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Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

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Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#1 » by Kerrsed » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:18 pm

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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#2 » by sunbolt » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:23 pm

How about:

Markieff & Archie to Toronto

Patterson & Delon Wright to Phoenix

Raptors don't need Wright at point because Cory Joseph signing in free agency. Suns avoid more complaining from Archie being overloaded at the wing position with Weems / Booker and get a back up point guard for the future. Patterson is a solid rotation stretch four who played with Bledsoe at Kentucky and is on a bargain two year contract. Good chemistry and fits our system.

Bledsoe / Wright / Price
Knight / Booker / Weems
Warren / Tucker / Weems
Chandler / Len
Patterson / Teletovic

Maybe we can get a pick from Toronto too or a swap up to the worse of Knicks/Nuggets pick next year owned by Toronto. Something is up with Markieff mentioning Toronto by name. We also preserve max cap space next summer for free agency or trade. Starting power forward may be the only need at that point.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#3 » by Saberestar » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:12 pm

We are thinking about logical and obvious destinations for Markieff but that is not the way McDonough makes trades or adquisitions.

No one predicts his trades, so I think we need to speculate what players in the league with "potential", on rookie contract and underutilized can be obtained with Markieff and some other asset (like Cavs pick).

McDonough and Hornacek probably have a list of players, PFs or not, that they like for our team and they are gonna trade Markieff if they adquire one of those guys.

Open your mind and try to see who are these players...... :)
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#4 » by bwgood77 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:32 pm

sunbolt wrote:How about:

Markieff & Archie to Toronto

Patterson & Delon Wright to Phoenix

Raptors don't need Wright at point because Cory Joseph signing in free agency. Suns avoid more complaining from Archie being overloaded at the wing position with Weems / Booker and get a back up point guard for the future. Patterson is a solid rotation stretch four who played with Bledsoe at Kentucky and is on a bargain two year contract. Good chemistry and fits our system.

Bledsoe / Wright / Price
Knight / Booker / Weems
Warren / Tucker / Weems
Chandler / Len
Patterson / Teletovic

Maybe we can get a pick from Toronto too or a swap up to the worse of Knicks/Nuggets pick next year owned by Toronto. Something is up with Markieff mentioning Toronto by name. We also preserve max cap space next summer for free agency or trade. Starting power forward may be the only need at that point.


I like it. Best most realistic deal I've seen yet.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#5 » by NavLDO » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:33 pm

Frank Lee wrote:You guys clearly place a lot more value on these draft picks than I, and sure are comfortable thinking Dragic has peaked and will be washed up at 33. You also assume we would have paid Dragic the same as Miami (which will likely look like a normal deal as the spending spree escalates) May be consider a happy Dragon would have signed a lessor deal to remain the #1 dog. Two can assume, no?

I see you also neglected to mention we gave up LA's 1st to get Knight along with 2014's #18(Ennis). Who would have thought we'd trade LA's pick (????) AND the #18 which BTW, we got for theGORTAT and 2012's #13 (Marshall) Repeat... Martin GORTAT +2012 #13 ... for Tyler Ennis. How did that one 'Net'-out ? But lets not go there... that fogs up the glasses.

I place little value on the Cleveland pick. Odds are it wont amount to anything tangible for 2-3 yrs (see Goodwin) or may be a draft and stash euro.

Miami's 2017-18 top 7 protected and 2021 1st....As long as Mickey is the owner and Riley the GM... and Miami (the city) doesn't fall off the earth they will be competitive as they are always going to be an attractive FA stop. ...those will likely be mid picks at the best.

Thats a late and two mid 1sts. May be, just may be Miami's 2021 slides into a top slot... but with the current quest to rebuild/retool/regurgitate I think its an even bet Mcduh trades them as he attempts to land a superstar....
and catch his feather in a windstorm.

The best post on where we are ???? Wow. That calls for a new pair


Wow! Impressive. Amazing that you were able to infer that Miami is a much higher regarded FA destination than Phoenix, yet in the same breath, assume that Dragic would've given a 'discount' to sign in this much less favorable FA destination. How does that compute, exactly?

And yes, $17M per for Dragic is about $4M higher than I personally would've been comfortable paying a 29 YO player who has never been recognized via All-Star game, and has only a 3rd Team All-NBA selection to his name. So you fail to recognize Chandler as being good investment at $13M, who has, within the last 4 years been recognized (proving he has 'aged well'), as the NBA's DPOY, 3-time NBA All-Defense, one 3rd Team All-NBA, and an All-Star game. And this all at a position more coveted/difficult to find talent in.

