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I think it is time to create a Thread dedicated to our Coach Earl Watson. This thread would be the place to hold him accountable for his actions. We have discussed every player on our roster and other rosters around the league with both positive comments as well as derogatory comments. At this point no blame or criticism is being leveled at our coach. I for one think he is horrible. I have no idea who most of the coaches are that he has hired and what their coaching background is. It seem they are personal friends he has met along the way. We need basketball coaches to groom our youngsters into a competitive group. We have had little or no flow to our offense since he was announced as our coach. Our defense seems to be worse. I see little or no improvement in the players he inherited. Why should we give him more new players if he cannot improve what he received when he got this job?

I see his job description covering these areas, there could be more

1. Hiring the assistant coaches - quick frankly who the hell was that guy coaching our summer league team?
2. Who are our other assistant coaches - what is there background - are they used to losing games as much as Earl Watson is?
3. Who is in charge of our offense - All the blame for poor passing cannot be because Eric Bledsoe is our Point guard
4. Who is in charge of our defense - All the blame cannot be put on Booker
5. Who is in charge with keeping our team in shape - what in the hell happened to Chriss in a short time.

We just seem to beat up our players all the time for poor performance. Yet this guys stands with his hands in his pockets and leaves the game after another loss like it is just another day at the office. He seems to have no fire in his belly after a bad play, bad call or a close loss. I am probably wrong in my evaluation but that is the way I see it.

I think we have a fine group of talent and if properly coached could actually be pretty good in the future and should be entertaining in the upcoming season. My real question is if our coaching staff is capable or putting them in a position to succeed.
I am tired of hearing that Earl Watson is a good coach. He just isn't in my book.

To BWGOOD and all the other moderators. I think either the thread I just created or another with more clarity on the subject at hand should be made a sticky and kept open for comments as to Watson's progress as a coach, both good and bad. I would really like to know all this good stuff he reportedly does.

Feel free to delete this thread if you wish - I know you will anyway if you do not like it, but somehow Watson has to be held accountable for his actions both good and bad. I want to not only hear about the bad I want to hear about the good, so that I can feel better if we continue to lose a butt load of games which appears more likely than not. This is not intended to be a hate thread but and update on his progress as our head coach. We seem to do that with all of our players - why not our coach?

I would at least like to see a poll made up to evaluate his job performance to date and how confident posters are in his ability to make the group of young men we have a legit playoff contender in the future.

This thread will put him front and center. He will and should get credit for progress as well as criticism or lack thereof. At this point he is my biggest concern, not what happens to Brandon Knight or Alex Len. Both of those guys have regressed under coach Watson's leadership, IMO.

It's an open forum and everyone has opinions so it's great to voice yours. I don't know that the thread needs to be stickied, and it certainly won't be deleted, but since it's the offseason and I imagine it will stay near the top of the page for a bit, but if it drops and gets buried and is relevant it can be stickied.

As far as my opinion on Watson goes, all I can say is that I love how the team seems bought in. I have no idea whether he is a good in game coach or not, though I imagine he learns through experience. But I will say, having one team on the same page and liking playing together is probably more important in my book than in game decisions and coaching strategy, at least until your team gets to a certain level. Sometimes I do feel he might favor some players over others who might be better, but I'm not sure about that.

I certainly wouldn't be game for a huge disruption right now though. We've had enough of those as of late.

bwgood77 wrote:It's an open forum and everyone has opinions so it's great to voice yours. I don't know that the thread needs to be stickied, and it certainly won't be deleted, but since it's the offseason and I imagine it will stay near the top of the page for a bit, but if it drops and gets buried and is relevant it can be stickied.

As far as my opinion on Watson goes, all I can say is that I love how the team seems bought in. I have no idea whether he is a good in game coach or not, though I imagine he learns through experience. But I will say, having one team on the same page and liking playing together is probably more important in my book than in game decisions and coaching strategy, at least until your team gets to a certain level. Sometimes I do feel he might favor some players over others who might be better, but I'm not sure about that.

I certainly wouldn't be game for a huge disruption right now though. We've had enough of those as of late.

That is fair, I respect yours and everyone else's opinion. I just want fun basketball to watch win or lose. It has not been much fun recently. I do not think a change is in order at this point either but I would hope that management gives him legit goals to meet for the upcoming season.

