Good Zach Lowe piece: "Sorting through the drama in Phoenix"

[rsavaj]

I've been waiting for Lowe's take on the squad for a while, and he delivered a solid take(IMO):
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14451352/the-suns-belief-competitive-building-future-taken-toll

What do you guys think?

[saintEscaton]

Its on point IMO. I agree with Lowe that the FO must take the majority of the blame for its personnel moves lack of continuity with roster turnover and stubborn commitment to the dead end strategy of conbuilding

[bwgood77]

I've been waiting for Lowe's take on the squad for a while, and he delivered a solid take(IMO):
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14451352/the-suns-belief-competitive-building-future-taken-toll

What do you guys think?

Thanks, I was just looking for his take earlier...will update this post once I read.

Edit: Yeah, Zach right on the money as usual.

[Kerrsed]

Maybe its just me, but i dont see the whole fascination with Luke Walton. Sure, he went to UofA, but besides being the interim HC of the Warriors, what makes him such a great choice. On top of that, who knows what happens with GS after the season. Kerr might not be there, therefore why would he leave his current situation in GS coaching on of the best teams in the past decade for our lowly group of lovable losers.

[bwgood77]

Maybe its just me, but i dont see the whole fascination with Luke Walton. Sure, he went to UofA, but besides being the interim HC of the Warriors, what makes him such a great choice. On top of that, who knows what happens with GS after the season. Kerr might not be there, therefore why would he leave his current situation in GS coaching on of the best teams in the past decade for our lowly group of lovable losers.

It's not just you. I want someone with far more pedigree with him. If it happens, I'll have to be ok with it, and I am glad he is watching how to play perfect team basketball, but just because there are people that say we need to play like SA and GS, that doesn't mean we have the players to do it.

I would like a guy that has worked under a coach who knows how to get more out of less with players. That's why I was looking at Carlisle's assistants, since I think he is one coach that consistently gets more out of less wherever he goes.

If I looked at college coaches, I would look at guys more in the mold of Stevens who didn't do well because they simply had better players than anyone else in basketball (thus the reason I think Calipari is a bad choice...even though he'd never leave)...Calipari and Pitino were terrible in the NBA. I'd go with a guy that maybe overachieved with a mid major or any team with less talent than the big boys.

[Revived]

Zach Lowe couldn't be more correct

As I've written before, the weird series of deals in which Phoenix effectively exchanged Isaiah Thomas and a lightly-protected first-round pick from the Lakers -- top-3 protected in both '16 and 17, then unprotected and one of the most valuable trade chips in the league -- for Brandon Knight and a Cleveland first-rounder will almost certainly end up a net-loss. Depending on the fate of that Lakers pick, protected if it's top-3 this season and unprotected afterward, it could be a devastating net loss the franchise regrets for years. There are reasonable ways to defend the deals, but Phoenix clearly sold low on Thomas and his insanely cheap contract; he might be better than Knight straight up, even without Knight's positional versatility. There is real opportunity cost there, and in spending cap space on Tyson Chandler.

But chaos takes its toll anyway. The Detroit trade alienated Markieff Morris, and he has failed horribly to deliver on his promise as a playmaking four around those Chandler pick-and-rolls. The Knight-Bledsoe pairing has been awkward, and has created some minor locker-room tension, according to sources familiar with the matter. Both thrive as lead ball-handlers, and Knight has bristled over the years whenever anyone has labeled him as something other than a pure point guard.

It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is on Hornacek and his staff, including the deposed Longabardi, a Tom Thibodeau acolyte in charge of the defense. (Longabardi is a smart, workaholic coach who will land on his feet -- perhaps with Thibodeau). Morris has checked out. Bledsoe should be an elite defender, but he half-asses his way through too many possessions. Chandler's hamstring injury hurt. The rotation has been in disarray. Warren and Booker have done well on offense, but they're understandably behind on the other end. Both received spot starts, but it's clear Hornacek trusts the veteran know-how of Tucker and others.

Len and Chandler have flip-flopped starter and backup roles, highlighting Chandler's awkward fit. The Suns signed Chandler as a lure for Aldridge, and talked optimistically about how they could find enough minutes for both Chandler and Len. Aldridge chose the Spurs, and now Chander is just kind of here -- playing 35 minutes one night, 15 the next, the threat of his lob dunk neutered by working in so-so spacing [b]with score-first guards who love pull-up jumpers.[/b] Playing five-man defense on a string takes chemistry, and this hasn't been the best environment for developing it.

