Josh Jackson discussion, highlights, etc

[lilfishi22]

That's a tall order for being one of only six players posting as bad as numbers as he has over the last 18 years. I do understand to compile those numbers it requires a lot of playing time, but he simply makes the team a lot worse when he is on the floor. Sure there are times and games where he plays well, but given that we have wings who are very good at certain things, it doesn't make sense to pay him $9 million or whatever if we can get some team to take him for a 2nd. We could use that money more wisely.

A lot of posters are trying to find reasons to be optimistic about JJ but I think we have to accept the possibility that JJ is a bust relative to his draft position. And accept the possibility that we whiffed on 3 top 10 picks over two consecutive drafts. Once these fans accept that possibility then they can objectively evaluate and project JJ's impact going forward and whether he's worth keeping around.

After the teams recent play I feel like we have have a little time to wait for his value to increase before trading him. Depending where our lottery odds fall, It looks like we may be able to address pg/pf without needing his cap this summer. If we dump him this summer his cap needs to be put to good use.

I think it's a tall order to expect his trade value to increase much over these next how ever many games we have left. He's had all season to increase his trade value and he just hasn't done anything to make himself be considered more valuable than at the start of this season.

Are you saying we may be able to address both pg/pf or one of those positions?

[bwgood77]

That's a tall order for being one of only six players posting as bad as numbers as he has over the last 18 years. I do understand to compile those numbers it requires a lot of playing time, but he simply makes the team a lot worse when he is on the floor. Sure there are times and games where he plays well, but given that we have wings who are very good at certain things, it doesn't make sense to pay him $9 million or whatever if we can get some team to take him for a 2nd. We could use that money more wisely.

A lot of posters are trying to find reasons to be optimistic about JJ but I think we have to accept the possibility that JJ is a bust relative to his draft position. And accept the possibility that we whiffed on 3 top 10 picks over two consecutive drafts. Once these fans accept that possibility then they can objectively evaluate and project JJ's impact going forward and whether he's worth keeping around.

After the teams recent play I feel like we have have a little time to wait for his value to increase before trading him. Depending where our lottery odds fall, It looks like we may be able to address pg/pf without needing his cap this summer. If we dump him this summer his cap needs to be put to good use.

We likely have less than $10 million in space if we keep the cap holds for Oubre and Holmes, keep our draft pick, JJ and all other players under contract.

And if we trade pick and player for incoming player we likely don't gain cap space unless we take back less salary than we send out. The only way to simply create cap space for free agents is to renounce Oubre (very unlikely), Holmes (only creates $1.5 million or so), trade the pick without taking salary back, or trade JJ without taking salary back. It doesn't seem like we'd trade TJ without taking salary back.

Now maybe we get a PG and/or PF in trade. If we get the #1 pick we will only have about $6 million in cap space for a PG. However, I might be fine with Johnson and Melton/Okobo developing behind him. If we could dump Jackson for a 2nd or whatever pick, we could pick up Collison probably who might provide a nice rotation with Johnson but then that leaves Melton on the fringes as an expiring so he'd likely leave.

[Crives]

A lot of posters are trying to find reasons to be optimistic about JJ but I think we have to accept the possibility that JJ is a bust relative to his draft position. And accept the possibility that we whiffed on 3 top 10 picks over two consecutive drafts. Once these fans accept that possibility then they can objectively evaluate and project JJ's impact going forward and whether he's worth keeping around.

After the teams recent play I feel like we have have a little time to wait for his value to increase before trading him. Depending where our lottery odds fall, It looks like we may be able to address pg/pf without needing his cap this summer. If we dump him this summer his cap needs to be put to good use.

I think it's a tall order to expect his trade value to increase much over these next how ever many games we have left. He's had all season to increase his trade value and he just hasn't done anything to make himself be considered more valuable than at the start of this season.

Are you saying we may be able to address both pg/pf or one of those positions?

I think there are a few good scenarios to address pg/pf this summer while giving JJ until next trade deadline to increase his value. Maybe Something like we get Morant in the draft (play behind Tyler) and then sign Kleber or Vonleh. Next trade deadline trade Tyler + Josh + picks for a disgruntled perennial star if Josh increases value by then.

