Jon Leuer

[Jsun947]

Tell me about Jon Leuer.

I have to admit I haven't seen him play in games last year much. Statistically he put up very solid numbers as a starter. His shooting was solid all over the floor. I don't understand why he didn't get more time.

What was his strengths, what was his weaknesses?

How much do you think he's worth as a free agent?

[Saberestar]

IMO he is a below average PF who is a decent rebounder and scorer.

He doesn't provide too much defensively, he cares but he is not strong/wide enough to fight inside and doesn't protect the rim by any means.

Serious player that accepts any role on the team, too bad that he is not good enough to be an important player in this league.

He can play some minutes here and there, but if you want to have a playoff team he can not be more than your fourth big in the rotation.

I don't want him back with the team because he is soooo average at best on everything and he is not a good fit on a rebuilding team.

Right now I think his value around the league is gonna be around $5M per year. $15M/3 years for example.

[lilfishi22]

I personally think it was silly not to play Leuer more. His only competition after we moved Kieff was Teletovic. Granted, Telly was the better 3PT shooter and better overall scorer (38% from the 3 on 1.6 attempts and 16ppg per36 for Leuer vs 39% from the 3 on 5.8 attempts and 21ppg per36 for Telly) and Telly is the more reliable scorer of the two.

I would've preferred to play Leuer more because of his rebounding, better defensive abilities and youth. He also managed to score at a respectable .48FG% clip.

I would love to see him return to the team. I think his age and abilities would be a good fit for this team going forward while not costing too much. I see him as a Nick Collison type player who will work and play hard, is a good team mate with no ego who knows his role and stick around on a very cap-friendly contract. No, he isn't the 20/10 guy we need but no team expects a 20/10 guy coming off the bench and every team needs a players who know their role and just play hard when called upon.

I think something around $20/3 would be fair considering his youth and the increasing salary cap.

[bwgood77]

Tell me about Jon Leuer.

I have to admit I haven't seen him play in games last year much. Statistically he put up very solid numbers as a starter. His shooting was solid all over the floor. I don't understand why he didn't get more time.

What was his strengths, what was his weaknesses?

How much do you think he's worth as a free agent?

He is a smart player who is very good at the little things...a team player. Can make the right pass, fight for rebounds, hit 3s, etc. I'd love to see him back. It seems like we are more attached to Teletovic, and him to us though , so I don't expect him back. But he did play as well as any PF that started for us this year, as did our team when he did.

Teletovic, though, is strictly a role player and Leuer is a much better all around player, and younger.

[gaspar]

Tell me about Jon Leuer.

I have to admit I haven't seen him play in games last year much. Statistically he put up very solid numbers as a starter. His shooting was solid all over the floor. I don't understand why he didn't get more time.

What was his strengths, what was his weaknesses?

How much do you think he's worth as a free agent?

He is a smart player who is very good at the little things...a team player. Can make the right pass, fight for rebounds, hit 3s, etc. I'd love to see him back. It seems like we are more attached to Teletovic, and him to us though , so I don't expect him back. But he did play as well as any PF that started for us this year, as did our team when he did.

Teletovic, though, is strictly a role player and Leuer is a much better all around player, and younger.

I disagree. Leuer is just a role player whose only advantage over Mirza is rebounding, but overall Teletovic is a much better player, IMO. Tele makes a big difference on offense and can win you games by himself. Leuer is just a replacement level player.

[aIvin adams]

Tell me about Jon Leuer.

I have to admit I haven't seen him play in games last year much. Statistically he put up very solid numbers as a starter. His shooting was solid all over the floor. I don't understand why he didn't get more time.

What was his strengths, what was his weaknesses?

How much do you think he's worth as a free agent?

He is a smart player who is very good at the little things...a team player. Can make the right pass, fight for rebounds, hit 3s, etc. I'd love to see him back. It seems like we are more attached to Teletovic, and him to us though , so I don't expect him back. But he did play as well as any PF that started for us this year, as did our team when he did.

