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After the complete lackluster performance by Kieff in last nights Bulls game, I think a consensus has emerged on this board, and the Suns front office, that Kieff needs to be moved from the team. The questions is how to move him while minimizing the damage to the team. Mind you, I said minimize the damage of moving Kieff, not try to get as many assets as possible for him.

As of last nights game, Kieff has officially moved into the "negative value" category.. Yes, I am making the claim that based on so many troubling factors surrounding Markief Morris, the Suns will be forced to give up an asset to get another team to take him.

The Suns are faced with the following scenarios if they are going to move Kieff.

Scenario 1
Trade Kieff to get an equal asset back (as of now, this will be borderline impossible).

Pelicans trade: Ryan Anderson
Suns trade: Kieff, Heat 2020 unprotected 1st, possibly a Suns first.

In this scenario Suns are forced to overpay for Anderson to get the Pels to take Kieff.

Scenario 2
Suns trade Kieff straight up and take a big negative contract for below average player coming back.

Suns trade: Kieff
Team X trades: Bad contract, low performing player ( I can't think of who right now )

I don't think McD will hamstring us with a burdensome salary just to dump Kieff. He might consider this scenario if Kieff goes full blown locker room cancer, but for now this scenario is on the back burner.

Scenario 3

Suns trade Kieff plus picks for a young prospect with vague potential.

Suns trade: Kieff, plus 1st round pick
Team X trades: young PF prospect with questionable potential years down the road.

McD might get desperate and trade Kieff plus picks for a young player who might develop down the road. This would be a down the list of options, but I am guessing it is on the table.

Scenario 4
Suns buyout Kieff and cut him from the team.

Kieff is on the first year of a very nice $32million 4 year contract. He might take less to get bought out then sign with Pistons and play with his brother. Either way, I consider this the nuclear option. Sarver has proven that he will buy out a player. I believe he bought Josh Childress out of his 20 million contract.

I see the above scenarios as realistic options for the Suns to move Kieff.

Thoughts?

thought: 1), Kieff is almost entirely unmovable right now. between his assault charge, the way he handled his brother leaving, and his play lately, i doubt you can get anyone to take him for anything more than a severely discounted price. 2), i don't think McD is ready to trade him. i heard him on Burns and Gambo the other day, and when he said Kieff was our best defensive power forward, i'm pretty sure he meant it. it is much easier to get Kieff on board with what we're doing. he could realize how much better we are this year, how much Bled and Knight are bringing it, and decide to buy in. if not, McD will move him for the good of the team.

I would love for Kieff to buy in, but I just don't think he is mentally able to commit to this team based on what happened to his brother.

I agree that both Bledsoe and Knight are bringing it hard this year, but will McD take the chance of squandering this season by keeping a half-hearted Kieff? This is a really tricky analysis and decision that the FO needs to make.

I can't see any of those scenarios happening. I don't think we would have to give away assets to get someone to take him, and even if that was the case, McD never would.

I think they will ride him out a little while longer to see what happens.

bwgood77 wrote:I can't see any of those scenarios happening. I don't think we would have to give away assets to get someone to take him, and even if that was the case, McD never would.

I think they will ride him out a little while longer to see what happens.

I think the same. McDonough and Hornacek believe in him and they think that he can play really well this year for us.

Yesterday he was a little sore by the injury and he was slower than normally....hopefully he recovers and can play at least like last season for the rest of the year. We need to remember that he is a good player but not an All Star or something like that...he is not gonna be a game changer, just a decent option like an starting PF.

If we can trade him for a good player or decent package I would trade him...but for nothing or for a second round pick no, no way.

We have a chance to have a special season this year, for the first time in 5 years. McD is under pressure to get us into the playoffs and if he thinks Kieff is going to jeopardize that he'll move him. I certainly hope that Kieff comes around and plays up to potential, but as posted originally I don't think he will.

Scenario 5:

Start Leuer who fits perfectly with our ball-dominant guards, and allow Kieff to dominate opposing team's bench units as a sixth man.

See how Kieff reacts to losing the starting spot. If Kieff really is truly serious about winning like he says he is, he should understand the basketball logic behind this lineup change.

