ImageImageImage

OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc

Moderators: bwgood77, Kerrsed, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

User avatar
grumpysaddle
RealGM
Posts: 16,624
And1: 10,085
Joined: Feb 22, 2009
Location: San Diego
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#581 » by grumpysaddle » Sat Oct 9, 2021 4:50 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I was arguing with an idiot on FB, and felt some of my responses are relevant here, numbers-wise, after looking into them and calculating and ****...

there have been 0 deaths with the mRNA vaccines and 3 total for J&J due to blood clots. That's 1 out of 132,572,685.

From an article on J&J vaccine: "As of July 8, only 38 of the 12.5 million people who received the J&J vaccine reported having these complications, and most of them recovered."

There is a 0.0003% chance and that's just for getting blood clots, where almost everyone that has gotten them has recovered.


Also, personally became eligible for the booster shot (Pfizer), so I got it after the Suns/Lakers game a couple days ago. Actually got side-effects, but they were only last night, felt fine when i woke up today. Small price to pay for keeping my community safer (and myself). Still going to wear a mask indoors with strangers, like I have since the beginning. All the small things people complain about because it's a slight inconvenience has really worn on my mental health the past year and a half. Just do the right thing, everyone.


The "do your own research" people are the ones that still get me the most. When vaccines became openly available to the public, I read a couple of articles from medical journals regarding the differences between how the vaccines worked and how effective they were. Given that I'm a pretty healthy person and didn't have any potential complicating factors, I decided that I didn't really need to be picky regarding which vaccine I got, because they all would boost my immune response and cut my risk of a getting a severe case of Covid-19. I ended up getting the J&J because that was what was being administered at the first available appointment I found. I felt under the weather for a day. That beats the week+ of feeling like crap from mild cases, for all those who like to claim Covid isn't even that bad...

I literally have never seen a legit intelligent person say "educate yourself". It is always the idiots that barely graduated middle school.
Image
User avatar
TASTIC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 18,261
And1: 2,289
Joined: May 17, 2004
Location: New Zealand
   

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#582 » by TASTIC » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:18 am

grumpysaddle wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:I was arguing with an idiot on FB, and felt some of my responses are relevant here, numbers-wise, after looking into them and calculating and ****...

there have been 0 deaths with the mRNA vaccines and 3 total for J&J due to blood clots. That's 1 out of 132,572,685.

From an article on J&J vaccine: "As of July 8, only 38 of the 12.5 million people who received the J&J vaccine reported having these complications, and most of them recovered."

There is a 0.0003% chance and that's just for getting blood clots, where almost everyone that has gotten them has recovered.


Also, personally became eligible for the booster shot (Pfizer), so I got it after the Suns/Lakers game a couple days ago. Actually got side-effects, but they were only last night, felt fine when i woke up today. Small price to pay for keeping my community safer (and myself). Still going to wear a mask indoors with strangers, like I have since the beginning. All the small things people complain about because it's a slight inconvenience has really worn on my mental health the past year and a half. Just do the right thing, everyone.


There is a big thread on the GB about COVID and the vaccine. I haven't read much of it, but see some reports coming out of it. I was skimming it and sometimes I still am amazed when I run into all these conspiracy nuts about inflating COVID #s when we know there were likely tons of cases not counted, and the bigger nuts about vaccine conspiracies....I don't even know what all of them are.

Seriously what would be the purpose. Do people seriously believe in this 5G chip thing? If so, do they have a cell phone or do they stick to burners they discard regularly?

What possibly reason would there be for the medical clinics to give away free vaccines to control a pandemic? You know, outside of saving lives?

First people seemingly wanted to argue COVID #s being inflated because of Trump being in office...didn't want to make him look bad...now those same people do it with Biden there even though (I don't think they want to argue on his behalf).

PLUS, Trump was pro vaccine and demanded we get it before everyone else.

Funny thing is, if Trump would have come out at the very beginning and said "We need to tackle this thing and get it behind us. Buckle down for a couple months, avoid people, wear a mask and lets get this country back on track. We need to come together" he'd certainly be president right now. But of course for whatever reason he wanted to deny it which prolonged the whole thing.

