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When I think about this Phoenix team, I think about where we were (48 wins in 2013-14), how we got to where we are (tried out a Hydra and a Dragon and a little Tolliver and Wright), and where we are now (Brandon Knight, someone on whom McD seems to be pretty high).

The breakup with Goran was messy, to say the least. We felt like we were getting dumped at the altar of a max contract we were totally prepared to give him. What he said about our organization was not at all flattering, and we were right to be pissed at him.

I'm not saying this is a karma thing AT ALL, but I did expect him to play better with the Heat.

(was trying to put his Miami stats up as a table, but I had absolutely no luck with that.)

I had a feeling that Miami, one of the slowest teams in the league, would not be a good fit for Goran Dragic, but ESPN seemed to think Miami would be one of the top 3 teams in the East after acquiring Dragic and Justise Winslow.

Did Ryan McDonough pull a fast one on the Heat? Did we completely fleece them? Would you still rather have Dragic than Knight? Will Knight ever get over this turnover problem? (Personally, I'm pretty sure he will). Seeing the way Dragic is playing with the Heat, would you still have given him $80M? Maybe not?

I liked Goran on the Suns but at the same time I felt he wasn't a good longterm fit due to his age and where the Suns were as a team. I believe the Suns should have cashed on him when his value was at the highest but then we had this 2013-14 run.
I was curious though how he was going to play in Miami. I wonder what Heat forum posters think about him but to me current Dragic at his current $80M contract is a huge overpay. I watched a couple of Miami games this season and Dragic was just bad.
Going for Knight is a completely different story though. I'm not thrilled about him at all. I would have rather gone the 76ers route - 2-3 years of total bottom dwelling and building through draft. The way the franchise has chosen is Sarver's vision of rebuilding, it kinda reminds me of last years of Nash in Phoenix when we desperately wanted to be in the playoffs even though the team was mediocre. Oh well.
The real problem is I don't like the Suns as currently constructed. This iso play is boring to me, the excitement is gone. Give me a true point guard and a true PF! I'm a loyal fan but this and previous seasons are hard to watch

Meh. He doesn't need to be the star on that team and his stats show that. Notoriously slow starter, so I wouldn't read much into it all.

Not worth what he is getting paid. Bledsoe on the other hand who plays on both ends is.


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He's Garth.

Actually he might not even Garth, but Bosh didn't work in this!

obviously no the right system for him to star. I'd trade Knight/Morris for him plus another player.

Dragic is better than Knight, it is not even close. He is playing with Wade and Bosch, so he is not gonna put big numbers but they are gonna win a lot of games. I think they are gonna be in the Conference Finals this year...but not more than that because Cleveland is too much for them.

He is around $2M per year overpaid...but nowadays his contract is reasonable. Terrence Ross makes $11M per year, think about it!

one-year fluke

Saberestar wrote:Dragic is better than Knight, it is not even close. He is playing with Wade and Bosch, so he is not gonna put big numbers but they are gonna win a lot of games. I think they are gonna be in the Conference Finals this year...but not more than that because Cleveland is too much for them.

He is around $2M per year overpaid...but nowadays his contract is reasonable. Terrence Ross makes $11M per year, think about it!

Is Dragic's future better than Knight's future given the off-set of the contract numbers? I don't think I would take that bet. The problem with Dragic was that when he was successful, even with the Suns, he played with a recklessness on his body that he could never survive long term.

dantley4prez wrote:When I think about this Phoenix team, I think about where we were (48 wins in 2013-14), how we got to where we are (tried out a Hydra and a Dragon and a little Tolliver and Wright), and where we are now (Brandon Knight, someone on whom McD seems to be pretty high).

The breakup with Goran was messy, to say the least. We felt like we were getting dumped at the altar of a max contract we were totally prepared to give him. What he said about our organization was not at all flattering, and we were right to be pissed at him.

I'm not saying this is a karma thing AT ALL, but I did expect him to play better with the Heat.

(was trying to put his Miami stats up as a table, but I had absolutely no luck with that.)

I had a feeling that Miami, one of the slowest teams in the league, would not be a good fit for Goran Dragic, but ESPN seemed to think Miami would be one of the top 3 teams in the East after acquiring Dragic and Justise Winslow.

