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Depressed

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Depressed 

Post#1 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:21 pm

I am depressed about this team. I've been a fan longer than the owner, and management, players and coaches come and go. Their interest in the team is second to mine. I'm a lifer. I want to win a championship, but what I NEED is hope that we're getting closer.

The recent comments of the front office and the coaching staff, not to mention the quality of play we're getting from what is admittedly a talented roster on paper, is disconcerting. Hornacek says that the coaching staff works with the front office to make decisions about playing time. McDonough says he's encouraged that we're not out of the playoff race despite our abysmal - no, shameful, record. He says he's willing to put assets on the table in order to get that next big piece to move us into the playoffs.

Playing the veterans and putting draft picks and other promising pieces on the table in order to get players who will only get us into the bottom half of the playoff bracket - I just don't get it. We play terrible basketball. Adding a player - even a superstar - to this roster will not turn us into contenders. It will only push us into the 8th, 7th, maybe 6th seed. It is SO OBVIOUS that we need to trust our young players to elevate this team. We need to encourage team play, and it is our young players who have exhibited a willingness to play the right way.

I don't enjoy watching this team play basketball. I don't get excited until one of Len or Warren takes the floor. When I see lineups including Price, Tucker and Chandler, I just don't want to watch. What's the point? If we're not going to win, why play these guys? What about their play indicates that they're going to get us to the next level?

Win or lose, I need hope. Give me the young players. Let them lose two games - and then win a game with TJ Warren scoring 30 and Len getting 15 and 12 and Booker or Archie adding 15! Let me see that. Don't subject me to one-on-one mid-range pull-up boring selfish HOPELESS basketball. And don't tell me that you're about to trade our draft picks and our young players - our hope for a brighter future! - for players who are only going to help us eek into the playoffs... maybe. Because I haven't seen it. Any indication that this roster, playing this way, has any chance of contending. I haven't seen it.

We have valuable assets. Lets not waste another season pushing, pushing, only to end up with the same disappointment and fatigue with which we ended last year. Move the guys that don't fit, and trust the young guys. Give them a chance. Let them screw up. Give me hope. I beg you.

:cry:
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Re: Depressed 

Post#2 » by rsavaj » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:16 pm

You're gonna feel that way until you push the Suns way down on your list of priorities. I was like you 3 or 4 years ago, but then you realize, "eh, it's just sports." You step outside, you realize it's a beautiful sunny day, and everything's okay again.

If you don't enjoy watching the team play, then why literally waste your time watching them? No, really. I'm not saying this in a condescending/patronizing way. Some people may say that I'm encouraging people to become fairweather fans, but screw it. Spend your time doing what you enjoy; if this Suns team isn't enjoyable anymore, then do something else with your time :)!

I don't catch nearly as many games as I used to, because until our fortunes change, spending 2.5-3 hours watching a mediocre squad isn't really high on my itinerary. Doesn't mean I don't love the team. It just means I'm not wasting my time.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#3 » by LukasBMW » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:22 pm

I agree with both of you.

1. As a lifelong fan, it's sad seeing the team have no direction. You can blame Sarver for that. It flows from the top down.

2. I stopped caring as much about the Suns when I realized that all the players are overpaid crybabies and management is really only interested in filling up the seats. It's just sports. Just another business.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#4 » by Revived » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:27 pm

rsavaj wrote:You're gonna feel that way until you push the Suns way down on your list of priorities. I was like you 3 or 4 years ago, but then you realize, "eh, it's just sports." You step outside, you realize it's a beautiful sunny day, and everything's okay again.

If you don't enjoy watching the team play, then why literally waste your time watching them? No, really. I'm not saying this in a condescending/patronizing way. Some people may say that I'm encouraging people to become fairweather fans, but screw it. Spend your time doing what you enjoy; if this Suns team isn't enjoyable anymore, then do something else with your time :)!

I don't catch nearly as many games as I used to, because until our fortunes change, spending 2.5-3 hours watching a mediocre squad isn't really high on my itinerary. Doesn't mean I don't love the team. It just means I'm not wasting my time.

