal he has. Take it or play out the year and test the market. wasn't that his option ? (May be I am wrong as it was some time ago) They then force-fed us the Hydra BS marketing job / system. Sure, it seemed to work, but it wasn't a natural fit for all and thus the turmoil/drama and eventual departure of not one, but two starting caliber PGs.

Trying to save a few million in this league doesn't always pay dividends. No telling where we'd be now, but had the FO just settled with Bled and Paul from the get go, the whole mess could have been avoided along with the perceived cheapness and negative view of management.

I think Mcdo out-thunk himself on this one. If it wasn't for the success of Booker this year, and some promising moments from a few others, I think McDo would be McDone. You can dress it up as you want to see it, but they 'leveraged' themselves right into a corner, IMO.


... indeed.

And Bledsoe has refused Phoenix's four-year, $48 million offer it made earlier this summer. That leaves the one-year, $3.7 million qualifying offer from the Suns for the 2014-15 season.

If Bledsoe takes the one-year offer from Phoenix, he'll be an unrestricted free agent next year, free to negotiate with any team without the Suns having the right to match. But Bledsoe would be gambling against a long-term debilitating injury.


http://www.nba.com/2014/news/features/david_aldridge/09/22/morning-tip-five-unanswered-questions-for-camps-eric-bledsoe-contract-situation-nfl-off-the-field-scandals/
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#554 » by GMATCallahan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:18 am

itlnsunsfan wrote:The Bledsoe contract summer was a debacle, but it turned out ok in the end. Bledsoe got locked up, we got nice value for Dragic, and we basically turned cap space into a first round pick with IT. The only horrible transgression was the Knight trade, which really didn't have to happen, and really makes me hate life when I think about it, because who wouldn't want another top 6 pick in this draft. Anything besides crying over the Knight trade is crying over getting a free one scoop ice cream cone rather than two scoops.


... not sure that I see the Dragic return as "nice value." A very late lottery pick this year and a first-round pick four years from now from a franchise that has never been down for long? Right now, the value seems pretty minimal for a player of Dragic's caliber.

Likewise with Thomas, as I noted earlier, the "first-round" pick would have been a second-round pick in 1994, except without the guaranteed money. Now, the Suns did use it effectively enough as a chip to help procure Chriss, so it was not a total loss, but the exchange will go down as one of the most outrageously lopsided deals in NBA history.

Let us put it this way: if Dragic and Thomas could be taken for those prices, Phoenix was something of a cut-rate NBA guard supplier circa 2015. And compare what Dragic and Thomas returned to the haul that Boston received from Brooklyn in the summer of 2013 for a thirty-seven-year old Kevin Garnett and a nearly-as-old Paul Pierce, who had just been stifled in the playoffs by Iman Shumpert. Granted, not every team is owned by a megalomanical Russian billionaire who does not use a computer, but ...
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#555 » by itlnsunsfan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:31 am

GMATCallahan wrote:
itlnsunsfan wrote:The Bledsoe contract summer was a debacle, but it turned out ok in the end. Bledsoe got locked up, we got nice value for Dragic, and we basically turned cap space into a first round pick with IT. The only horrible transgression was the Knight trade, which really didn't have to happen, and really makes me hate life when I think about it, because who wouldn't want another top 6 pick in this draft. Anything besides crying over the Knight trade is crying over getting a free one scoop ice cream cone rather than two scoops.


... not sure that I see the Dragic return as "nice value." A very late lottery pick this year and a first-round pick four years from now from a franchise that has never been down for long? Right now, the value seems pretty minimal for a player of Dragic's caliber.

Likewise with Thomas, as I noted earlier, the "first-round" pick would have been a second-round pick in 1994, except without the guaranteed money. Now, the Suns did use it effectively enough as a chip to help procure Chriss, so it was not a total loss, but the exchange will go down as one of the most outrageously lopsided deals in NBA history.