[lilfishi22]

After the teams recent play I feel like we have have a little time to wait for his value to increase before trading him. Depending where our lottery odds fall, It looks like we may be able to address pg/pf without needing his cap this summer. If we dump him this summer his cap needs to be put to good use.

I think it's a tall order to expect his trade value to increase much over these next how ever many games we have left. He's had all season to increase his trade value and he just hasn't done anything to make himself be considered more valuable than at the start of this season.

Are you saying we may be able to address both pg/pf or one of those positions?

I think there are a few good scenarios to address pg/pf this summer while giving JJ until next trade deadline to increase his value. Maybe Something like we get Morant in the draft (play behind Tyler) and then sign Kleber or Vonleh. Next trade deadline trade Tyler + Josh + picks for a disgruntled perennial star if Josh increases value by then.

I suppose that could happen. Ultimately, what we decide to do with JJ's 4th year option won't affect what we do this offseason unless we decide to trade him for cap space.

[Damkac]

Is there any solid veteran PG/PF Suns could get for Jackson?

[lilfishi22]

Is there any solid veteran PG/PF Suns could get for Jackson?

JJ has so little value right now, I just don't think there's anyone that would give up a solid vet for him. If he's moved, he'll need to be part of a package

[bigfoot]

Is there any solid veteran PG/PF Suns could get for Jackson?

JJ has so little value right now, I just don't think there's anyone that would give up a solid vet for him. If he's moved, he'll need to be part of a package

Agree. I think picks and JJ are going to have to be moved to get a quality veteran. We probably are gonna have to give up protected future 1st round picks and JJ to get a decent return. The Bucks pick really isn't that valuable being its about as good as an early second rounder.

[wheezy]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

For March, Jackson's shooting 45% from 3. Turnovers down to 1.7, giving him a 1.0 A/TO ratio for the month.

FWIW.

[lilfishi22]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

It's a tough situation because he had a great opportunity this year to really build on the productive (but highly inefficient) end to his rookie season and unfortunately he's been a negative since basically the summer league save for perhaps a handful or two of good games.

I think he's going to be moved this offseason mainly because it will give the next team an opportunity to get a closer look at JJ before having to pick up his 4th year option in Nov. As much as i wish he was was better but it's just hard to retain a guy for the amount he's on when he's such a negative and we already have a bunch of players ahead of him

[Crives]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

It's a tough situation because he had a great opportunity this year to really build on the productive (but highly inefficient) end to his rookie season and unfortunately he's been a negative since basically the summer league save for perhaps a handful or two of good games.

I think he's going to be moved this offseason mainly because it will give the next team an opportunity to get a closer look at JJ before having to pick up his 4th year option in Nov. As much as i wish he was was better but it's just hard to retain a guy for the amount he's on when he's such a negative and we already have a bunch of players ahead of him

Would be nice to trade him straight up for Ball. Both players have strong parts to their game but big questions in others.

[wheezy]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I take that bolded point to say more about our player development than Jackson's talent. Have other teams soured on Jackson? Sure probably. Everything I've heard about the guy though is that he's a gym rat. I'd pick up his 4th year option and get on him that this is his shot to make it. I think he's shown more flashes than TJ did his first two years, but I also say this having watched him a bit more in college so maybe I'm just fond of the idea of him and I am admittedly not a huge fan of Warren as a big part of this team. Lowe seemed at least one foot on Jackson Island.

Len was for sure underappreciated and under used here. I still think his current success probably has more to do with his situation in the east than his actual talent.

Simmons seemed to want Jackson to fit in as the 4 though considering his shooting numbers. I don't think I immediately disagree, I think given our depth at the wing spot it's more important for those guys to be able to move around and play 2-4 as needed and try to fit into those roles based on who is on the court to an extent. I think best case for Jackson is that he lives in the gym this summer. Get his body in a spot to take advantage of the 3-4 positions. Work on his shot a ton. Watch film of his mistakes and just try to listen to the coaching staff*. This guy isn't Earl Clark or Alando Tucker, so I'm not sure why we're on the forum acting like he didn't have things to work on going back to college when he clearly did. *BUT.... if he does that I think he could fill a role on this team Oubre and Bridges aren't occupying.