Teletovic, though, is strictly a role player and Leuer is a much better all around player, and younger.

i like Leuer but you guys are underestimating Teletovic's effectiveness as a scorer this year IMO.

he started off slow but by the end of the year he had put together an impressive season:

Mirza had 23 more 3PMs than Kevin Love (#14 overall in the League)

Mirza finished among the league leaders in eFG% (#20)

ETA-

I disagree. Leuer is just a role player whose only advantage over Mirza is rebounding, but overall Teletovic is a much better player, IMO. Tele makes a big difference on offense and can win you games by himself. Leuer is just a replacement level player.

yah. this

[aIvin adams]

nothing further to add to the convo ...just thought this pic belonged in this thread ASAP

[bwgood77]

Tell me about Jon Leuer.

I have to admit I haven't seen him play in games last year much. Statistically he put up very solid numbers as a starter. His shooting was solid all over the floor. I don't understand why he didn't get more time.

What was his strengths, what was his weaknesses?

How much do you think he's worth as a free agent?

He is a smart player who is very good at the little things...a team player. Can make the right pass, fight for rebounds, hit 3s, etc. I'd love to see him back. It seems like we are more attached to Teletovic, and him to us though , so I don't expect him back. But he did play as well as any PF that started for us this year, as did our team when he did.

Teletovic, though, is strictly a role player and Leuer is a much better all around player, and younger.

i like Leuer but you guys are underestimating Teletovic's effectiveness as a scorer this year IMO.

he started off slow but by the end of the year he had put together an impressive season:

Mirza had 23 more 3PMs than Kevin Love (#14 overall in the League)

Mirza finished among the league leaders in eFG% (#20)

I disagree. Leuer is just a role player whose only advantage over Mirza is rebounding, but overall Teletovic is a much better player, IMO. Tele makes a big difference on offense and can win you games by himself. Leuer is just a replacement level player.

He's a great scorer. I do particularly remember a game winner near the end of the season to drop us a spot in the lottery pecking order.

Mirza did shoot slightly better from 3 (39.3% compared to compared to Leuer's 38.2%), but Leuer better from 2 (51.1% as opposed to Telly's 47.6%).

I like them both for different reasons, but both have range...Telly a bit better from distance but Leuer better at almost everything else. Rebounding, blocks, steals, assists, etc.

http://bkref.com/tiny/v1FHE

[aIvin adams]

He's a great scorer. I do particularly remember a game winner near the end of the season to drop us a spot in the lottery pecking order.

Mirza did shoot slightly better from 3 (39.3% compared to compared to Leuer's 38.2%), but Leuer better from 2 (51.1% as opposed to Telly's 47.6%).

I like them both for different reasons, but both have range...Telly a bit better from distance but Leuer better at almost everything else. Rebounding, blocks, steals, assists, etc.

http://bkref.com/tiny/v1FHE

I wouuld agree that they are both competent NBA players who could come off the bench and play a role on very good teams.

but Telly isn't 'a bit better from distance.' He's on another level. If they are both open from three and if they both had all the time in the world to shoot, then they're comparable. but there's a reason why Mirza shoots threes at 3 times the rate Leuer does.

and then consider the fact that Leuer doesn't pull the defense anywhere close to how Mirza does. if Mirza sets a high screen, his man sticks to him like he's Steph Curry or Channing Frye. that isn't the case with Leuer. I don't know what stats somebody like Zach Lowe uses to show 'gravity,' but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Mirza has among the highest 'gravity scores' in the league whereas Leuer's is probably average to below average for a stretch big.

so they are both role players. but Mirza is a role player who is exceptional at a facet of the game that has premium value.

one of these two guys can significantly change the trajectory and outcome of a 7 game playoff series and the other cannot, IMO. that's a special kind of role player.

[Jsun947]

How is Leuer's ability to put the ball on the floor on a close out and make the right decision pass? Hows his BBIQ in general?

He seems like he would be a fantastic fit on Portland. We're a huge system team and can really use a 4 who can rebound better and spread the floor. We play Aminu and Harkless at the 4 a lot but they aren't big enough to body a lot of 4s on defense and get killed on the boards. Harkless isn't a good 3 point shooter. Aminu shoots the three ok at times but dribbles with his head down and is a turn over machine after the defender closes out. If he manages to stumble to the rim he throws up the most awkward and horrendous shots I've ever seen.

