Game 32: Philadelphia 76ers (1-30) at Phoenix Suns (12-19) - Game of Turnovers

[garrick]

Out of curiosity, is your career also something related to the digital world?

Only asking cause you obviously doing a fantastic job with it.

Eh....not really. I work in IT, but also do computer building/repair on the side. Then on the side of that i sell bootlegs (DVD's/Programs/Music/Etc.).

Its kinda more like a hobby of mine.

Being a computer expert, what would you recommend using for anti virus? I am probably going to get a new laptop soon, and I'd like to make sure it lasts a bit. Of course using firstrow links probably doesn't help.

If you find a virus or malware that an Antivirus program can't get rid of I recommend using malware bytes which is free and has saved my ass whenever a pesky virus refused to go away.

I think it's freeware so you can install it and use it for a limited time so I really only use it when all the other programs just can't do the job.

[garrick]

Along with Suns games, I also watch Spurs... you know.. to actually enjoy watching basketball...
Anyways, they tend to use the 24 second shot clock very efficiently... they use it to pass the ball around and move players around for better looks for a shot... just beautiful.
Popovic is a genius, because he knows he is in an era where high possesions with great 3pters like the Warriors, Clippers etc.. can get hot any game and trumph even the most balanced teams. So he ensures the game is played slowly and he uses the clock as much as possible...

PLAY defense for 24 seconds...
Move and Pass for 24 seconds....

Simple, yet often ignored by players who like to beat his own defender to the detrimental of his team.




The next coach... if its not Hornacek... I just want them to employ tactics, team tactics... in both ends. Not rely on individuals to carry the team.... because unless you have a top 5 player in the game, its reliying on luck and hot shooting too much.


Suns dont have a top 15 player and they try to play like they do.
I mean... Bledsoe and Knight carry the offense heavy burden, when both arent superstars with unstoppable moves or skills.

Suns should be playing cautiously as the Spurs, trying to use team tactics because that would be their strength... they have a deep team with multiple skills. Yet, the burden of the offense is on 2 players and streaky shooting. Defense wise, WOW, dont even get me started, Knight is a matador, the rest are just positioned to be beaten easily...

Chandler was/is considered a top 3 defensive BIG MAN, he was pulling down 11 rebounds just last year and putting up efficient scoring inside... yet this season ON the Suns... he is playing like crap.
Its not his AGE.... I seriously dont think it is.... its the team's system or lack thereof.

Suns should do the right thing and trade him to a team that can actually use his elite rebounding and defense, rather than play him 15 minutes a game and make his last few years in the NBA looking like a scrub.

This. And i'll add with us, it's not that we don't pass, it's that we don't pass with a purpose. Offense typically initiates with a couple passes around the perimeter, but when 2 of those guys are PJ Tucker and Ronnie Price, the D barely moves because it doesn't have to shift focus to such awful players, particularly when PJ is already covered and in the corner 90% of the time. And even when it's offensive guys like Booker and Warren, if they aren't moving it's easy to cover. Then there may be a post touch or a pass back out to the top, or a post touch followed by a pass out to the top, at which point there's inevitably 10 seconds or less on the clock--enough time for one of Bledsoe or Knight to go one on one or run a pick and roll. Despite that, we still manage to score at a good clip playing this ugly, poorly coached style. But in order to win when you don't defend and turn it over, Bledsoe and Knight have to have great games. We unnecessarily put almost all of our success on those 2 players' shoulders. This team is too deep to operate so stupidly.

When the offense is so inept the only way you can win is by playing great D but it seems not all our players want to or are capable of doing that.

When Tucker is saying not everyone is playing hard I wonder if he is only talking about Markieff or are there other players just not playing 100 percent?

[AtheJ415]

Along with Suns games, I also watch Spurs... you know.. to actually enjoy watching basketball...
Anyways, they tend to use the 24 second shot clock very efficiently... they use it to pass the ball around and move players around for better looks for a shot... just beautiful.
Popovic is a genius, because he knows he is in an era where high possesions with great 3pters like the Warriors, Clippers etc.. can get hot any game and trumph even the most balanced teams. So he ensures the game is played slowly and he uses the clock as much as possible...

PLAY defense for 24 seconds...
Move and Pass for 24 seconds....

Simple, yet often ignored by players who like to beat his own defender to the detrimental of his team.




The next coach... if its not Hornacek... I just want them to employ tactics, team tactics... in both ends. Not rely on individuals to carry the team.... because unless you have a top 5 player in the game, its reliying on luck and hot shooting too much.


Suns dont have a top 15 player and they try to play like they do.
I mean... Bledsoe and Knight carry the offense heavy burden, when both arent superstars with unstoppable moves or skills.