While I am certainly not a Biden fan, I am torn on Prump's response because it has definitely extended the awfulness of the pandemic, however, if he had been reelected, things would have definitely been worse overall. The end of US democracy, most likely, with all the new info (that we all knew as it happened) regarding the attempted coup. It was extremely crappy timing in American history to have Prump as the president at that exact moment that Covid made its way stateside. I'm still looking for a New Zealander wife, if anyone can hook that up! I want out of this place.

Got my 2nd vacc today, done.

As a husband to a New Zealand wife, I'm not sure you want one haha. Nah jokes. The ladies here are very down to earth for the most part which is great.
Image
User avatar
grumpysaddle
RealGM
Posts: 16,624
And1: 10,085
Joined: Feb 22, 2009
Location: San Diego
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#583 » by grumpysaddle » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:40 am

TASTIC wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
There is a big thread on the GB about COVID and the vaccine. I haven't read much of it, but see some reports coming out of it. I was skimming it and sometimes I still am amazed when I run into all these conspiracy nuts about inflating COVID #s when we know there were likely tons of cases not counted, and the bigger nuts about vaccine conspiracies....I don't even know what all of them are.

Seriously what would be the purpose. Do people seriously believe in this 5G chip thing? If so, do they have a cell phone or do they stick to burners they discard regularly?

What possibly reason would there be for the medical clinics to give away free vaccines to control a pandemic? You know, outside of saving lives?

First people seemingly wanted to argue COVID #s being inflated because of Trump being in office...didn't want to make him look bad...now those same people do it with Biden there even though (I don't think they want to argue on his behalf).

PLUS, Trump was pro vaccine and demanded we get it before everyone else.

Funny thing is, if Trump would have come out at the very beginning and said "We need to tackle this thing and get it behind us. Buckle down for a couple months, avoid people, wear a mask and lets get this country back on track. We need to come together" he'd certainly be president right now. But of course for whatever reason he wanted to deny it which prolonged the whole thing.

While I am certainly not a Biden fan, I am torn on Prump's response because it has definitely extended the awfulness of the pandemic, however, if he had been reelected, things would have definitely been worse overall. The end of US democracy, most likely, with all the new info (that we all knew as it happened) regarding the attempted coup. It was extremely crappy timing in American history to have Prump as the president at that exact moment that Covid made its way stateside. I'm still looking for a New Zealander wife, if anyone can hook that up! I want out of this place.

Got my 2nd vacc today, done.

As a husband to a New Zealand wife, I'm not sure you want one haha. Nah jokes. The ladies here are very down to earth for the most part which is great.

You can divorce her and marry me. *flashes lashes* I just want that sweet sweet NZ citizenship. It sucks here.
Image
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#584 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:19 am

What city are you in Grumpy?
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 79,013
And1: 46,888
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#585 » by bwgood77 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:42 am

lilfishi22 wrote:What city are you in Grumpy?


Pretty sure he's in San Diego. Not exactly the worst place to live in the States.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#586 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:25 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:What city are you in Grumpy?


Pretty sure he's in San Diego. Not exactly the worst place to live in the States.

That's why I asked. There's a lot worse, a lot less progressive places in America
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
grumpysaddle
RealGM
Posts: 16,624
And1: 10,085
Joined: Feb 22, 2009
Location: San Diego
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#587 » by grumpysaddle » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:50 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:What city are you in Grumpy?


Pretty sure he's in San Diego. Not exactly the worst place to live in the States.

That's why I asked. There's a lot worse, a lot less progressive places in America

Yeah, San Diego is okay. Just super expensive and there's a big military population, so it's not AS progressive as I wish, but it still votes the lesser of two evils every election. I think I'm just tired of American culture at this point though.
Image
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#588 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:00 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Pretty sure he's in San Diego. Not exactly the worst place to live in the States.

That's why I asked. There's a lot worse, a lot less progressive places in America

Yeah, San Diego is okay. Just super expensive and there's a big military population, so it's not AS progressive as I wish, but it still votes the lesser of two evils every election. I think I'm just tired of American culture at this point though.

