Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I will say for as negative as I am on McD I thought he was a good hire from a profile standpoint. A young guy from a good system in Boston. I was happy with the hire but I just take the honest view that it hasn't worked out.
Revived wrote:The Suns could end up doing what the Lakers did and maybe a franchise great as President of Basketball Ops for the branding aspect and then hire actually qualified for the GM job.
Say, hire Steve Nash or Grant Hill as President of Basketball Operations in the Magic Johnson role and then hire someone like Bill Duffy (prominent agent & basketball mind who was also Nash’s agent) as General Manager in the Rob Pelinka role.
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Puff wrote:It's not even about the coaching it is about the end result of all his actions.
It's the crap that he said basically on the first day on the job. He was all about building assets. Well he has done a lousy job in accomplishing that goal and he has had 5 years to build those assets.
We cannot make any legitimate trades because we have no assets to make a deal, that is unless you want to trade Devin Booker or a top 5 draft pick.
Everyone, well it seems like everyone gets a boner when Ryan acquires draft choices. They continue to pimp the timeline as the reason. You need to make great picks or at least some good picks along the way to make the timeline work.
His drafts have been worse than his coaching picks. I feel sorry for the coaches, even Earl Watson. They just have not had much to work with.
2013 -
# 5 - Alex Len - Bust
#30 - Nemanja Nedovic - Not on Team
# 57 - Alex Oriankhi - Not on Team
2014 -
#14 - TJ Warren - Schools out but one of his better picks - limited in several areas
#18 - Tyler Ennis - Not on Team
#28 - Bogdan Bogdanovic - Not on Team
# 50 - Alec Brown - Not on Team
2015 -
#13 - Devin Booker - Solid Pick budding All Star
#44 - Andrew Harrison - Not On Team
2016 -
#4 - Dragan Bender - Schools out but could be bust - Can't have busts at #4
#8 - Chriss - See Bender - Can't have busts at # 8 - I really have a hard time watching this clown.
#34 - Tyler Ulis - Too short to ever be a factor in the NBA - lauded as a great pick - what a joke.
2017 -
#4 - Josh Jackson - Who knows at this point - Could be a bust Could be an all star - Can't have bust at #4
#32 - Davon Reed - Everyone wets their pants when they hear his name - I say he will not be on the team in the future - maybe as soon as next year
#54 - Alec Peters - Deserves to be in the G League
That is 14 draft picks - At this writing, only two are solid players going forward
In Addition:
Name one free agent he has signed that has made a difference on this team - Don't try to peddle off Chandler and Dudley. They were both overpaid and most wet their pants when we signed them. Should not have signed either of them. How could we possibly be worse without them?
Name one smart contract extension he has made to any player - Williams does not count, he has yet to play on his new potentially reasonable contract. Warren really too early to tell. It does look good. How about the contracts he gave to Bledsoe and Knight, how did those work out?
I remain, the blame should not be on the players or coaches for our pathetic team. It belongs squarely in the hands of Robert Sarver/Ryan McDonough.
I really cannot understand why McDonough gets any support from any Suns fan.
The Timeline is just a bunch of crap.
We are the laughing stock of the entire NBA. I do not know how anyone can say that our future is bright.
Who is to blame?
What is the justification for continuing to give Ryan McDonough the power to screw up another draft and make another poor coaching decision?
Oh, I almost forgot "The Timeline"
Scutt wrote:Spoiler:
I do not even know where to begin with this post. Up until these couple of Bookerless blowouts, I was just thinking how much more competitive and enjoyable the Suns are to watch as a team under Triano. This team is young and is going to lose a lot of games, but there is plenty to look forward to. I wish Suns fans would keep in mind that is organization has only truly committed to rebuilding for the last couple of years. Rebuilding teams do not give out a massive contract to Tyson Chandler, in the hopes of luring Aldridge. McD has not been perfect, and he has been pretty bad with player relationships, but the moves for Knight and Chandler have Sarvers desire to compete written all over them.
We have what looks like a franchise player in Devin Booker, with Josh Jackson and Bender both improving. Bender at the very least, will be a good rotational player, just based on the fact that he is a 7'1 player who can defend multiple positions and hit the 3. Jackson, plays with a never ending motor, has improved by leaps and bounds since the start of the season and displays a crazy amount of confidence. Those 3 have very bright futures, not to mention we are going to hopefully get another really talented guy in this draft to add to that core.