Suns should be playing cautiously as the Spurs, trying to use team tactics because that would be their strength... they have a deep team with multiple skills. Yet, the burden of the offense is on 2 players and streaky shooting. Defense wise, WOW, dont even get me started, Knight is a matador, the rest are just positioned to be beaten easily...

Chandler was/is considered a top 3 defensive BIG MAN, he was pulling down 11 rebounds just last year and putting up efficient scoring inside... yet this season ON the Suns... he is playing like crap.
Its not his AGE.... I seriously dont think it is.... its the team's system or lack thereof.

Suns should do the right thing and trade him to a team that can actually use his elite rebounding and defense, rather than play him 15 minutes a game and make his last few years in the NBA looking like a scrub.

This. And i'll add with us, it's not that we don't pass, it's that we don't pass with a purpose. Offense typically initiates with a couple passes around the perimeter, but when 2 of those guys are PJ Tucker and Ronnie Price, the D barely moves because it doesn't have to shift focus to such awful players, particularly when PJ is already covered and in the corner 90% of the time. And even when it's offensive guys like Booker and Warren, if they aren't moving it's easy to cover. Then there may be a post touch or a pass back out to the top, or a post touch followed by a pass out to the top, at which point there's inevitably 10 seconds or less on the clock--enough time for one of Bledsoe or Knight to go one on one or run a pick and roll. Despite that, we still manage to score at a good clip playing this ugly, poorly coached style. But in order to win when you don't defend and turn it over, Bledsoe and Knight have to have great games. We unnecessarily put almost all of our success on those 2 players' shoulders. This team is too deep to operate so stupidly.

When the offense is so inept the only way you can win is by playing great D but it seems not all our players want to or are capable of doing that.

When Tucker is saying not everyone is playing hard I wonder if he is only talking about Markieff or are there other players just not playing 100 percent?

I think many aren't playing hard beyond Markieff, but the truth is this team offensively, for all of its faults and wasted potential, is good enough to make the playoffs as ugly as it looks all game. Defensively we are a disaster. And the team itself, even when it was playing much better than now, has always been prone to epic letdowns for key periods of time in which the game is lost. I believe a lot of that is tied to our rotation decisions, which don't provide for any sort of balance and have too many 1 way players who aren't used properly.

To me, Tucker saying stuff has no real weight. He's as much a part of the problem as anyone. Playing hard, but not playing smart or not having the ability to play winning basketball, is not helping. PJ suffers from the latter 2 problems, and I don't believe his playing hard should excuse it. TJ has double the WS/48 and sees less minutes. For all the smart things PJ does defensively, he's an orange cone on offense who panics if given the ball in a position where he must shoot. What Hornacek, PJ, and others are saying reminds me so much of what the diamondbacks went through during Kevin Towers' years where they traded all their "spoiled, talented players" who made everything look easy for "gritty, tough role players with clutchness" and ended up with the worst team in baseball on huge, overpaid contracts. It's not a solution, and I pray to god I don't see the Suns try to go down that path. I just wish we'd play our actually talented players, like Booker and Warren, more minutes than guys like Price and Tucker, because with the season on the line we alarmingly haven't. Stats don't lie, at least not to this extent, and the coach is making decisions that you cannot find statistical backing for.

[garrick]

I don't really fault PJ being totally inept on offense it's just what he is same as Chandler.

[Eyeamok]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

[AtheJ415]

I don't really fault PJ being totally inept on offense it's just what he is same as Chandler.

I think you have to though. It's like saying you can't fault someone at the office for being too stupid in an area to be an effective employee. Yes, it's not really his fault if he wasn't born with the skills to do the job, but the reality is he can't get the job done. This is professional basketball, and he's not helping this team win when he's playing so many minutes.

[AtheJ415]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The real problem: It was run into the ground by Lance Blanks, a guy from the Spurs (and people should keep that in mind because so many are on board with any Spurs coach becoming our new HC), and Lon Babby. 3 years ago we had a team of aging nobodies and role players, plus the Laker picks, 1 of which was a late first, the other which is protected, and 2 2nd rounders. The reason for that was that we had missed on countless draft picks and gave deals to guys like Michael Beasley and Josh Childress. Markieff Morris was that regime's best pick, and we dealt with the usual issues of having a team of aging players. The cupboard was literally bear, and a full out rebuild was needed. The owner, Robert Sarver, is also at fault since these were his guys and he also hampered the organization with the reputation of being cheap in the past. He really hasn't been over the past decade at all, but it's hard to live down the initial impressions, and he'll always be known for selling first rounders during a title run.