I do empathise. It could just be the media (Aus and American) perpetuating the extreme division we're seeing but is that division really as public and invasive in real life? Everyone has their own experiences but I have to say, in Australia that division is more prevalent on social media than ever before but if I wasn't so tuned into it, I'm not sure I would've felt a significant change in my everyday life.

I've watched a ton of videos on social media about karen outbursts, racial abuse and anti-vaxxers creating a scene but I can't say I've witnessed anything. And I'm not just talking about since the pandemic, like over the past few years, outside of the media/social media, I really can't say there's significant change. On the rare occasion, I've seen a poster or a letter from crazy anti-vaxxers in my mailbox about how it's all about a vitamin deficiency but aside from that...nothing really. Maybe I've just been lucky.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 79,013
And1: 46,888
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#589 » by bwgood77 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:06 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:That's why I asked. There's a lot worse, a lot less progressive places in America

Yeah, San Diego is okay. Just super expensive and there's a big military population, so it's not AS progressive as I wish, but it still votes the lesser of two evils every election. I think I'm just tired of American culture at this point though.

I do empathise. It could just be the media (Aus and American) perpetuating the extreme division we're seeing but is that division really as public and invasive in real life? Everyone has their own experiences but I have to say, in Australia that division is more prevalent on social media than ever before but if I wasn't so tuned into it, I'm not sure I would've felt a significant change in my everyday life.

I've watched a ton of videos on social media about karen outbursts, racial abuse and anti-vaxxers creating a scene but I can't say I've witnessed anything. And I'm not just talking about since the pandemic, like over the past few years, outside of the media/social media, I really can't say there's significant change. On the rare occasion, I've seen a poster or a letter from crazy anti-vaxxers in my mailbox about how it's all about a vitamin deficiency but aside from that...nothing really. Maybe I've just been lucky.


Why is Australia like this? Are they just following the American's lead? Are their Trump fans there?
User avatar
TASTIC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 18,261
And1: 2,289
Joined: May 17, 2004
Location: New Zealand
   

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#590 » by TASTIC » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:48 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
TASTIC wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:While I am certainly not a Biden fan, I am torn on Prump's response because it has definitely extended the awfulness of the pandemic, however, if he had been reelected, things would have definitely been worse overall. The end of US democracy, most likely, with all the new info (that we all knew as it happened) regarding the attempted coup. It was extremely crappy timing in American history to have Prump as the president at that exact moment that Covid made its way stateside. I'm still looking for a New Zealander wife, if anyone can hook that up! I want out of this place.

Got my 2nd vacc today, done.

As a husband to a New Zealand wife, I'm not sure you want one haha. Nah jokes. The ladies here are very down to earth for the most part which is great.

You can divorce her and marry me. *flashes lashes* I just want that sweet sweet NZ citizenship. It sucks here.

:lol:
I don't think it's that hard to get here, work and eventually live here. I sit next to a born and bred Nebraska lady who travelled here 18 years ago and never left haha
https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/choose-new-zealand/compare-new-zealand/usa

I live here. Great spot. About 5min drive to the ocean and an hour to snowy mountains :D
Image
Image
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#591 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:57 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:Yeah, San Diego is okay. Just super expensive and there's a big military population, so it's not AS progressive as I wish, but it still votes the lesser of two evils every election. I think I'm just tired of American culture at this point though.

I do empathise. It could just be the media (Aus and American) perpetuating the extreme division we're seeing but is that division really as public and invasive in real life? Everyone has their own experiences but I have to say, in Australia that division is more prevalent on social media than ever before but if I wasn't so tuned into it, I'm not sure I would've felt a significant change in my everyday life.

I've watched a ton of videos on social media about karen outbursts, racial abuse and anti-vaxxers creating a scene but I can't say I've witnessed anything. And I'm not just talking about since the pandemic, like over the past few years, outside of the media/social media, I really can't say there's significant change. On the rare occasion, I've seen a poster or a letter from crazy anti-vaxxers in my mailbox about how it's all about a vitamin deficiency but aside from that...nothing really. Maybe I've just been lucky.


Why is Australia like this? Are they just following the American's lead? Are their Trump fans there?