Great post. I would sticky this post if it was possible to actually sticky posts.

I used to be this way not about the Suns but about my Chargers because I'm definitely a bigger Chargers fan than I am a Suns fan (started watching football long before I got into basketball). And Chargers are arguably as disappointing if not more disappointing than the Suns but I took this point of view that you have right now and its stopped ruining my days when they lose.

I remember back when the Chargers used to lose on Sundays, it felt like someone in my family just died that day. It was so weird until I realized one thing....these are million dollar athletes and if they don't care enough to come and perform, why should we fans care enough to ruin our day because of these million dollar athletes? Don't we all already have enough problems to worry about in our personal life?

Just like you, the amount of games that I watch has been dwindling down for both Chargers and Suns as the years pass. Like you said, why should I spend 2-3 hours of time to get disappointed and THEN ON TOP OF THAT, be mad or upset for hours AFTER the game if they lose? Just not worth it, I would rather spend that time doing something that makes me happy.

I just took the approach that you shouldn't let these million dollar athletes ruin your day or your mood. They don't matter as much as your friends or your family so its just not worth it to care that much.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#5 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:32 pm

LukasBMW wrote:I agree with both of you.

1. As a lifelong fan, it's sad seeing the team have no direction. You can blame Sarver for that. It flows from the top down.

2. I stopped caring as much about the Suns when I realized that all the players are overpaid crybabies and management is really only interested in filling up the seats. It's just sports. Just another business.


And the league can pull your dreams out from under you with a stupid suspension or crooked ref at any given moment. Don't give up on your team. Follow, be intriguied. Enjoy watching young players develop. Find some way to ENJOY it. I have to stay away from the message boards some during losing streaks etc, because the depressed, angry, impatient posters bother me more than the team playing poorly does. It is certainly their right to post whatever they want, but I don't have to read it.

I also enjoy the team in town that is winning. So if the Cardinals are up and the Suns are down, I take some time to enjoy the team that is succeeding.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#6 » by kennydorglas » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:57 pm

I'll kepp watching all of our games, but i'll definitely enjoy MORE this team when Tucker and Kieff are gone.
If Hornacek leaves it'll be good too, but I doubt this will ever happen... so I'm just cheering for the best right now.

We're close to fixing this team.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#7 » by Qwigglez » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:40 pm

I've really stopped watching Suns basketball consistently since the 2010 season. Mostly because I joined the Navy then and hadn't had time to watch all the games like I use to, but also because the teams since then have been awful to watch. I'm glad I missed most of the Beasley/Shannon Brown era, even though I actually thought Beasley might be able to turn his career around with us.
I bought League Pass last year but some reason I got a lot of blacked out games so I chose not to get it this year. Maybe I'll buy it again next year if I see some changes for the team.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#8 » by BoomShakaLuka » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:56 pm

The Suns from the end of 2010-2013 were about as depressing as it gets. None of the moves they made back then panned out. Sarver destroyed a team that was on the doorstep of the NBA Finals and wasted the tail end of Nash's career. Instead of re-signing Amare (or actually having a GM in place for a Plan B) Sarver and Babby wasted $81 million on spare parts (Frye, Turkoglu, Childress, Warrick). I remember feeling depressed back then myself looking at the Suns' payroll and thinking how the hell are they going to get rid of Turkoglu?

The 2012-2013 season was the low point for the franchise. The Michael Beasley acquisition was an unmitigated disaster that the Suns are still paying for. After Gentry was fired, the media for once publicly scrutinized Sarver and Babby. A spotlight was put on the unprofessionalism of the franchise from years gone by.

Thankfully the Suns did their homework after that season and got a GM in McDonough who initially made a splash by turning Dudley into Bledsoe. The hiring of Hornacek was widely lauded at the time. Ever since McDonough and Hornacek have arrived things have gotten better. McDonough has drafted well. He should've gotten Pau Gasol in 2013-2014 though. He also wasted the 2014 off-season to get IT instead of improving the front court.