[phnart]

Good read...and spot on. One thing I can't quite get a good feel for, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, is just what exactly is the best role for B. Knight? At times, watching him, I can't help but really like his game. He's got some swagger, quick release, a little fire... then poof, it all goes away and he pouts, makes faces at Bledsoe, and completely forgets about defense. It will be interesting to see what he can do over the next month or so when the team is his.

[bwgood77]

Zach Lowe couldn't be more correct

As I've written before, the weird series of deals in which Phoenix effectively exchanged Isaiah Thomas and a lightly-protected first-round pick from the Lakers -- top-3 protected in both '16 and 17, then unprotected and one of the most valuable trade chips in the league -- for Brandon Knight and a Cleveland first-rounder will almost certainly end up a net-loss. Depending on the fate of that Lakers pick, protected if it's top-3 this season and unprotected afterward, it could be a devastating net loss the franchise regrets for years. There are reasonable ways to defend the deals, but Phoenix clearly sold low on Thomas and his insanely cheap contract; he might be better than Knight straight up, even without Knight's positional versatility. There is real opportunity cost there, and in spending cap space on Tyson Chandler.

But chaos takes its toll anyway. The Detroit trade alienated Markieff Morris, and he has failed horribly to deliver on his promise as a playmaking four around those Chandler pick-and-rolls. The Knight-Bledsoe pairing has been awkward, and has created some minor locker-room tension, according to sources familiar with the matter. Both thrive as lead ball-handlers, and Knight has bristled over the years whenever anyone has labeled him as something other than a pure point guard.

It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is on Hornacek and his staff, including the deposed Longabardi, a Tom Thibodeau acolyte in charge of the defense. (Longabardi is a smart, workaholic coach who will land on his feet -- perhaps with Thibodeau). Morris has checked out. Bledsoe should be an elite defender, but he half-asses his way through too many possessions. Chandler's hamstring injury hurt. The rotation has been in disarray. Warren and Booker have done well on offense, but they're understandably behind on the other end. Both received spot starts, but it's clear Hornacek trusts the veteran know-how of Tucker and others.

Len and Chandler have flip-flopped starter and backup roles, highlighting Chandler's awkward fit. The Suns signed Chandler as a lure for Aldridge, and talked optimistically about how they could find enough minutes for both Chandler and Len. Aldridge chose the Spurs, and now Chander is just kind of here -- playing 35 minutes one night, 15 the next, the threat of his lob dunk neutered by working in so-so spacing [b]with score-first guards who love pull-up jumpers.[/b] Playing five-man defense on a string takes chemistry, and this hasn't been the best environment for developing it.

I was just thinking about posting something about that too. I've often seen Knight WIDE open at the 3 pt line waving his arms while Bledsoe drives into heavy traffic to throw up a bad contested shot. Knight will get tunnel vision too..

Like I mentioned in the other thread, when McD makes a trade and tells him he will start, I'm not really sure what Hornacek is supposed to do, especially if they both want to be primary point guards. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I'm not excusing everything Hornacek as done, as he has certainly made his share of mistakes, but when people always say "Hornacek and his 2 pg system" I cringe a little since he really hasn't had much choice. Though I do feel that after they start, unless their chemistry is perfect, they should alternate to a larger extent. Then again, Knight is pretty terrible at being a primary ball handler. He should just accept that he is a 2 guard unless he wants to be a backup pg. But he probably is a better starting pure 2 than a backup pg anyway, despite the size.

Again, hoping they improve over time and develop chemistry because I doubt either goes anywhere soon. Interested to see how another coach handles it.

[kennydorglas]

Great read, except for all the praise for Longabardi.