[Frank Lee]

Jackson is not a 4. will never be a 4 and continuing to wish that is doing no good for anyone involved. If we had a 4, this conversation would never occur. He's 6'8" and weighs a scant 205

All he has to do is shoot +35% from 3, be better with his non finishing drives, and reduce his turnovers. Sounds simple, but yet an elusive set of tasks that has often required a trip to Europe to fix. Nobody wants him to fail, but not everyone is going to succeed. If we can move him, I think we will. He put a 'trade me' label on his back when he blew off the fans.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I take that bolded point to say more about our player development than Jackson's talent. Have other teams soured on Jackson? Sure probably. Everything I've heard about the guy though is that he's a gym rat. I'd pick up his 4th year option and get on him that this is his shot to make it. I think he's shown more flashes than TJ did his first two years, but I also say this having watched him a bit more in college so maybe I'm just fond of the idea of him and I am admittedly not a huge fan of Warren as a big part of this team. Lowe seemed at least one foot on Jackson Island.

Len was for sure underappreciated and under used here. I still think his current success probably has more to do with his situation in the east than his actual talent.

Simmons seemed to want Jackson to fit in as the 4 though considering his shooting numbers. I don't think I immediately disagree, I think given our depth at the wing spot it's more important for those guys to be able to move around and play 2-4 as needed and try to fit into those roles based on who is on the court to an extent. I think best case for Jackson is that he lives in the gym this summer. Get his body in a spot to take advantage of the 3-4 positions. Work on his shot a ton. Watch film of his mistakes and just try to listen to the coaching staff*. This guy isn't Earl Clark or Alando Tucker, so I'm not sure why we're on the forum acting like he didn't have things to work on going back to college when he clearly did. *BUT.... if he does that I think he could fill a role on this team Oubre and Bridges aren't occupying.

I agree with Frank in that I'm not seeing it with him at the 4; I'm not sure he can put on the bulk needed to not get bullied by even the modern smaller 4's.

I go the other way and think his best spot is SG. He's played some of his best ball when Booker has been hurt and I think defensively he's better at guarding smaller quicker players vs bigger guys. Offensively I've always thought the best thing for him would be to play on an extreme run and gun team where he can get out in transition.

On the Lowe/Arnovitz comments I think it's a case where any time you have a high pick underachieving on a bad team/organization there will always be some teams who feel they can fix them. It's why all these guys end up getting multiple chances before they are out of the league. It's why I'm pretty confident if the Suns feel they need to clear some cap space this summer some team would be willing to take him into their space as a buy low type deal. And as I said I do think theres a chance he develops into a decent player I just have a hard time seeing it happening in Phoenix due to roster construction and the fact they are going to be desperate to win next year so at some point they need to remove some of the developmental players like Jackson and put in actual positive contributors something he just simply is not right now.

[Frank Lee]

For March, Jackson's shooting 45% from 3. Turnovers down to 1.7, giving him a 1.0 A/TO ratio for the month.

FWIW.

Good ... he's playing better over the last couple weeks.... sustainable ? We'll see. But its a good sign

[bwgood77]

Interesting listening to some different podcasts over the last week... Suns have garnered some attention by actually playing well lately, so Zach Lowe+Kevin Arnovitz & Bill Simmons+Ryan Russilo brought up Jackson on those podcasts. Lowe and Arnovitz agree that he's shown enough flashes to warrant more time. BS and Russilo are both out on him full stop, which they didn't exactly elaborate on but they did comment that he may just need a new team. Goes to show he's just as divisive nationally as he seems to be on the boards.

Funny though, they brought up a good point and former suns player on the BS podcast, namely that people always used to say "oh I'd love to see him play on the SSOL Suns" and now its more the opposite. Like now we have intriguing players on the team that people want to see succeed somewhere else. Which brought them to Alex Len and how well he's been doing this year on a new team (haven't watched him but I wonder how much of this is due to him being on a bad team in the east given a ton of minutes). I think our perception of Jackson has just as much to do with how bad our player development has been the last 10 years, and I would hate to give up on Jackson so early only to see him go somewhere else and figure it out like that. Hopefully some organizational stability this summer and time with Koko can push the kid in the right direction.

I listened to both pods too. I did find it interesting that arnovitz made the comment about other teams saying he would have been good if they picked him and Lowe straight up stopped him and had him clarify because he said what he heard is teams are not high on him. Arnovitz seemed to somewhat back track at that point.