If he reacts negatively, then we can explore the options of moving him.

Cutter wrote:We have a chance to have a special season this year, for the first time in 5 years. McD is under pressure to get us into the playoffs and if he thinks Kieff is going to jeopardize that he'll move him. I certainly hope that Kieff comes around and plays up to potential, but as posted originally I don't think he will.

I don't think it's clear cut enough yet. To some it is, and like I said last night, I am almost ready to trade him for whatever, but I am unsure if he will come around. I thought he looked competitive in that game he got injured. Then last night I thought he looked pretty competitive early in the game at times...still had his normal dumb fouls and arguing with refs (getting very old) but later he looked disinterested at times. I think part of the reason he looks this way is that the rest of our team seems to have so much fight in them suddenly, and it may not be that he has changed much, it's just that he doesn't show that same type of fight.

I think he is a guy who just wants to get his own for the most part, but I may be wrong. I would probably move him to the second unit though, especially if he plays so badly again. Let him play against reserves with Price and company. Though I would want Price to look for Warren and Booker first. It just seems it would work better at this point. Maybe have him be the first guy off the bench for a bit.

But back to jeopardizing the team, trading Kieff for squat is jeopardizing playoff hopes. Sure Leuer has looked good at times, and better than expected, and Mirza is coming around, but these guys are not going to be able to go against Blake, Aldridge, Dirk, etc. BECAUSE he is under pressure to make the playoffs he won't trade Kieff for nothing.

If somehow he COULD get Anderson for him and maybe a pick, maybe he would, but they also run the risk of losing him in free agency too...but he would be the perfect fit. I don't think there is a team out there right now that has the need to add a guy like Markieff, especially with the way he is playing and everything else.

If they do think the team is better without him, they bench him. But that won't happen yet. It's too early.

I'd like to see Teletovic start and Morris on the bench, still he'd get about 25 minutes.

The better he plays with the bench the more he gets extended to the starters. A bit like Warren / Tucker.

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I'd like to see Teletovic start and Morris on the bench, still he'd get about 25 minutes.

The better he plays with the bench the more he gets extended to the starters. A bit like Warren / Tucker.

Interesting you prefer Tele to start over Leuer. Would like to hear your opinion on that?

Im legit interested, not being an ass.

Kieff has contributed absolutely zero towards the success the Suns have had this early season. Absolutely zero. And there is a convincing argument to be made he has contributed in a major way to a couple of our losses by his lethargic and inefficient play. He is not a special player. He is just a role player that has never shown he could be a major contributor on a playoff team. He looks good on a non-playoff team, but is not good enough to be a top 3 on a deep-run playoff team.

I still maintain all of McD and Hornacek's positivity on Kieff is just lip service to paint him in a good light. McD would move Kieff in a heartbeat if he could get something remotely valuable back for him.

You're seriously suggesting we trade that Heat unprotected 1st rounder? To move Markieff for Ryan Anderson? That is beyond short sighted and, in my opinion, is even worse than trading that Lakers pick. That Miami pick could be an extremely high pick. Ryan Anderson is in the last year of his deal too. There's the possibility you'd be giving up that pick and Markieff for 5 months of Anderson.

The Suns aren't buying Markieff out. The Suns aren't taking back a big crappy contract just to move him. They'll wait until they get equal value. He's not playing well right now, but we're 11 games into the season. We shouldn't be myopic and do something rash that could seriously jeopardize the teams long term future.

carey wrote:You're seriously suggesting we trade that Heat unprotected 1st rounder? To move Markieff for Ryan Anderson? That is beyond short sighted and, in my opinion, is even worse than trading that Lakers pick. That Miami pick could be an extremely high pick. Ryan Anderson is in the last year of his deal too. There's the possibility you'd be giving up that pick and Markieff for 5 months of Anderson.

The Suns aren't buying Markieff out. The Suns aren't taking back a big crappy contract just to move him. They'll wait until they get equal value. He's not playing well right now, but we're 11 games into the season. We shouldn't be myopic and do something rash that could seriously jeopardize the teams long term future.

It's a Ryan Anderson love fest here for some reason.

Anderson is garbage. Just another version of Frye. Suns can get the exact same type of production if they just start Teletovich.