And reactionary? McD has made plenty of trades that were not born out of necessity like Jared Dudley for Bledsoe. So trying to paint McD as a GM that doesn't make trades or FA signings unless it's in reaction to a player's unhappiness is an unfair characterization. As being an 'older' gentleman, Frank, I would think you would be able to rise above the notion of 'immediate gratification', but apparently not. Has McD been perfect? No. Has he been a GM for a long period of time? No. Yet you are awfully quick to judge a GM that has taken this team from a 25-57 team to an overall, above .500 winning % team.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#6 » by sunsbum » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:33 pm

As much as I hate Kobe Bryant, I'm not sure how anyone can say he's overrated. Did you forget that time he literally carried the Lakers in a series vs us not too long ago (memory is bad 2010?). I remember thinking OK he's going to cool off at some point aaaaaaaaand it just never happened. Some of the most amazing basketball I've watched In my 34 years.

Austin Rivers on the other hand, I can't stand that guy and he's lucky to be in the league still, thanks daddy.

Excited to move on from the Morris brothers talk. Who's my new PF!?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#7 » by NTB » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:01 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TonyWarrenJr/status/632269010936180736[/tweet]
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#8 » by saintEscaton » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:32 pm

I don't think Kieff will be a Nugget. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-xdqzQ3-gc[/youtube]
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#9 » by kennydorglas » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:50 pm

saintEscaton wrote:I don't think Kieff will be a Nugget. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-xdqzQ3-gc[/youtube]


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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#10 » by Saberestar » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:31 pm

Teams are calling, Suns telling them not interested in trading him at this point

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/632291944459145217
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#11 » by bigfoot » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Saberestar wrote:
Teams are calling, Suns telling them not interested in trading him at this point

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/632291944459145217


Suns playing this game correctly. We may have to hold onto the misfit until Dec 15 at which time a lot more trade options open up. Kief will be gone. If he acts up one teeny bit the Suns should just send him home until he can be moved.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#12 » by Saberestar » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:06 pm

bigfoot wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Teams are calling, Suns telling them not interested in trading him at this point

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/632291944459145217


Suns playing this game correctly. We may have to hold onto the misfit until Dec 15 at which time a lot more trade options open up. Kief will be gone. If he acts up one teeny bit the Suns should just send him home until he can be moved.

Yes, obviously we are waiting for better offers, but I think we are going to trade him before the start of the season.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#13 » by King4Day » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:51 pm

At least we know teams are def interested
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#14 » by Son of Ra » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:01 pm

DarkHawk wrote:At least we know teams are def interested

No, what we know is that teams have offered us crap...
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#15 » by letsgosuns » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:11 pm

Seriously I wish I was wrong about the Morris brothers and they would have turned out to be productive players for a winning Suns team. I would have loved to be proven wrong about all the things I said about them. Obviously that is not the case. And unfortunately this Markieff situation has gotten worse than I ever imagined and every day it drags on is just more negativity. I want it to be over already so fans can talk about something positive instead of this garbage.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#16 » by tgtm_24 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:24 pm

Ray Ray or Not Traxxe any inside info?
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#17 » by Frank Lee » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:35 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:You guys clearly place a lot more value on these draft picks than I, and sure are comfortable thinking Dragic has peaked and will be washed up at 33. You also assume we would have paid Dragic the same as Miami (which will likely look like a normal deal as the spending spree escalates) May be consider a happy Dragon would have signed a lessor deal to remain the #1 dog. Two can assume, no?

I see you also neglected to mention we gave up LA's 1st to get Knight along with 2014's #18(Ennis). Who would have thought we'd trade LA's pick (????) AND the #18 which BTW, we got for theGORTAT and 2012's #13 (Marshall) Repeat... Martin GORTAT +2012 #13 ... for Tyler Ennis. How did that one 'Net'-out ? But lets not go there... that fogs up the glasses.

I place little value on the Cleveland pick. Odds are it wont amount to anything tangible for 2-3 yrs (see Goodwin) or may be a draft and stash euro.

Miami's 2017-18 top 7 protected and 2021 1st....As long as Mickey is the owner and Riley the GM... and Miami (the city) doesn't fall off the earth they will be competitive as they are always going to be an attractive FA stop. ...those will likely be mid picks at the best.

Thats a late and two mid 1sts. May be, just may be Miami's 2021 slides into a top slot... but with the current quest to rebuild/retool/regurgitate I think its an even bet Mcduh trades them as he attempts to land a superstar....
and catch his feather in a windstorm.

The best post on where we are ???? Wow. That calls for a new pair


Wow! Impressive. Amazing that you were able to infer that Miami is a much higher regarded FA destination than Phoenix, yet in the same breath, assume that Dragic would've given a 'discount' to sign in this much less favorable FA destination. How does that compute, exactly?

And yes, $17M per for Dragic is about $4M higher than I personally would've been comfortable paying a 29 YO player who has never been recognized via All-Star game, and has only a 3rd Team All-NBA selection to his name. So you fail to recognize Chandler as being good investment at $13M, who has, within the last 4 years been recognized (proving he has 'aged well'), as the NBA's DPOY, 3-time NBA All-Defense, one 3rd Team All-NBA, and an All-Star game. And this all at a position more coveted/difficult to find talent in.

