2017 Draft Discussion Part 4: 3 Day Countdown!

[Kerrsed]

Continued from: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=56358719#p56358719

[Sonne]

Trade with sactown incoming

[SlovenianDragon]

I feel salty being the last post in a closed thread so I will repeat myself here!

(In terms of Tatum)

"I agree his footwork and feel for the game is amazing.

I don't get the whole thing where people are like yeah Tatum looks good and is NBA ready but player x has so much potential.

Man Tatum has potential too. He can also improve from where hes at.

Give me NBA ready with potential over player x who has potential he just needs to work on this and that.

Ya know?"

[Zelaznyrules]

I feel salty being the last post in a closed thread so I will repeat myself here!

(In terms of Tatum)

"I agree his footwork and feel for the game is amazing.

I don't get the whole thing where people are like yeah Tatum looks good and is NBA ready but player x has so much potential.

Man Tatum has potential too. He can also improve from where hes at.

Give me NBA ready with potential over player x who has potential he just needs to work on this and that.

Ya know?"

Yeah he does but the overriding concern about Tatum offensively has little to do with potential and more to do with foot speed. Will he be able to get those same shots against NBA level players or will he more like Marcus Morris? I don't know the answer but I understand the concern.

[SlovenianDragon]

So we all watch the strength videos and highlight videos... So nearing draft day I want to post the weakness videos that almost get no views. They are interesting to watch and incase you haven't watched them yet I will post them here. Just something to reflect on as we get closer to draft day.

The three players I believe would be on the draft board for the Suns at #4:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[SlovenianDragon]

I feel salty being the last post in a closed thread so I will repeat myself here!

(In terms of Tatum)

"I agree his footwork and feel for the game is amazing.

I don't get the whole thing where people are like yeah Tatum looks good and is NBA ready but player x has so much potential.

Man Tatum has potential too. He can also improve from where hes at.

Give me NBA ready with potential over player x who has potential he just needs to work on this and that.

Ya know?"

Yeah he does but the overriding concern about Tatum offensively has little to do with potential and more to do with foot speed. Will he be able to get those same shots against NBA level players or will he more like Marcus Morris? I don't know the answer but I understand the concern.

The truth is we don't know what any of these guys are going to do in the NBA. We just pretend to know....

[SlovenianDragon]

well I quoted myself by mistake....move along.

[Zelaznyrules]

I feel salty being the last post in a closed thread so I will repeat myself here!

(In terms of Tatum)

"I agree his footwork and feel for the game is amazing.

I don't get the whole thing where people are like yeah Tatum looks good and is NBA ready but player x has so much potential.

Man Tatum has potential too. He can also improve from where hes at.

Give me NBA ready with potential over player x who has potential he just needs to work on this and that.

Ya know?"

Yeah he does but the overriding concern about Tatum offensively has little to do with potential and more to do with foot speed. Will he be able to get those same shots against NBA level players or will he more like Marcus Morris? I don't know the answer but I understand the concern.

The truth is we don't know what any of these guys are going to do in the NBA. We just pretend to know....

Sure, judging how they have played is tough enough, predicting how they'll play when everything in their world changes makes it more like guesswork than science some times. But keep in mind, I'm not coming down on either side of the Tatum question, I don't know enough about him to even "pretend to know" what he'll become.

[Blonde]

This draft is so deep. There are a bunch of great players who will be available at 32 for us. I was hoping for a Len replacement with that pick but it seems like most of the centers have moved up to the first round projections. I feel confident there will be an all star in the 2nd round of this draft. It could be more important than our #4 pick.

[sunwillrise0304]

This draft is so deep. There are a bunch of great players who will be available at 32 for us. I was hoping for a Len replacement with that pick but it seems like most of the centers have moved up to the first round projections. I feel confident there will be an all star in the 2nd round of this draft. It could be more important than our #4 pick.

i am not as confident as you.
but i do think there will be good talents available in the late 20s.
Given our workouts this year is quite few and narrow, I hope MCD trade 32 up a bit to secure what he wants.(maybe give out next year raptors 2RD picks or even our 2018 2ND round pick)

[nymets1]

I been hearing on my board that the Suns are taking Isaac at 4. Could the Suns really take Isaac?

[nevetsov]

Couple of thoughts:

1) facilitating a PG to CLE trade.