Let us put it this way: if Dragic and Thomas could be taken for those prices, Phoenix was something of a cut-rate NBA guard supplier circa 2015. And compare what Dragic and Thomas returned to the haul that Boston received from Brooklyn in the summer of 2013 for a thirty-seven-year old Kevin Garnett and a nearly-as-old Paul Pierce, who had just been stifled in the playoffs by Iman Shumpert. Granted, not every team is owned by a megalomanical Russian billionaire who does not use a computer, but ...


Dragic didn't want to be here anymore and was going to sign elsewhere. Getting two first rounders for him is valuable. That unprotected Miami pick could be very valuable depending on Miami's talent acquisition in the next couple of years. I personally do not see the Heat as being good unless Reilly can subvert a re-build. As we've seen, that can back-fire. There are no certainties in life, but I feel pretty good about it. These two picks for a guy that was unhappy and leaving anyway........ I'd call that nice value.

Yes, Boston got a very good return from Brooklyn. I don't see the relevance to the Suns' moves. Is the Brooklyn-Boston trade the measuring stick for NBA trades? That's setting the bar pretty high. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, IT just wasn't worth very much. We got a first round pick for basically cap room, which we then turned into Chriss. I'm pleased with this.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#556 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:59 am

Frank Lee wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:Seems to me, in hindsight, the front office, and I mean collectively, decided to play hard ball with Bled and Paul causing the semi hold out. To hedge the bet, they signed Thomas, then strong armed Bled into the deal he has. Take it or play out the year and test the market. wasn't that his option ? (May be I am wrong as it was some time ago) They then force-fed us the Hydra BS marketing job / system. Sure, it seemed to work, but it wasn't a natural fit for all and thus the turmoil/drama and eventual departure of not one, but two starting caliber PGs.

Trying to save a few million in this league doesn't always pay dividends. No telling where we'd be now, but had the FO just settled with Bled and Paul from the get go, the whole mess could have been avoided along with the perceived cheapness and negative view of management.

I think Mcdo out-thunk himself on this one. If it wasn't for the success of Booker this year, and some promising moments from a few others, I think McDo would be McDone. You can dress it up as you want to see it, but they 'leveraged' themselves right into a corner, IMO.


I wouldn't put it that way at all. IMO, Rich Paul made wholly unreasonable demands, well out of line for Eric's market value. Then, McDonough (or maybe it was Babby), having heard the whispers about the huge increase in TV money, made an offer that came close to Paul's demands. When it was first signed we looked pretty weak for doing so but even with his next injury, the new TV deal has turned it into a very reasonable contract. The only time our current front office hurt themselves by going cheap, IMO, is not stepping up for Channing Frye.


Bled and Paul wanted 5 yrs at 80 mil, and we initially offered four at 48 mill.... then the wait out began, but no substantial offers came up for the restricted FA...in the end he went 5 for 70.... 2 mill more per year and there would be no squabbling nor a need for Thomas. So what is/was 'Market Value' ? Its hard to gauge for restricted FAs as bidding teams can have the money/cap space tied up only to have their bid matched. There is a lot of posturing going on there, bluffing, poker playing...why even bid?

Furthermore, Id say its a reasonable claim, had Bled been signed promptly we wouldn't even considered Thomas as we had hopeful rookie Ennis to back up our two PGs. Heck, he might have signed for the 70 if the FO countered rather than made a stingy stance. BTW, I think this was Babby and Sarver's doing much more than McDo's.

Remember, that was a good team with Bled and Dragic running the point. They were fun to watch and it was looking like we had the next dynamic backcourt. Yet for some reason McDo dismantled/monkeyF'd it, all for 2 mill per year. (And frankly, if McDo didn't go asset collecting and give TheGortat away in his very first deal, thats a play off team) Look at the steady decline in attendance....How much do you think the lost in that revenue with the s***show that followed? Sure, we got picks for Dragic, but picks are paper and not measurable talent. The IT pick essentially cost us 8 mill (his 1 yr salary) These moves we almost all reactionary damage control, covering for previous mistakes. It just didn't make sense to me and was the beginning of the dark years... emphasis on YEARS

I agree with your comments on Frye... thats another stingy moment.