And reactionary? McD has made plenty of trades that were not born out of necessity like Jared Dudley for Bledsoe. So trying to paint McD as a GM that doesn't make trades or FA signings unless it's in reaction to a player's unhappiness is an unfair characterization. As being an 'older' gentleman, Frank, I would think you would be able to rise above the notion of 'immediate gratification', but apparently not. Has McD been perfect? No. Has he been a GM for a long period of time? No. Yet you are awfully quick to judge a GM that has taken this team from a 25-57 team to an overall, above .500 winning % team.


Just saying Goran liked being in Phnx... a lot... To declare that a good trade is having a horse a couple blocks from the cart. Justify it with the money argument, but that is likely to go out the door next yr when the coffers really open up.

I don't believe I was discussing Chandler. I have acknowledged he is a good pick up...no lying he is 33... which I don't care about BTW. But since you bring it up, there is that selective argument that we should not invest in players who are older than our so called core... at least when it comes from the Dragon slayers. :roll:

My point about Miami is those picks, as distant as they may be, are likely mid to late rounders. Bosh is 31, Dragic 29, Whiteside 26, Winslow a rook... and 30+ mill dropping off their books next yr, along with an owner who ponies up... They look to be in decent position to remain very competitive over the next 3-4 yrs. Who knows in 2021 ? That hardly fits into our plans now, accept as a trade chip. (hello from LA1st remember me :wave: you will in next yrs draft)

overall above .500% ?? ... stat stretching there a bit aren't you??? This was dismal team last yr, and of that banner McDuh/Horny yr, just 4 remain, assuming MoBro is a NoGo. Sigh... what once was.....

I will remain skeptical. McDuh has had his practice rounds as a once promising young team was dismantled. It is now one with many question marks / new players / what ifs and hope sos. And its still a couple players away. (The mantra of the Babby/McDuh era) There is little doubt IMO, we are back to square one. A .500 squad would be a minor victory (and of course, a 14th pick :eyebrows:) and the elusive superstar remains a black hole off in space. You are not going to get him with just draft picks.

FYI...There is a lot of trade activity here, with really only Bled and Knight to show for it.
http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Suns&BeginDate=2013-04-01&EndDate=2015-08-14&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search&start=0 Gortat for Ennis...Scola for Bogdanavich... Thomas for a late late 1st, and Dragic for two distant unknowns.... I am not the only one who isn't that impressed with the FO, but it evident they are trying. At least here is the dope on McDuh activity. See for yourself. But you know where I stand.

Oh... and NavLo, I see you omitted my recent favorite 'glasses' from the 'quote'...tsk tsk... couldn't you get your own pair 8-)
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#18 » by RunDogGun » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:42 pm

letsgosuns wrote:Seriously I wish I was wrong about the Morris brothers and they would have turned out to be productive players for a winning Suns team. I would have loved to be proven wrong about all the things I said about them. Obviously that is not the case. And unfortunately this Markieff situation has gotten worse than I ever imagined and every day it drags on is just more negativity. I want it to be over already so fans can talk about something positive instead of this garbage.

Nice "I told you so" post. :lol:

However, you were wrong, they were productive on a winning Suns team. The problem is you hated them from the start. They are just being babies about being separated after taking a collective deal. It's their own fault really, but it doesn't negate their productivity.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#19 » by letsgosuns » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:15 am

RunDogGun wrote:
letsgosuns wrote:Seriously I wish I was wrong about the Morris brothers and they would have turned out to be productive players for a winning Suns team. I would have loved to be proven wrong about all the things I said about them. Obviously that is not the case. And unfortunately this Markieff situation has gotten worse than I ever imagined and every day it drags on is just more negativity. I want it to be over already so fans can talk about something positive instead of this garbage.

Nice "I told you so" post. :lol:

However, you were wrong, they were productive on a winning Suns team. The problem is you hated them from the start. They are just being babies about being separated after taking a collective deal. It's their own fault really, but it doesn't negate their productivity.


I was wrong? Yeah whatever man. I guess the Morris brothers were burning up the stat sheet during all those playoff series' they won right.

And I never hated them from the start. I liked Marcus a lot the first year he played for the Suns. I wanted Markieff to be the starter and Frye to come off the bench in 2013-14. I truly only started to hate them last year after they both seemed to plateau and had all of those technical foul and attitude problems. Then add in all the inconsistency in their games and I immediately knew they were not the kind of players I wanted on the Suns.
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Re: Suns Offseason Thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer 

Post#20 » by BobbieL » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:29 am

Saberestar wrote:
Teams are calling, Suns telling them not interested in trading him at this point

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gambo987/status/632291944459145217


I saw these tweets with Gambo and Dave King and Pelton from ESPN. I tweeted back - "Gambo, in years past, you were spot on. This year, not so much. Tbd"

So we had a little back and forth - and basically, in years past, he had the scoop over everybody this year he didn't.

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