I suggested a poll on this subject. I do not know how to create one but I am really interested in how most posters feel about his performance to date and their confidence in him to lead us in the future. I could be the lone dissenter, but I do not think so.

Puff wrote:At this point no blame or criticism is being leveled at our coach.

I'm not sure which discussions you've missed. Outside of being credited for helping build an affable locker room environment, his criticism regarding gameplans has been largely negative. Look no further than the Nashty/Cactus polls- he's only received negative votes.

I see little or no improvement in the players he inherited. Why should we give him more new players if he cannot improve what he received when he got this job?

He's only been coach for a year and a half, so like grading our 2nd year players- to early to judge. I disagree that there has been little improvement...here's a list of players that have played under Coach Watson, bolding names of active NBA players:

Eric Bledsoe: had his best season last year
Devin Booker: certainly improved from season 1 to season 2
Archie Goodwin: perhaps had his best moments when he was starting as a Sun, but he's still a fringe NBA player (sorry 1UPZ)
Brandon Knight: you may have a case here, he's gotten worse under Watson
Alex Len: a case here too, but IMO his best stretch was in his second season
Jon Leuer: after being traded for a second round draft pick he got a solid contract with the Pistons
Markieff Morris: give McD most of the credit here, but he was good enough in his final games with the Suns (after being out of the rotation with Hornacek) to score a 1st round pick
Mirza Teletovic: signed a nice four year deal with the Bucks
PJ Tucker: an older player with a limited skillset, but maintained his intensity despite the teams lack of success
TJ Warren: definitely had his best season last year
Alan Williams: looked like a gimmicky Horacio Llamas type signing at first...but he is a solid backup big, even if his style of play doesn't exactly suit today's NBA
Dragan Bender: reserving judgment; he was injured most of the season
Marquese Chriss: certainly improved from the start to the end of the season, was on the All Rookie 2nd team
Tyler Ulis: certainly improved from the start to the end of the season, won rookie of month once he became a starter
Derrick Jones: made minor improvements I suppose, but I don't think he's projected to ever be a rotation player in this league
Elijah Millsap: doesn't make sense to judge based on 2 games

and then players who are no longer in the league

Lorenzo Brown
Chase Budinger
Jordan McRae
Phil Pressey
John Jenkins
Sonny Weems

and veterans, outside of maybe Chandler, that would be 10th-12th men on playoff teams

Tyson Chandler
Jared Dudley
Leandro Barbosa
Kris Humphries
Ronnie Price

so, my point here is: Watson hasn't had the best group of talent to work with to give him a proper analysis: but overall, the younger players are developing adequately and the players that were on rookie contracts or recent extensions have roles on playoff teams or close (Leuer, Teletovic, Tucker, Morris).

But I do believe, that under a different coach, players like TJ Warren wouldn't be as oft-relegated to decoy or 'plan b' plays in the offense, there would be a use for Len and Knight, and overall, there would be more offensive chemistry. I think that individual development is certainly there, it's just the overall cohesion that is lacking.

1. Hiring the assistant coaches - quick frankly who the hell was that guy coaching our summer league team?

a former player (international mostly) and assistant coach with the Spurs

2. Who are our other assistant coaches - what is there background - are they used to losing games as much as Earl Watson is?

Nate Bjorkgren was the D-League affiliate coach who got promoted alongside Watson, and is also a local product (he coached high school). Ty Corbin coached Earl in Utah and before that was with the Sacramento Kings so yes he is used to losing. Jay Triano was a coach of the Canada National team, as well as the Raptors. Mehmet Okur was a teammate of Earl. Not sure about the other guys.

We just seem to beat up our players all the time for poor performance. Yet this guys stands with his hands in his pockets and leaves the game after another loss like it is just another day at the office. He seems to have no fire in his belly after a bad play, bad call or a close loss. I am probably wrong in my evaluation but that is the way I see it.

Yeah, overall, there's isn't much to convince me that he will be a good coach. But I just want consistency and patience at this point, with the plan, the players, and the staff. I don't see much benefit in bringing in a mediocre coach with more experience at this point, when the players here still respect and trust Watson.