You say the Suns have no assets for a trade? Tj Warren averages almost 20 points a game and is locked up to a good long term deal. With Josh Jackson on the rise, Warren is the definition of an asset. Though I don't want to see him traded because if he ever learns to shoot the 3, he will be insane on offense.
Why are you listing 2nd picks as evidence of McD being a bad drafter? Do you know what the odds of 2nd round picks making the league? Len, Warren, Booker, Bender, and Jackson all look to be at the very least, rotational players. It is unfortunate that the Suns happen to have had top picks in very weak drafts, but again it is not like the players they have taken are busts. Even Chriss is still young and could figure it out. Its not like he has not shown flashes. When it comes to the draft, always remember:
McD and Sarver may not be the best in the league, but it does seem like they are learning from their mistakes. I could probably list at least a dozen teams that do not have as bright of future as we do. In a few years, when a prime Booker is draining 3's over an old Stephen Curry, you will see. Golden State was once a complete laughing stock, on a level the Suns are nowhere near, and look where they are now. The timeline might be a complete load of bs, but so is this idea of a winning culture. Talent wins in the NBA, plain and simple. These are not the dark days of a few seasons ago, playing a bunch of vet scrubs trying to fight for the 8th seed. We have young talent and we will start winning soon enough.
bwgood77 wrote:Scutt wrote:Spoiler:
I do not even know where to begin with this post. Up until these couple of Bookerless blowouts, I was just thinking how much more competitive and enjoyable the Suns are to watch as a team under Triano. This team is young and is going to lose a lot of games, but there is plenty to look forward to. I wish Suns fans would keep in mind that is organization has only truly committed to rebuilding for the last couple of years. Rebuilding teams do not give out a massive contract to Tyson Chandler, in the hopes of luring Aldridge. McD has not been perfect, and he has been pretty bad with player relationships, but the moves for Knight and Chandler have Sarvers desire to compete written all over them.
We have what looks like a franchise player in Devin Booker, with Josh Jackson and Bender both improving. Bender at the very least, will be a good rotational player, just based on the fact that he is a 7'1 player who can defend multiple positions and hit the 3. Jackson, plays with a never ending motor, has improved by leaps and bounds since the start of the season and displays a crazy amount of confidence. Those 3 have very bright futures, not to mention we are going to hopefully get another really talented guy in this draft to add to that core.
You say the Suns have no assets for a trade? Tj Warren averages almost 20 points a game and is locked up to a good long term deal. With Josh Jackson on the rise, Warren is the definition of an asset. Though I don't want to see him traded because if he ever learns to shoot the 3, he will be insane on offense.
Why are you listing 2nd picks as evidence of McD being a bad drafter? Do you know what the odds of 2nd round picks making the league? Len, Warren, Booker, Bender, and Jackson all look to be at the very least, rotational players. It is unfortunate that the Suns happen to have had top picks in very weak drafts, but again it is not like the players they have taken are busts. Even Chriss is still young and could figure it out. Its not like he has not shown flashes. When it comes to the draft, always remember:
McD and Sarver may not be the best in the league, but it does seem like they are learning from their mistakes. I could probably list at least a dozen teams that do not have as bright of future as we do. In a few years, when a prime Booker is draining 3's over an old Stephen Curry, you will see. Golden State was once a complete laughing stock, on a level the Suns are nowhere near, and look where they are now. The timeline might be a complete load of bs, but so is this idea of a winning culture. Talent wins in the NBA, plain and simple. These are not the dark days of a few seasons ago, playing a bunch of vet scrubs trying to fight for the 8th seed. We have young talent and we will start winning soon enough.
Great post!
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
Puff wrote:I know I am in the minority, you all can just keep riding the McDonough Spin train, your choice not mine.
We can review my remarks at a later date. I have made similar comments about poor decisions this franchise has made since the day Sarver purchased this franchise. Those comments have been about player decisions, coaching decisions and management decisions. Being a big fan I have bought into the spin that was created after every questionable move and hoped for the best after every decision. I bought into the timeline or whatever the word of the day was at the time. Sarver inherited a team ready to win Championships and required just a few skillful tweaks to accomplish that goal. Under his ownership he has tweaked us into oblivion.
