Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

King4Day · Post #1 » by **King4Day** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:26 pm

This might be a good time to begin a new thread. Before anything happens that starts up heavy conversation.

Continued from: viewtopic.php?p=58157063#p58157063

LukasBMW · Post #2 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:26 pm

jredsaz wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
MilotheSlayer wrote:Can someone check on Bled? Seems a little off his rocker tonight?

Yeah, i hate all this cryptic ****. Its like he wants to say something.....but cant.

Read on Twitter

He might be pissed that he was completely left out of the new uniform unveiling.

$50 says Bledsoe's tweets were about a girl.

"This (breakup) hurt."

"This (breakup) will only make me stronger."

jredsaz · Post #3 » by **jredsaz** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:49 pm

LukasBMW wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
Yeah, i hate all this cryptic ****. Its like he wants to say something.....but cant.

Read on Twitter

He might be pissed that he was completely left out of the new uniform unveiling.

$50 says Bledsoe's tweets were about a girl.

"This (breakup) hurt."

"This (breakup) will only make me stronger."

He just got married.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

LukasBMW · Post #4 » by **LukasBMW** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:00 pm

jredsaz wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
He might be pissed that he was completely left out of the new uniform unveiling.

$50 says Bledsoe's tweets were about a girl.

"This (breakup) hurt."

"This (breakup) will only make me stronger."

He just got married.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

He's a pro athlete. Might have had to get rid of a side chick.

jredsaz · Post #5 » by **jredsaz** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:25 pm

LukasBMW wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:
$50 says Bledsoe's tweets were about a girl.

"This (breakup) hurt."

"This (breakup) will only make me stronger."

He just got married.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

He's a pro athlete. Might have had to get rid of a side chick.

Yeah. I dont think you tweet about a side piece but its possible

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

TOO · Post #6 » by **TOO** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:35 pm

You guys must be really bored. :lol:

AtheJ415 · Post #7 » by **AtheJ415** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:36 pm

I fail to see why this "Winslow is good at defense in a rare way" is relevant when his overall numbers are what they are. I could argue it is as rare if not rarer for anybody to be as bad offensively as he has been thus far. Even rookies. Even vets. Everyone. I was not really exaggerating when I said I could argue he is the worst offensive player in basketball based on his numbers. Winslow still has plenty of opportunity to reach his ceiling, but to argue that he is a blue chip prospect when he was the 10th pick of what was considered at the time to be a mediocre to weak draft and has not had the immediate impact that caused most to rate him so highly, and has not looked like a future superstar or even potential 2 way player thus far, is a stretch. He has not had the impact he was expected to when he was labeled a win now player and a superstar at the time of the draft when the push was for him to go to NYK in the top 5. He slipped all the way to 10, and since then has proven to be a net negative player who excels on one side of the ball and is absolutely brutally awful on the other. Since people have to play both ways, that matters. If he's going to be a career defensive wing specialist, well, I don't consider that a blue chip prospect, just as I don't consider PJ Tucker, Tony Allen, and other 1 sided players to be blue chip players.

To believe in Winslow as a blue chip prospect is to believe that he will become the offensive player he was supposed to be. That can certainly happen, but there is no reason to believe in that more today than at the time he was drafted because he was better on that end at Duke than he has been thus far in the NBA. So to me, he's a 10th pick who is closer to FA where his pay likely goes up, and probably wouldn't go that high in a re-draft and I would probably put his value around a 15th-20th pick of a typical draft. I fail to see how that is blue chip.