We had a couple of years of toxicity on multiple levels. Whether or not Watson is a good X's and O's type of coach, he is great at building character and culture. And those 2 things have been desperately needed over the past few years.

I think he's a fine coach for the time being.

Similar to some of the players on our team like Chandler, Dudley, maybe Bledsoe etc, I don't think Watson will be coaching the next title contending Suns team.

But he's okay for this rebuilding team of super young players since he acts like a dad to the Suns players and has many philosophical teachings for them.

When it comes to actual basketball coaching and Xs and Os, yeah he doesn't know anything at all. I can't remember one time during the last season when I thought to myself "Wow that was a nice play the Suns ran".

But like I said, I'm fine with him for now while we're rebuilding. When it's time to win, then they should think about making a change.

I'm coy on the development of our players under Earl.

Bled: Yeah big tick. Unquestionably his best season. You'd have anticipated that growth anyway based on his age/talent. But still, Earl was coach so he deserves some credit.

Quese: Hasn't improved on anything from college. High minutes have overshadowed that.

Book: Has probably shown more playmaking ability than he ever did in college, so tick for that. Difficult to tell if it's real though because all of it has been inefficient. Hasn't improved on any other weaknesses.

Bender: Jumper looks better than it did underage, but he still can't shoot over anyone. Rest of his weaknesses are just as they were.

BK: Gone backwards.

Len: Gone backwards.

TJ: Improved his scoring and rebounding. Free throw shooting has improved which is a good sign. Tick.

I am really happy with Watson as a HC.

Our guys play hard for him, and we haven't had locker room problems at all on a losing season. He is a great motivator, and with a young roster that is the best attribute that a coach can have.

Watson seems more of a life mentor than a coach. I think he is suited better for the college game....then again, I guess he is here because most our players should still be in college.

He just doesn't seem to have a ball buster basketball mind. He's a coddle coach

He'll coach the next 2 years as the fall guy before Sarver pays for a win now coach.

Watson is great as a motivator, team rah rah guy. He has a dismal offensive system. If he cannot step that up over the next year, we probably need to move on. I am a company guy, usually. I have given Watson the benefit of the doubt. But I just do not believe he puts our players in a place to be most effective.

charley barkles wrote:We had a couple of years of toxicity on multiple levels. Whether or not Watson is a good X's and O's type of coach, he is great at building character and culture. And those 2 things have been desperately needed over the past few years.

Sorry that sounds like the company line. I expect it is part of their sell job to season ticket holders. I don't know of any rapes, wife beating, shooting at a bar at 3:00 AM but those are things that are expected not to happen.

This character and culture stuff is smoke and mirrors IMO. His primary job is not child care it is winning basketball games, while putting a product on the floor that entertains. I don't know what Alvin Gentry did to ruin our culture and character, yet he got fired. For not winning basketball games.

jcsunsfan wrote:Watson is great as a motivator, team rah rah guy. He has a dismal offensive system. If he cannot step that up over the next year, we probably need to move on. I am a company guy, usually. I have given Watson the benefit of the doubt. But I just do not believe he puts our players in a place to be most effective.

I just don't see the motivator part with him that most see. I see him are being well liked by all the players. I don't see getting in any of the players faces, ever. His current goal appears to having the players be more competitive and to get in their opponents face. I love competitive players, that is why I really am happy with our draft pick this year. Jackson appears to be the ultimate competitor. However I was not thrilled with him staring down his ex Kansas teammate after he blocked his shot in summer league. Those are the things that I remember Watson doing as a player. My problem is that I never liked Watson as a player. If he gets this team to play competitive basketball on both ends of the court every night of the week. I just might change my mind.

I think this is a big year for Watson. If this team makes some real positive steps, we should extend him. If we do no make progress we need to move on. As to who would be a good replacement, I have not clue.

Puff wrote:I think this is a big year for Watson. If this team makes some real positive steps, we should extend him. If we do no make progress we need to move on. As to who would be a good replacement, I have not clue.

Young successful college coach with a track record of winning above the talent level available to him. Do not get an old curmudgeon washed up NBA coach. Even Mike D Antoni would not be good for this team.

Fresh, innovative, young, good mind. That's the ticket. Brad Stevens type of coach.

