Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 1

[AtheJ415]

I have always thought Atlanta would be better than expected. They played well at Dallas. I think this tankathon will come down to us, Indy, and Chicago. Maybe Sac, but I think they end up better.

We really should end up with one of Bagley, Porter, Doncic.

I have little to no faith in Watson. I see him as a chemistry keeper until the team is old enough to demand wins. This team has more talent than it's shown. I think the rotations are absolute nonsense at the moment, and cannot understand why Chriss or Len isn't starting over Tyson (I know Len is hurt but believe Watson would've started Chandler regardless).

I really hate not extending Len. In a more simplified role he could have always thrived, and I feel like he will finally do that and we will have to pay him based off of this 1 year or else watch him walk. I think last season while risky, would've been a good time to try to get him locked in on a lower deal (like 8 a year for 3 years with team options).

[bwgood77]

I have always thought Atlanta would be better than expected. They played well at Dallas. I think this tankathon will come down to us, Indy, and Chicago. Maybe Sac, but I think they end up better.

We really should end up with one of Bagley, Porter, Doncic.

I have little to no faith in Watson. I see him as a chemistry keeper until the team is old enough to demand wins. This team has more talent than it's shown. I think the rotations are absolute nonsense at the moment, and cannot understand why Chriss or Len isn't starting over Tyson (I know Len is hurt but believe Watson would've started Chandler regardless).

I really hate not extending Len. In a more simplified role he could have always thrived, and I feel like he will finally do that and we will have to pay him based off of this 1 year or else watch him walk. I think last season while risky, would've been a good time to try to get him locked in on a lower deal (like 8 a year for 3 years with team options).

I think Indiana will be decent. I thought about putting them 8th or 9th in the EC predictions and I think their starting lineup is decent. They scored 140 tonight. Granted, it was the Nets they played, but still, their starting lineup looks like a decent fit together and the conferenece is weak. I don't expect Chicago to be very good at all though. I think it's between us and them and perhaps Sac, but they have some decent vets and seem fairly deep with at least ok players. We have a handful that CAN be good at times but few are consistent. Warren usually is, but not tonight.

[Mulhollanddrive]

I think it'll take low 20s wins to get one of the top tier guys, so either we want a season of that or we don't and I'm not sure after today that consensus does.

[bwgood77]

I think it'll take low 20s wins to get one of the top tier guys, so either we want a season of that or we don't and I'm not sure after today that consensus does.

It doesn't really matter what we want. What's going to happen is going to happen. Jeremy Lin is out for the year, so that was a blow for them, meaning Cleveland has a better chance at a good pick. However, they have enough bad teams to beat each other up some. Orlando, Indiana and Atlanta already won and the Kings nearly beat the Rockets.

[ATTL]

I was expecting Jeremy Lin to be somewhat healthy this year. They played really well with him last season.

[bigfoot]

Bledsoe is checked out. Hell we did better and played harder last season with him on the bench. I'm read for this **** nut to go.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not trading bledsoe this summer was a mistake. Signing tyson chandler was a huge **** mistake from the minute they did it. I'm fine having some vet leadership around but on cheap contracts not **** ridiculous 4 year deals.

Extending McD was probably a mistake and I'm saying that as someone who was a McD defender in the past. Hes simply had too many misses so far.

I'd start bender at the 4 on Friday and bring warren off the bench. He can still get his fill of minutes and can get more shots on the second unit that desperately needs scoring.

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[bwgood77]

Not trading bledsoe this summer was a mistake. Signing tyson chandler was a huge **** mistake from the minute they did it. I'm fine having some vet leadership around but on cheap contracts not **** ridiculous 4 year deals.

Extending McD was probably a mistake and I'm saying that as someone who was a McD defender in the past. Hes simply had too many misses so far.

I'd start bender at the 4 on Friday and bring warren off the bench. He can still get his fill of minutes and can get more shots on the second unit that desperately needs scoring.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I agree about the lineup changes but I doubt that would happen. I've pretty much backed McD partially just because I hate turning staff over so much which is what I think caused the Suns downfall anyway.

But I was thinking about all the FO guys who Sarver had no patience with (Bryan Colangelo, David Griffin, Steve Kerr, etc) and then of course D'Antoni had the disagreement with Kerr (and of course in hindsight Kerr learned D'Antoni was right after the Porter debacle and took his newfound knowledge to GS).