I look at Len vs Jackson a little differently. I think locally Len was actually a little under appreciated where as Jackson is a little over valued. Difference being Jackson has had some flashy counting stat games. Len was pretty good last year and I think had the highest BPM on the team where as by some advanced stats Jackson is literally one of the worst offensive players in the league and just a medicore defender.

Now with all that said it's not impossible that Jackson could become a useful role player. I give him credit for working on his form and I guess he might be able turn into an average 3pt shooter and his biggest defensive problem is awareness and gambling both things that can get better with experience.

But it hard to see how he'll do that with the suns current roster. He's a 2/3 and at those positions the suns have Booker, oubre, Bridges, and Warren who are all clearly better players. Even if one of them is moved it's still hard to see a path for a ton of minutes. Plus they need to make some hard decisions on him quickly, by next Nov they need to decide on his 4th year option of 9 mil and that's a lot for a guy that you don't have a path to playing time. Even if you pick up the option he's a RFA in 2 years and you already have a bunch of money tied up at the wings and Bridges needing to be paid the following year.

It's just hard to see a path for this to work out.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I take that bolded point to say more about our player development than Jackson's talent. Have other teams soured on Jackson? Sure probably. Everything I've heard about the guy though is that he's a gym rat. I'd pick up his 4th year option and get on him that this is his shot to make it. I think he's shown more flashes than TJ did his first two years, but I also say this having watched him a bit more in college so maybe I'm just fond of the idea of him and I am admittedly not a huge fan of Warren as a big part of this team. Lowe seemed at least one foot on Jackson Island.

Len was for sure underappreciated and under used here. I still think his current success probably has more to do with his situation in the east than his actual talent.

Simmons seemed to want Jackson to fit in as the 4 though considering his shooting numbers. I don't think I immediately disagree, I think given our depth at the wing spot it's more important for those guys to be able to move around and play 2-4 as needed and try to fit into those roles based on who is on the court to an extent. I think best case for Jackson is that he lives in the gym this summer. Get his body in a spot to take advantage of the 3-4 positions. Work on his shot a ton. Watch film of his mistakes and just try to listen to the coaching staff*. This guy isn't Earl Clark or Alando Tucker, so I'm not sure why we're on the forum acting like he didn't have things to work on going back to college when he clearly did. *BUT.... if he does that I think he could fill a role on this team Oubre and Bridges aren't occupying.

That's weird..a lot of that sounds like you are talking about Warren. Gym rat, college play, etc. I have never heard that about JJ and the gym, but have about TJ. JJ has always seemed to be more about perceived upside due to athleticism and recruiting ranking, He was good at Kansas but TJ was winning Conference player of the year in the toughest conference in college basketball over other top recruits and 3 and 4 year players.

It would be interesting to know how much the team still believes in him though, given his likely low trade value and salary cap hit, along with a few much better wings.

[wheezy]

That's weird..a lot of that sounds like you are talking about Warren. Gym rat, college play, etc. I have never heard that about JJ and the gym, but have about TJ. JJ has always seemed to be more about perceived upside due to athleticism and recruiting ranking, He was good at Kansas but TJ was winning Conference player of the year in the toughest conference in college basketball over other top recruits and 3 and 4 year players.

It would be interesting to know how much the team still believes in him though, given his likely low trade value and salary cap hit, along with a few much better wings.

Maybe this is based more on predraft hype, but a lot of people were saying Josh is in the gym a ton. “I think the best player probably is going to be Josh Jackson,” Majerle told Doug and Wolf Tuesday on 98.7 FM, Arizona’s Sports Station. “Just because his size, how athletic he is, he’s a gym rat, he’s got a high, high motor and I see him coming into the NBA and thing about him right now is his weakness is his shot, but he’s a guy that really going to work on his shot and I think he’s going to become a really good shooter. So his ability to play both ways, his competitiveness, he’s going to be really good.” lol

http://arizonasports.com/story/1147176/former-suns-kempton-majerle-hope-suns-can-take-josh-jackson/

[LV-Suns]

Josh Jackson is the Okafor of the draft. We got forced to take him by default due to the predraft hype without doing our homework. The red flags were clearly there even in college.

[Crives]

Joshs 3p% is at 43% over the last 9 games (12/28). His shooting has definitely looked better.