Did Ryan McDonough pull a fast one on the Heat? Did we completely fleece them? Would you still rather have Dragic than Knight? Will Knight ever get over this turnover problem? (Personally, I'm pretty sure he will). Seeing the way Dragic is playing with the Heat, would you still have given him $80M? Maybe not?

I know that you are new, so you may not have seen all the threads beating this topic to death last year, so we do not need to discuss this much longer (if we even need to discuss it at all). It has been requested that this thread be locked, and if it does get into a heated argument or people unneededly continually bashing Dragic or the FO, then we will lock it and hopefully get past this topic.

I will give my two cents since you may not know. Would we be better right now with Dragic? Yes, I imagine so, but our main issue regarding that team vs this one is not having that great chemistry between two players like Dragic had with Frye. Knight is a better shooter than Dragic, but Dragic seemed to either drive to the basket and score, drive to the basket and work with Frye on a play, or make a pretty quick decision with the ball. Knight seems to dribble a lot around the perimeter and launch up a lot of long 2s. HOWEVER, without the space that was created by Frye, sometimes Knight has no where to drive so he doesn't have a lot of choices (but still should not be taking long 2s).

Also, Dragic played with the team for quite a few years, had played with Frye in 2010, and then had immediate chemistry with him to start that year. Dragic WAS NOT the player he was in 2013-14 prior to that. The chemistry with Frye helped make him that player. I don't know if he'd be effective with this rotation either.

Who would be the better player going forward? I imagine Dragic probably for a year or maybe two, and then Knight will probably hit his prime. But the BIGGEST key is that McD needs to put a roster that makes sense together. If McD HAS to have two starting caliber point guards he wants starting then he NEEDS 3s and 4s that can give them space. Heck, Nash wouldn't have been as effective if Marion, Q and JJ, or Bell and Tim Thomas, or whoever was there, spread the floor for him to drive.

So I think even though Knight's game is frustrating, especially the turnovers and long 2s, poor roster construction with 2 driving guards and players that can't space the floor well is the primary issue.

bwgood77 wrote:
Who would be the better player going forward? I imagine Dragic probably for a year or maybe two, and then Knight will probably hit his prime. But the BIGGEST key is that McD needs to put a roster that makes sense together. If McD HAS to have two starting caliber point guards he wants starting then he NEEDS 3s and 4s that can give them space. Heck, Nash wouldn't have been as effective if Marion, Q and JJ, or Bell and Tim Thomas, or whoever was there, spread the floor for him to drive.

So I think even though Knight's game is frustrating, especially the turnovers and long 2s, poor roster construction with 2 driving guards and players that can't space the floor well is the primary issue.

I am amazed at all the angst over Knight (its about the pick, really) and Hornacek, when the Suns problem right now is clearly the front line. While Chandler has been a help and has had a couple of good games, he has laid some eggs too. He has not been consistent on offense and neither has Len. Morris has played uninspired basketball, especially on defense. PJ Tucker is past his expiration date I think. He is not effective offensively except in a game or two here or there, and his defense has really fallen off.

There are two things that need to happen to improve this situation. 1. We really need to trade Kieff, and for value. Maybe something like Kieff and the Cleveland pick for Ryan Anderson. 2. Then Warren needs to start. While Warren is not yet the three point threat we would like him to be, he still has a way of making himself an easy passing target for a driving guard. I am talking about Warren getting starters minutes and PJ NOT getting those minutes.

On the Kieff trade front. Marcus's success in Detroit might actually help Kieff's trade value. Some GM out there has to say, wow, if Marcus was that good, who knows what Kieff could do for us. He will probably go somewhere and really succeed, but its obvious he has no heart to play for us.

Fat cat syndrome. Glad he's not here anymore.

Saberestar wrote:Dragic is better than Knight, it is not even close. He is playing with Wade and Bosch, so he is not gonna put big numbers but they are gonna win a lot of games. I think they are gonna be in the Conference Finals this year...but not more than that because Cleveland is too much for them.

He is around $2M per year overpaid...but nowadays his contract is reasonable. Terrence Ross makes $11M per year, think about it!