I guess we right it off as growing pains for both McDo and Sarver, yet the even money poochscrewer was former agent and lip wizard Babby.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2210141
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/234712/Why-Eric-Bledsoes-Max-Contract-Awaits

I agree. You are on point, McDonough and Babby were terrible that summer not negotiating with Rich Paul. Arrogant IMO.

Bledsoe now is slightly underpaid, so it was logical to want $80M/5 years at the moment.

You can say whatever you want about Rich Paul, but he knows what his players deserve in the market, fair value.

A lot of people said that Tristan Thompson was overpaid too...come on. He is the starting C for the actual championship and he is a beast defending pick and rolls and rebounding the ball.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#557 » by sunsbum » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:27 pm

Tristan Thompson is so **** overpaid. Come on.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#558 » by Saberestar » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:26 pm

sunsbum wrote:Tristan Thompson is so **** overpaid. Come on.

There are a lot of players getting over $10M per year that can not play minutes on bad teams...like Miles Plumlee or Asik. Those are overpaid.

But a C that plays 30 minutes per game on the championship team can not be overpaid. He plays all of those minutes for a reason.

He is one of the best offensive rebounders in the game, that has big value. And he is very active on defense and can switch on the perimeter.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#559 » by GMATCallahan » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:27 am

itlnsunsfan wrote:Dragic didn't want to be here anymore and was going to sign elsewhere. Getting two first rounders for him is valuable. That unprotected Miami pick could be very valuable depending on Miami's talent acquisition in the next couple of years. I personally do not see the Heat as being good unless Reilly can subvert a re-build. As we've seen, that can back-fire. There are no certainties in life, but I feel pretty good about it. These two picks for a guy that was unhappy and leaving anyway........ I'd call that nice value.

Yes, Boston got a very good return from Brooklyn. I don't see the relevance to the Suns' moves. Is the Brooklyn-Boston trade the measuring stick for NBA trades? That's setting the bar pretty high. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, IT just wasn't worth very much. We got a first round pick for basically cap room, which we then turned into Chriss. I'm pleased with this.


The unprotected pick could be very valuable, but there is just as much of a chance that it will be of marginal value. The Heat is not bad now, and it has almost never been bad under Riley. With his track record and pedigree, combined with Miami's status as a perennially attractive destination, the Heat could certainly be a contender in 2021. And even if the Heat finishes near the bottom of the league by then, who is to say that the high lottery pick will not turn out to be the next Alex Len? These things are very hit-or-miss. Ultimately, the return on Dragic right now is a question mark and seems to be about the least that one could have hoped for regarding a player of his caliber: a late lottery selection in the short term and a total wild card in a few years.

The point about Brooklyn was ironic; I am just saying that the Suns received a minimal return for Dragic and Thomas. As I noted earlier in the thread, Thomas may well have been worth more than a very low first-round pick (which would have been a second-round pick in 1994), but McDonough may have panicked and pulled the trigger prematurely, or he may have expediently made a deal with the front office that he used to work for rather than taking his time and shopping around. That pick was part of the package used to acquire Chriss (not the whole package, of course), but the Suns still could have and should have received more.

I think that anyone who thinks that McDonough handled matters optimally in February 2015 is just trying to rationalize matters. One can still support his overall work, but he clearly did not maximize the opportunity to leverage his assets.
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Re: Eric Bledsoe 

Post#560 » by Frank Lee » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:58 am

Chriss package was actually 3 firsts and a second

2014 # 27 (bogdan)
2016 # 13 (papagianas) Morris deal
2016 # 28 (skal) Thomas deal
2020 2nd


One thing is certain, McDo shoots from the hip in trade land. Will the trend continue?
What ? Me Worry ?

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