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For all the Boogie talk.
I secretly love Knight

accepting the fact that 50% of this posting base has evacuated to higher ground, many of you guys have a very myopic look when it comes to this team. Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

Moving Warren (or) and a few picks for the most dominant big in the game is not something you'd be interested ? Haha...Fine.... stay in your bubble....but be ready for it to pop. McD has finally positioned himself for a blockbuster deal. To get his disgruntled superstar, and one is becoming available. There is no star he can get in free agency, sure we have a couple of up and comers, but they aren't even scratching the surface of being a top tiered player.

You do remember McDs blueprint....his game plan to make PHNX a contender right? Gather assets/picks, draft wisely, make a few trades, then BAM get a superstar using the chips he's accumulated. He sold Sarver on that plan to get hired. And you really believe they have abandoned it because of a few off years and miscalculations? Oh, I know, it's the full on Philadelphia Plan we have adopted, or is it the Minnesota Make-Over Method... or the failed OKC Presti experiment? I see it now.... ''Hey Mr Sarver, I made a few mistakes, so now, the next two to three years we're going to load up on Kids and I promise in 4 yrs we'll be back in the playoffs'

What in McDs past makes you believe his youther spin? Christ, he learned his double speak from blab-master Babby. This guy is spoon feeding you shade wearing baby kissers into believing we will just lie in the gutter of the league and draft our way back up. Because rookies are so dependable......in 3-4 years we'll be back in it? And Sarver is along for that ride? No playoffs for how many yrs in a row?..

The team has been such a mess over the past three that I really don't care what they do.... but I can stand back and unemotionally say if Cousins is available McD will and should drop his drawers to get him. It would be an instant kickstart to ticket sales and a fast track to contenderville. Look at the stands for Christ sakes.... it a morgue in there. The once 'buzz of the valley' suns are a laugher now... and only a few junkied up fans like at this forum give a bleep. The common fan doesn't get excited watching Bender or Chriss or Warren for that matter have a few good games, especially when the Ls are piling up once again. Your cry for 'patience' is costing Sarver millions and squarely positions us on the treadmill of mediocrity, just in a different gym.... you know, the one that says 'kids room'.

BTW... I haven't heard many negative player comments about Boogie. This ' attitude' excuse from some of you is way over blown. You think this franchise has been dysfunctional, take a look at Sac town. A perpetual coaching and front office circus. DMC has been stuck in bBall hell. Who wouldn't be frustrated? Especially with his talent. They have failed exceptionally to build around him.

This team (phx) is built for him. Good outside shooters, mature locker room presence, some good young players, a boat load of wildcats, a pschye job coach, and a buddy to boot. Plus, he can come down here and play PF as much as he wants.

You are crazy or in cradle rocking denial if you think McD and Sarver will will pass on this opportunity.

Yours truly,
FL



Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Frank Lee wrote:accepting the fact that 50% of this posting base has evacuated to higher ground, many of you guys have a very myopic look when it comes to this team. Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

Moving Warren (or) and a few picks for the most dominant big in the game is not something you'd be interested ? Haha...Fine.... stay in your bubble....but be ready for it to pop. McD has finally positioned himself for a blockbuster deal. To get his disgruntled superstar, and one is becoming available. There is no star he can get in free agency, sure we have a couple of up and comers, but they aren't even scratching the surface of being a top tiered player.

You do remember McDs blueprint....his game plan to make PHNX a contender right? Gather assets/picks, draft wisely, make a few trades, then BAM get a superstar using the chips he's accumulated. He sold Sarver on that plan to get hired. And you really believe they have abandoned it because of a few off years and miscalculations? Oh, I know, it's the full on Philadelphia Plan we have adopted, or is it the Minnesota Make-Over Method... or the failed OKC Presti experiment? I see it now.... ''Hey Mr Sarver, I made a few mistakes, so now, the next two to three years we're going to load up on Kids and I promise in 4 yrs we'll be back in the playoffs'

What in McDs past makes you believe his youther spin? Christ, he learned his double speak from blab-master Babby. This guy is spoon feeding you shade wearing baby kissers into believing we will just lie in the gutter of the league and draft our way back up. Because rookies are so dependable......in 3-4 years we'll be back in it? And Sarver is along for that ride? No playoffs for how many yrs in a row?..