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

It's hard to ignore American politics and it's harder when your economic and political ties to America are so strong. But in terms of the division, I think there's a significant influence from the American psyche although a lot could also be organic. However given so much of the anti-vax, conservatism and freedumb narrative/policy/material is from America, people of those leanings naturally look to America where I think there is more division than ever before. So when Aussies see that and there's already natural political division, it just goes to create even more division. As for the Trump question, there's no doubt that his ideas, the anti-intellectualism push and populism has crept into our political field.

One of the politicians is a billionaire named Clive Palmer who is really trying to become the Trump of Australia. It hasn't quite gotten the traction that Trump did and it's still a fringe party but it's definitely grown from sort of a joke to actually adding a member parliament to our lower house.

The Uniting Australia Party (UAP) policies are, as at 11 October 2021:
Lockdowns. It is against lockdowns and for the re-opening of borders, stating that the country's Constitution provides for the "absolutely free" movement of people within Australia.
Domestic vaccine passports. The UAP is against vaccine passports.
The doctor-patient relationship. The UAP "believes in the sanctity of the doctor-patient relationship" and medical privacy. It says that alternative treatments which have shown success overseas "must be included in the treatment options and available for all Australians."
National Cabinet. The UAP states that this has no legal basis and should be abolished quickly.
Energy. The UAP supports the use of and further research into the generation of electricity through the use of nuclear power plants.
Defence. It is in favour of matching of other regional countries' nuclear fleet with Australia's own. It stresses the use of the defence budget for defence purposes only.
Free speech and "foreign tech giants". The UAP says that companies such as Facebook and Twitter "should not be able to censor Australian political debate" and seeks to legislate to prevent this.
"Australian values". The party stresses that "the most basic freedoms of parliamentary democracy - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from fear, and freedom of association" must be protected.
Zonal taxation. It advocates a "20% tax concession incentive" in rural areas to stimulate economic growth there and reduce the impact of congestion and overcrowding in cities.
Resource industry. The UAP says that there should be more onshore minerals processing, that more stages of the mining process should happen in Australia.


I mean.....talk about following America's lead

Image
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
grumpysaddle
RealGM
Posts: 16,624
And1: 10,085
Joined: Feb 22, 2009
Location: San Diego
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#592 » by grumpysaddle » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:17 am

TASTIC wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Got my 2nd vacc today, done.

As a husband to a New Zealand wife, I'm not sure you want one haha. Nah jokes. The ladies here are very down to earth for the most part which is great.

You can divorce her and marry me. *flashes lashes* I just want that sweet sweet NZ citizenship. It sucks here.

:lol:
I don't think it's that hard to get here, work and eventually live here. I sit next to a born and bred Nebraska lady who travelled here 18 years ago and never left haha
https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/choose-new-zealand/compare-new-zealand/usa

I live here. Great spot. About 5min drive to the ocean and an hour to snowy mountains :D
Image

That's absolutely beautiful. I'm not quite at the point of abandoning it all here yet, friends and family and all that, but whenever my parents pass away, I will probably think hard on it for sure.
Image
suns12345
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,998
And1: 1,317
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#593 » by suns12345 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:52 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:I do empathise. It could just be the media (Aus and American) perpetuating the extreme division we're seeing but is that division really as public and invasive in real life? Everyone has their own experiences but I have to say, in Australia that division is more prevalent on social media than ever before but if I wasn't so tuned into it, I'm not sure I would've felt a significant change in my everyday life.

I've watched a ton of videos on social media about karen outbursts, racial abuse and anti-vaxxers creating a scene but I can't say I've witnessed anything. And I'm not just talking about since the pandemic, like over the past few years, outside of the media/social media, I really can't say there's significant change. On the rare occasion, I've seen a poster or a letter from crazy anti-vaxxers in my mailbox about how it's all about a vitamin deficiency but aside from that...nothing really. Maybe I've just been lucky.


Why is Australia like this? Are they just following the American's lead? Are their Trump fans there?

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

It's hard to ignore American politics and it's harder when your economic and political ties to America are so strong. But in terms of the division, I think there's a significant influence from the American psyche although a lot could also be organic. However given so much of the anti-vax, conservatism and freedumb narrative/policy/material is from America, people of those leanings naturally look to America where I think there is more division than ever before. So when Aussies see that and there's already natural political division, it just goes to create even more division. As for the Trump question, there's no doubt that his ideas, the anti-intellectualism push and populism has crept into our political field.