Getting back to this year's team, I don't think depressed really describes it. The better word would be annoyed and at times pissed. This Suns team has enough talent and I believed they could win about 46 games and be a 7th or 8th seed. The Morris situation predictably has disintegrated and should've been handled in the summer. The Suns paid a steep price for Chandler and could've signed a veteran like Zaza Pachulia for far less. It's starting to seem like Chandler said all the right things to management and the media over the summer and now is just mailing it in.

Eric Bledsoe, Jon Leuer, Teletovic, and the youngsters: Len, Warren, Booker have all played well this season. Those are who the Suns build around. Trade Markieff, Chandler, Knight, and Tucker. The Suns need to get better defensively on the wings and stop playing this undersized back court. They also need one big who can set a decent screen and get to the rim and finish.

In the short term it wouldn't surprise me to see Hornacek replaced. Warren and Len should be starting. I've argued since last season that the Suns should be playing Warren at the 4 spot. That would open up the offense and speed up the tempo. Bledsoe and Warren have a great synergy on the floor.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#9 » by bwgood77 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:46 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:I am depressed about this team. I've been a fan longer than the owner, and management, players and coaches come and go. Their interest in the team is second to mine. I'm a lifer. I want to win a championship, but what I NEED is hope that we're getting closer.

The recent comments of the front office and the coaching staff, not to mention the quality of play we're getting from what is admittedly a talented roster on paper, is disconcerting. Hornacek says that the coaching staff works with the front office to make decisions about playing time. McDonough says he's encouraged that we're not out of the playoff race despite our abysmal - no, shameful, record. He says he's willing to put assets on the table in order to get that next big piece to move us into the playoffs.

Playing the veterans and putting draft picks and other promising pieces on the table in order to get players who will only get us into the bottom half of the playoff bracket - I just don't get it. We play terrible basketball. Adding a player - even a superstar - to this roster will not turn us into contenders. It will only push us into the 8th, 7th, maybe 6th seed. It is SO OBVIOUS that we need to trust our young players to elevate this team. We need to encourage team play, and it is our young players who have exhibited a willingness to play the right way.

I don't enjoy watching this team play basketball. I don't get excited until one of Len or Warren takes the floor. When I see lineups including Price, Tucker and Chandler, I just don't want to watch. What's the point? If we're not going to win, why play these guys? What about their play indicates that they're going to get us to the next level?

Win or lose, I need hope. Give me the young players. Let them lose two games - and then win a game with TJ Warren scoring 30 and Len getting 15 and 12 and Booker or Archie adding 15! Let me see that. Don't subject me to one-on-one mid-range pull-up boring selfish HOPELESS basketball. And don't tell me that you're about to trade our draft picks and our young players - our hope for a brighter future! - for players who are only going to help us eek into the playoffs... maybe. Because I haven't seen it. Any indication that this roster, playing this way, has any chance of contending. I haven't seen it.

We have valuable assets. Lets not waste another season pushing, pushing, only to end up with the same disappointment and fatigue with which we ended last year. Move the guys that don't fit, and trust the young guys. Give them a chance. Let them screw up. Give me hope. I beg you.

:cry:


Hey, I agree pretty much with everything you say. I don't really like the style of play, but for some reason I've kind of had fun watching this season (much more than last season and the two seasons before Hornacek's first year). We've had some brutal losses, but most of them came down to the very end, and win or lose, those are the types of games that make basketball entertainment to me.

The Warriors game sucked. The road trip was kind of entertaining for me mostly, despite only going 2-4 (which was actually what I predicted).

I do think the young guys will eventually play more and I also think the longer a team plays together, the more ball movement will happen. Hornacek has constantly preached ball movement but it takes time. There isn't likely a coach out there that will walk in and suddenly the ball will start flowing. Now if we were able to trade for a great passing PG, that would help in those matters, but that's unlikely to happen.