I'm actually not sure if Griffin left on bad terms or not or just got the opportunity in Cleveland and before the McD extension had wondered (if they didn't part on bad terms) if Sarver might re-hire him.

But yeah, a lot of people placing blame on Watson, but who hired Watson? I mean he didn't even have any NBA assistant coach experience except as an assistant coach in the D league and what, half a season as like the 3rd or 4th assistant for Hornacek?

I liked the way the team responded to him to close out that year and I imagine it made things a little odd when all the players came and vouched for him but to not interview anyone else with so many very experienced and smart assistants out there was quite baffling.

The Lakers game will be interesting. They will be coming off a late Clippers game tonight and will have to travel after that or come over tomorrow too, so there really shouldn't be any excuses considering they are only projected to have more than like 1 win than us, we get them at home on the 2nd night of a b2b.

[Puff]

Not trading bledsoe this summer was a mistake. Signing tyson chandler was a huge **** mistake from the minute they did it. I'm fine having some vet leadership around but on cheap contracts not **** ridiculous 4 year deals.

Extending McD was probably a mistake and I'm saying that as someone who was a McD defender in the past. Hes simply had too many misses so far.

I'd start bender at the 4 on Friday and bring warren off the bench. He can still get his fill of minutes and can get more shots on the second unit that desperately needs scoring.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app

I agree about the lineup changes but I doubt that would happen. I've pretty much backed McD partially just because I hate turning staff over so much which is what I think caused the Suns downfall anyway.

But I was thinking about all the FO guys who Sarver had no patience with (Bryan Colangelo, David Griffin, Steve Kerr, etc) and then of course D'Antoni had the disagreement with Kerr (and of course in hindsight Kerr learned D'Antoni was right after the Porter debacle and took his newfound knowledge to GS).

I'm actually not sure if Griffin left on bad terms or not or just got the opportunity in Cleveland and before the McD extension had wondered (if they didn't part on bad terms) if Sarver might re-hire him.

But yeah, a lot of people placing blame on Watson, but who hired Watson? I mean he didn't even have any NBA assistant coach experience except as an assistant coach in the D league and what, half a season as like the 3rd or 4th assistant for Hornacek?

I liked the way the team responded to him to close out that year and I imagine it made things a little odd when all the players came and vouched for him but to not interview anyone else with so many very experienced and smart assistants out there was quite baffling.

The Lakers game will be interesting. They will be coming off a late Clippers game tonight and will have to travel after that or come over tomorrow too, so there really shouldn't be any excuses considering they are only projected to have more than like 1 win than us, we get them at home on the 2nd night of a b2b.

For almost 50 years my favorite team is anyone playing the Lakers.

On Saturday night I hope they blow us out of the building.

Maybe that will wake Sarver up out of his dream and bring this nightmare to an end.

Both McDonough and Watson should be out the door. If offer my services to help pack their bags.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

[King4Day]

I know people are upset but nobody should want to see big losses. not yet. We want these young guys to continue growing.
It's only one game. I expect we'll bounce back in the next one.

[WeekapaugGroove]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

I agree that it's a knee jerk reaction after one game to say fire everyone. My point about it being a mistake to extend McD this past summer is for two reasons. One I think it kind of locks them into Watson because it would seem crazy to let McD hire a 3rd coach. My other point is I look at a GM job and while I know not every trade and draft pick is going to work out at some point you need to have more hits than misses. I'm fully behind getting young players and don't mind losing but at some point those young guys you pick have to look like they can play.

Personally I would have just waited until the end of this year to figure out McD's long term status. But then again it's not like Sarver can't fire him just because he gave him that extension and it's his money so what do I care how he spends it.

[LukasBMW]

Watson goes before McDonough goes. Watson can't draw plays!

And yes, we need to trade Bledsoe. Although I'm afraid we won't get much for him unless his play picks up.

We might be lucky to get Jahil Okafor for Bledsoe.

That Brogdon for Bledsoe swap sounds pretty damn good to me right now.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Watson goes before McDonough goes. Watson can't draw plays!

And yes, we need to trade Bledsoe. Although I'm afraid we won't get much for him unless his play picks up.

We might be lucky to get Jahil Okafor for Bledsoe.

That Brogdon for Bledsoe swap sounds pretty damn good to me right now.