The team has been such a mess over the past three that I really don't care what they do.... but I can stand back and unemotionally say if Cousins is available McD will and should drop his drawers to get him. It would be an instant kickstart to ticket sales and a fast track to contenderville. Look at the stands for Christ sakes.... it a morgue in there. The once 'buzz of the valley' suns are a laugher now... and only a few junkied up fans like at this forum give a bleep. The common fan doesn't get excited watching Bender or Chriss or Warren for that matter have a few good games, especially when the Ls are piling up once again. Your cry for 'patience' is costing Sarver millions and squarely positions us on the treadmill of mediocrity, just in a different gym.... you know, the one that says 'kids room'.

BTW... I haven't heard many negative player comments about Boogie. This ' attitude' excuse from some of you is way over blown. You think this franchise has been dysfunctional, take a look at Sac town. A perpetual coaching and front office circus. DMC has been stuck in bBall hell. Who wouldn't be frustrated? Especially with his talent. They have failed exceptionally to build around him.

This team (phx) is built for him. Good outside shooters, mature locker room presence, some good young players, a boat load of wildcats, a pschye job coach, and a buddy to boot. Plus, he can come down here and play PF as much as he wants.

You are crazy or in cradle rocking denial if you think McD and Sarver will will pass on this opportunity.

Yours truly,
FL



Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Nice Post!

I personally wouldn't compromise the core of Bender, Booker, Chriss and Warren in order to get Cousins. Cousins has been a loser for his whole carrer and continously proved he couldn't lead a team to playoffs. To be frank I'm not so sure if he could even take these Suns to playoffs. His stat padding on a bad team reminds me a lot of Kevin Love situation in Minnesota, expect Kevin posted better advanced stats and actually got close to making the playoffs in 13/14. There are also his temper issues to consider and the fact that he oftenly focuses only on the offensive side of the game and easily gets frustrated when the game isn't going for him. He's still obviously a great player but I don't think he'd actually turn things around like some are hoping for. Basically I'm not touching the young core without any kind of assurance of re-signing.

I'm not in favor of trading for Cousins, but if you do, if you do give up assets for him I would suggest a followup move of Kenny Faried trade with Denver if possible. Faried played great next to Boogie in the Olympics, their games really complimented each other and they really seemed to get along great on the bench. Don't know how it could be done but starting Bled/ Book/ ? No clue who is traded/ Faried/ Cuz .... is that playoffs?

Fo-Real wrote:I'm not in favor of trading for Cousins, but if you do, if you do give up assets for him I would suggest a followup move of Kenny Faried trade with Denver if possible. Faried played great next to Boogie in the Olympics, their games really complimented each other and they really seemed to get along great on the bench. Don't know how it could be done but starting Bled/ Book/ ? No clue who is traded/ Faried/ Cuz .... is that playoffs?

I would like these trades if bender and ulis were not involved. Really faried and cousins together would be something very interesting. Some sf with good 3-point shooting and good marking of preference. I think the dudley at this point would do the paper well.

Frank Lee wrote:McD has positioned himself/us for a Cousins deal. All we have to do is move 7-8 million in contracts and can absorb Boogies 17 mil. Knight does not have to be involved. Warren and/or Chriss with a couple picks would do it, along with Tucker. Sactown then waives Tuck (and of course, San Ant picks him up)

There are many options, and I'd count on us being in the mix.

It's an easy one to figure. we'd still be a young team too, and you don't really think Sarver would pass on getting back into the playoffs do you? And there is no reason to think DMC would walk. (Of course we'd draft another KY player ...and hmmmm may be make a play for their coach?)

This would be the best team he's ever been on and IMO, and a load to deal with. Contender? It will be a close as we come in the next 5 yrs.

2 Things -- I'd want a SIGNED extension upon completion of the deal. That would be allowed, wouldn't it?

And 2nd, for me, no way on Warren. Why not on Knight?? As was mentioned somewhere on these forums, Vlade's not a big analytics guy...he'd appreciate Knight's ability to drop 25 per night (on 25 shots, of course), but as a true Shooting Guard to Collison, he could thrive in that offense, and with Gay, the two of them would account for 50% of Sacs offense.

