Preseason Game #3 : Utah Jazz @ Phoenix Suns

[kennydorglas]

18-pt difference
sounds like a win.

[darealjuice]

It's the lack of options. We have a bunch of young players who need direction and set plays they can go to. As mentioned, they run through their first soft pick and when that fails, it ends up with an ISO play. Where's the off-ball movement? Where's the ball movement? Where's the 2nd and 3rd screen? ISO is fine as a final option but often we see Booker or Bledsoe going to ISO with more half the shot clock left. If we have a team of experienced players and they still make boneheaded plays, then yeah, it's a player issue. But because our guys are young, our failure to run plays well rest heavily on training, coaching and discipline. I don't think our guys lack talent or athleticism so it has to be our coaches responsbility to make sure they are using these attributes the right way. But this is only one side of the court.

On the other end, I agree with you. We have very average iso defense and worse team defense.

Regarding the coaching change, I have to disagree. I don't think someone will come in and turn this team into a well-oiled machine immediately but all we've seen since Watson has taken over is Devin Booker becoming a scoring machine which one could argue he would've developed into regardless of coaching. We've seen TJ's defense improve marginally, we've seen Len plateau and we've seen Chriss playing more minutes than he should have. I just don't know how much accountability there is on this team.

I'm not taking blame away from our players because ultimately, they are the ones who are on the court but it's hard to put more blame on a bunch of inexperienced, developing players when the coaching staff is suppose to help them become better players and a better team and I haven't seen much of that outside of Warren and Booker individually becoming better.

I'd argue the opposite. You can't expect players who've had very little training and coaching relative to their competition to be disciplined on offense against NBA defenses. Our players don't lack talent or athleticism, but they lack polish, especially Chriss and Bender. In 3 preseason games Jackson looks like a much more refined basketball player than either of them and they've had a year in the NBA. Chriss still can't figure out defensive rotations at game speed, something I guarantee they drill every day. You'll definitely see improvement from a better coach with a better defensive scheme, but the mental lapses are going to happen.

I don't disagree that we haven't seen a lot of result from Watson. Booker is a good notch in his belt, TJ has definitely improved on defense but a lot of people have seen his emergence coming, and Len was always mediocre so I'm not going to blame Watson for him still being mediocre. Jury's still out for Bender and Chriss right now for me; we haven't seen a real NBA game, they're still some of the youngest players in the league, and I do think Chriss showed plenty of improvement through last season despite still having a long way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if we let Watson ride out this 3 year contract before looking into a new option if we don't see improvement in record.

[Kerrsed]

i didn't say it was a bad thing. i just said what it was. chill out, dawg.

Well usually when some one states that a player "Hasnt seen a shot that he didnt like" they are insinuating that the player is chucking up a bunch of bad shots. Actually im pretty damn sure thats where that saying originated from. And then putting it on him because he is a "Shoot first PG" (Which in itself has a negative perception around here) is insinuating that he is not just shooting bad shots, but doing it at the team expense.

This team needs scorers. That should have be prevalent these past 3 games. James does what he does and does it great. How many other "Shoot first PG's" that "Never seen a shot they didnt like" have such a great FG%? Hell, any Guard shooting 57% like he did tonight would be applauded. The kid shot 80% against Portland. I wouldnt call that "Never seeing a shot he didnt like", i would call that "Only shooting effective high percentage shots". The kid is shooting 68% in the 2 games he's played. Like for real, that is OUTSTANDING! Thats better than most (If not all) Guards AND Forwards! Thats better than most C's in the league too.

[bigfoot]

good old Mike James. never saw a shot he didn't like

3-5 shooting ... better than either Bledsoe, Booker, Ulis or Daniels who are all shooting poorly.

you'd have to agree he's a shoot first point guard, yes?

For the preseason

James 9-12 or .750
Daniels 12-24 or .500
Bledsoe 6-18 or .333
Booker 13-36 or .361
Ulis 6-22 or .273

I really wouldn't mind seeing more shooting from James and Daniels if those are the numbers we are going to get from those Kentucky dudes.

[8on]

i didn't say it was a bad thing. i just said what it was. chill out, dawg.

Well usually when some one states that a player "Hasnt seen a shot that he didnt like" they are insinuating that the player is chucking up a bunch of bad shots. Actually im pretty damn sure thats where that saying originated from. And then putting it on him because he is a "Shoot first PG" (Which in itself has a negative perception around here) is insinuating that he is not just shooting bad shots, but doing it at the team expense.