[Revived]

Zach Lowe couldn't be more correct

As I've written before, the weird series of deals in which Phoenix effectively exchanged Isaiah Thomas and a lightly-protected first-round pick from the Lakers -- top-3 protected in both '16 and 17, then unprotected and one of the most valuable trade chips in the league -- for Brandon Knight and a Cleveland first-rounder will almost certainly end up a net-loss. Depending on the fate of that Lakers pick, protected if it's top-3 this season and unprotected afterward, it could be a devastating net loss the franchise regrets for years. There are reasonable ways to defend the deals, but Phoenix clearly sold low on Thomas and his insanely cheap contract; he might be better than Knight straight up, even without Knight's positional versatility. There is real opportunity cost there, and in spending cap space on Tyson Chandler.

But chaos takes its toll anyway. The Detroit trade alienated Markieff Morris, and he has failed horribly to deliver on his promise as a playmaking four around those Chandler pick-and-rolls. The Knight-Bledsoe pairing has been awkward, and has created some minor locker-room tension, according to sources familiar with the matter. Both thrive as lead ball-handlers, and Knight has bristled over the years whenever anyone has labeled him as something other than a pure point guard.

It's hard to know from the outside how much of this is on Hornacek and his staff, including the deposed Longabardi, a Tom Thibodeau acolyte in charge of the defense. (Longabardi is a smart, workaholic coach who will land on his feet -- perhaps with Thibodeau). Morris has checked out. Bledsoe should be an elite defender, but he half-asses his way through too many possessions. Chandler's hamstring injury hurt. The rotation has been in disarray. Warren and Booker have done well on offense, but they're understandably behind on the other end. Both received spot starts, but it's clear Hornacek trusts the veteran know-how of Tucker and others.

Len and Chandler have flip-flopped starter and backup roles, highlighting Chandler's awkward fit. The Suns signed Chandler as a lure for Aldridge, and talked optimistically about how they could find enough minutes for both Chandler and Len. Aldridge chose the Spurs, and now Chander is just kind of here -- playing 35 minutes one night, 15 the next, the threat of his lob dunk neutered by working in so-so spacing [b]with score-first guards who love pull-up jumpers.[/b] Playing five-man defense on a string takes chemistry, and this hasn't been the best environment for developing it.

I was just thinking about posting something about that too. I've often seen Knight WIDE open at the 3 pt line waving his arms while Bledsoe drives into heavy traffic to throw up a bad contested shot. Knight will get tunnel vision too..

Like I mentioned in the other thread, when McD makes a trade and tells him he will start, I'm not really sure what Hornacek is supposed to do, especially if they both want to be primary point guards. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I'm not excusing everything Hornacek as done, as he has certainly made his share of mistakes, but when people always say "Hornacek and his 2 pg system" I cringe a little since he really hasn't had much choice. Though I do feel that after they start, unless their chemistry is perfect, they should alternate to a larger extent. Then again, Knight is pretty terrible at being a primary ball handler. He should just accept that he is a 2 guard unless he wants to be a backup pg. But he probably is a better starting pure 2 than a backup pg anyway, despite the size.

Again, hoping they improve over time and develop chemistry because I doubt either goes anywhere soon. Interested to see how another coach handles it.

I always thought Hornacek wanted the two PG system and that McD was giving him the PGs for it.

If McD is the one forcing the two PGs on to Hornacek then that changes everything in my opinion.

[bwgood77]

I always thought Hornacek wanted the two PG system and that McD was giving him the PGs for it.

If McD is the one forcing the two PGs on to Hornacek then that changes everything in my opinion.

I've seen you say that. I don't think McD would really allow a coach to dictate his moves. I don't know that McD planned on it from day one, and guessing he was originally planning on trading Dragic sooner in year one, but after things worked as well as they did, he thought Hornacek style made them tough to stop, so gave him those players.

I think Hornacek would rather have a two guard more in the mold of himself, who has a good handle, but is more of a traditional SG, or at least become one. I mean KJ was DEFINITELY the primary PG with him, as was Stockton. If you end up with two guys who are unhappy as SGs, that's always going to be a problem.

[AtheJ415]

Good read...and spot on. One thing I can't quite get a good feel for, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, is just what exactly is the best role for B. Knight? At times, watching him, I can't help but really like his game. He's got some swagger, quick release, a little fire... then poof, it all goes away and he pouts, makes faces at Bledsoe, and completely forgets about defense. It will be interesting to see what he can do over the next month or so when the team is his.

He should be a 2 guard. They need to stop calling him a dual PG. He's plays like, and ought to be used like, a 2 guard. They need to be able to get him to embrace that.