But if he doesn't want Knight, then I'd rather do a Chriss, Bledsoe, and a couple of picks for again, a SIGNED extension Cousins, or whatever would have to happen to guarantee he can't walk away in a year and a half without losing a ton of money. If no guarantee, no picks, just straight Bledsoe/Chriss for Cousins. No way do I give up more than that for a year-and-a-half rental that does nothing more than get us to MAYBE a late seed.

LacosteM wrote:I personally wouldn't compromise the core of Bender, Booker, Chriss and Warren in order to get Cousins. Cousins has been a loser for his whole carrer and continously proved he couldn't lead a team to playoffs. To be frank I'm not so sure if he could even take these Suns to playoffs. His stat padding on a bad team reminds me a lot of Kevin Love situation in Minnesota, expect Kevin posted better advanced stats and actually got close to making the playoffs in 13/14. There are also his temper issues to consider and the fact that he oftenly focuses only on the offensive side of the game and easily gets frustrated when the game isn't going for him. He's still obviously a great player but I don't think he'd actually turn things around like some are hoping for. Basically I'm not touching the young core without any kind of assurance of re-signing.

I strongly disagree with saying Cousins is a loser and ignoring that a heck of a lot of stars were losers too. Heck Anthony Davis is a loser currently.
Chris Paul is a huge under achiever since he hasnt led his team to a finals series.

Saying Cousins is a loser is ignoring the fact that the Suns are losers too especially since Cousins has entered the league. Suns and Kings have both been jokes for over 5 years.


So dont use that excuse.



Cousins by eye test alone shows he is amazing. A guy that big who can dribble and bang bodies on his way to the rim and still score. Then his ability to nail a mid range or a 3pter are bonuses.

You put defenders and a strong system around him and you will get wins.

Frank Lee wrote:accepting the fact that 50% of this posting base has evacuated to higher ground, many of you guys have a very myopic look when it comes to this team. Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

Moving Warren (or) and a few picks for the most dominant big in the game is not something you'd be interested ? Haha...Fine.... stay in your bubble....but be ready for it to pop. McD has finally positioned himself for a blockbuster deal. To get his disgruntled superstar, and one is becoming available. There is no star he can get in free agency, sure we have a couple of up and comers, but they aren't even scratching the surface of being a top tiered player.

You do remember McDs blueprint....his game plan to make PHNX a contender right? Gather assets/picks, draft wisely, make a few trades, then BAM get a superstar using the chips he's accumulated. He sold Sarver on that plan to get hired. And you really believe they have abandoned it because of a few off years and miscalculations? Oh, I know, it's the full on Philadelphia Plan we have adopted, or is it the Minnesota Make-Over Method... or the failed OKC Presti experiment? I see it now.... ''Hey Mr Sarver, I made a few mistakes, so now, the next two to three years we're going to load up on Kids and I promise in 4 yrs we'll be back in the playoffs'

What in McDs past makes you believe his youther spin? Christ, he learned his double speak from blab-master Babby. This guy is spoon feeding you shade wearing baby kissers into believing we will just lie in the gutter of the league and draft our way back up. Because rookies are so dependable......in 3-4 years we'll be back in it? And Sarver is along for that ride? No playoffs for how many yrs in a row?..

The team has been such a mess over the past three that I really don't care what they do.... but I can stand back and unemotionally say if Cousins is available McD will and should drop his drawers to get him. It would be an instant kickstart to ticket sales and a fast track to contenderville. Look at the stands for Christ sakes.... it a morgue in there. The once 'buzz of the valley' suns are a laugher now... and only a few junkied up fans like at this forum give a bleep. The common fan doesn't get excited watching Bender or Chriss or Warren for that matter have a few good games, especially when the Ls are piling up once again. Your cry for 'patience' is costing Sarver millions and squarely positions us on the treadmill of mediocrity, just in a different gym.... you know, the one that says 'kids room'.

BTW... I haven't heard many negative player comments about Boogie. This ' attitude' excuse from some of you is way over blown. You think this franchise has been dysfunctional, take a look at Sac town. A perpetual coaching and front office circus. DMC has been stuck in bBall hell. Who wouldn't be frustrated? Especially with his talent. They have failed exceptionally to build around him.

This team (phx) is built for him. Good outside shooters, mature locker room presence, some good young players, a boat load of wildcats, a pschye job coach, and a buddy to boot. Plus, he can come down here and play PF as much as he wants.

