RealGM

I've been on Suns message boards for... whoa. Almost two decades now. Kinda gives me away a bit. But having gone through so much with this team over the years (and I know there are others who have gone through so much more!), I have certain perspectives on the way I want the team to be managed, certain attitudes about time frame, player development, play style... heck, jerseys, court colors, character and personality, front office relations... you name it! I have opinions about the team. And you do too, and that's why you're here.

I want to get more information about one basic breakdown. We all watch basketball, and so none of us can help but get a little jealous of that Raptors fan who at least has a prayer, that Rockets fan who has only had to experience brief rebuilds and some sustained mediocrity.

People refer to the Barkley era and to the Nash era frequently, because they were both fun. The end of the Nash era and the end of the Barkley era were similar, but the good times with Barkley was really only very brief. Watching Barkley back down for 14 seconds repeatedly there at the end, when we weren't really contenders... that was bleak. KJ was always injured. It was clearly the end. But the Suns had the Harden to their Rockets shortly after... in fact, just months later, in fact... and his name was Jason Kidd.

Jason was our starting point guard and the future and face of the franchise for several years. I went to two of his basketball camps as a kid. We traded for the 24YO Kidd at the beginning of the 96-97 season and went from 0-13 at the start of the season to giving the #1 seed a true playoff challenge. We added Cliff Robinson, who was a killer for us for several seasons, Rex Chapman scored a ton of points, and we traded Wes Person for Antonio McDyess. George McCloud and Ced Ceballos came and went. We traded a young, skinny backup PG named Steve Nash for a pick that turned into Shawn Marion a year later. Then we had the lockout. When it concluded, we lost McDyess in an epic free agent heist, and we recovered by signing Gugliotta and L** L******. Tony Delk scored 50 points in a game. Cliff Robinson was our best player often in those days. We added Rodney Rogers, who would win 6MOY and later be traded for Joe Johnson. We traded for the 28-YO former 1st-Team All-NBA guard Penny Hardaway to form Backcourt 2000. Penny had an epic run in the 2000 NBA playoffs, who along with KJ(!) and blonde Jason Kidd, beat a Tim Duncan-less Spurs and played a good series against the Los Angeles Lakers in the second round. That was the peak of the Jason Kidd era, it turned out. Penny played on a bum knee in those playoffs. Googs declined fairly rapidly (before his incident with supplements on the bus) and simply was never what we needed him to be - which was McDyess. Of course, McDyess would have a catastrophic knee injury and never truly reach his potential, just the year after he left us.

A lot of things happened during that time. But you couldn't help but be kind of depressed about the squad, year after year. When we finally were able to ditch L** L****** in the biggest-ever NBA trade, we ended up trotting out a pretty good team with Chris Dudley at center and Mario Elie starting for the always-recovering Penny Hardaway. We weren't going to win a championship no matter what we did, not with that behemoth in LA and that stacked squad in Portland, not to mention the Jazz, the Spurs... there was no hope. And there wasn't even really a plausible path whereby we could win a championship for the foreseeable future.

That all changed when we drafted Amare Stoudemire. Stoudemire never played with Kidd. Kidd was traded for Marbury after Kidd threw french fies at his wife and her calling the police and filing domestic abuse charges. We traded that whole team away in short order - Uncle Spliffy for basically nothing. Joe Johnson was behind Penny and, frankly, not showing a ton. We drafted Barbosa to back up Marbury. Marion was killing it for us at the 3 and for a year we had Al McCoy calling Marbury and Marion the M&M brothers. We drafted Amare. Then we traded Penny and Googs in that godsend of a trade with NYK, in which we, quite ironically, received free-agent-to-be Antonio McDyess, who played out the remainder of his season in Phoenix and sort of closed a loop on that whole era. The next year we signed Steve Nash, and as soon as the 04-05 team hit the court in their very first game against Atlanta, we knew there was hope again.