If things come up roses by next March I will eat the proverbial crow and I will enjoy every bit of it. No championship is required just respectability on a nightly basis. That is all I ask. I would love to enjoy watching every minute of every Suns basketball game again.
If things stink as they do now, I will provide the I told you so routine like you have never seen before. Of course I expect he will have another spin routine already prepared.
I know some kind of bad luck will fall down upon poor Ryan that stops him from providing a good product for us to watch and the spin will continue. That is the true prediction I make. That is what happens in a Sarver led franchise. I have watched this act since the day he purchased this franchise.
Somehow results do not really matter to most of you folks.
lilfishi22 wrote:From 2013 when McD took over this team, we went from a lotto-bound to a lotto bound team that's now the butt of jokes around the league. To some McD is almost never at fault, and I was certainly in that boat with that mindset for a long time. When we make a bad move to try and compete, it's Sarver's fault. When we pick in the top 5, it's a **** draft. When we are forced to trade disgruntled players, it's those players fault for being disgruntled.
Ultimately, this is a result driven league and GM's should be evaluated based on results. So either McD is just the unluckiest GM of all time getting great picks exactly some of the worst drafts in recent history or perhaps, he's just not as good as some think he is.
Scutt wrote:lilfishi22 wrote:From 2013 when McD took over this team, we went from a lotto-bound to a lotto bound team that's now the butt of jokes around the league. To some McD is almost never at fault, and I was certainly in that boat with that mindset for a long time. When we make a bad move to try and compete, it's Sarver's fault. When we pick in the top 5, it's a **** draft. When we are forced to trade disgruntled players, it's those players fault for being disgruntled.
Ultimately, this is a result driven league and GM's should be evaluated based on results. So either McD is just the unluckiest GM of all time getting great picks exactly some of the worst drafts in recent history or perhaps, he's just not as good as some think he is.
Before McD took over, Sarver gave us a teams of Dragic, Beasley, Shannon Brown, and Gortat. They were trying to sell fans that we were rebuilding and competing at the same time. We were the laughing stock then, with no true young talent. Now we at least have Booker and Jackson, two players that most other teams would love to have as rebuilding pieces. I just don't get it, how are we in a worse spot since McD took over? Yes, this rebuild has taken longer than I think anyone would like, but as stated multiple times, the Suns did not truly commit to it until just a couple seasons ago.
Can you guys not see that when the Suns are fully healthy, with Booker, they are competitive most nights ? They are young, so they are not winning, but if you cannot see improvement from last year with Earl Watson, I do not know what to say.
I find this whole "the Suns are the laughing stock of the NBA" that so many are pushing to be comic gold. It must be the same people who get themselves worked up and convinced that Booker will not sign a a rookie max with us. For those that want to gut the team and surround Booker with a bunch of vets, just to try and make the 8th seed, go ask Pelican fans how that worked out early on with Anthony Davis.
At the end of the day, I know there are casual Suns fans out there that just want to be a mediocre playoff team, but I for one am happy the Suns finally have seen the light. For example, the Raptors might be the #1 seed in the East right now, but I wouldn't want to trade places with them. They are the new Atlanta Hawks, with no young talent on the roster, just rolling on that treadmill.
lilfishi22 wrote:More than ever....we are in the championship or bust endgame
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
lilfishi22 wrote:
What I find funny is McD supporters still continue to ignore all those terrible moves and believe he's still somehow untouchable. Also, I haven't read a single post from any fan that is convinced Booker won't sign his extension. Not a single one but I'd be more than happy to join you in laughing at this post if you can show it to me.
Revived wrote:I don’t like Sarver one bit either but I think it’s hilarious that any bad move gets blamed on him while only McD gets the praise for any good move.
A few months or so after McD got hired, Sarver came out and said he’s completely staying out of all basketball operations and letting McD handle it all. He repeated this when the Dragic drama happened because he said “I’ve stayed out of all basketball operations but I wish now that I was involved in some manner because i could’ve perhaps ended this in a better way or found a better solution to this”.
No players have bashed a franchise more than the Suns in the past 5 or so years. We definitely have the worst PR in then league imo and it’s not close. Ryan McDonough has a lot to do with that.