You are crazy or in cradle rocking denial if you think McD and Sarver will will pass on this opportunity.

Yours truly,
FL



Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Oh, stop, Frank. Can't handle a little 'Devil's Advocacy'???

I actually just +1'd you, so quit thinking you know everything I'm thinking or how my mind works, because you don't. I agree with a large portion of what you wrote, but that doesn't still answer the two BIG questions. Does he sign at the end of next season, and why hasn't he even come close to getting SacTown to PlayoffVille??? Rudy Gay is no slouch of a player, and they have some fine young talent on board...so I ask...

...what makes you think our young talent is better than Sac's young talent?

...why do you think he'll be more successful here than he's been in Sacramento?

...and if we fail to make the playoff's, why should he sign here for another 5 years if he envisions Phoenix is just another Sacramento?

...and if he's such a great talent, why hasn't he drawn other FAs to Sacramento to make them better?

I just think these are fair questions to ask, but I also disagree a bit with what our offer should be. I think Bledsoe does nothing for him, and he'd be better off with a PG who will include him more in the offense. And I would offer Chriss before any other youngster, and have Boogie play more PF to Len's Center, Warren as our SF, Booker can run our offense at SG in the short term, or allow Ulis to run it as PG with Booker still, as the SG.

This way, if he bails in a year and a half, we still have Bender as our PF, and we haven't lost much, as Bledsoe hasn't really taken us anywhere, either.

So that's all I'm saying. Don't deplete our youth by giving up Bender, Warren, and 2 High picks for a potential 1.5 year rental. That is my ONLY concern with your enthusiasm with this plan--depleting our team to where we are left with, yep, you guessed it, now a 28 YO Bledsoe, a 26 YO Knight, Booker, and nothing else left in the coffers...

So c'mon man, give me a chance before you just completely shut me down...

At this point, why not if Cousins is available? I'd hope that we can at least keep him paired with Warren and Booker though. Hate to give up on the young guns but I also hate losing every game for the foreseeable future.

Knight, Len, Chriss, Miami pick for Cousins.

Knight, Len, Warren, Chriss for Cousins

Bledsoe, Len, Chriss, Miami pick for Cousins, Casspi

Knight, Chriss, Len, 17 1st, Miami Pick for Cousins

Frank Lee wrote:acc Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

It's not like Cousins is the next Shaq either. Cousins is someone's "treasure"? The man who carried the Kings to 33 wins that one year? The guy who can't play with IT and Gay and Casspi don't want to play with? And he either wants coaches gone or they want him gone?

Cousins is more like the Kings headache. No thanks.

Frank Lee wrote:Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Did you really believe there was any chance in this having any effect?


That all being said, I won't be surprised if McD, master of crap trade deadline moves, does trade for Cousins and it ends up setting us back another five years. He's proven he's good in the draft, and not so good at trading, and is good up getting guys here that at some point later become headaches. So yeah, there might be a good chance it happens, and then you will have more reasons to call him McMully.

Frank,

Sometimes superstars can be picked up for spare parts or mediocre players with potential. Especially if that Superstar has some question marks like Cousins.

We got Barkley for Jeff Hornacek (Brandon Knight), Tim Perry (Chriss), and Andrew Lang (Alex Len).

So maybe Knight, Len, and our unprotected pick this year works.

If not for Boogie, there will be other players on the market AND for some strange reason...some fans of other teams actually value Knight. LOL.

You know who might make the most sense in being a trade partner for Cousins? Denver.

They have two good Cs so could throw in Nurkic (or Jokic possibly), and then they have tons of young wings.

They could throw in either Murray or Mudiay (if they think Murray can play point) or Harris and/or Barton. Or just two of those guys. Then they obviously want to trade Faried. They have all of their own picks and a Memphis first rounder.

If the Kings wanted a vet they could throw in Wilson Chandler or possibly Gallo.

They have all sorts of pieces and so many good wings that they could easily lose two good ones and still have one good one left. Same with their centers and PFs.

I mean Harris/Faried/Nurkic/Denver first/Memphis first and then possibly even another wing would seem to be a pretty damn good offer that would allow Sacramento to probably be pretty good right away with a couple of picks as opposed to getting super raw guys from us or pretty crappy players from us.