[Saberestar]

Good read...and spot on. One thing I can't quite get a good feel for, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, is just what exactly is the best role for B. Knight? At times, watching him, I can't help but really like his game. He's got some swagger, quick release, a little fire... then poof, it all goes away and he pouts, makes faces at Bledsoe, and completely forgets about defense. It will be interesting to see what he can do over the next month or so when the team is his.

Third guard, coming from the bench but playing at least 25 minutes, similar to Jet Terry role in Dallas or Jamal Crawford.

[AtheJ415]

I always thought Hornacek wanted the two PG system and that McD was giving him the PGs for it.

If McD is the one forcing the two PGs on to Hornacek then that changes everything in my opinion.

I've seen you say that. I don't think McD would really allow a coach to dictate his moves. I don't know that McD planned on it from day one, and guessing he was originally planning on trading Dragic sooner in year one, but after things worked as well as they did, he thought Hornacek style made them tough to stop, so gave him those players.

I think Hornacek would rather have a two guard more in the mold of himself, who has a good handle, but is more of a traditional SG, or at least become one. I mean KJ was DEFINITELY the primary PG with him, as was Stockton. If you end up with two guys who are unhappy as SGs, that's always going to be a problem.

If this was true, wouldn't he play Booker more and Ronnie freaking Price less?

[AtheJ415]

I liked this part: "That is true, but look again that 2013-14 Suns roster and ask yourself what cornerstone young players the Suns have forsaken to build their current mishmash team. Marcus Morris is the only candidate. He'd be the Suns' best small forward now, but Marcus Morris alone is not determining the fate of any franchise. The Suns did not destroy a young team destined to grow into a contender."

I don't think the surprise year messed things up the way many do. We ended up getting young talent that is good regardless of the pick. We didn't trade for vets at the expense of anyone.

Although I think he's mischaracterizing Marcus being the best SF on this team. TJ is way better imo, particularly when you factor in the attitude aspect.

The solution is pretty easy to me:

Trade the dead weight: That means Tucker, Markieff, Chandler, and Price
Shore up the rotations: Stop going all offense or all defense and making mindblowing decisions to put guys in scenarios that they have proven to suck at.
Get the team, and Knight in particular, to buy in: Guys have roles changed all the time. Coaches are able to make this work with other teams all the time. Hornacek needs to get him to buy into the role he needs him to play on both ends of the court. And for all the discussion of offensive tension between Knight and Bledsoe, their offensive numbers are really good. It's their defense that has been a problem.

[bwgood77]

I always thought Hornacek wanted the two PG system and that McD was giving him the PGs for it.

If McD is the one forcing the two PGs on to Hornacek then that changes everything in my opinion.

I've seen you say that. I don't think McD would really allow a coach to dictate his moves. I don't know that McD planned on it from day one, and guessing he was originally planning on trading Dragic sooner in year one, but after things worked as well as they did, he thought Hornacek style made them tough to stop, so gave him those players.

I think Hornacek would rather have a two guard more in the mold of himself, who has a good handle, but is more of a traditional SG, or at least become one. I mean KJ was DEFINITELY the primary PG with him, as was Stockton. If you end up with two guys who are unhappy as SGs, that's always going to be a problem.

If this was true, wouldn't he play Booker more and Ronnie freaking Price less?

I think this is why he HAS been playing Booker so much as a young rookie, trying starting him, etc. Price is really the only other pure point guard other than Bledsoe though, so I can see why he plays some. I definitely think Booker will play more as the season goes on, but Price might play quite a bit now since he is the only guy that is really a pg left. I think Hornacek probably see's a lot of himself in Booker, and is why he gives him all the minute he does. I'm guessing he would rather have Booker on the team than Knight if he had to choose (particularly with a healthy Bledsoe). That's the reason guys like Archie don't play, and Warren until he became a pretty good 3 pt shooter. He values shooting, as do most teams, even more so today.

[bwgood77]

I liked this part: "That is true, but look again that 2013-14 Suns roster and ask yourself what cornerstone young players the Suns have forsaken to build their current mishmash team. Marcus Morris is the only candidate. He'd be the Suns' best small forward now, but Marcus Morris alone is not determining the fate of any franchise. The Suns did not destroy a young team destined to grow into a contender."