Post #8 » by **bwgood77** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:55 pm

AtheJ415 wrote:I fail to see why this "Winslow is good at defense in a rare way" is relevant when his overall numbers are what they are. I could argue it is as rare if not rarer for anybody to be as bad offensively as he has been thus far. Even rookies. Even vets. Everyone. I was not really exaggerating when I said I could argue he is the worst offensive player in basketball based on his numbers. Winslow still has plenty of opportunity to reach his ceiling, but to argue that he is a blue chip prospect when he was the 10th pick of what was considered at the time to be a mediocre to weak draft and has not had the immediate impact that caused most to rate him so highly, and has not looked like a future superstar or even potential 2 way player thus far, is a stretch. He has not had the impact he was expected to when he was labeled a win now player and a superstar at the time of the draft when the push was for him to go to NYK in the top 5. He slipped all the way to 10, and since then has proven to be a net negative player who excels on one side of the ball and is absolutely brutally awful on the other. Since people have to play both ways, that matters. If he's going to be a career defensive wing specialist, well, I don't consider that a blue chip prospect, just as I don't consider PJ Tucker, Tony Allen, and other 1 sided players to be blue chip players.

To believe in Winslow as a blue chip prospect is to believe that he will become the offensive player he was supposed to be. That can certainly happen, but there is no reason to believe in that more today than at the time he was drafted because he was better on that end at Duke than he has been thus far in the NBA. So to me, he's a 10th pick who is closer to FA where his pay likely goes up, and probably wouldn't go that high in a re-draft and I would probably put his value around a 15th-20th pick of a typical draft. I fail to see how that is blue chip.

I never mentioned Winslow was a blue chip prospect. That was the OKC poster from a few days ago. I was just mentioning that I wouldn't write him off based largely off of one year, since he was injured most of his second year and never really had a chance to get going, before our discussion got interrupted and completely derailed based on a tidbit of our conversation.

I don't know for sure what he'll bring, but he's still very early in his career to make a definitive judgement. I do agree that it would be very hard for Cleveland to play him many minutes if he is that bad on offense. He could help defensively, but I don't think you could hide him on offense. That being said, I don't think Chriss or Bender would get (or at least deserve) any playing time in Cleveland right now either. And I don't think they consider either to be a blue chip prospect just as they probably don't consider Winslow to be one.

Saberestar · Post #9 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:00 pm

Read on Twitter

Saberestar · Post #10 » by **Saberestar** » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:03 pm

I have found this interview via reddit...

Watch on YouTube

Giles was the guy that said that he grow up a little bit, he says that he is now 6'10.5 at the interview.

It wasn't Josh Jackson. AT ALL.

carey · Post #11 » by **carey** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:16 am

Saberestar wrote:Giles was the guy that said that he grow up a little bit, he says that he is now 6'10.5 at the interview.

It wasn't Josh Jackson. AT ALL.

Excellent sleuthing.

collidingNeurons · Post #12 » by **collidingNeurons** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:11 am

with Bagley reclassifying i dont want Kyrie at all now, jut trade bledsoe for the best pick we can get, unload chandler on someone for whatever and pray for one of the first 5 picks, I wouldn't be in favor of trading any one of the first 5 pick for Kyrie alone, nor jackson for Kyrie straight up much less combos of assets that included either of those

Post #13 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 am

I'm off the Irving train. Cavs taking too long.

AtheJ415 · Post #14 » by **AtheJ415** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:09 am

collidingNeurons wrote:with Bagley reclassifying i dont want Kyrie at all now, jut trade bledsoe for the best pick we can get, unload chandler on someone for whatever and pray for one of the first 5 picks, I wouldn't be in favor of trading any one of the first 5 pick for Kyrie alone, nor jackson for Kyrie straight up much less combos of assets that included either of those

I think we'd still be bottom 5 even with Kyrie. The gap between him and Bled is not much, and we'd likely be including other positive players to get him.

That said, I am all about the tank. 1 more season and we can look at a core that rivals any of the others imo relative to age.

King4Day · Post #15 » by **King4Day** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:14 pm

The Cavaliers find themselves far more fixated on a young star, including New York's Kristaps Porzingis, Boston's Jayson Tatum, Phoenix's Josh Jackson and Denver's Jamal Murray, league sources told ESPN.

Cleveland is determined to get an elite young player for Irving, which means this: The trade plan the Cavaliers would have prioritized, with James committed for the long term -- veterans to surround James and draft picks -- isn't in motion. If the Cavaliers knew they had James committed, for example, San Antonio could emerge as a more intriguing trade partner. The Spurs have interest in Irving, league sources say, and Irving's willingness to commit to an extension with the Spurs makes for legitimate win-now deal possibilities for Cleveland. Without James beyond next season, though, the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Tony Parker and Danny Green hold no appeal.