Dudes, I'm just tealeafing the obvious. I have no predictions on who and what teams would be involved. But McD has cap space, expendable picks, and some youngsters to dangle.

Just as an example.... Tucker alone for Cousins is a green light on the machine. Of course I would imagine Vlade would want one of our youngsters, so McDealio has many options.

bwgood77 wrote:

Frank Lee wrote:acc Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

It's not like Cousins is the next Shaq either. Cousins is someone's "treasure"? The man who carried the Kings to 33 wins that one year? The guy who can't play with IT and Gay and Casspi don't want to play with? And he either wants coaches gone or they want him gone?

Cousins is more like the Kings headache. No thanks.

Frank Lee wrote:Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Did you really believe there was any chance in this having any effect?


That all being said, I won't be surprised if McD, master of crap trade deadline moves, does trade for Cousins and it ends up setting us back another five years. He's proven he's good in the draft, and not so good at trading, and is good up getting guys here that at some point later become headaches. So yeah, there might be a good chance it happens, and then you will have more reasons to call him McMully.

-Dragic for one barely proteccted, and one completely unprotected, 1st Rd picks AND not paying him $17M per year

-Kieff for a 1st Rd pick

Nothing wrong with those two, so it's not as if EVERY trade deadline move is a "crap trade", so not sure why you would say that?

NavLDO wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

Frank Lee wrote:acc Y'all pretty much loathe Brandon Knight, but feel that it's OK to trade him and Len for Cousins.... Len, who can also walk next yr, and BK.... as if that would really work. Let's get rid of our trash and take some ones treasure. Yes, we have some young talent, but it's not like Tony Buckets is the next Bernard King, Booker is Ray Allen, Bender is AK, and Chriss Stat......
take them ( ) off please

It's not like Cousins is the next Shaq either. Cousins is someone's "treasure"? The man who carried the Kings to 33 wins that one year? The guy who can't play with IT and Gay and Casspi don't want to play with? And he either wants coaches gone or they want him gone?

Cousins is more like the Kings headache. No thanks.

Frank Lee wrote:Ps.... don't even bother to respond NavLo.... we know we're you stand plus no one needs another novel to read just read it and weep

Did you really believe there was any chance in this having any effect?


That all being said, I won't be surprised if McD, master of crap trade deadline moves, does trade for Cousins and it ends up setting us back another five years. He's proven he's good in the draft, and not so good at trading, and is good up getting guys here that at some point later become headaches. So yeah, there might be a good chance it happens, and then you will have more reasons to call him McMully.

-Dragic for one barely proteccted, and one completely unprotected, 1st Rd picks AND not paying him $17M per year

-Kieff for a 1st Rd pick

Nothing wrong with those two, so it's not as if EVERY trade deadline move is a "crap trade", so not sure why you would say that?

I thought of those two when posting and thought I revised to say "crap deadline trades for players".

BUT, the only reason those trades were made in the first place was because he made moves prior to that to disgruntle those players and ask to be traded or say they don't trust the FO. Creating those situations in the first place are not good.

Plus the situations and/or the subsequent trades because of those necessary moves ruined two seasons. The first being the bad situation with guards not being happy for half the year, and then after dealing Dragic, and IT for a late pick, then we trade the Lakers pick for Knight, and give him a $70 million contract. Then the Morris situation hanging over our head for most of the season was the primary reason last season blew.

I want him to stay as GM, but he's made plenty of huge mistakes whether it be boneheaded moves or communication and establishing some sort of trust with players.

bwgood77 wrote:

NavLDO wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
It's not like Cousins is the next Shaq either. Cousins is someone's "treasure"? The man who carried the Kings to 33 wins that one year? The guy who can't play with IT and Gay and Casspi don't want to play with? And he either wants coaches gone or they want him gone?

Cousins is more like the Kings headache. No thanks.



Did you really believe there was any chance in this having any effect?


That all being said, I won't be surprised if McD, master of crap trade deadline moves, does trade for Cousins and it ends up setting us back another five years. He's proven he's good in the draft, and not so good at trading, and is good up getting guys here that at some point later become headaches. So yeah, there might be a good chance it happens, and then you will have more reasons to call him McMully.