This team needs scorers. That should have be prevalent these past 3 games. James does what he does and does it great. How many other "Shoot first PG's" that "Never seen a shot they didnt like" have such a great FG%? Hell, any Guard shooting 57% like he did tonight would be applauded. The kid shot 80% against Portland. I wouldnt call that "Never seeing a shot he didnt like", i would call that "Only shooting effective high percentage shots". The kid is shooting 68% in the 2 games he's played. Like for real, that is OUTSTANDING! Thats better than most (If not all) Guards AND Forwards! Thats better than most C's in the league too.

i don't mind high percentage shots that go in. i don't care how much passing occurs if it goes in, but......you were the one in a previous post that said "where's the ball movement?" i tend to agree with you. i think we could use more ball movement, in theory.

[Mr Puddles]

Anyone remember in the draft how JJ's biggest knocks were his shooting and having no 3 point shot?

He was supposed to be a great playmaker and he has 8 turnovers.

Regardless, all this is just preseason.

I'm not too concerned about his turnovers. A lot of them are from being overaggressive and adjusting to the pace of the game in the NBA. Josh Jackson is a high energy guy, there's bound to be a learning curve where he's able to harness his energy and channel it into productive hustle plays rather than reckless plays and wild passes. The game will slow down for him at one point, no doubt.

In terms of his shot, right now it has a high 'TJ Warren 40% 3fg' feel to it - I'm definitely more concerned about his outside shot still than playmaking / turnovers. Fingers crossed, of course, his pre-season shooting carries over into the regular season.

[bigfoot]

i didn't say it was a bad thing. i just said what it was. chill out, dawg.

Well usually when some one states that a player "Hasnt seen a shot that he didnt like" they are insinuating that the player is chucking up a bunch of bad shots. Actually im pretty damn sure thats where that saying originated from. And then putting it on him because he is a "Shoot first PG" (Which in itself has a negative perception around here) is insinuating that he is not just shooting bad shots, but doing it at the team expense.

This team needs scorers. That should have be prevalent these past 3 games. James does what he does and does it great. How many other "Shoot first PG's" that "Never seen a shot they didnt like" have such a great FG%? Hell, any Guard shooting 57% like he did tonight would be applauded. The kid shot 80% against Portland. I wouldnt call that "Never seeing a shot he didnt like", i would call that "Only shooting effective high percentage shots". The kid is shooting 68% in the 2 games he's played. Like for real, that is OUTSTANDING! Thats better than most (If not all) Guards AND Forwards! Thats better than most C's in the league too.

i don't mind high percentage shots that go in. i don't care how much passing occurs if it goes in, but......you were the one in a previous post that said "where's the ball movement?" i tend to agree with you. i think we could use more ball movement, in theory.

To me the ball movement was non-stop three man weave with most passes being a hand off. The Jazz just kept playing it well and pushed the Suns guards and Jackson out to the half court line. Hope this is not our offense for the whole season.

[lilfishi22]

I'd argue the opposite. You can't expect players who've had very little training and coaching relative to their competition to be disciplined on offense against NBA defenses. Our players don't lack talent or athleticism, but they lack polish, especially Chriss and Bender. In 3 preseason games Jackson looks like a much more refined basketball player than either of them and they've had a year in the NBA. Chriss still can't figure out defensive rotations at game speed, something I guarantee they drill every day. You'll definitely see improvement from a better coach with a better defensive scheme, but the mental lapses are going to happen.

I don't disagree that we haven't seen a lot of result from Watson. Booker is a good notch in his belt, TJ has definitely improved on defense but a lot of people have seen his emergence coming, and Len was always mediocre so I'm not going to blame Watson for him still being mediocre. Jury's still out for Bender and Chriss right now for me; we haven't seen a real NBA game, they're still some of the youngest players in the league, and I do think Chriss showed plenty of improvement through last season despite still having a long way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if we let Watson ride out this 3 year contract before looking into a new option if we don't see improvement in record.

My view is that when you have a bunch of players who are young and inexperienced compared to the majority of competition, you can't just let them run around on their own because all they'll do is rack up TO's, fouls, bad shots and worse, pick up bad habits. As we've both agreed, our guys don't lack talent or athleticism and I certainly agree that there will always be mental lapses (even superstars have them) even with a Popovic level coach. We're a team of bad TO's, bad fouls and bad shots right now. Outside of the first 10 seconds of the shot clock where we clearly have weak execution of simple plays, we play like a chicken with its head cut off. I'm not asking for a beautiful orchestrated symphony like a Nash led offense but play with some discipline, direction and focus FFS. A good coaching staff will at least have two more plays they've drilled into their players so the players can pull them out of their pocket when the 1st or 2nd plays doesn't execute as planned. ISO is always an option but it should be the final option. Right now we're playing like going to ISO is a solid and dependable plan B. I also have to disagree with you on Booker being a notch on Watson's belt. All Watson's really done is given Booker the green light to shoot and made him the focus of our offense. I don't think it take much coaching chops to recognise this.