Scenario 1 would be horrendous for us.

1. For Zeller (Hornets)
2. For Derrick Williams (Knicks) and a 2nd rounder
3. For Vonleh (Blazers)

If you guys would do it, I'd trade Mitch McGary to Phoenix, Phoenix could send Kieff and a pick to someone, and the third team sends a SG/SF to OKC. Looking for someone to take some bench minutes who can create his own shot. I've been trying to think of one for the trade board but can't find the 3rd team.

bondom34 wrote:If you guys would do it, I'd trade Mitch McGary to Phoenix, Phoenix could send Kieff and a pick to someone, and the third team sends a SG/SF to OKC. Looking for someone to take some bench minutes who can create his own shot. I've been trying to think of one for the trade board but can't find the 3rd team.

I was going to say Phx would never trade Kieff for McGary, and then I re-read and saw you said we also send a pick out? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us....not even without sending a pick out.

bwgood77 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:If you guys would do it, I'd trade Mitch McGary to Phoenix, Phoenix could send Kieff and a pick to someone, and the third team sends a SG/SF to OKC. Looking for someone to take some bench minutes who can create his own shot. I've been trying to think of one for the trade board but can't find the 3rd team.

I was going to say Phx would never trade Kieff for McGary, and then I re-read and saw you said we also send a pick out? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us....not even without sending a pick out.

Scrap that then, glad I didn't try it on the trade board . Was originally w/o the pick, but still.

Cutter wrote:After the complete lackluster performance by Kieff in last nights Bulls game, I think a consensus has emerged on this board, and the Suns front office, that Kieff needs to be moved from the team. The questions is how to move him while minimizing the damage to the team. Mind you, I said minimize the damage of moving Kieff, not try to get as many assets as possible for him.

As of last nights game, Kieff has officially moved into the "negative value" category.. Yes, I am making the claim that based on so many troubling factors surrounding Markief Morris, the Suns will be forced to give up an asset to get another team to take him.

The Suns are faced with the following scenarios if they are going to move Kieff.

Scenario 1
Trade Kieff to get an equal asset back (as of now, this will be borderline impossible).

Pelicans trade: Ryan Anderson
Suns trade: Kieff, Heat 2020 unprotected 1st, possibly a Suns first.

In this scenario Suns are forced to overpay for Anderson to get the Pels to take Kieff.

Scenario 2
Suns trade Kieff straight up and take a big negative contract for below average player coming back.

Suns trade: Kieff
Team X trades: Bad contract, low performing player ( I can't think of who right now )

I don't think McD will hamstring us with a burdensome salary just to dump Kieff. He might consider this scenario if Kieff goes full blown locker room cancer, but for now this scenario is on the back burner.

Scenario 3

Suns trade Kieff plus picks for a young prospect with vague potential.

Suns trade: Kieff, plus 1st round pick
Team X trades: young PF prospect with questionable potential years down the road.

McD might get desperate and trade Kieff plus picks for a young player who might develop down the road. This would be a down the list of options, but I am guessing it is on the table.

Scenario 4
Suns buyout Kieff and cut him from the team.

Kieff is on the first year of a very nice $32million 4 year contract. He might take less to get bought out then sign with Pistons and play with his brother. Either way, I consider this the nuclear option. Sarver has proven that he will buy out a player. I believe he bought Josh Childress out of his 20 million contract.

I see the above scenarios as realistic options for the Suns to move Kieff.

Thoughts?

OK

1. Are you kidding me? You do know that Ryan Anderson is going to be a free agent this summer? You are going to give up Kieff and an UNPROTECTED FIRSTrom Miami, plus a Suns firstf for a Ryan Anderson rental? That would be right there with the Rick Robey and Kurt 'Thomas trades.

2. Not necessary. At all.

3. Maybe. But it is unnecessary to give up a pick.

4. Again unnecessary.

If Kieff is not performing well, he loses his starting job. Simple as that. His contract is not bad enough to be obsessed with dumping it. If he causes further problems--bench him. If its still a problem, suspend him from the team.

He is no longer in control of this locker room without his brother here. He can mope all he wants, I don't care. I am not mortgaging this team's future to get rid of him.