-Dragic for one barely proteccted, and one completely unprotected, 1st Rd picks AND not paying him $17M per year

-Kieff for a 1st Rd pick

Nothing wrong with those two, so it's not as if EVERY trade deadline move is a "crap trade", so not sure why you would say that?

I thought of those two when posting and thought I revised to say "crap deadline trades for players".

BUT, the only reason those trades were made in the first place was because he made moves prior to that to disgruntle those players and ask to be traded or say they don't trust the FO. Creating those situations in the first place are not good.

Plus the situations and/or the subsequent trades because of those necessary moves ruined two seasons. The first being the bad situation with guards not being happy for half the year, and then after dealing Dragic, and IT for a late pick, then we trade the Lakers pick for Knight, and give him a $70 million contract. Then the Morris situation hanging over our head for most of the season was the primary reason last season blew.

I want him to stay as GM, but he's made plenty of huge mistakes whether it be boneheaded moves or communication and establishing some sort of trust with players.

That's a matter of opinion, and from previous posts, you already know what side of the coin I am on that argument, and it's not the said you or Frank, or a good number of others are. I'm sure I'm wrong, but IMO, they made their own decisions on how to feel about the situations, and as we see now, Dragic's been given the 'Brass ring' he wanted, that he complained about wanting while he was here, and we see that that, wasn't the problem. He blamed his play on everyone else but his own abilities.

So, that's my opinion, and doesn't make me right, but that's how I see it--not totally black and white, of course, McD, of course, sheds some blame, but as you know, I get tired of hearing that it was ALL his fault, and while it was a situation HE created, he didn't choose to act like a petulant child a week before the trade deadline, crying about how he was so mistreated, when if he was given what he wanted, we likely wouldn't have benefited any better than we did.

Bottom line is what I've been trying to argue several months back was that there was more than one party holding the blame; it wasn't a black and white situation: McD did--the Black, and Dragic and the Suns suffered--the White...there was blame to be had on BOTH parties, and McD did the best with what he was left with in the end.

NavLDO wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

NavLDO wrote:
-Dragic for one barely proteccted, and one completely unprotected, 1st Rd picks AND not paying him $17M per year

-Kieff for a 1st Rd pick

Nothing wrong with those two, so it's not as if EVERY trade deadline move is a "crap trade", so not sure why you would say that?

I thought of those two when posting and thought I revised to say "crap deadline trades for players".

BUT, the only reason those trades were made in the first place was because he made moves prior to that to disgruntle those players and ask to be traded or say they don't trust the FO. Creating those situations in the first place are not good.

Plus the situations and/or the subsequent trades because of those necessary moves ruined two seasons. The first being the bad situation with guards not being happy for half the year, and then after dealing Dragic, and IT for a late pick, then we trade the Lakers pick for Knight, and give him a $70 million contract. Then the Morris situation hanging over our head for most of the season was the primary reason last season blew.

I want him to stay as GM, but he's made plenty of huge mistakes whether it be boneheaded moves or communication and establishing some sort of trust with players.

That's a matter of opinion, and from previous posts, you already know what side of the coin I am on that argument, and it's not the said you or Frank, or a good number of others are. I'm sure I'm wrong, but IMO, they made their own decisions on how to feel about the situations, and as we see now, Dragic's been given the 'Brass ring' he wanted, that he complained about wanting while he was here, and we see that that, wasn't the problem. He blamed his play on everyone else but his own abilities.

So, that's my opinion, and doesn't make me right, but that's how I see it--not totally black and white, of course, McD, of course, sheds some blame, but s you know, I get tired of hearing that it was ALL his fault, and while it was a situation HE created, he didn't choose to act like a petulant child a week before the trade deadline, crying about how he was so mistreated, when if he was given what he wanted, we likely wouldn't have benefited any better than we did.

Bottom line is what I've been trying to argue several months back was that there was more than one party holding the blame; it wasn't a black and white situation: McD did--the Black, and Dragic and the Suns suffered--the White...there was blame to be had on BOTH parties, and McD did the best with what he was left with in the end.