But I DEFINITELY agree that I will be depressed if they trade any of Booker, Len, Warren or any of our own firsts or Miami's firsts. GS will not likely be beaten by a team other than maybe SA and possibly OKC for the next couple years, and maybe the next five after that. We have time to grow.

I'd like a championship, but most of all I want entertainment. I watch for entertainment. Some of these games over the last 10 or so have been a roller coaster of emotions that are what being a fan is. GS sucks, but I could have told anyone we could very likely get crushed. I didn't really even feel like watching that game after about half time. I was a bit surprised so many people overreacted so much to losing badly to one of the, if not THE best team in history.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#10 » by thamadkant » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:55 pm

Same boat here.

I wrote a really long post the other day about my concerns about the FO. But didnt end up posting it when I realize there's no point... FO do things their way anyways.

But as mentioned.

Life has many other things to focus on.


Also... Suns will always be my NBA team... But doesnt stop me from enjoying other teams via their play and success or via players that play for them. In the end...its entertainment... Personal... But entertainment.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#11 » by blacksun » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:36 am

My dad and I were watching the Golden State game the other day. He is a casual fan, and is very keen on watching the Warriors play. We were watching the third quarter when the suns were getting killed. He turned to me and said, " Why dont you just change teams? Theyre not gonna win soon anyway." And being a suns fan since 12 years old, i didnt know what to say.

For me its never been an issue of winning, not since the end of the Nash era. I get my kick on the small things, obsessing about the NBA draft, making up trades, reading about the suns. Sure it would be great to have that same sense of direction as when McD and Hornacek first took office, but i just take solace on the fact that contendership can happen overnight. Im still an optimist, and maybe its because im younger than many of you here, but that small chance is enough to keep me hooked. In the meantime, i try to appreciate the small things, and not think about the bad as much.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#12 » by Damkac » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:04 pm

BoomShakaLuka wrote:Getting back to this year's team, I don't think depressed really describes it. The better word would be annoyed and at times pissed.

Agree. Nets are depressing team. Kings are depressing. Knicks was depressing before they gor Porzingis.
Suns are young team with lot of potential. I also wish Markieff, Tucker and Hornacek to be gone but this team isn't nearly as depressing as it was pre-McD.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#13 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:05 pm

I appreciate the comments I got on this thread. I've thought about them a lot. Useful advice as well as perspective.

Looking at this from the standpoint of the front office, I guess I see why we've been so hesitant to make any moves. Winning makes everything better. We have to keep trying to win.

It's also been nice to see Alex's emergence. Nice is an understatement, actually. That's given me hope.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#14 » by bwgood77 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:08 pm

rsavaj wrote:You're gonna feel that way until you push the Suns way down on your list of priorities. I was like you 3 or 4 years ago, but then you realize, "eh, it's just sports." You step outside, you realize it's a beautiful sunny day, and everything's okay again.

If you don't enjoy watching the team play, then why literally waste your time watching them? No, really. I'm not saying this in a condescending/patronizing way. Some people may say that I'm encouraging people to become fairweather fans, but screw it. Spend your time doing what you enjoy; if this Suns team isn't enjoyable anymore, then do something else with your time :)!

I don't catch nearly as many games as I used to, because until our fortunes change, spending 2.5-3 hours watching a mediocre squad isn't really high on my itinerary. Doesn't mean I don't love the team. It just means I'm not wasting my time.


I agree with this. I didn't watch too much the 2-3 years after Nash was gone because I knew it was a waste trying to get the 8th seed with an old team + Beasley. Sure, at the end of those years, I hoped we got the 8 seed just to see a playoff series and Nash. I casually watched here and there and definitely followed how they were doing but didn't get too upset about losses, except maybe near the end of the year (in the first two years when we had a slight chance at the playoffs).

Finally, when McD and Horny came in I was excited. I thought they would trade all the old guys and did trade most of them. I half expected Dragic to get dealt and I think Frye would have if he had value after being off an entire season, and of course they turn into the best pick-n-roll/pop duo in the league. Watching games that year got exciting, especially when we were beating some quality teams early.