Having been through all of that, I don't want to go back. THE MALAISE. From 1995 to 2004, there was no hope. We made the playoffs year after year, but there was no hope. Not really. Every game was a prelude to getting bounced in the playoffs. For the most part, it wasn't great.

And in those days, everyone on the message boards was in agreement. The goal is a championship. The fourth seed sucks. The fifth seed sucks. The sixth and seventh and eighth seeds really suck. The goal is a championship. For many, the story went back further, to the KJ-Chambers era, to Walter Davis and teams before that that I don't know much about. I know about the Cinderella Suns and Paul Westphal and Alvan Adams and the Hawk, but they weren't my guys. My guys started with the 92-93 Suns, the team that almost won it all. And in a sense, I've been waiting for that ring ever since.

I know all too well what it's like to have just enough talent to guarantee failure. That's why I've been committed to the rebuild with this squad. No point to ending the suffering prematurely if suffering is what it takes. Does suffering guarantee success? No. But it does provide for an endless fountain of hope. And frankly, I enjoyed last season more than I enjoyed those perennial trips to playoff doom. Hope means the ring is closer than it appears from the standings. And when you don't have it, no matter how close it seems, you know it's just an illusion.

Nice text. Now, the only question I saw was if suffering guarantees success. To that the answer is no.

So you became a Suns fan because of Barkley? I do agree, that when you watch a contender for a number of years (we were from 90-95 and 05-10) the other years are tough. The years with Kidd don't leave me with many memories. We really were not able to build that 05-10 contender until we built around the draft picks (Marion, Amare) and traded a couple of vets for another rookie lottery pick (JJ). That was our core. I think we are building that young core now and will add another pick. If we still had the Lakers pick I think we'd be set.

I don't necessarily think all of our guys will pan out, but we should have enough with another couple 1st rounders next year to allow for a bust or two. With the Lakers pick it would have given us more insurance.

There has never been a team as good as Golden State, so taking the slow build, solid foundation approach looking at building a culture, through the draft, and looking at the long term is good. It should be exciting to watch the young guys grow and hopefully some day the turn us into a contender. We have been in the running for free agents for awhile, and involved in trade talks, but it doesn't make sense now, given the make up of the west. You don't deplete your assets/talent to desperately try to get into the playoffs when the core of your team is early 20s. We already tried that with the Brandon Knight trade...and signing Chandler and hoping to sign Aldridge.

I'm excited for the season and am glad we have kept our young core intact. One or two players may disappoint, but I think several will shine, and hopefully all of them.

bwgood77 wrote:

Spoiler:

cosmofizzo wrote:I've been on Suns message boards for... whoa. Almost two decades now. Kinda gives me away a bit. But having gone through so much with this team over the years (and I know there are others who have gone through so much more!), I have certain perspectives on the way I want the team to be managed, certain attitudes about time frame, player development, play style... heck, jerseys, court colors, character and personality, front office relations... you name it! I have opinions about the team. And you do too, and that's why you're here.

I want to get more information about one basic breakdown. We all watch basketball, and so none of us can help but get a little jealous of that Raptors fan who at least has a prayer, that Rockets fan who has only had to experience brief rebuilds and some sustained mediocrity.

People refer to the Barkley era and to the Nash era frequently, because they were both fun. The end of the Nash era and the end of the Barkley era were similar, but the good times with Barkley was really only very brief. Watching Barkley back down for 14 seconds repeatedly there at the end, when we weren't really contenders... that was bleak. KJ was always injured. It was clearly the end. But the Suns had the Harden to their Rockets shortly after... in fact, just months later, in fact... and his name was Jason Kidd.