I can see them offering him a contract similar to what Olshey did with Davis and Aminu last year (Something in the 6-9 mil per year range for 4 years).

[bwgood77]

He's a great scorer. I do particularly remember a game winner near the end of the season to drop us a spot in the lottery pecking order.

Mirza did shoot slightly better from 3 (39.3% compared to compared to Leuer's 38.2%), but Leuer better from 2 (51.1% as opposed to Telly's 47.6%).

I like them both for different reasons, but both have range...Telly a bit better from distance but Leuer better at almost everything else. Rebounding, blocks, steals, assists, etc.

http://bkref.com/tiny/v1FHE

I wouuld agree that they are both competent NBA players who could come off the bench and play a role on very good teams.

but Telly isn't 'a bit better from distance.' He's on another level. If they are both open from three and if they both had all the time in the world to shoot, then they're comparable. but there's a reason why Mirza shoots threes at 3 times the rate Leuer does.

and then consider the fact that Leuer doesn't pull the defense anywhere close to how Mirza does. if Mirza sets a high screen, his man sticks to him like he's Steph Curry or Channing Frye. that isn't the case with Leuer. I don't know what stats somebody like Zach Lowe uses to show 'gravity,' but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Mirza has among the highest 'gravity scores' in the league whereas Leuer's is probably average to below average for a stretch big.

so they are both role players. but Mirza is a role player who is exceptional at a facet of the game that has premium value.

one of these two guys can significantly change the trajectory and outcome of a 7 game playoff series and the other cannot, IMO. that's a special kind of role player.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I also believe Mirza can be extremely streaky both ways. He can be red hot or ice cold. To start this season, he was pretty terrible. Much of his good play came late against terrible teams and in games where we would be down big and mount a come back against scrubs.

I am a strong believe in stretch 4s and their value, so ideally, to me, we'd keep both, at least until we KNOW we have a better option to start or a young draftee comes into his own.

If Mirza was out there as a FA, I doubt many would be wanting to sign him due to his age. However, another great thing about MIrza is that it seems that he likes being in Phoenix and WANTs to be in Phoenix, and that is pretty rare these days for free agents, so based on that alone, I'd outbid anyone for him.

[bwgood77]

How is Leuer's ability to put the ball on the floor on a close out and make the right decision pass? Hows his BBIQ in general?

He seems like he would be a fantastic fit on Portland. We're a huge system team and can really use a 4 who can rebound better and spread the floor. We play Aminu and Harkless at the 4 a lot but they aren't big enough to body a lot of 4s on defense and get killed on the boards. Harkless isn't a good 3 point shooter. Aminu shoots the three ok at times but dribbles with his head down and is a turn over machine after the defender closes out. If he manages to stumble to the rim he throws up the most awkward and horrendous shots I've ever seen.

I can see them offering him a contract similar to what Olshey did with Davis and Aminu last year (Something in the 6-9 mil per year range for 4 years).

IMO he is a very good passer. He is very good at the little things and seems like a high IQ player. I know you are not asking about Teletovic, but to add to what I've mentioned about the two, Teletovic seems to often times not make the smart play or just jacks up a shot that doesn't make sense (like if we are up by 4 with 25 seconds left and 20 on the shot clock or something he might brick a shot). In the aforementioned situation, Leuer would make the pass to make sure the clock continued to wind down.

[Gorilla Warfare]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_8GH8g39mw[/youtube]

Nothing more need be said. Only thing that would have been better is if he punched Cousins in the face really hard afterwards.

God I hate Cousins.

[LukasBMW]

Leuer has great fundamentals and at times played like Kevin Love light.

He'll never be a starter in this league but he'd be a solid backup at the 4.

I'd take him on my second unit anyday.

[GMATCallahan]

I disagree. Leuer is just a role player whose only advantage over Mirza is rebounding, but overall Teletovic is a much better player, IMO. Tele makes a big difference on offense and can win you games by himself Leuer is just a replacement level player.

... that is stretching it in my opinion. Teletovic can get hot and make a difference off the bench, but you never know when that will be. Even then, he will not consistently create his own offense and thus depends on teammates in order to see quality looks. Outside of shooting, he fails to offer much, he is a defensive liability, and his body could use some work.