In the 3 years since, we've drafted quite well, and traded quite well. Many will blame McDonough for this season, but he is the only positive from the non-players that I see. He's been everything that is right quite frankly if your goal is to rebuild instead of making the playoffs. Many here are oddly upset at him for losing while claiming they always advocated a full tanking rebuild. His player combinations have not worked well, but our coach also puts them in the worst positions to succeed with their rotations imo. We have young talent, fixed the PF problem (seriously, Tele and Leuer have been fine and shooting the 3 VERY well), and simply should be better this year. The talent level is not the problem even though we still need that 1st guy, but only 5 or 6 teams in basketball have those guys.

We went from Dudley, Gortat, Scola, Michael Beasley, Josh Childress, and the Morris twins, plus a protected first from the Lakers to what we have now in Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Bogdan, Knight, and Goodwin. From a rebuilding perspective, that is a huge win in terms of acquiring young talent for old guys with middling value at best. We got Bledsoe for Dudley and a 2nd. We drafted Len, Warren, and Booker. We re-signed the Morri at the time to what was seen as bargain contracts. We got 2 largely unprotected firsts for Dragic, which will pay dividends in a few years, another first for Thomas, a guy we signed to a bargain deal. We also have Bogdan coming over next year. Even Leuer, 26, you could add to the list of positives and he was grabbed for a 2nd rounder.

We did have a couple arguable losses in this GM/FO arena:

1. Signing Tyson Chandler to get Aldridge, who we lost out on. This could be a positive if we can move him for something of value, so it is still TBD. If we end up having to keep him for 4 years or giving up something to get rid of him, this is a big loss from a rebuilding perspective. If we move him for a first, it's a win. If we move him for an expiring, it's neither. We don't need older guys if we couldn't get Aldridge because we aren't contenders without him. Tyson was supposed to bring stability, leadership, and teach the youngsters how to play defense. He's done none of that imo.

2. Trading the Laker pick and Tyler Ennis (leaving Plumlee out because you can't simultaneously criticize or praise somebody for acquiring and then moving a player) for Brandon Knight. The laker pick is top 3 protected this year, so they will likely keep it. Even if they transmit it, it may yield a worse player than Knight, who is better than many of the 4th overall picks in recent history. It is still TBD imo, but many here will tell you it's a loss. Knight is a frustrating player to watch, because he does take a lot of off balance shots and his defense is bad, but he also hits a lot of those shots and shoots quite well. This depends on what the Laker Pick and Knight end up turning into, and whether Knight can ever become a defender, which is the thing keeping his advanced stats down.

A lot of the problems haven't been things that were controllable by anybody in the organization. The Morris twins took their new contract as a belief that they could do whatever the hell they wanted with no consequence. They chewed out the fans telling them they suck, the head coach on national tv, and then "allegedly" beat the hell out of someone at a community center and rolled out in their Phantom, resulting in felony assault charges which are still ongoing. All the while getting more technicals combined than many teams had, which cost us key games down the stretch in a year we should have made the playoffs. Accordingly, we traded one of the brothers, since they clearly couldn't function together. They, as the immature morons they are, took that as a personal affront in which they were somehow wronged and has lead to the Markieff cloud that has hung over the organization. None of it was really foreseeable imo. It was obvious Markieff would be upset, but not that he would respond how he has, putting up a career worst year and throwing stuff at the coach, while arguing with fans on social media and demanding trades.

Another expected leader, PJ Tucker, decided to go out and drink until he was like 23% BAC and get a new kind of DUI nobody has ever heard of.

I think Hornacek lost this team last season, when we technicalled ourselves out of contention. Tucker, Bledsoe, and the 2 Morri were the main culprits. Hornacek tried a few things, but ultimately was unable to solve that problem. I feel bad for him to an extent because these guys, particularly the Morri, are far from easy to deal with. That said, I've never seen such an out of control team ever, and there are teams that I think have as many or more knuckleheads out there (like Sac), and you have guys like Van Gundy claiming Marcus is easy to coach, so maybe it is all on Hornacek. Leadership overall, from coaches to players, was just awful and has been now for 2 years.

This season, our rotations are nonsense and our best young players don't see consistent time despite putting up better numbers than the vets. We have, despite what many say on here, an offense that performs well. It should be much better, but it would be good enough to make the playoffs if we weren't dead last in defense and near there in turnovers. The young talent continues to develop individual skills, but the team aspects like execution, defense, etc. all continue to show no improvement despite already having an incredibly low bar.

[bwgood77]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The vast majority would not want to do it the Hinkie, way, but there area handful that would like to see it. In the two drafts where you completely tanked and got a really high pick and we picked at the very end of the lottery, I'm not all that sure he has made better picks or gotten better players than we did. Okafor may be better than Booker but he has his faults and Booker has looked great so far. I'd probably take Warren over Embiid too. Embiid is a huge question mark who could end up being a franchise changer but I have no idea. Warren has looked great at times.