One of the politicians is a billionaire named Clive Palmer who is really trying to become the Trump of Australia. It hasn't quite gotten the traction that Trump did and it's still a fringe party but it's definitely grown from sort of a joke to actually adding a member parliament to our lower house.

The Uniting Australia Party (UAP) policies are, as at 11 October 2021:
Lockdowns. It is against lockdowns and for the re-opening of borders, stating that the country's Constitution provides for the "absolutely free" movement of people within Australia.
Domestic vaccine passports. The UAP is against vaccine passports.
The doctor-patient relationship. The UAP "believes in the sanctity of the doctor-patient relationship" and medical privacy. It says that alternative treatments which have shown success overseas "must be included in the treatment options and available for all Australians."
National Cabinet. The UAP states that this has no legal basis and should be abolished quickly.
Energy. The UAP supports the use of and further research into the generation of electricity through the use of nuclear power plants.
Defence. It is in favour of matching of other regional countries' nuclear fleet with Australia's own. It stresses the use of the defence budget for defence purposes only.
Free speech and "foreign tech giants". The UAP says that companies such as Facebook and Twitter "should not be able to censor Australian political debate" and seeks to legislate to prevent this.
"Australian values". The party stresses that "the most basic freedoms of parliamentary democracy - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from fear, and freedom of association" must be protected.
Zonal taxation. It advocates a "20% tax concession incentive" in rural areas to stimulate economic growth there and reduce the impact of congestion and overcrowding in cities.
Resource industry. The UAP says that there should be more onshore minerals processing, that more stages of the mining process should happen in Australia.


I mean.....talk about following America's lead

Image


Bloody clive haha.

I think thats a good summary fish. Certainly some parts of society here have looked to america and tried to bring that to life here.

Fortunately not that many people buy into the trump level rhetoric, but you can sense the divide getting wider and wider.

I still believe (in america too) that the perceived divide is really just a few people at either end of the spectrum and the majority sit silently in the middle - I hope so anyway.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#594 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:04 am

suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Why is Australia like this? Are they just following the American's lead? Are their Trump fans there?

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

It's hard to ignore American politics and it's harder when your economic and political ties to America are so strong. But in terms of the division, I think there's a significant influence from the American psyche although a lot could also be organic. However given so much of the anti-vax, conservatism and freedumb narrative/policy/material is from America, people of those leanings naturally look to America where I think there is more division than ever before. So when Aussies see that and there's already natural political division, it just goes to create even more division. As for the Trump question, there's no doubt that his ideas, the anti-intellectualism push and populism has crept into our political field.

One of the politicians is a billionaire named Clive Palmer who is really trying to become the Trump of Australia. It hasn't quite gotten the traction that Trump did and it's still a fringe party but it's definitely grown from sort of a joke to actually adding a member parliament to our lower house.

The Uniting Australia Party (UAP) policies are, as at 11 October 2021:
Lockdowns. It is against lockdowns and for the re-opening of borders, stating that the country's Constitution provides for the "absolutely free" movement of people within Australia.
Domestic vaccine passports. The UAP is against vaccine passports.
The doctor-patient relationship. The UAP "believes in the sanctity of the doctor-patient relationship" and medical privacy. It says that alternative treatments which have shown success overseas "must be included in the treatment options and available for all Australians."
National Cabinet. The UAP states that this has no legal basis and should be abolished quickly.
Energy. The UAP supports the use of and further research into the generation of electricity through the use of nuclear power plants.
Defence. It is in favour of matching of other regional countries' nuclear fleet with Australia's own. It stresses the use of the defence budget for defence purposes only.
Free speech and "foreign tech giants". The UAP says that companies such as Facebook and Twitter "should not be able to censor Australian political debate" and seeks to legislate to prevent this.
"Australian values". The party stresses that "the most basic freedoms of parliamentary democracy - freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from fear, and freedom of association" must be protected.
Zonal taxation. It advocates a "20% tax concession incentive" in rural areas to stimulate economic growth there and reduce the impact of congestion and overcrowding in cities.
Resource industry. The UAP says that there should be more onshore minerals processing, that more stages of the mining process should happen in Australia.