Leuer is a better athlete and a more functional all-around player. For what it may be worth, according to the metric Real Plus-Minus, Leuer ranked as the NBA's thirty-eighth-best power forward this past season at -0.04 (net points per 100 possessions), meaning that he was about a neutral player.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6

Teletovic, meanwhile, ranked as the NBA's forty-ninth-best power forward this past season at -0.46, rendering him a clearly negative asset, albeit not a disaster.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/6

His offensive potency largely, but not totally, compensated for his disastrous defense, as he ranked as the game's second-worst defensive power forward at -2.50.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/6

(By the way, I had not looked up these numbers prior to writing my assessment. They do confirm my feelings, though.)

And Real Plus-Minus obviously is not the final word on everything; Channing Frye is not actually a better power forward than LaMarcus Aldridge. When there is a sort of contextual flatness, however, as would be the case with Leuer and Teletovic (both served as floor-stretching role players on the same team), the metric can certainly be telling.

And, yes, I would definitely deem Draymond Green the game's best total power forward.

[GMATCallahan]

I wouuld agree that they are both competent NBA players who could come off the bench and play a role on very good teams.

but Telly isn't 'a bit better from distance.' He's on another level. If they are both open from three and if they both had all the time in the world to shoot, then they're comparable. but there's a reason why Mirza shoots threes at 3 times the rate Leuer does.

and then consider the fact that Leuer doesn't pull the defense anywhere close to how Mirza does. if Mirza sets a high screen, his man sticks to him like he's Steph Curry or Channing Frye. that isn't the case with Leuer. I don't know what stats somebody like Zach Lowe uses to show 'gravity,' but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Mirza has among the highest 'gravity scores' in the league whereas Leuer's is probably average to below average for a stretch big.

so they are both role players. but Mirza is a role player who is exceptional at a facet of the game that has premium value.

one of these two guys can significantly change the trajectory and outcome of a 7 game playoff series and the other cannot, IMO. that's a special kind of role player.

... quite true in terms of offense, where Leuer offers a greater and more athletic all-around game yet Teletovic takes the cake because, as you write, he is "exceptional at a facet of the game that has premium value."

But then one needs to consider defense, where Teletovic totally falls apart, whereas Leuer holds his own.

See my previous post.

[GMATCallahan]

How is Leuer's ability to put the ball on the floor on a close out and make the right decision pass? Hows his BBIQ in general?

He seems like he would be a fantastic fit on Portland. We're a huge system team and can really use a 4 who can rebound better and spread the floor. We play Aminu and Harkless at the 4 a lot but they aren't big enough to body a lot of 4s on defense and get killed on the boards. Harkless isn't a good 3 point shooter. Aminu shoots the three ok at times but dribbles with his head down and is a turn over machine after the defender closes out. If he manages to stumble to the rim he throws up the most awkward and horrendous shots I've ever seen.

I can see them offering him a contract similar to what Olshey did with Davis and Aminu last year (Something in the 6-9 mil per year range for 4 years).

Leuer can put the ball on the floor and make a nice move to the hole in space as a sort of pseudo-slasher. He also cuts and moves pretty well without the ball (largely a lost art in today's NBA), he runs the floor hard, he is fundamentally sound, he takes nothing for granted (meaning that he has a nose for the ball, especially around the hoop), and he is a little more athletic than one might imagine (or that one may stereotype him as given that he is a a 6'9" or 6'10" white guy). His footwork is pretty good, too. He reminds me a little of Pete Chilcutt, who started for Houston during most of the Rockets' 1995 playoff run (which culminated in a championship), except that Leuer may be more athletic.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d70_VKPPGE[/youtube]

(Not a playoff game.)

Of course, Leuer is untested in terms of high-stress situations, but his fundamental soundness and willingness to play hard and run the floor hard at all times bode well for him. Like Chilcutt in Houston, Leuer would probably look even better with better players around him. Like Chilcutt, he may need to land in the right spot at the right time to make any kind of noticeable impact, but like Chilcutt, he could fill a nice niche.