[AtheJ415]

From a 76ers standpoint, with Noel and Okafor playing like they are, what are your thoughts on Embiid? Are 76er fans ready to move him for help at the wing or the 1, or would they rather move one of the other bigs?

[RaisingArizona]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The real problem: It was run into the ground by Lance Blanks, a guy from the Spurs (and people should keep that in mind because so many are on board with any Spurs coach becoming our new HC), and Lon Babby. 3 years ago we had a team of aging nobodies and role players, plus the Laker picks, 1 of which was a late first, the other which is protected, and 2 2nd rounders. The reason for that was that we had missed on countless draft picks and gave deals to guys like Michael Beasley and Josh Childress. Markieff Morris was that regime's best pick, and we dealt with the usual issues of having a team of aging players. The cupboard was literally bear, and a full out rebuild was needed. The owner, Robert Sarver, is also at fault since these were his guys and he also hampered the organization with the reputation of being cheap in the past. He really hasn't been over the past decade at all, but it's hard to live down the initial impressions, and he'll always be known for selling first rounders during a title run.

In the 3 years since, we've drafted quite well, and traded quite well. Many will blame McDonough for this season, but he is the only positive from the non-players that I see. He's been everything that is right quite frankly if your goal is to rebuild instead of making the playoffs. Many here are oddly upset at him for losing while claiming they always advocated a full tanking rebuild. His player combinations have not worked well, but our coach also puts them in the worst positions to succeed with their rotations imo. We have young talent, fixed the PF problem (seriously, Tele and Leuer have been fine and shooting the 3 VERY well), and simply should be better this year. The talent level is not the problem even though we still need that 1st guy, but only 5 or 6 teams in basketball have those guys.

We went from Dudley, Gortat, Scola, Michael Beasley, Josh Childress, and the Morris twins, plus a protected first from the Lakers to what we have now in Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Bogdan, Knight, and Goodwin. From a rebuilding perspective, that is a huge win in terms of acquiring young talent for old guys with middling value at best. We got Bledsoe for Dudley and a 2nd. We drafted Len, Warren, and Booker. We re-signed the Morri at the time to what was seen as bargain contracts. We got 2 largely unprotected firsts for Dragic, which will pay dividends in a few years, another first for Thomas, a guy we signed to a bargain deal. We also have Bogdan coming over next year. Even Leuer, 26, you could add to the list of positives and he was grabbed for a 2nd rounder.

We did have a couple arguable losses in this GM/FO arena:

1. Signing Tyson Chandler to get Aldridge, who we lost out on. This could be a positive if we can move him for something of value, so it is still TBD. If we end up having to keep him for 4 years or giving up something to get rid of him, this is a big loss from a rebuilding perspective. If we move him for a first, it's a win. If we move him for an expiring, it's neither. We don't need older guys if we couldn't get Aldridge because we aren't contenders without him. Tyson was supposed to bring stability, leadership, and teach the youngsters how to play defense. He's done none of that imo.

2. Trading the Laker pick and Tyler Ennis (leaving Plumlee out because you can't simultaneously criticize or praise somebody for acquiring and then moving a player) for Brandon Knight. The laker pick is top 3 protected this year, so they will likely keep it. Even if they transmit it, it may yield a worse player than Knight, who is better than many of the 4th overall picks in recent history. It is still TBD imo, but many here will tell you it's a loss. Knight is a frustrating player to watch, because he does take a lot of off balance shots and his defense is bad, but he also hits a lot of those shots and shoots quite well. This depends on what the Laker Pick and Knight end up turning into, and whether Knight can ever become a defender, which is the thing keeping his advanced stats down.

A lot of the problems haven't been things that were controllable by anybody in the organization. The Morris twins took their new contract as a belief that they could do whatever the hell they wanted with no consequence. They chewed out the fans telling them they suck, the head coach on national tv, and then "allegedly" beat the hell out of someone at a community center and rolled out in their Phantom, resulting in felony assault charges which are still ongoing. All the while getting more technicals combined than many teams had, which cost us key games down the stretch in a year we should have made the playoffs. Accordingly, we traded one of the brothers, since they clearly couldn't function together. They, as the immature morons they are, took that as a personal affront in which they were somehow wronged and has lead to the Markieff cloud that has hung over the organization. None of it was really foreseeable imo. It was obvious Markieff would be upset, but not that he would respond how he has, putting up a career worst year and throwing stuff at the coach, while arguing with fans on social media and demanding trades.

Another expected leader, PJ Tucker, decided to go out and drink until he was like 23% BAC and get a new kind of DUI nobody has ever heard of.