I mean.....talk about following America's lead

Image


Bloody clive haha.

I think thats a good summary fish. Certainly some parts of society here have looked to america and tried to bring that to life here.

Fortunately not that many people buy into the trump level rhetoric, but you can sense the divide getting wider and wider.

I still believe (in america too) that the perceived divide is really just a few people at either end of the spectrum and the majority sit silently in the middle - I hope so anyway.

Yeah it's thankfully still on the fringes and hasn't gotten to the point where they have become the leader of this country. But I do think it's growing. The recent lockdowns and vaccination mandates seem to have pushed their narrative forward and America is just a deep well of misinformation to reach into for these people.

That being said, I do agree that it's still at the ends of the spectrum and the silent majority are still largely reasonable, rational and understanding, as evidenced by the very high vaccination rates. In the Hills District where my parents live in NSW, that is the heartland of Hillsong and the Bible belt and given the evangelicals in America have been quite vaccine hesitant to anti-vax, it's been refreshing to see the Hills District some some of the highest double vaccination rates in Australia (~92%).
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#595 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:27 am

TASTIC wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Got my 2nd vacc today, done.

As a husband to a New Zealand wife, I'm not sure you want one haha. Nah jokes. The ladies here are very down to earth for the most part which is great.

You can divorce her and marry me. *flashes lashes* I just want that sweet sweet NZ citizenship. It sucks here.

:lol:
I don't think it's that hard to get here, work and eventually live here. I sit next to a born and bred Nebraska lady who travelled here 18 years ago and never left haha
https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/choose-new-zealand/compare-new-zealand/usa

I live here. Great spot. About 5min drive to the ocean and an hour to snowy mountains :D
Image
Did a family trip to NZ a few years ago and I'm super keen to go back with my missus. SUch an incredibly beautiful place, super diverse nature and great people. Like I've mentioned in a post earlier, I see Kiwi's the same as I see Canadians; like Aussies/Americans but so much nicer and down to Earth. If I could live anywhere else on Earth, it would be NZ.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
suns12345
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,998
And1: 1,317
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#596 » by suns12345 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:31 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

It's hard to ignore American politics and it's harder when your economic and political ties to America are so strong. But in terms of the division, I think there's a significant influence from the American psyche although a lot could also be organic. However given so much of the anti-vax, conservatism and freedumb narrative/policy/material is from America, people of those leanings naturally look to America where I think there is more division than ever before. So when Aussies see that and there's already natural political division, it just goes to create even more division. As for the Trump question, there's no doubt that his ideas, the anti-intellectualism push and populism has crept into our political field.

One of the politicians is a billionaire named Clive Palmer who is really trying to become the Trump of Australia. It hasn't quite gotten the traction that Trump did and it's still a fringe party but it's definitely grown from sort of a joke to actually adding a member parliament to our lower house.

The Uniting Australia Party (UAP) policies are, as at 11 October 2021:


I mean.....talk about following America's lead

Image


Bloody clive haha.

I think thats a good summary fish. Certainly some parts of society here have looked to america and tried to bring that to life here.

Fortunately not that many people buy into the trump level rhetoric, but you can sense the divide getting wider and wider.

I still believe (in america too) that the perceived divide is really just a few people at either end of the spectrum and the majority sit silently in the middle - I hope so anyway.

Yeah it's thankfully still on the fringes and hasn't gotten to the point where they have become the leader of this country. But I do think it's growing. The recent lockdowns and vaccination mandates seem to have pushed their narrative forward and America is just a deep well of misinformation to reach into for these people.

That being said, I do agree that it's still at the ends of the spectrum and the silent majority are still largely reasonable, rational and understanding, as evidenced by the very high vaccination rates. In the Hills District where my parents live in NSW, that is the heartland of Hillsong and the Bible belt and given the evangelicals in America have been quite vaccine hesitant to anti-vax, it's been refreshing to see the Hills District some some of the highest double vaccination rates in Australia (~92%).