[GMATCallahan]

I personally think it was silly not to play Leuer more. His only competition after we moved Kieff was Teletovic. Granted, Telly was the better 3PT shooter and better overall scorer (38% from the 3 on 1.6 attempts and 16ppg per36 for Leuer vs 39% from the 3 on 5.8 attempts and 21ppg per36 for Telly) and Telly is the more reliable scorer of the two.

I would've preferred to play Leuer more because of his rebounding, better defensive abilities and youth. He also managed to score at a respectable .48FG% clip.

I would love to see him return to the team. I think his age and abilities would be a good fit for this team going forward while not costing too much. I see him as a Nick Collison type player who will work and play hard, is a good team mate with no ego who knows his role and stick around on a very cap-friendly contract. No, he isn't the 20/10 guy we need but no team expects a 20/10 guy coming off the bench and every team needs a players who know their role and just play hard when called upon.

I think something around $20/3 would be fair considering his youth and the increasing salary cap.

I agree, especially in terms of Leuer not receiving more playing time in the season's second half.

I am not sure about giving him $20M for three years, but he offers greater upside than Teletovic.

[NavLDO]

I personally think it was silly not to play Leuer more. His only competition after we moved Kieff was Teletovic. Granted, Telly was the better 3PT shooter and better overall scorer (38% from the 3 on 1.6 attempts and 16ppg per36 for Leuer vs 39% from the 3 on 5.8 attempts and 21ppg per36 for Telly) and Telly is the more reliable scorer of the two.

I would've preferred to play Leuer more because of his rebounding, better defensive abilities and youth. He also managed to score at a respectable .48FG% clip.

I would love to see him return to the team. I think his age and abilities would be a good fit for this team going forward while not costing too much. I see him as a Nick Collison type player who will work and play hard, is a good team mate with no ego who knows his role and stick around on a very cap-friendly contract. No, he isn't the 20/10 guy we need but no team expects a 20/10 guy coming off the bench and every team needs a players who know their role and just play hard when called upon.

I think something around $20/3 would be fair considering his youth and the increasing salary cap.

I agree, especially in terms of Leuer not receiving more playing time in the season's second half.

I am not sure about giving him $20M for three years, but he offers greater upside than Teletovic.

With the increased Salary Cap, a 3/$20M would be a fair price; I'd say it would equate to about a 3/$15M last year.

I'm not sure why Leuer did not get more 'burn' throughout the season, especially when he started off hot, but there were likely some 'behind the scenes' reasons.

In situations like these, I like to imagine that our coaches/GM realized we caught 'lightning in a bottle', hence limited his playing time, knowing we wanted to 'tank', and by limiting his play time, it does 3 things--one, limits his exposure for other teams to see his play, thus two, makes them question what 'behind the scenes' things kept him from playing, thus lowering their overall interest in him, and three, limits his agents ability to push his price too high when we negotiate his new contract.

Remember, we only had him for a year, so the above would all be strategies to enhance our ability to sign Leuer long-term.

But yeah, I know, that's all 'fantasy-land' stuff, but it would be awesome if it were true!!

Conspiracy theorist here, for your viewing pleasure!! I'll be performing all week!!!

[aIvin adams]

mirza v. leuer shooting maps:






we all agree that they are not comparable on offense. and we all agree that Leuer is a better defender and rebounder.

i like Leuer and i'd like to resign him to a contract with numbers like the ones suggested in this thread. but i don't think he's an above average defender or an above average rebounder (mirza is turrible at both obv). so he's a 27 year old PF who is not a great shooter, not a good scorer, and not a good defender. he's OK.

here's a list of our rotation players in descending order by defensive FG% differential (ie, the difference between the FG% of a given offensive player from that area of the floor when defended by a particular suns player vs the average FG% of that player from that spot). by that metric from nba.com/stats, our worst defenders:

1) Archie Goodwin (5.3%)
2) Devin Booker (4.8%)
3) Mirza Teletovic (4.1%)
4) Jon Leuer (2.7%)


yup, Mirza sucks at defense. but Leuer isn't much better. i'm guessing most other defensive metrics show Leuer to be average on defense at best.