I think Hornacek lost this team last season, when we technicalled ourselves out of contention. Tucker, Bledsoe, and the 2 Morri were the main culprits. Hornacek tried a few things, but ultimately was unable to solve that problem. I feel bad for him to an extent because these guys, particularly the Morri, are far from easy to deal with. That said, I've never seen such an out of control team ever, and there are teams that I think have as many or more knuckleheads out there (like Sac), and you have guys like Van Gundy claiming Marcus is easy to coach, so maybe it is all on Hornacek. Leadership overall, from coaches to players, was just awful and has been now for 2 years.

This season, our rotations are nonsense and our best young players don't see consistent time despite putting up better numbers than the vets. We have, despite what many say on here, an offense that performs well. It should be much better, but it would be good enough to make the playoffs if we weren't dead last in defense and near there in turnovers. The young talent continues to develop individual skills, but the team aspects like execution, defense, etc. all continue to show no improvement despite already having an incredibly low bar.

Yep. I attribute this disaster to bad coaching, stupid decisions by players, and players giving up.

What needs to happen:

1)Fire Hornacek. He's not coming back next year so might as well get an interim coach in there to see what happens.
2) Trade the dead weight: Tucker, Price, Chandler, Kieff.
3) Play the young guys, decide who is apart of this core or not.
4) Re-evaluate things in the offseason with our top 10 pick.

I also think it'd be a huge mistake to overreact and fire McD. Babby, Blanks, Sarver and Hornacek are 90% to blame on this.

[Eyeamok]

From a 76ers standpoint, with Noel and Okafor playing like they are, what are your thoughts on Embiid? Are 76er fans ready to move him for help at the wing or the 1, or would they rather move one of the other bigs?

No no no on moving on from Embiid. He is that mythical unicorn. He is like the phoenix. He will rise from the ashes of his injury to play great basketball for this team. Well that is the hope for a good deal of people on the board. Myself included.

I think most are hoping that with Ish we get to showcase Okafor and if/when Embiid comes back whoever can't play the PF spot will be moved. Most hope Okafor can play the 4 and from what I read it seems like Noel would be the odd man out. Me personally I would love to see Noel stay and Okafor go. But I'm just being a homer and it has nothing to do with value just tenure.

Most people seem to think we have a big enough cushion that we can still end up with the #1 pick overall and then figure out what we are going to do with all of the pieces after the draft.

[Eyeamok]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The real problem: It was run into the ground by Lance Blanks, a guy from the Spurs (and people should keep that in mind because so many are on board with any Spurs coach becoming our new HC), and Lon Babby. 3 years ago we had a team of aging nobodies and role players, plus the Laker picks, 1 of which was a late first, the other which is protected, and 2 2nd rounders. The reason for that was that we had missed on countless draft picks and gave deals to guys like Michael Beasley and Josh Childress. Markieff Morris was that regime's best pick, and we dealt with the usual issues of having a team of aging players. The cupboard was literally bear, and a full out rebuild was needed. The owner, Robert Sarver, is also at fault since these were his guys and he also hampered the organization with the reputation of being cheap in the past. He really hasn't been over the past decade at all, but it's hard to live down the initial impressions, and he'll always be known for selling first rounders during a title run.

In the 3 years since, we've drafted quite well, and traded quite well. Many will blame McDonough for this season, but he is the only positive from the non-players that I see. He's been everything that is right quite frankly if your goal is to rebuild instead of making the playoffs. Many here are oddly upset at him for losing while claiming they always advocated a full tanking rebuild. His player combinations have not worked well, but our coach also puts them in the worst positions to succeed with their rotations imo. We have young talent, fixed the PF problem (seriously, Tele and Leuer have been fine and shooting the 3 VERY well), and simply should be better this year. The talent level is not the problem even though we still need that 1st guy, but only 5 or 6 teams in basketball have those guys.

We went from Dudley, Gortat, Scola, Michael Beasley, Josh Childress, and the Morris twins, plus a protected first from the Lakers to what we have now in Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Bogdan, Knight, and Goodwin. From a rebuilding perspective, that is a huge win in terms of acquiring young talent for old guys with middling value at best. We got Bledsoe for Dudley and a 2nd. We drafted Len, Warren, and Booker. We re-signed the Morri at the time to what was seen as bargain contracts. We got 2 largely unprotected firsts for Dragic, which will pay dividends in a few years, another first for Thomas, a guy we signed to a bargain deal. We also have Bogdan coming over next year. Even Leuer, 26, you could add to the list of positives and he was grabbed for a 2nd rounder.