Jason was our starting point guard and the future and face of the franchise for several years. I went to two of his basketball camps as a kid. We traded for the 24YO Kidd at the beginning of the 96-97 season and went from 0-13 at the start of the season to giving the #1 seed a true playoff challenge. We added Cliff Robinson, who was a killer for us for several seasons, Rex Chapman scored a ton of points, and we traded Wes Person for Antonio McDyess. George McCloud and Ced Ceballos came and went. We traded a young, skinny backup PG named Steve Nash for a pick that turned into Shawn Marion a year later. Then we had the lockout. When it concluded, we lost McDyess in an epic free agent heist, and we recovered by signing Gugliotta and L** L******. Tony Delk scored 50 points in a game. Cliff Robinson was our best player often in those days. We added Rodney Rogers, who would win 6MOY and later be traded for Joe Johnson. We traded for the 28-YO former 1st-Team All-NBA guard Penny Hardaway to form Backcourt 2000. Penny had an epic run in the 2000 NBA playoffs, who along with KJ(!) and blonde Jason Kidd, beat a Tim Duncan-less Spurs and played a good series against the Los Angeles Lakers in the second round. That was the peak of the Jason Kidd era, it turned out. Penny played on a bum knee in those playoffs. Googs declined fairly rapidly (before his incident with supplements on the bus) and simply was never what we needed him to be - which was McDyess. Of course, McDyess would have a catastrophic knee injury and never truly reach his potential, just the year after he left us.

A lot of things happened during that time. But you couldn't help but be kind of depressed about the squad, year after year. When we finally were able to ditch L** L****** in the biggest-ever NBA trade, we ended up trotting out a pretty good team with Chris Dudley at center and Mario Elie starting for the always-recovering Penny Hardaway. We weren't going to win a championship no matter what we did, not with that behemoth in LA and that stacked squad in Portland, not to mention the Jazz, the Spurs... there was no hope. And there wasn't even really a plausible path whereby we could win a championship for the foreseeable future.

That all changed when we drafted Amare Stoudemire. Stoudemire never played with Kidd. Kidd was traded for Marbury after Kidd threw french fies at his wife and her calling the police and filing domestic abuse charges. We traded that whole team away in short order - Uncle Spliffy for basically nothing. Joe Johnson was behind Penny and, frankly, not showing a ton. We drafted Barbosa to back up Marbury. Marion was killing it for us at the 3 and for a year we had Al McCoy calling Marbury and Marion the M&M brothers. We drafted Amare. Then we traded Penny and Googs in that godsend of a trade with NYK, in which we, quite ironically, received free-agent-to-be Antonio McDyess, who played out the remainder of his season in Phoenix and sort of closed a loop on that whole era. The next year we signed Steve Nash, and as soon as the 04-05 team hit the court in their very first game against Atlanta, we knew there was hope again.

Having been through all of that, I don't want to go back. THE MALAISE. From 1995 to 2004, there was no hope. We made the playoffs year after year, but there was no hope. Not really. Every game was a prelude to getting bounced in the playoffs. For the most part, it wasn't great.

And in those days, everyone on the message boards was in agreement. The goal is a championship. The fourth seed sucks. The fifth seed sucks. The sixth and seventh and eighth seeds really suck. The goal is a championship. For many, the story went back further, to the KJ-Chambers era, to Walter Davis and teams before that that I don't know much about. I know about the Cinderella Suns and Paul Westphal and Alvan Adams and the Hawk, but they weren't my guys. My guys started with the 92-93 Suns, the team that almost won it all. And in a sense, I've been waiting for that ring ever since.

I know all too well what it's like to have just enough talent to guarantee failure. That's why I've been committed to the rebuild with this squad. No point to ending the suffering prematurely if suffering is what it takes. Does suffering guarantee success? No. But it does provide for an endless fountain of hope. And frankly, I enjoyed last season more than I enjoyed those perennial trips to playoff doom. Hope means the ring is closer than it appears from the standings. And when you don't have it, no matter how close it seems, you know it's just an illusion.

So you became a Suns fan because of Barkley?