McD did a good job of getting value for those disgruntled guys. Would have they been disgruntled had there not been some other moves by McD or perhaps promises that McD made? Who knows? But I do think Dragic is a pretty stand up guy and you may disagree. He probably wasn't the best guy to have long term anyway, so I'm fine with that. Markieff either. But the knee jerk trade after the Dragic trade was ill advised as well. Obviously you think highly of McD and I think/hope he made some mistakes as a rookie GM and has learned from those. He obviously seems like a good prospect evaluator and is good at getting value when he needs to trade players.

There are positives and negatives. My primary point in that post which I guess you missed, is that Frank is advocating trading all our youth for Cousins, and there is a damn good chance if that happens, it will subsequently turn into a bad move, giving him more ammunition for the McMully trade. You must have missed the gist of my post.

I'm all about building a team from the ground up and not making trades that sacrifice the future to get a low playoff seed and acquire a guy who very well could be unhappy that Booker might be more of the face of the franchise than him, or finds a better offer later, or doesn't like the coach, or doesn't get along with teammates who don't like playing with him. Something I don't want to go for the 8th seed.

bwgood77 wrote:

NavLDO wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
I thought of those two when posting and thought I revised to say "crap deadline trades for players".

BUT, the only reason those trades were made in the first place was because he made moves prior to that to disgruntle those players and ask to be traded or say they don't trust the FO. Creating those situations in the first place are not good.

Plus the situations and/or the subsequent trades because of those necessary moves ruined two seasons. The first being the bad situation with guards not being happy for half the year, and then after dealing Dragic, and IT for a late pick, then we trade the Lakers pick for Knight, and give him a $70 million contract. Then the Morris situation hanging over our head for most of the season was the primary reason last season blew.

I want him to stay as GM, but he's made plenty of huge mistakes whether it be boneheaded moves or communication and establishing some sort of trust with players.

That's a matter of opinion, and from previous posts, you already know what side of the coin I am on that argument, and it's not the said you or Frank, or a good number of others are. I'm sure I'm wrong, but IMO, they made their own decisions on how to feel about the situations, and as we see now, Dragic's been given the 'Brass ring' he wanted, that he complained about wanting while he was here, and we see that that, wasn't the problem. He blamed his play on everyone else but his own abilities.

So, that's my opinion, and doesn't make me right, but that's how I see it--not totally black and white, of course, McD, of course, sheds some blame, but s you know, I get tired of hearing that it was ALL his fault, and while it was a situation HE created, he didn't choose to act like a petulant child a week before the trade deadline, crying about how he was so mistreated, when if he was given what he wanted, we likely wouldn't have benefited any better than we did.

Bottom line is what I've been trying to argue several months back was that there was more than one party holding the blame; it wasn't a black and white situation: McD did--the Black, and Dragic and the Suns suffered--the White...there was blame to be had on BOTH parties, and McD did the best with what he was left with in the end.

McD did a good job of getting value for those disgruntled guys. Would have they been disgruntled had there not been some other moves by McD or perhaps promises that McD made? Who knows? But I do think Dragic is a pretty stand up guy and you may disagree. He probably wasn't the best guy to have long term anyway, so I'm fine with that. Markieff either. But the knee jerk trade after the Dragic trade was ill advised as well. Obviously you think highly of McD and I think/hope he made some mistakes as a rookie GM and has learned from those. He obviously seems like a good prospect evaluator and is good at getting value when he needs to trade players.

There are positives and negatives. My primary point in that post which I guess you missed, is that Frank is advocating trading all our youth for Cousins, and there is a damn good chance if that happens, it will subsequently turn into a bad move, giving him more ammunition for the McMully trade. You must have missed the gist of my post.

I'm all about building a team from the ground up and not making trades that sacrifice the future to get a low playoff seed and acquire a guy who very well could be unhappy that Booker might be more of the face of the franchise than him, or finds a better offer later, or doesn't like the coach, or doesn't get along with teammates who don't like playing with him. Something I don't want to go for the 8th seed.

Yes, I did, and for that, I apologize, and actually agree with you. I don't know if you read what I wrote about the situation, but what I basically proposed was Bledsoe/Chriss/Pick for Cousins...but only if we get a contract extension as he signs with us. Then I'm ok with moving Chriss and a pick, with Cousins as our PF, Len as C, Warren at SF, Bender at wherever he fits best.

But yes, I agree with what you re saying. I'm ok with going out and getting Cousins, but not at the expense of every young player we have, so good call on that.