We did have a couple arguable losses in this GM/FO arena:

1. Signing Tyson Chandler to get Aldridge, who we lost out on. This could be a positive if we can move him for something of value, so it is still TBD. If we end up having to keep him for 4 years or giving up something to get rid of him, this is a big loss from a rebuilding perspective. If we move him for a first, it's a win. If we move him for an expiring, it's neither. We don't need older guys if we couldn't get Aldridge because we aren't contenders without him. Tyson was supposed to bring stability, leadership, and teach the youngsters how to play defense. He's done none of that imo.

2. Trading the Laker pick and Tyler Ennis (leaving Plumlee out because you can't simultaneously criticize or praise somebody for acquiring and then moving a player) for Brandon Knight. The laker pick is top 3 protected this year, so they will likely keep it. Even if they transmit it, it may yield a worse player than Knight, who is better than many of the 4th overall picks in recent history. It is still TBD imo, but many here will tell you it's a loss. Knight is a frustrating player to watch, because he does take a lot of off balance shots and his defense is bad, but he also hits a lot of those shots and shoots quite well. This depends on what the Laker Pick and Knight end up turning into, and whether Knight can ever become a defender, which is the thing keeping his advanced stats down.

A lot of the problems haven't been things that were controllable by anybody in the organization. The Morris twins took their new contract as a belief that they could do whatever the hell they wanted with no consequence. They chewed out the fans telling them they suck, the head coach on national tv, and then "allegedly" beat the hell out of someone at a community center and rolled out in their Phantom, resulting in felony assault charges which are still ongoing. All the while getting more technicals combined than many teams had, which cost us key games down the stretch in a year we should have made the playoffs. Accordingly, we traded one of the brothers, since they clearly couldn't function together. They, as the immature morons they are, took that as a personal affront in which they were somehow wronged and has lead to the Markieff cloud that has hung over the organization. None of it was really foreseeable imo. It was obvious Markieff would be upset, but not that he would respond how he has, putting up a career worst year and throwing stuff at the coach, while arguing with fans on social media and demanding trades.

Another expected leader, PJ Tucker, decided to go out and drink until he was like 23% BAC and get a new kind of DUI nobody has ever heard of.

I think Hornacek lost this team last season, when we technicalled ourselves out of contention. Tucker, Bledsoe, and the 2 Morri were the main culprits. Hornacek tried a few things, but ultimately was unable to solve that problem. I feel bad for him to an extent because these guys, particularly the Morri, are far from easy to deal with. That said, I've never seen such an out of control team ever, and there are teams that I think have as many or more knuckleheads out there (like Sac), and you have guys like Van Gundy claiming Marcus is easy to coach, so maybe it is all on Hornacek. Leadership overall, from coaches to players, was just awful and has been now for 2 years.

This season, our rotations are nonsense and our best young players don't see consistent time despite putting up better numbers than the vets. We have, despite what many say on here, an offense that performs well. It should be much better, but it would be good enough to make the playoffs if we weren't dead last in defense and near there in turnovers. The young talent continues to develop individual skills, but the team aspects like execution, defense, etc. all continue to show no improvement despite already having an incredibly low bar.

Thank you for that detailed account. I had no idea.

[Eyeamok]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The vast majority would not want to do it the Hinkie, way, but there area handful that would like to see it. In the two drafts where you completely tanked and got a really high pick and we picked at the very end of the lottery, I'm not all that sure he has made better picks or gotten better players than we did. Okafor may be better than Booker but he has his faults and Booker has looked great so far. I'd probably take Warren over Embiid too. Embiid is a huge question mark who could end up being a franchise changer but I have no idea. Warren has looked great at times.

Thank you too!

[Puff]

As a 76ers fan I come in peace. Just wanted to say I love the creativity on this thread.

Would the vast majority of the fans be down for a rebuild the way Hinkie has done it/is doing it in Philly?

It has been painful and hard. But if Jerry C and Pringles don't get in the way of this upcoming draft. I think we could be heading in the right direction finally.

I really enjoyed what I saw of Booker, he is a keeper. What would you say is/has been the main problem with the franchise?

The real problem: It was run into the ground by Lance Blanks, a guy from the Spurs (and people should keep that in mind because so many are on board with any Spurs coach becoming our new HC), and Lon Babby. 3 years ago we had a team of aging nobodies and role players, plus the Laker picks, 1 of which was a late first, the other which is protected, and 2 2nd rounders. The reason for that was that we had missed on countless draft picks and gave deals to guys like Michael Beasley and Josh Childress. Markieff Morris was that regime's best pick, and we dealt with the usual issues of having a team of aging players. The cupboard was literally bear, and a full out rebuild was needed. The owner, Robert Sarver, is also at fault since these were his guys and he also hampered the organization with the reputation of being cheap in the past. He really hasn't been over the past decade at all, but it's hard to live down the initial impressions, and he'll always be known for selling first rounders during a title run.