This lack of results is fine because ultimately we're still a very young team that plays against experienced players but what I want to see is improvement in the way our game is run and in the way young guys fix up small mistakes before they turn into habits. As I said before, I've seen individual improvement, but as a team....uhhhh. A lot of that rests on shoulders of our coaching staff.

We might just have to agree to disagree.

[Capn'O]

You know your team is bad when you acquire a guy in a salary dump and he is your best shooter.

Last year we had a bit of a "bad" rivalry with the Magic. I wonder if Knicks/Suns can do it this year...

Ok - here's a first shot: Michael Beasley might have been our best player tonight

[Mulhollanddrive]

Alex Len deserves to start opening night and we can move to small ball when Jackson subs in.

Last year assisted 3 point attempts per game - Devin Booker 3, Klay Thompson 7.

Whenever I look at the box score I wish he took more 3s but he's not getting much help.

[bwgood77]

You know your team is bad when you acquire a guy in a salary dump and he is your best shooter.

Last year we had a bit of a "bad" rivalry with the Magic. I wonder if Knicks/Suns can do it this year...

Ok - here's a first shot: Michael Beasley might have been our best player tonight

Did he just edge out Damyean Dotson? I remember when Beasley was our major free agent signing, in our exciting summer we also drafted Kendall Marshall in the lottery. Such great memories these last 7 years as a Sun fan.

You'll be happy to know Len was once again our best player, though I'm sure you noticed. Of course he is the first guy we drafted when we began our full rebuild but we decided not to give him more than the qualifying offer so if he plays well this year he'll probably leave to go elsewhere.

[thamadkant]

Josh Jackson developing that 3pt shot.... great!


the TOs are expected... although maybe not 7+.

But thats fine, he is a rookie. TOs can be eliminated or reduced with a better understanding of defensive structure of the other team and a BETTER offensive system... even Draymond Green would have 7+ TOs if he played in a chaotic system with no identity.

[Capn'O]

You know your team is bad when you acquire a guy in a salary dump and he is your best shooter.

Last year we had a bit of a "bad" rivalry with the Magic. I wonder if Knicks/Suns can do it this year...

Ok - here's a first shot: Michael Beasley might have been our best player tonight

Did he just edge out Damyean Dotson? I remember when Beasley was our major free agent signing, in our exciting summer we also drafted Kendall Marshall in the lottery. Such great memories these last 7 years as a Sun fan.

You'll be happy to know Len was once again our best player, though I'm sure you noticed. Of course he is the first guy we drafted when we began our full rebuild but we decided not to give him more than the qualifying offer so if he plays well this year he'll probably leave to go elsewhere.

Dotson has been nice. He's like the generic starting wing you might play against in a video game or something. Which is great for a second rounder. Beas was dynamic. KP and Frank didn't play.

I'm doubly invested in your fortunes because Josh Jackson was my favorite prospect in this year's draft. He offers a potential total package from the forward positions that's so intriguing. Defense and passing upside to maybe end up a modern day Pippen, but a lot of polish needed to get there. He ended up too rich for my blood in the game we're playing though.

[bwgood77]

Last year we had a bit of a "bad" rivalry with the Magic. I wonder if Knicks/Suns can do it this year...

Ok - here's a first shot: Michael Beasley might have been our best player tonight

Did he just edge out Damyean Dotson? I remember when Beasley was our major free agent signing, in our exciting summer we also drafted Kendall Marshall in the lottery. Such great memories these last 7 years as a Sun fan.

You'll be happy to know Len was once again our best player, though I'm sure you noticed. Of course he is the first guy we drafted when we began our full rebuild but we decided not to give him more than the qualifying offer so if he plays well this year he'll probably leave to go elsewhere.

Dotson has been nice. He's like the generic starting wing you might play against in a video game or something. Which is great for a second rounder. Beas was dynamic. KP and Frank didn't play.

I'm doubly invested in your fortunes because Josh Jackson was my favorite prospect in this year's draft. He offers a potential total package from the forward positions that's so intriguing. Defense and passing upside to maybe end up a modern day Pippen, but a lot of polish needed to get there. He ended up too rich for my blood in the game we're playing though.

Looks like you have Isaac though, which I think will be great long term. I liked both him and Jackson in the draft. I was fine with either. I imagine he was much cheaper in your game too. Isaac is looking good. Looks a lot more immediately nba ready than I thought he would be.

[Capn'O]

Did he just edge out Damyean Dotson? I remember when Beasley was our major free agent signing, in our exciting summer we also drafted Kendall Marshall in the lottery. Such great memories these last 7 years as a Sun fan.

You'll be happy to know Len was once again our best player, though I'm sure you noticed. Of course he is the first guy we drafted when we began our full rebuild but we decided not to give him more than the qualifying offer so if he plays well this year he'll probably leave to go elsewhere.