I don't think the league would view Bledsoe as the problem with this team. I don't think his value is in decline. I continue to believe that McD is waiting until the right offer comes along... and it may never! Given that it won't cost us anything to simply have him play out the duration of his contract, own his Bird rights and have the option of letting him leave for open cap space, we still have plenty of leverage.

If the Nuggets struggle to start the year, I could see them upping their offer just enough to get us to bite.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

I agree that it's a knee jerk reaction after one game to say fire everyone. My point about it being a mistake to extend McD this past summer is for two reasons. One I think it kind of locks them into Watson because it would seem crazy to let McD hire a 3rd coach. My other point is I look at a GM job and while I know not every trade and draft pick is going to work out at some point you need to have more hits than misses. I'm fully behind getting young players and don't mind losing but at some point those young guys you pick have to look like they can play.

Personally I would have just waited until the end of this year to figure out McD's long term status. But then again it's not like Sarver can't fire him just because he gave him that extension and it's his money so what do I care how he spends it.

I hear you. It's just that it's hard for me to identify the misses. Was JD a bad signing? Was it a mistake not to sign anyone this summer? Or to extend Alan? Or to extend TJ? To select Jackson or Reed?

Most of the missteps I see can be plausibly blamed on others or assigned a big asterisk. I half-suspect that the reason we were able to get two draft picks for Dragic was that Miami knew we were giving up the LA pick for Knight. As for that day in general, how much is Hornacek responsible for? Did he pull for Knight? Did he hate IT? Marquese is slumping and may be a bust if he doesn't turn things around (he's so young, so this is premature), but that was Watson's guy. Dragan was clearly McD's guy, and of late, Dragan is the one showing signs...

You remove trade deadline 2015, and it's hard to be mad at McD for almost anything. Perhaps I should change my sig to "McD apologist" but... even drafting Alex is starting to look pretty good in hindsight (certainly a better choice than drafting Noel or McLemore!).

[suns91fan]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

I feel we're just wasting time with McD. We should have parted ways with him immediately after that Dragic fiasco. He lucked into that 13-14 team as neither Dragic, nor Frye who seemed to mesh insanely well that season, were his acquisitions. And even then, he managed to dismantle that team in just more than 6 months. I like Bledsoe, but Dragic should have kept his 13-14 role instead of being put aside like that.

And now the drafting. We had six lottery picks in the last five years (three of which were top 5 picks) and it seems that this team is just not moving forward. Many teams (Nuggets, Jazz, Bucks etc) had less picks to work with but are far above the Suns in terms of competitiveness. If someone told me after that WCF run, that this team will have 0 playoff berths in the next decade, i would call them crazy. But this does really look very close to reality at this point. If we don't make the playoffs this year (which seemed to be almost certain even before last night), this will be the 9th longest playoff drought in NBA history. And since it likely won't stop after this season, who knows how far can we climb on that list...

It's insane to me that at some points in the past few years, we were in the same spot as teams like Rockets (along the Suns considered the worst team in the West prior to 12-13 season) and Celtics (had same expectations as Suns prior to 14-15 season), but somehow both those teams climbed up, while this team kept getting worse. We're just not rebuilding the right way. There is so much more to it than just adding young prospects season after season. I'm looking at the Morey-led Rockets and since he took the helm (he inherited post-prime Yao Ming and McGrady), that team had ZERO sub 0.500 seasons so far. That's 10 seasons in a row of winning basketball. And now they're a top 5 team in the league.

And the last thing, the coach. He is the one who hired him, he should take part of the blame as well.

All things considered, there is a lot of wrong with this franchise. No one can persuade me that these last few years are something normal. It's not and it shouldn't be.

[Damkac]

Not trading bledsoe this summer was a mistake. Signing tyson chandler was a huge **** mistake from the minute they did it. I'm fine having some vet leadership around but on cheap contracts not **** ridiculous 4 year deals.
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Agree. What was McD thinking when he gave him 4 years contract? How many players are still good when 35+ years old?

[Weemsickew14]

If i was McD I would definitely trade bledsoe this season. If Denver is biting, Bledsoe for Gary Harris sounds nice because we badly need shooting. More can be added on both sides to make the deal more enticing, but I think a Booker/Harris backcourt would be pretty scary, both players compliment eachother nicely.