This Irving trade process has been deliberate, and teams believe the Cavaliers expect more aggressive conversations in September, closer to the start of training camps. Porzingis has emerged as a primary Cleveland target, but that's a conversation that can occur only with Cleveland's willingness to unburden the Knicks of the three years and $55 million left on Joakim Noah's contract. For now, the conversation is a nonstarter for the Knicks, league sources said.

When Irving's trade request became public in mid-July, there was internal hope that the news would stir the market to furnish Cleveland with a return that could deliver impact to the 2017-18 season with James, as well as the possibility of a future without him. That hasn't happened, and it's become clear that Irving isn't commanding that kind of robust return on the market.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

BobbieL · Post #16 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:18 pm

DarkHawk wrote:
The Cavaliers find themselves far more fixated on a young star, including New York's Kristaps Porzingis, Boston's Jayson Tatum, Phoenix's Josh Jackson and Denver's Jamal Murray, league sources told ESPN.

Cleveland is determined to get an elite young player for Irving, which means this: The trade plan the Cavaliers would have prioritized, with James committed for the long term -- veterans to surround James and draft picks -- isn't in motion. If the Cavaliers knew they had James committed, for example, San Antonio could emerge as a more intriguing trade partner. The Spurs have interest in Irving, league sources say, and Irving's willingness to commit to an extension with the Spurs makes for legitimate win-now deal possibilities for Cleveland. Without James beyond next season, though, the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Tony Parker and Danny Green hold no appeal.

This Irving trade process has been deliberate, and teams believe the Cavaliers expect more aggressive conversations in September, closer to the start of training camps. Porzingis has emerged as a primary Cleveland target, but that's a conversation that can occur only with Cleveland's willingness to unburden the Knicks of the three years and $55 million left on Joakim Noah's contract. For now, the conversation is a nonstarter for the Knicks, league sources said.

When Irving's trade request became public in mid-July, there was internal hope that the news would stir the market to furnish Cleveland with a return that could deliver impact to the 2017-18 season with James, as well as the possibility of a future without him. That hasn't happened, and it's become clear that Irving isn't commanding that kind of robust return on the market.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

I read this and hope the Suns stay firm in their commitment to Josh Jackson. Zero reason to move him. And by the looks of it - Celtics, Nuggets and Knicks aren't moving the young guys either

I still don't see the allure of the San Antonio trade long term for the Cavs. Green and LMA seem redundant when you have JR Smith, Kevin Love and its not like Tony Parker is the same guy he once was. So, like the writer says, without LeBron long term, those guys don't make sense. Heck for me, they don't make sense now!

As for the Suns, with Bagley in the class - that makes 5 legit guys: Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Ancic at the top of the draft -- seems like its best to be a top 5 team next year. Trade Bled for Frank N and call it good. I am not sure its workth taking Noah because Knight is unmovable now -- - but if Chandler went - would think about it

NYK: Irving Knight - I get he is hurt but they are losing the Noah contract
Cleveland: Bledsoe, Chandler and picks from the Knicks

Suns: Noah, Frank N, Frye, Kuzminkas - cap filler

Suns would pretty much solidify a top 5 pick for one of the aforementioned players without wrecking long term cap too much

jredsaz · Post #17 » by **jredsaz** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:06 pm

BobbieL wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:
The Cavaliers find themselves far more fixated on a young star, including New York's Kristaps Porzingis, Boston's Jayson Tatum, Phoenix's Josh Jackson and Denver's Jamal Murray, league sources told ESPN.

Cleveland is determined to get an elite young player for Irving, which means this: The trade plan the Cavaliers would have prioritized, with James committed for the long term -- veterans to surround James and draft picks -- isn't in motion. If the Cavaliers knew they had James committed, for example, San Antonio could emerge as a more intriguing trade partner. The Spurs have interest in Irving, league sources say, and Irving's willingness to commit to an extension with the Spurs makes for legitimate win-now deal possibilities for Cleveland. Without James beyond next season, though, the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Tony Parker and Danny Green hold no appeal.