Yeh the vax numbers are good. Vaccination is quite a funny social issue (in NSW/Aus at least) in that it seems so controversial but there arent many hotly contested social issues where its at least >80% in favor of one side (going off the number of people vaccinated). Even something like gay marriage in Australia seemed clear cut the way it was discussed, and no voters were ridiculed, however that vote was still only about 60:40 yes:no.

Of course, vaccines shouldn't even be a social issue, it is a medical issue, and the medical advice is very clear.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#597 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:10 am

suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
Bloody clive haha.

I think thats a good summary fish. Certainly some parts of society here have looked to america and tried to bring that to life here.

Fortunately not that many people buy into the trump level rhetoric, but you can sense the divide getting wider and wider.

I still believe (in america too) that the perceived divide is really just a few people at either end of the spectrum and the majority sit silently in the middle - I hope so anyway.

Yeah it's thankfully still on the fringes and hasn't gotten to the point where they have become the leader of this country. But I do think it's growing. The recent lockdowns and vaccination mandates seem to have pushed their narrative forward and America is just a deep well of misinformation to reach into for these people.

That being said, I do agree that it's still at the ends of the spectrum and the silent majority are still largely reasonable, rational and understanding, as evidenced by the very high vaccination rates. In the Hills District where my parents live in NSW, that is the heartland of Hillsong and the Bible belt and given the evangelicals in America have been quite vaccine hesitant to anti-vax, it's been refreshing to see the Hills District some some of the highest double vaccination rates in Australia (~92%).


Yeh the vax numbers are good. Vaccination is quite a funny social issue (in NSW/Aus at least) in that it seems so controversial but there arent many hotly contested social issues where its at least >80% in favor of one side (going off the number of people vaccinated). Even something like gay marriage in Australia seemed clear cut the way it was discussed, and no voters were ridiculed, however that vote was still only about 60:40 yes:no.

Of course, vaccines shouldn't even be a social issue, it is a medical issue, and the medical advice is very clear.

Yeah 100%. The anti-vaxxers are still just a small but very loud minority. You said it perfectly, vaccinations rates a very high and that goes to show how small of a minority the anti-vax movement is. NSW is on track to hit 95% single dose early Nov and 90% double dose some time in mid-Nov which is a massive achievement. But yeah, the vaccination really isn't a social or political issue but rather a health issue and we are incredibly lucky that we don't have to pay for the jabs unlike some other countries. The result of the marriage equality plebiscite was surprising, I definitely thought it would be closer to an 80:20 issue than a close 60:40 one. I think my parents are pretty tolerant but I think if given the choice, they'd probably rather not change the definition of marriage. Not necessarily because they are against same sex couples per se or religious at all but rather they just prefer the definition of marriage not to change because they just don't like change. I'm guessing that's why the results of the national survey was closer to 60:40.

Whereabouts in straya do you live?
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
suns12345
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,998
And1: 1,317
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#598 » by suns12345 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:08 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Yeah it's thankfully still on the fringes and hasn't gotten to the point where they have become the leader of this country. But I do think it's growing. The recent lockdowns and vaccination mandates seem to have pushed their narrative forward and America is just a deep well of misinformation to reach into for these people.

That being said, I do agree that it's still at the ends of the spectrum and the silent majority are still largely reasonable, rational and understanding, as evidenced by the very high vaccination rates. In the Hills District where my parents live in NSW, that is the heartland of Hillsong and the Bible belt and given the evangelicals in America have been quite vaccine hesitant to anti-vax, it's been refreshing to see the Hills District some some of the highest double vaccination rates in Australia (~92%).


Yeh the vax numbers are good. Vaccination is quite a funny social issue (in NSW/Aus at least) in that it seems so controversial but there arent many hotly contested social issues where its at least >80% in favor of one side (going off the number of people vaccinated). Even something like gay marriage in Australia seemed clear cut the way it was discussed, and no voters were ridiculed, however that vote was still only about 60:40 yes:no.

Of course, vaccines shouldn't even be a social issue, it is a medical issue, and the medical advice is very clear.