Last year I was still vested, and hopeful that the IT signing was a good one, but the chemistry problems were apparent immediately. Once Len was starting and Warren was playing some it was exciting, but that was about it, and then the Knight trade was a bit shocking, and then his injury and the whole front court decimated made the end of the season not worth watching.

This year has been exciting to me. I like that we are continuing to infuse young talent in the drafts and the games are still pretty exciting. The brutal road trip losses sucked, but they kept me entertained. I am excited with Len's development, and am very happy with what I've seen from Booker.

My other team, the Chargers, I hadn't missed a game in years, and they were at least in the playoff hunt every year for over a decade at least until the last couple of games, but this year, they were out of it half way through the season, and I slowly became so disinterested I stopped watching. The team is decimated with injuries, so I can somewhat understand why, but I certainly don't spend much time vesting any energy into where they are right now. I will get excited come draft day and the beginning of next season.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#15 » by NavLDO » Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:22 am

cosmofizzo wrote:I am depressed about this team. I've been a fan longer than the owner, and management, players and coaches come and go. Their interest in the team is second to mine. I'm a lifer. I want to win a championship, but what I NEED is hope that we're getting closer.

The recent comments of the front office and the coaching staff, not to mention the quality of play we're getting from what is admittedly a talented roster on paper, is disconcerting. Hornacek says that the coaching staff works with the front office to make decisions about playing time. McDonough says he's encouraged that we're not out of the playoff race despite our abysmal - no, shameful, record. He says he's willing to put assets on the table in order to get that next big piece to move us into the playoffs.

Playing the veterans and putting draft picks and other promising pieces on the table in order to get players who will only get us into the bottom half of the playoff bracket - I just don't get it. We play terrible basketball. Adding a player - even a superstar - to this roster will not turn us into contenders. It will only push us into the 8th, 7th, maybe 6th seed. It is SO OBVIOUS that we need to trust our young players to elevate this team. We need to encourage team play, and it is our young players who have exhibited a willingness to play the right way.

I don't enjoy watching this team play basketball. I don't get excited until one of Len or Warren takes the floor. When I see lineups including Price, Tucker and Chandler, I just don't want to watch. What's the point? If we're not going to win, why play these guys? What about their play indicates that they're going to get us to the next level?

Win or lose, I need hope. Give me the young players. Let them lose two games - and then win a game with TJ Warren scoring 30 and Len getting 15 and 12 and Booker or Archie adding 15! Let me see that. Don't subject me to one-on-one mid-range pull-up boring selfish HOPELESS basketball. And don't tell me that you're about to trade our draft picks and our young players - our hope for a brighter future! - for players who are only going to help us eek into the playoffs... maybe. Because I haven't seen it. Any indication that this roster, playing this way, has any chance of contending. I haven't seen it.

We have valuable assets. Lets not waste another season pushing, pushing, only to end up with the same disappointment and fatigue with which we ended last year. Move the guys that don't fit, and trust the young guys. Give them a chance. Let them screw up. Give me hope. I beg you.

:cry:


Cosmo--I get where you are coming from but answer me this: What is the current W-L Record of the Sixers? Yes, ours isn't far ahead, but it IS ahead, and in the West, no less.

My point? Playing all the young guns, that are honestly less talented than the Sixers young core (just being honest; we're good, but not Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Stauskus, Wroton, etc., good), would likely land us with about 20-25 wins this season. Yep, we'd get a top 5 pick, but really, would you prefer we take that route? The Sixers have ONE player (Carl Landry) that is senior to the 2012 draft. EVERY other player they have on their roster came from the 2012 Draft or more recent.

I would love to see us start Bledsoe, Knight, Warren, Leuer, Len--all young guys from the 2010 draft or sooner. We could even start Knight, Booker, Goodwin, Warren, and Len, but what would that get us playing incredibly 'small-ball'.