Someone's stats are way better. You say numbers don't matter though so it's kind of hard to argue your stance.

Calvin Klein wrote:obviously no the right system for him to star. I'd trade Knight/Morris for him plus another player.

Hmmm...I wonder if he'd even want to come back. I don't think either GM would do that though. McD's ego and Riley respects his players as people quite a bit more than McD does, so he wouldn't trade Dragic just after signing him.

Plus, even though Dragic might be currently better than Knight (though Knight has a better PER, so that's probably not even true), and we need to get rid of Morris, I think we'd be giving up too much talent for him.

I think we really need to give Knight more time before judgement.

jcsunsfan wrote:

Saberestar wrote:Dragic is better than Knight, it is not even close. He is playing with Wade and Bosch, so he is not gonna put big numbers but they are gonna win a lot of games. I think they are gonna be in the Conference Finals this year...but not more than that because Cleveland is too much for them.

He is around $2M per year overpaid...but nowadays his contract is reasonable. Terrence Ross makes $11M per year, think about it!

Is Dragic's future better than Knight's future given the off-set of the contract numbers? I don't think I would take that bet. The problem with Dragic was that when he was successful, even with the Suns, he played with a recklessness on his body that he could never survive long term.

That's true, nobody knows what the future will afford. Hopefully Knight improves his overall basketball IQ and he becomes the better player for the next four years.

I really don't care if his play there is due to his typical slow starts or the fact that, like the Suns, he's not the primary ball handler there.
IMO, he just wanted out. His talk of wanting to be somewhere where he could handle more was fluff and an easy way to get pity support.

In the end, we got 2 future 1sts. That's all I care about.

DarkHawk wrote:I really don't care if his play there is due to his typical slow starts or the fact that, like the Suns, he's not the primary ball handler there.
IMO, he just wanted out. His talk of wanting to be somewhere where he could handle more was fluff and an easy way to get pity support.

In the end, we got 2 future 1sts. That's all I care about.

Yep, I've even watched a few of the Miami games, and he was playing in a three guard system, rarely bringing the ball up. He just wanted out, and fitting that he ends up in the same situation with guard rotation. At least we didn't pay him that crazy contract.

I'd swap Knight for him in a heartbeat.

The Bledsoe/Dragic backcourt was a thing of beauty because they both complimented eachother.

- Both could penetrate but each had a different way of getting to the rim. Bledsoe used speed and strength, Dragic used craftiness.

- Bledsoe struggles to finish at the rim but was great at drawing contact. Dragic was one of the best finishers at the rim in the NBA.

- Dragic was a better facilitator. He was a better passer.

- Dragic was a better shooter then Beldsoe. Dragic is also a better shooter then Knight. Knight seems to be hot/cold. It’s no coincidence that when Knight shoots well, we win or at least compete, but when Knight is cold we can’t score. Dragic was more consistent with his outside shot.


I’m not so sure it makes sense to acquire Dragic back when we have Booker, Bogdonovic, and Archie on our roster. Bogdonovic looks like a bigger and stronger Dragic. Booker is a better pure shooter and has also shown ability to get to the rim with control. Archie is a longshot to make an impact at this point.

I think it makes more sense to showcase Knight and Morris and then try to trade them for an upgrade at PF. Ideally someone who can post up and score on the block as well as hit an outside shot.

Assuming TJ and Booker develop outside shots (I’m high on both to do so) and Bledsoe continues to improve his shot, we are a playoff team NEXT YEAR with an inside presence.

Bledsoe
Booker (year 2) / Possibly with a vet sharpshooter to help split the minutes
TJ (year 3)
All star caliber PF who CAN SCORE HIGH PERCENTAGE POINTS IN THE PAINT
Chandler

Add in a solid bench of Price/Leur/Len and we compete. Plus we bring over Bogdonovic to start developing.

So let’s package Morris and Knight (and maybe picks) for a stud PF to be our #1 option on offense.

It’s too bad we can’t trade for Amare + a time machine/fountain of youth water.

Why does everyone adheres to the championship or bust mentality want Dragic back? I mean, he's a good player, don't get me wrong, but this board makes him out to be LeBron.....