I would take Spoolstra, if we could get him though.

jcsunsfan wrote:

Puff wrote:I think this is a big year for Watson. If this team makes some real positive steps, we should extend him. If we do no make progress we need to move on. As to who would be a good replacement, I have not clue.

Young successful college coach with a track record of winning above the talent level available to him. Do not get an old curmudgeon washed up NBA coach. Even Mike D Antoni would not be good for this team.

Fresh, innovative, young, good mind. That's the ticket. Brad Stevens type of coach.

I would take Spoolstra, if we could get him though.

In all due respects. MDA has better things to do.

I am not as convinced as many on Brad Stevens. We will see how they do this season with 2 very good additions. IMO, they became more and more dependent on IT as the season progressed. They have added two legit scorers, IT's numbers should go down.

I really like Spoelstra. One of the top coaches in the league.

Probably unfair to say he hasn't had criticism levelled against him, unless most of my comments about him were ignored lol

I honestly still have not warmed up to him. To me he's still the guy who was brought off the bench to be your temp starter until you bring in a truly starting quality player. I will 100% give him props for getting the team to buy into the team mentality, to play for each other and to band together and stay motivated when things got rough. That's tough to do and he's great at that but to me, that's only one part of coaching. I also give him props for dealing with Knight, Bledsoe and Chandler after they were forced to sit.

That's where things turn south for me. After 115 games (almost a season and a half), he still hasn't proven to me he's anything more than an average coach in terms of drawing up plays and making the game easier for his players. As I mentioned, he's great at motivating the players but that's only one part of coaching. Buying into the team aspect is important but so is having a system that the team can buy into. I don't think he has a system for the team to buy into. And that leads to the other big part of being a great coach and that's being a great coach in practice creating roles, drilling plays and building a system/offensive philosophy which is applicable in the game. The third big part of coaching is making in-game adjustments, which I haven't seen much of other than sitting players who aren't playing well, although he did deviate from even that in 2nd half of the season when he was just playing the youngsters regardless of their play. So right now, I'm disappointed in 2 of those 3 major aspects of coaching. I'm well aware we're a young team so it's not all on him and to an extent I agree it's not an easy job.

So where do we go from here then? If he's not experienced enough and hasn't shown enough success outside of getting the team to stay motivated, then does that mean he's perhaps more suitable as an assistant coach? I don't think he's going back to becoming an assistant coach for us (which I'd love to see him stay as) but I think with the meteoric rise of Booker, TJ finding some consistency while staying efficient, Bledsoe continuing to play at an AS level and our young players looking for some direction, I think we're ready for a step up in coaching acumen and experience.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246929/Kenny-Atkinson-Explains-Why-He-Coached-Nets-In-Summer-League

I really do not know much about Kenny Atkinson but the more I hear the more I like, nice article.

He decided to coach the summer league team rather than just hanging out. I think this was the right thing to do.

I don't know how it could have hurt anything if Watson would have coached the summer league team the past 2 or is it 3 summers since he has been our coach. I actually do no understand why this job is delegated to the assistants. Some of these payers are going to play for the head coach. If I were him I would want to know my potential players as much and up close as possible.

Quite frankly I do not remember any other coach in the league other than Atkinson that has done this. Kudos to him.

I think young coaches, especially those without the much assistant coaching or college coaching experience, should look at coaching SL. There might only be 3-4 guys who will make the team or already are with the team but it's still a good opportunity to coach a fresh bunch of players who are desperate for good coaching and direction.

Just read the Arizona Republic evaluation on our defensive numbers last season and they are pretty bad. Watson continues to use the excuse of the players being young etc etc etc. The punk ball that Wooden was coaching last season apparently did not work.

We drafted a potential defensive stopper.

If we continue to suck on defense, what will Watson's next excuse or adjustment be?

It also was interesting that the great Jared Dudley suggested that middle of the pack is just fine on defense. That result was not accepted in the MDA era and he basically was given the door.

Well, Pringles was also under the microscope of regular season success, and improving our defense was the thing that would put us in the finals.

Watson needs regular season success first, so improvement is what we're looking for. If our defense is middle of the pack this season, that would be a good step in the right direction.