[WeekapaugGroove]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

I agree that it's a knee jerk reaction after one game to say fire everyone. My point about it being a mistake to extend McD this past summer is for two reasons. One I think it kind of locks them into Watson because it would seem crazy to let McD hire a 3rd coach. My other point is I look at a GM job and while I know not every trade and draft pick is going to work out at some point you need to have more hits than misses. I'm fully behind getting young players and don't mind losing but at some point those young guys you pick have to look like they can play.

Personally I would have just waited until the end of this year to figure out McD's long term status. But then again it's not like Sarver can't fire him just because he gave him that extension and it's his money so what do I care how he spends it.

I hear you. It's just that it's hard for me to identify the misses. Was JD a bad signing? Was it a mistake not to sign anyone this summer? Or to extend Alan? Or to extend TJ? To select Jackson or Reed?

Most of the missteps I see can be plausibly blamed on others or assigned a big asterisk. I half-suspect that the reason we were able to get two draft picks for Dragic was that Miami knew we were giving up the LA pick for Knight. As for that day in general, how much is Hornacek responsible for? Did he pull for Knight? Did he hate IT? Marquese is slumping and may be a bust if he doesn't turn things around (he's so young, so this is premature), but that was Watson's guy. Dragan was clearly McD's guy, and of late, Dragan is the one showing signs...

You remove trade deadline 2015, and it's hard to be mad at McD for almost anything. Perhaps I should change my sig to "McD apologist" but... even drafting Alex is starting to look pretty good in hindsight (certainly a better choice than drafting Noel or McLemore!).

You're right that some of the "blame" is hard to properly define. We don't know how much it was Sarver pushing for the Knight trade to try to remain competitive.

To me the obvious misses are:
Both coaching hires don't look good right now. That is 100% on McD.

Not identifying that the Dragic situation would blow up in their face. I think McD had a bad feel for that kind of stuff early in his tenure.

Not identifying that Markief was going to be a complete **** after they traded his brother. They were very lucky to get the package they got for him but I still think they get more if they trade him right away that summer.

Signing Chandler. I **** hated this signing the day it happened. They not only blocked Len but also hurt themselves with future cap flexibility. All for the sake of leadership that I've yet to see and to use him as a recruiter which is just a dumb way to spend $50M.

Draft- I don't hate his selections in a vacuum but he's had enough picks where he needs more some home runs. Booker looks good but I have to admit it's getting concerning that he is still doing some of the same bad things he did as a rookie. This is probably a development issue with all the guys.... but that is McD's fault because he picked the coaches that need to develop these guys.

[bwgood77]

To say that the solution is simply to show McD the door seems lazy to me - especially if we're basing it off of one (really bad) game. What should he have done differently? IT would have been out last night, presumably. That Lakers pick would not have been of any more use last night. You can dislike the Chandler signing, but then Marquese Chriss gets those minutes.

I can't fault the man for drafting the way he's drafted. I can't fault him for prioritizing chemistry and family with his coaching selection. The team has undergone a youth movement, which is the direction I (and almost everyone here) prefer. And other than Marquese Chriss and TJ's disappearing act, I thought our effort level was pretty good (up until I went to sleep in the middle of the 3rd).

So. What should we have done differently? We are simply reacting to one really terrible game. I have failed to hear much construction in this criticism.

Done differently of everything McD has done? Or last night? I've gone over my thoughts multiple times about past moves. I think one thing that would have helped last night is to have told the team who was starting and playing together and who was coming off the bench, etc, more than 45 minutes or whatever before tip off. Give these guys your expectations leading up to opening night...don't tell Chriss, who you started most of his rookie year, that he's now coming off the bench less than an hour before the game. I mean this had to impact something, whether it be ego, chemistry, effort, etc.

We've also discussed the plays being run, and at the half one of the things that he told a reporter was they needed to make the extra pass. It might not all be that they are not being told the right things, but if they are not following instructions or are not putting in full effort, they need to be held accountable. He needs to stop comparing these guys to great players, like saying Chriss is like Draymond Green. It's obvious some of the players feel a sense of entitlement and they don't seem to be held accountable, and sometimes instead, the opposite is mentioned and they are built up.

I know TJ was coming off of injury and hadn't played in a while, so a subpar game from him is somewhat understandable, but the rest of them, I don't know. It just seemed like chaos.

If Bledsoe and Booker were really just sitting on the bench not talking to each other or anyone else during second half shootaround/warm up, that sounds like a problem. I don't know if they just didn't want to shoot, if Watson laid into them, if he told them to sit down and think about it, or what, but it only got worse from there.