This Irving trade process has been deliberate, and teams believe the Cavaliers expect more aggressive conversations in September, closer to the start of training camps. Porzingis has emerged as a primary Cleveland target, but that's a conversation that can occur only with Cleveland's willingness to unburden the Knicks of the three years and $55 million left on Joakim Noah's contract. For now, the conversation is a nonstarter for the Knicks, league sources said.

When Irving's trade request became public in mid-July, there was internal hope that the news would stir the market to furnish Cleveland with a return that could deliver impact to the 2017-18 season with James, as well as the possibility of a future without him. That hasn't happened, and it's become clear that Irving isn't commanding that kind of robust return on the market.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

I read this and hope the Suns stay firm in their commitment to Josh Jackson. Zero reason to move him. And by the looks of it - Celtics, Nuggets and Knicks aren't moving the young guys either

I still don't see the allure of the San Antonio trade long term for the Cavs. Green and LMA seem redundant when you have JR Smith, Kevin Love and its not like Tony Parker is the same guy he once was. So, like the writer says, without LeBron long term, those guys don't make sense. Heck for me, they don't make sense now!

As for the Suns, with Bagley in the class - that makes 5 legit guys: Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Ancic at the top of the draft -- seems like its best to be a top 5 team next year. Trade Bled for Frank N and call it good. I am not sure its workth taking Noah because Knight is unmovable now -- - but if Chandler went - would think about it

NYK: Irving Knight - I get he is hurt but they are losing the Noah contract
Cleveland: Bledsoe, Chandler and picks from the Knicks

Suns: Noah, Frank N, Frye, Kuzminkas - cap filler

Suns would pretty much solidify a top 5 pick for one of the aforementioned players without wrecking long term cap too much

I wouldn't trade Bledsoe and cap space for Frank N and Noah. Noah has the worst contract in the NBA. We would need a puck coming back as well.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

jredsaz · Post #18 » by **jredsaz** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Don't you just know we will finish with the fourth worst record and the sixth overall pick in next year's draft? Lol

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #19 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Holding two picks leading into this draft is going to be a significant advantage.

BobbieL · Post #20 » by **BobbieL** » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:20 pm

jredsaz wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20343088/lebron-future-impacts-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-trades

I read this and hope the Suns stay firm in their commitment to Josh Jackson. Zero reason to move him. And by the looks of it - Celtics, Nuggets and Knicks aren't moving the young guys either

I still don't see the allure of the San Antonio trade long term for the Cavs. Green and LMA seem redundant when you have JR Smith, Kevin Love and its not like Tony Parker is the same guy he once was. So, like the writer says, without LeBron long term, those guys don't make sense. Heck for me, they don't make sense now!

As for the Suns, with Bagley in the class - that makes 5 legit guys: Porter, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Ancic at the top of the draft -- seems like its best to be a top 5 team next year. Trade Bled for Frank N and call it good. I am not sure its workth taking Noah because Knight is unmovable now -- - but if Chandler went - would think about it

NYK: Irving Knight - I get he is hurt but they are losing the Noah contract
Cleveland: Bledsoe, Chandler and picks from the Knicks

Suns: Noah, Frank N, Frye, Kuzminkas - cap filler

Suns would pretty much solidify a top 5 pick for one of the aforementioned players without wrecking long term cap too much

I wouldn't trade Bledsoe and cap space for Frank N and Noah. Noah has the worst contract in the NBA. We would need a puck coming back as well.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

Its why I am trading Knight as both Noah and Knight have three years left with Noah a few million higher that last year. Let me be crystal clear - I would not take back Noah without somehow moving the Knight contract

And since that seems unrealistic - its not going to happen

With those players at the top 5 - almost ready to not make any trade that involves losing the Heat pick even. That might be enough to move up one spot in this draft.