EDIT: And I say Goodwin at the 3 instead of Booker based upon his freakishly long wingspan of 6'10" which is a whopping .75" or 1.25" shorter than Kieff, or .25" or .75" shorter than Warren, which also provides evidence to how Warren can fill in at the 4 in some cases, and even though he's a bit light in the pants at 230(now listed at 230; was 220 at time of draft), which isn't ideal, but not horrible either, especially considering Leuer is listed as 228. And Leuer/Teletovic can fill in the other 28 minutes, giving Warren 20 minutes at the 4 and 10-12 minutes at the 3. Yes, I'd like to see more of Warren, Booker, Goodwin, and Len with our other young guys (Knight, Bledsoe, and Leuer), but not at the expense of their development; we don't want them to get discouraged if they don't perform well; and we don't want to play them at the expense of getting wins, either. Just because they play better than say Tucker or Chandler or Price, doesn't mean that other intangibles we don't see, or that the extra time wears them down, or who knows what other reason, doesn't play a factor that may not be otherwise readily noticeable, right? OK, end of EDIT.

Give it until after we trade Kieff. Our team will benefit from not having a player who's "phoned it in" or what ever that phrase is. Just having him off the team, IMO, will make a huge difference.

Anyway, I get where you are coming from, but just give it a little more time...
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Re: Depressed 

Post#16 » by RaisingArizona » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:20 am

It sucks and it's frustrating but if it's making you feel depressed then it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate things.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#17 » by DRK » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:44 am

Its just sports. Its not life. I agree with everything rsavaj said. My mood to used to hinge on outcomes of games. If we lost, I was mad and grumpy. If we won I'ld be pretty chuffed.

Now, honestly I have more important things to worry about than a bunch of dudes throwing a ball around. Yes I do enjoy the game.. I love the game, but at the end of the day its just a game.

If we win the ship, awesome. If we make the playoffs, great! If we dont do either of those things.... seriously who really cares?
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Re: Depressed 

Post#18 » by bwgood77 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:05 am

SF88 wrote:
rsavaj wrote:You're gonna feel that way until you push the Suns way down on your list of priorities. I was like you 3 or 4 years ago, but then you realize, "eh, it's just sports." You step outside, you realize it's a beautiful sunny day, and everything's okay again.

If you don't enjoy watching the team play, then why literally waste your time watching them? No, really. I'm not saying this in a condescending/patronizing way. Some people may say that I'm encouraging people to become fairweather fans, but screw it. Spend your time doing what you enjoy; if this Suns team isn't enjoyable anymore, then do something else with your time :)!

I don't catch nearly as many games as I used to, because until our fortunes change, spending 2.5-3 hours watching a mediocre squad isn't really high on my itinerary. Doesn't mean I don't love the team. It just means I'm not wasting my time.

Great post. I would sticky this post if it was possible to actually sticky posts.

Like you said, why should I spend 2-3 hours of time to get disappointed and THEN ON TOP OF THAT, be mad or upset for hours AFTER the game if they lose? Just not worth it, I would rather spend that time doing something that makes me happy.

I just took the approach that you shouldn't let these million dollar athletes ruin your day or your mood. They don't matter as much as your friends or your family so its just not worth it to care that much.


Instead of wishing you could sticky the post, maybe you should print it out and sticky to your wall as a reminder. But at least things seem to be getting better.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#19 » by rsavaj » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:11 am

Didn't watch tonight. Instead, spent it with family that was in town, and got to play with two of my youngest cousins, aged 2.5 and 1.5(actually cousins once removed, but still). It was a really great night. The Suns didn't even enter my mind, and I think that's for the better.
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Re: Depressed 

Post#20 » by DRK » Sun Dec 27, 2015 6:43 am

On holiday in Penang, Malaysia. Had a great time. Checked the score a few times, and saw we lost. Back at the hotel now, thoroughly entertained by the game thread reactions to the loss
MrMiyagi wrote:Lob to DA for the win

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