I don't think the surprise year messed things up the way many do. We ended up getting young talent that is good regardless of the pick. We didn't trade for vets at the expense of anyone.

Although I think he's mischaracterizing Marcus being the best SF on this team. TJ is way better imo, particularly when you factor in the attitude aspect.

The solution is pretty easy to me:

Trade the dead weight: That means Tucker, Markieff, Chandler, and Price
Shore up the rotations: Stop going all offense or all defense and making mindblowing decisions to put guys in scenarios that they have proven to suck at.
Get the team, and Knight in particular, to buy in: Guys have roles changed all the time. Coaches are able to make this work with other teams all the time. Hornacek needs to get him to buy into the role he needs him to play on both ends of the court. And for all the discussion of offensive tension between Knight and Bledsoe, their offensive numbers are really good. It's their defense that has been a problem.

I used to really not understand why Price played at all. But after watching Knight continue to get the ball taken right out of his hands, or just lose the dribble, I now understand why Price is needed. I mean I wish we had Ennis or like you mentioned McConnell, and in that case, I'd be fine dumping Price, but since the goal still seems to be playoffs, we cannot have no decent ballhandler out there running the offense, particularly while Bledsoe is out.

Now if the approach was to tank (and it probably should be), I'd be fine getting rid of Price. But I think guys like Warren and Booker might even develop more quickly if they played with Price than Knight, because he would likely get them more involved.

Totally fine dumping the other guys though regardless.

[Puff]

I have no idea how he can say that Hornacek is a good coach. He lost my interest when he said that. Lowe acts like everything is someone else's fault. A coach can only be as good as his teams performance and this team has sucked for a while.

He has been a bad coach going on two years now.

1. His team does not play hard every night
2. His team runs a lousy offense
3. His team cannot defend
4. He has lost the locker room
5. His rotations are beyond stupid.
6. His team has lost virtually every close game it has been in for 2 years.
7. His end of game plays usually have been watching a Bledsoe drive to the basket while falling on his ass.
8. He complains about the players after every loss yet the same players continue to get minutes
etc etc etc

This is not a good coach, IMHO.

[Revived]

I liked this part: "That is true, but look again that 2013-14 Suns roster and ask yourself what cornerstone young players the Suns have forsaken to build their current mishmash team. Marcus Morris is the only candidate. He'd be the Suns' best small forward now, but Marcus Morris alone is not determining the fate of any franchise. The Suns did not destroy a young team destined to grow into a contender."

I don't think the surprise year messed things up the way many do. We ended up getting young talent that is good regardless of the pick. We didn't trade for vets at the expense of anyone.

Although I think he's mischaracterizing Marcus being the best SF on this team. TJ is way better imo, particularly when you factor in the attitude aspect.

The solution is pretty easy to me:

Trade the dead weight: That means Tucker, Markieff, Chandler, and Price
Shore up the rotations: Stop going all offense or all defense and making mindblowing decisions to put guys in scenarios that they have proven to suck at.
Get the team, and Knight in particular, to buy in: Guys have roles changed all the time. Coaches are able to make this work with other teams all the time. Hornacek needs to get him to buy into the role he needs him to play on both ends of the court. And for all the discussion of offensive tension between Knight and Bledsoe, their offensive numbers are really good. It's their defense that has been a problem.

I used to really not understand why Price played at all. But after watching Knight continue to get the ball taken right out of his hands, or just lose the dribble, I now understand why Price is needed. I mean I wish we had Ennis or like you mentioned McConnell, and in that case, I'd be fine dumping Price, but since the goal still seems to be playoffs, we cannot have no decent ballhandler out there running the offense, particularly while Bledsoe is out.

Now if the approach was to tank (and it probably should be), I'd be fine getting rid of Price. But I think guys like Warren and Booker might even develop more quickly if they played with Price than Knight, because he would likely get them more involved.

Totally fine dumping the other guys though regardless.

Price is probably more of a PG and has better court vision than Knight.

[aIvin adams]

I've been waiting for Lowe's take on the squad for a while, and he delivered a solid take(IMO):
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14451352/the-suns-belief-competitive-building-future-taken-toll

What do you guys think?

it's true... all of it. the injuries, the towels, the trades. they're real.