Yeah 100%. The anti-vaxxers are still just a small but very loud minority. You said it perfectly, vaccinations rates a very high and that goes to show how small of a minority the anti-vax movement is. NSW is on track to hit 95% single dose early Nov and 90% double dose some time in mid-Nov which is a massive achievement. But yeah, the vaccination really isn't a social or political issue but rather a health issue and we are incredibly lucky that we don't have to pay for the jabs unlike some other countries. The result of the marriage equality plebiscite was surprising, I definitely thought it would be closer to an 80:20 issue than a close 60:40 one. I think my parents are pretty tolerant but I think if given the choice, they'd probably rather not change the definition of marriage. Not necessarily because they are against same sex couples per se or religious at all but rather they just prefer the definition of marriage not to change because they just don't like change. I'm guessing that's why the results of the national survey was closer to 60:40.

Whereabouts in straya do you live?


I was surprised by the 60:40 too, but I think you nailed the reasoning - people don't like change plus a bit of general intolerance mixed in there too.

In Sydney, so just out of lockdown yesterday - feels a bit weird haha

you?
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 26,556
And1: 14,879
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#599 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:50 pm

suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
Yeh the vax numbers are good. Vaccination is quite a funny social issue (in NSW/Aus at least) in that it seems so controversial but there arent many hotly contested social issues where its at least >80% in favor of one side (going off the number of people vaccinated). Even something like gay marriage in Australia seemed clear cut the way it was discussed, and no voters were ridiculed, however that vote was still only about 60:40 yes:no.

Of course, vaccines shouldn't even be a social issue, it is a medical issue, and the medical advice is very clear.

Yeah 100%. The anti-vaxxers are still just a small but very loud minority. You said it perfectly, vaccinations rates a very high and that goes to show how small of a minority the anti-vax movement is. NSW is on track to hit 95% single dose early Nov and 90% double dose some time in mid-Nov which is a massive achievement. But yeah, the vaccination really isn't a social or political issue but rather a health issue and we are incredibly lucky that we don't have to pay for the jabs unlike some other countries. The result of the marriage equality plebiscite was surprising, I definitely thought it would be closer to an 80:20 issue than a close 60:40 one. I think my parents are pretty tolerant but I think if given the choice, they'd probably rather not change the definition of marriage. Not necessarily because they are against same sex couples per se or religious at all but rather they just prefer the definition of marriage not to change because they just don't like change. I'm guessing that's why the results of the national survey was closer to 60:40.

Whereabouts in straya do you live?


I was surprised by the 60:40 too, but I think you nailed the reasoning - people don't like change plus a bit of general intolerance mixed in there too.

In Sydney, so just out of lockdown yesterday - feels a bit weird haha

you?

Yeah same! Weekend is going to be nuts. Good weather and finally out of lockdown. I'm going to keep it relatively quiet, see family etc
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
suns12345
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,998
And1: 1,317
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
 

Re: OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc 

Post#600 » by suns12345 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:44 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
suns12345 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:Yeah 100%. The anti-vaxxers are still just a small but very loud minority. You said it perfectly, vaccinations rates a very high and that goes to show how small of a minority the anti-vax movement is. NSW is on track to hit 95% single dose early Nov and 90% double dose some time in mid-Nov which is a massive achievement. But yeah, the vaccination really isn't a social or political issue but rather a health issue and we are incredibly lucky that we don't have to pay for the jabs unlike some other countries. The result of the marriage equality plebiscite was surprising, I definitely thought it would be closer to an 80:20 issue than a close 60:40 one. I think my parents are pretty tolerant but I think if given the choice, they'd probably rather not change the definition of marriage. Not necessarily because they are against same sex couples per se or religious at all but rather they just prefer the definition of marriage not to change because they just don't like change. I'm guessing that's why the results of the national survey was closer to 60:40.

Whereabouts in straya do you live?


I was surprised by the 60:40 too, but I think you nailed the reasoning - people don't like change plus a bit of general intolerance mixed in there too.

In Sydney, so just out of lockdown yesterday - feels a bit weird haha

you?

Yeah same! Weekend is going to be nuts. Good weather and finally out of lockdown. I'm going to keep it relatively quiet, see family etc


Me too, I'm actually just most keen to get out of town, so hopefully we hit 80% before this monday and I can escape down the coast for a bit.

Nice to have at least one other suns fan in town :D

Return to Phoenix Suns