Makes sense for us to try and keep him out of the west and off the Lakers for a multitude of reasons, but not if its going to cost us. PG must be on a $25m+/per contract, what I'm thinking is that IND won't want to take on $25m of crappy CLE filler, so perhaps we are willing to take that $25m-Ish from CLE and in exchange send out a smaller deal with more years (Knight at $13m)? We are much better positioned to wear a year or two of dead weight than to have to carry $10+ mill deals long term.

Edit: PG on an expiring deal +PO, just under $20m.
Cleveland could take him in exchange for Frye and Shumperts expiring ($18m combined of expiring).
Indy wouldn't dump PG for that, but we would take it to dump Knight ($13m x3 years) and perhaps Indy would find more value in Knight, being a smaller per season deal and one that could be revived with opportunity in the east given GHill may bolt as well.

2) JJ promise.

I think McD and Ainge talk quite frequently, and given the movement at the top of the draft thus far I think we're working together to come out on top together. I mentioned in the last thread that Ainge will probably attempt to deal #3 for Butler, but if that deal can't be done, his plan B should be to flip it to Sac for #5 (Isaac) and #10 (Collins).

We may have been assured that whoever we want (Tatum?) would be available based on Boston being stuck at #3. Now, in order to force Sac into that plan B trade, what if we have put it out there as a rumor (via Gambo, our mouthpiece) that we (by process of elimination) have given a promise to Jackson who Sac has worked out, in order to try and force them into the BOS trade? We would be assured of our guy, Ainge gets his trade.

Even if not the case, we could gauge Sacs interest in Jackson by seeing if they contact BOS to leapfrog us. This at least provides us free intel on Sacs intentions. /conspiracytheories

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I been hearing on my board that the Suns are taking Isaac at 4. Could the Suns really take Isaac?

Givony said that he blew us away in his workout with us. He hasn't worked out for anyone since and has said he won't work out for anyone not in the top 4. Historically, we have brought the players we are truly considering into town and taken them out to dinner, getting to know them as people. We have brought in exactly two players twice - Isaac and Tatum. An astute observer on this board pointed out that we did not bring in any of the point guards slated to go in the lottery. Everything indicates that we are between Isaac and Tatum unless someone falls out of the top 3. Word escaped last year that we liked Chriss a lot after his workout here, and word was right. Word this year is Isaac. So... yeah. The safest bet is to mock Isaac at 4.

[nevetsov]

I been hearing on my board that the Suns are taking Isaac at 4. Could the Suns really take Isaac?

Lots of talk on here, board is split on Isaac, Tatum and Jackson.

Logically though, Isaac makes the least sense, given we have 2 PF prospects in Bender and Chriss, who both look very promising. Better off with a wing given Warren is due for a payday next season and he may not be max money material.

[Waylay13]

I been hearing on my board that the Suns are taking Isaac at 4. Could the Suns really take Isaac?

Givony said that he blew us away in his workout with us. He hasn't worked out for anyone since and has said he won't work out for anyone not in the top 4. Historically, we have brought the players we are truly considering into town and taken them out to dinner, getting to know them as people. We have brought in exactly two players twice - Isaac and Tatum. An astute observer on this board pointed out that we did not bring in any of the point guards slated to go in the lottery. Everything indicates that we are between Isaac and Tatum unless someone falls out of the top 3. Word escaped last year that we liked Chriss a lot after his workout here, and word was right. Word this year is Isaac. So... yeah. The safest bet is to mock Isaac at 4.

But since this is draft time it is very likely that this is a part of a misinformation campaign. Isn't interesting that most raw of the players we had in, we have played him up but the player that everyone has said is the perfect fit for us we have said almost nothing about....

Also there is word out that many agents are advising their player not to work out for the Kings and we know that he did work out for the Magic. So if you have a promise at 6 for the magic and you dont want to work for Kings it make it clear that you would only work out for a top 4 team and we know that he has worked out for both the Celtics and the 76ers.

[Frank Lee]

Isaac is the tape measure hero that is in every draft. His 'potential' teeter totter is more weighted on what he may become, rather than what he is.

Of the top 6 or 7 guys, doesn't he grade out as highest risk?

I have to go bird in the hand with this pick as we can't afford to draft another Len-type project that runs out their rookie deal and remains a question mark.

Fox or Monk for me. Markanen or Collins if we go big. I think we can address the wing slot with 32 as one of those scrabbley names will be available... Iwundu, Ojeleye, Anunoby... and frankly, those guys fit this squad much better than Isaac.

Not sold on Tatum, though he looks like a very safe pick, and dont think Jackson will be there BTW.