Meh. I was 6 when we moved to Phoenix in 1991. I remember flipping through the channels in the early 1992 season and ending on a fast break punctuated by a Majerle layup. I watched the rest of that game. The kids in my second grade class played basketball, and I soon came to love the sport. My favorite player in those early years was Majerle. I'm sure the near-championship had a lot to do with my young and, ultimately, enduring fandom. So in a sense, the answer to your question is yes. But I always liked Majerle and KJ more than Sir Charles.

bwgood77 wrote:I do agree, that when you watch a contender for a number of years (we were from 90-95 and 05-10) the other years are tough. The years with Kidd don't leave me with many memories. We really were not able to build that 05-10 contender until we built around the draft picks (Marion, Amare) and traded a couple of vets for another rookie lottery pick (JJ). That was our core. I think we are building that young core now and will add another pick. If we still had the Lakers pick I think we'd be set.

I don't necessarily think all of our guys will pan out, but we should have enough with another couple 1st rounders next year to allow for a bust or two. With the Lakers pick it would have given us more insurance.

There has never been a team as good as Golden State, so taking the slow build, solid foundation approach looking at building a culture, through the draft, and looking at the long term is good. It should be exciting to watch the young guys grow and hopefully some day the turn us into a contender. We have been in the running for free agents for awhile, and involved in trade talks, but it doesn't make sense now, given the make up of the west. You don't deplete your assets/talent to desperately try to get into the playoffs when the core of your team is early 20s. We already tried that with the Brandon Knight trade...and signing Chandler and hoping to sign Aldridge.

I'm excited for the season and am glad we have kept our young core intact. One or two players may disappoint, but I think several will shine, and hopefully all of them.

I agree with the gist of your response. We're generally on the same page in terms of the long-term vision for this franchise. I have a ton of memories of the Kidd era, though. Man, if McDyess had stayed, how different things would have been. But then we never would have had the joy of watching young Amare. The '04-'05 season was my very favorite as a Suns fan. People tend to forget how dark it sometimes must be before the Sun can rise. That's where we are today, with Booker and JJ and a great young supporting cast as well as a cache of assets. I'm ecstatic about where this team is - and I would have been less excited had we trade for Irving.

Cheers b'dubs. And thanks, bthew, for everything you do around here.

I've been watching the Suns since the Majerle draft. Was a big fan the year before Barkley and obsessed once we got Barkley(All-time favorite player, had a HUGE collection of everything related to him growing up. Comic books, books, hundreds of cards, cups, bobbleheads, posters, cardboard cutouts, school folders, everything). I've watched them religiously up until the last few years, which was only because I don't have cable anymore so it's been a bit more difficult to watch the games.

I agree that the ups and downs from contender to bottom feeder can be difficult, but at the same time I think that's what makes being a fan so great. Makes you feel like you are experiencing the struggle and rewards along with the team. The Barkley era was short lived, but incredible. Both the Barkley and Nash eras had us as big time contenders butwe just had a bit of bad luck. A break here or there and we'd have a ring or two and potentially a very different last 10-20 years.

Both of those eras were built on drafting, a couple smart consolidating trades and then key free agents. We drafted Marion(after trading for the pick), drafted Amare, traded for JJ, then signed Nash and Q. So I think that gives us a nice outline to try to compare to our current roster. We are trying to get that young core together, then trade/sign the key members to bring the team together. I think Booker, JJ, Chriss, Bender make up the nucleus(though Chriss/Bender are large question marks for me). And once we see what we have, we can then add the additional pieces to bring it all together. It's like making a meal, and adding that last pinch of salt that brings out all the goodness of the ingredients(cooking reference #1).

I see zero reason or incentive to try to compete right now. Golden State is on another level and even teams like Spurs, Rockets, Cavs and possibly Celtics are pretty out of reach for us I think realistically. So take it low and slow, like cooking a roast(cooking reference #2). Bring our youth along, aim for good picks, either our own or trading for them. Take advantage when opportunities present themselves. And most importantly be patient with this roster. That goes to fans, coaches, front office and ownership. Let everything come together and blend together, like a good stew(aaaaaand cooking reference #3).

I'd rather earn the good times then just have them handed to me because we have deep pockets.