Dotson has been nice. He's like the generic starting wing you might play against in a video game or something. Which is great for a second rounder. Beas was dynamic. KP and Frank didn't play.

I'm doubly invested in your fortunes because Josh Jackson was my favorite prospect in this year's draft. He offers a potential total package from the forward positions that's so intriguing. Defense and passing upside to maybe end up a modern day Pippen, but a lot of polish needed to get there. He ended up too rich for my blood in the game we're playing though.

Looks like you have Isaac though, which I think will be great long term. I liked both him and Jackson in the draft. I was fine with either. I imagine he was much cheaper in your game too. Isaac is looking good. Looks a lot more immediately nba ready than I thought he would be.

Yeah - our board was down on him, probably because he shares a lot of skills with Porzingis (yes, he was MUCH cheaper than other top rookies ) but the more I look into him the more I like. What stands out to me in the preseason highlights is how smart he is and quick to find seams and space on offense and close them on defense. Jackson is more of a natural playmaker (hence why we were interested) and Isaac a finisher.

[bwgood77]

Dotson has been nice. He's like the generic starting wing you might play against in a video game or something. Which is great for a second rounder. Beas was dynamic. KP and Frank didn't play.

I'm doubly invested in your fortunes because Josh Jackson was my favorite prospect in this year's draft. He offers a potential total package from the forward positions that's so intriguing. Defense and passing upside to maybe end up a modern day Pippen, but a lot of polish needed to get there. He ended up too rich for my blood in the game we're playing though.

Looks like you have Isaac though, which I think will be great long term. I liked both him and Jackson in the draft. I was fine with either. I imagine he was much cheaper in your game too. Isaac is looking good. Looks a lot more immediately nba ready than I thought he would be.

Yeah - our board was down on him, probably because he shares a lot of skills with Porzingis (yes, he was MUCH cheaper than other top rookies ) but the more I look into him the more I like. What stands out to me in the preseason highlights is how smart he is and quick to find seams and space on offense and close them on defense. Jackson is more of a natural playmaker (hence why we were interested) and Isaac a finisher.

He's been the best on the defensive end too. Vogel says he is ready to play nba level defense right now, and is also coming up with a fair amount of rebounds, blocks and steals and also hit a 3 the other night. In fantasy basketball, he'll probably be pretty valuable pretty quickly filling up the stat sheet, though it's still early and still the preseason so I guess it's premature, but of course looking good isn't a bad thing.

Bender was disappointing tonight with his passiveness. It's one of my least favorite games of his. He's been fairly passive in the past but it looked even worse to me tonight. The weird thing is he does a lot of the little things well, and rarely turned it over until tonight, and almost always has a + on the +/- even when the rest of our team has big minuses, but if he'd be more aggressive I think it would make a big difference. Hopefully that happens, but it may take a while like it did with other young guys coming in the league, like Jermaine O'Neal at 18...took hi 4 years of not doing much until he became a six time all star. The bad thing is, teams are usually not patient that long. He had to switch teams and get more minutes for that to happen...and of course had Carlisle as as coach.

I wish Phx could find a coach like that. I'd take a Carlisle or Pop assistant....or a Quin Snyder, Brad Stevens or Spoelstra assistant.

[Kerrsed]

I wish Phx could find a coach like that. I'd take a Carlisle or Pop assistant....or a Quin Snyder, Brad Stevens or Spoelstra assistant.

One name i mentioned earlier was..... Ettore Messina.

As head coach:

4× EuroLeague champion (1998, 2001, 2006, 2008)
FIBA Cup Winners' Cup champion (1990)
2× EuroLeague Coach of the Year (2006, 2008)
4× Italian League champion (1993, 1998, 2001, 2003)
7× Italian Cup winner (1990, 1999, 2001–2005)
3× Italian League Best Coach (1998, 2001, 2005)
5× Russian League champion (2006–2009, 2013)
2× Russian Cup winner (2006–2007)
4× Russian League Coach of the Year (2006–2009)
2× VTB United League champion (2013, 2014)
50 Greatest EuroLeague Contributors (2008)
Italian Hall of Fame (2008)

Everything that i have read has said that he deserves to be a head coach and even though he would be considered a "Rookie Head Coach" in the NBA, it really doesnt apply to him due to all the experience he has winning in the top Euro and Russian leagues.

Spurs assistant Ettore Messina would 'be honored' to have NBA head coaching gig

Here is a great article about him ------ Click Here!

[Saberestar]

Where I can watch the full game?

It is not available at http://nbahd.net

[Revived]

I wish Phx could find a coach like that. I'd take a Carlisle or Pop assistant....or a Quin Snyder, Brad Stevens or Spoelstra assistant.

Jay Larrañaga all the way for that one.

Messina, like Kerrsed mentioned, is another one that would be really good.

[Saberestar]

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