In the 3 years since, we've drafted quite well, and traded quite well. Many will blame McDonough for this season, but he is the only positive from the non-players that I see. He's been everything that is right quite frankly if your goal is to rebuild instead of making the playoffs. Many here are oddly upset at him for losing while claiming they always advocated a full tanking rebuild. His player combinations have not worked well, but our coach also puts them in the worst positions to succeed with their rotations imo. We have young talent, fixed the PF problem (seriously, Tele and Leuer have been fine and shooting the 3 VERY well), and simply should be better this year. The talent level is not the problem even though we still need that 1st guy, but only 5 or 6 teams in basketball have those guys.

We went from Dudley, Gortat, Scola, Michael Beasley, Josh Childress, and the Morris twins, plus a protected first from the Lakers to what we have now in Bledsoe, Booker, Len, Warren, Bogdan, Knight, and Goodwin. From a rebuilding perspective, that is a huge win in terms of acquiring young talent for old guys with middling value at best. We got Bledsoe for Dudley and a 2nd. We drafted Len, Warren, and Booker. We re-signed the Morri at the time to what was seen as bargain contracts. We got 2 largely unprotected firsts for Dragic, which will pay dividends in a few years, another first for Thomas, a guy we signed to a bargain deal. We also have Bogdan coming over next year. Even Leuer, 26, you could add to the list of positives and he was grabbed for a 2nd rounder.

We did have a couple arguable losses in this GM/FO arena:

1. Signing Tyson Chandler to get Aldridge, who we lost out on. This could be a positive if we can move him for something of value, so it is still TBD. If we end up having to keep him for 4 years or giving up something to get rid of him, this is a big loss from a rebuilding perspective. If we move him for a first, it's a win. If we move him for an expiring, it's neither. We don't need older guys if we couldn't get Aldridge because we aren't contenders without him. Tyson was supposed to bring stability, leadership, and teach the youngsters how to play defense. He's done none of that imo.

2. Trading the Laker pick and Tyler Ennis (leaving Plumlee out because you can't simultaneously criticize or praise somebody for acquiring and then moving a player) for Brandon Knight. The laker pick is top 3 protected this year, so they will likely keep it. Even if they transmit it, it may yield a worse player than Knight, who is better than many of the 4th overall picks in recent history. It is still TBD imo, but many here will tell you it's a loss. Knight is a frustrating player to watch, because he does take a lot of off balance shots and his defense is bad, but he also hits a lot of those shots and shoots quite well. This depends on what the Laker Pick and Knight end up turning into, and whether Knight can ever become a defender, which is the thing keeping his advanced stats down.

A lot of the problems haven't been things that were controllable by anybody in the organization. The Morris twins took their new contract as a belief that they could do whatever the hell they wanted with no consequence. They chewed out the fans telling them they suck, the head coach on national tv, and then "allegedly" beat the hell out of someone at a community center and rolled out in their Phantom, resulting in felony assault charges which are still ongoing. All the while getting more technicals combined than many teams had, which cost us key games down the stretch in a year we should have made the playoffs. Accordingly, we traded one of the brothers, since they clearly couldn't function together. They, as the immature morons they are, took that as a personal affront in which they were somehow wronged and has lead to the Markieff cloud that has hung over the organization. None of it was really foreseeable imo. It was obvious Markieff would be upset, but not that he would respond how he has, putting up a career worst year and throwing stuff at the coach, while arguing with fans on social media and demanding trades.

Another expected leader, PJ Tucker, decided to go out and drink until he was like 23% BAC and get a new kind of DUI nobody has ever heard of.

I think Hornacek lost this team last season, when we technicalled ourselves out of contention. Tucker, Bledsoe, and the 2 Morri were the main culprits. Hornacek tried a few things, but ultimately was unable to solve that problem. I feel bad for him to an extent because these guys, particularly the Morri, are far from easy to deal with. That said, I've never seen such an out of control team ever, and there are teams that I think have as many or more knuckleheads out there (like Sac), and you have guys like Van Gundy claiming Marcus is easy to coach, so maybe it is all on Hornacek. Leadership overall, from coaches to players, was just awful and has been now for 2 years.

This season, our rotations are nonsense and our best young players don't see consistent time despite putting up better numbers than the vets. We have, despite what many say on here, an offense that performs well. It should be much better, but it would be good enough to make the playoffs if we weren't dead last in defense and near there in turnovers. The young talent continues to develop individual skills, but the team aspects like execution, defense, etc. all continue to show no improvement despite already having an incredibly low bar.

Yep. I attribute this disaster to bad coaching, stupid decisions by players, and players giving up.