PS.... all things equal, intensity remains a very important characteristic.... Jackson and Fox are fierce competitors, Monk is an iceman assassin... and Collins has a Lambeerish chip. Lolly-poppers like Isaac and Ball need not apply.

[GetYourPHX]

Isaac is the tape measure hero that is in every draft. His 'potential' teeter totter is more weighted on what he may become, rather than what he is.

Of the top 6 or 7 guys, doesn't he grade out as highest risk?

I have to go bird in the hand with this pick as we can't afford to draft another Len-type project that runs out their rookie deal and remains a question mark.

Fox or Monk for me. Markanen or Collins if we go big. I think we can address the wing slot with 32 as one of those scrabbley names will be available... Iwundu, Ojeleye, Anunoby... and frankly, those guys fit this squad much better than Isaac.

Not sold on Tatum, though he looks like a very safe pick, and dont think Jackson will be there BTW.

PS.... all things equal, intensity remains a very important characteristic.... Jackson and Fox are fierce competitors, Monk is an iceman assassin... and Collins has a Lambeerish chip. Lolly-poppers like Isaac and Ball need not apply.

You've successfully epitomized what the anti-Issac crowd doesn't get. There are two skills that historically translate well from college to the pros - defensive impact and rebounding. Issac is the best prospect in the generally mocked top 10 at those two, historically transferable skills.

Players don't inherently have a lot of bust potential just because they have a high ceiling. That's not how this process works. Issac is already an elite defender and rebounder, so his floor is pretty high as well.

The "floater" criticism, the "lack of a killer mentality" vein of thought,. the bust potential... all of that is just noise. You guys are buying a narrative instead of looking at statistics. No one in the accepted top 10, outside of Markelle Fultz, had the impact that Issac did when they were on the floor.

[bwgood77]

I had asked the question on the Kings board who they would rather have between Jackson and Fox (poll is evenly split) and here was a funny answer...

There's an unwritten rule about Kansas draft picks here in town though.

I assume bad, like we feel about the Morris twins in Phx?

Morris twins >> TRob/Ben Mac

Although I think if Ben finds the right team he'll be a good NBA scorer.

Ouch, Thomas Robinson and Ben McLemore in the top 5.

[gaspar]

Bleh, Isaac would be such an uninspiring pick. Long limbs but no skills and no competitive fire. Bender 2.0. At least our goofy Croatian showed some potential as a ballhandler and passer.

[Frank Lee]

Isaac is the tape measure hero that is in every draft. His 'potential' teeter totter is more weighted on what he may become, rather than what he is.

Of the top 6 or 7 guys, doesn't he grade out as highest risk?

I have to go bird in the hand with this pick as we can't afford to draft another Len-type project that runs out their rookie deal and remains a question mark.

Fox or Monk for me. Markanen or Collins if we go big. I think we can address the wing slot with 32 as one of those scrabbley names will be available... Iwundu, Ojeleye, Anunoby... and frankly, those guys fit this squad much better than Isaac.

Not sold on Tatum, though he looks like a very safe pick, and dont think Jackson will be there BTW.

PS.... all things equal, intensity remains a very important characteristic.... Jackson and Fox are fierce competitors, Monk is an iceman assassin... and Collins has a Lambeerish chip. Lolly-poppers like Isaac and Ball need not apply.

You've successfully epitomized what the anti-Issac crowd doesn't get. There are two skills that historically translate well from college to the pros - defensive impact and rebounding. Issac is the best prospect in the generally mocked top 10 at those two, historically transferable skills.

Players don't inherently have a lot of bust potential just because they have a high ceiling. That's not how this process works. Issac is already an elite defender and rebounder, so his floor is pretty high as well.

The "floater" criticism, the "lack of a killer mentality" vein of thought,. the bust potential... all of that is just noise. You guys are buying a narrative instead of looking at statistics. No one in the accepted top 10, outside of Markelle Fultz, had the impact that Issac did when they were on the floor.

Sorry ... there is more noise than that. Im not buying into the 'durant-like build' hype. He is a prime example of a kid who needs 2-3 years to be able to assess his worth. stats dont show everything. Besides...we already have a long young project in Bender. Why duplicate it? I give Bender all the minutes he needs over this string bean.

Seems more an more, there is a valid reason to deal this pick. 4-10 are all flawed but each having their strengths. To me, its the weaknesses that are very much equal in determining the selection, if we keep it.