What needs to happen:

1)Fire Hornacek. He's not coming back next year so might as well get an interim coach in there to see what happens.
2) Trade the dead weight: Tucker, Price, Chandler, Kieff.
3) Play the young guys, decide who is apart of this core or not.
4) Re-evaluate things in the offseason with our top 10 pick.

I also think it'd be a huge mistake to overreact and fire McD. Babby, Blanks, Sarver and Hornacek are 90% to blame on this.

Great post

Simple and to the point. I could not agree more. It is so obvious that is what needs to be done it is stupid.

[NavLDO]

Eh....not really. I work in IT, but also do computer building/repair on the side. Then on the side of that i sell bootlegs (DVD's/Programs/Music/Etc.).

Its kinda more like a hobby of mine.

Being a computer expert, what would you recommend using for anti virus? I am probably going to get a new laptop soon, and I'd like to make sure it lasts a bit. Of course using firstrow links probably doesn't help.

If you find a virus or malware that an Antivirus program can't get rid of I recommend using malware bytes which is free and has saved my ass whenever a pesky virus refused to go away.

I think it's freeware so you can install it and use it for a limited time so I really only use it when all the other programs just can't do the job.

Is there a similar program, like Mal-Suns Bytes, to get rid of pesky crap players on our team to improve performance? If so, please share that program as well. I doubt it would be 'freeware', but I'm ok with paying whatever is necessary; Sarver might as well.

[Cutter]

The end is getting closer for Hornacek.

Per RealGM Wiretap:

The head coaching job of Jeff Hornacek with the Phoenix Suns is in jeopardy as they now have a 5-15 record over their past 20 games.

Phoenix began the season with playoff aspirations after posting records of 48-34 and 39-43 in Hornacek's first two seasons.

The Suns are currently 12-20 and 11th in the Western Conference.

There are fears within the organization the players are no longer responding to Hornacek.

[TeamTragic]

"We’re not doing the things we set out to do early,” said Tucker. “Not continuously holding each other accountable doing the things we’re supposed to do better each and every game. Something better change quick, it could get really ugly, really fast.”

"Yeah, obviously it’s probably a low point for us.” said head coach Jeff Hornacek. “We started off decently, but we got things here or there where we blew a couple games, had some leads in some games and then this last stretch I think we lost a little bit of confidence.”

http://arizonasports.com/story/499961/suns-suffer-crushing-loss-to-the-76ers/

Hornacek is like yeah we lost and this is a low point. He doesn't even care himself

The end is getting closer for Hornacek.

Per RealGM Wiretap:

The head coaching job of Jeff Hornacek with the Phoenix Suns is in jeopardy as they now have a 5-15 record over their past 20 games.

Phoenix began the season with playoff aspirations after posting records of 48-34 and 39-43 in Hornacek's first two seasons.

The Suns are currently 12-20 and 11th in the Western Conference.

There are fears within the organization the players are no longer responding to Hornacek.

There are just now "fears" that he lost the team? Not before right? That train left the station weeks ago. I swear the FO is either wasted or they don't watch a single game

[Damkac]

I had the feeling that Suns will lose it. It's just a perfect conclusion of what's happening with the team lately.

Now I hope even Sarver see that there is no hope for Suns season. And Bled is also injured. Suns have no other options than tanking/developing youth at this point.

Only positive about that game:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6YebdJDyiA[/youtube]

[DRK]

"We’re not doing the things we set out to do early,” said Tucker. “Not continuously holding each other accountable doing the things we’re supposed to do better each and every game. Something better change quick, it could get really ugly, really fast.”

"Yeah, obviously it’s probably a low point for us.” said head coach Jeff Hornacek. “We started off decently, but we got things here or there where we blew a couple games, had some leads in some games and then this last stretch I think we lost a little bit of confidence.”

http://arizonasports.com/story/499961/suns-suffer-crushing-loss-to-the-76ers/

How about holding yourself accountable for your rubbish play this season PJ?

[Revived]

"We’re not doing the things we set out to do early,” said Tucker. “Not continuously holding each other accountable doing the things we’re supposed to do better each and every game. Something better change quick, it could get really ugly, really fast.”

"Yeah, obviously it’s probably a low point for us.” said head coach Jeff Hornacek. “We started off decently, but we got things here or there where we blew a couple games, had some leads in some games and then this last stretch I think we lost a little bit of confidence.”

http://arizonasports.com/story/499961/suns-suffer-crushing-loss-to-the-76ers/

How about holding yourself accountable for your rubbish play this season PJ?

Nah too much to ask. He constantly complains about everything but never a "It starts with me, I should probably start knocking down some of these wide open looks I get and maybe trim down my weight so that I can actually be this great defender that I'm supposed to be".