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All Star Weekend

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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#261 » by bwgood77 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:32 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:They got the 2 best players. But a lot of injuries. IDK, still go with Lbj.

I also don't think it's fair that curry was a cap, he's not even close to a top 5 player, hell not even top ten, automatically makes the teams unbalanced when kd goes with LeBron.


Curry's not a top 10 player? OK.

He is the MOST important player on the best team. This is the NBA in today's world. His gravity and shooting is so game changing that it creates opportunities for everyone else. They broke the record of most wins in a season before KD arrived, and Klay/Dray are important, but Steph is the key of it all. The Warriors are no where near where they are without him.

LeBron, kd, Leonard, ad, harden, giannis, Westbrook. As an individual talent, id take any of them easily before curry.

That's 7, n then you have Butler, George, - both elite defenders with size, i think they're better, especially Butler. That's 9.

Then there's Lillard, wall, Irving, cousins, all arguable.

N those are just the players with long resumes. There's a host of others that are compiling resumes, who while they may only have a couple big seasons going, could also be arguable in the next year or so.

I think you're getting starry-eyed over gsws SYSTEM, ORGANIZATION n COACHING. They put together such a synergistic team, from the starters to the last guy they play. Hell of a job. Classic whole is greater than sum of it's parts. You put curry on just about any other team that's just average, that isn't built for his strengths, and he wouldn't be seen in the same light. Not even close. He's been very fortunate in that respect.
Very few players in this league are game changers in that sense, n he isn't one of them.

One last thing. I called that Payton would absolutely abuse curry the other night, Before the game. N he wrecked him. No top superstar should get hammered by an also ran pg for a joke of a team. Like I said, a lot of it is about circumstances n opportunity. He's been fortunate.

N these are all opinions of ours. So if you'd take him over my top ten, ah salute.


Yeah, you did name a bunch of good players, though most of the I wouldn't take, particularly the "arguable" ones.. Curry is the one guy out of all the guys you named that doesn't choke. Some of those guys are not good enough to lead their teams to the playoffs.

But yeah, we can disagree here.

Funny you mention coaching though when they have Iggy coaching the other night, and Walton stepped in for a long stretch one season...never coached before (head coach).

Defense is important, and Curry isn't bad at it, but the ability to shoot THAT well and destroy teams in a hurry and leave others wide open on your team is insane. He just simply has more impact on winning than many of the others, even though some, in a vacuum, I'd take because their overall skills and versatility seem better.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#262 » by darealjuice » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:34 am

Kind of salty that Jimmy Butler took an all star roster spot to not even play a minute...... Not that he doesn't deserve it but at least step on the court if you get the honor.

edit: sounds like he was sicks, never mind lol
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#263 » by AtheJ415 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:LeBron, kd, Leonard, ad, harden, giannis, Westbrook. As an individual talent, id take any of them easily before curry.

That's 7, n then you have Butler, George, - both elite defenders with size, i think they're better, especially Butler. That's 9.

Then there's Lillard, wall, cousins, all arguable.

N those are just the players with long resumes. There's a host of others that are compiling resumes, who while they may only have a couple big seasons going, could also be arguable in the next year or so.

I think you're getting starry-eyed over gsws SYSTEM, ORGANIZATION n COACHING. They put together such a synergistic team, from the starters to the last guy they play. Hell of a job. Classic whole is greater than sum of it's parts. You put curry on just about any other team that's just average, that isn't built for his strengths, and he wouldn't be seen in the same light. Not even close. He's been very fortunate in that respect.
Very few players in this league are game changers in that sense, n he isn't one of them.

One last thing. I called that Payton would absolutely abuse curry the other night, Before the game. N he wrecked him. No top superstar should get hammered by an also ran pg for a joke of a team. Like I said, a lot of it is about circumstances n opportunity. He's been fortunate.

N these are all opinions of ours. So if you'd take him over my top ten, ah salute.


You are overrating defense and athleticism and vastly underrating efficiency. I could do the same with Nash in his prime. Curry is easily one of the top players in the game, just like Nash was. It's not just about raw talent. Absurd skill level matters,

Na, never underestimate defense. I'd put him top 20 for sure, even top 15, but not top ten. N that's no slight, top 15 is quite good.

N to be honest, he could be borderline top 10, like at 10, maybe. So I guess I could be slighting him a bit haha.


It is when he is an MVP winner who is more efficient than most those guys listed. Efficiency is the single most important trait of ranking guys in their primes imo. Defense is important but not primary.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#264 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:40 am

bwgood77 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Curry's not a top 10 player? OK.

He is the MOST important player on the best team. This is the NBA in today's world. His gravity and shooting is so game changing that it creates opportunities for everyone else. They broke the record of most wins in a season before KD arrived, and Klay/Dray are important, but Steph is the key of it all. The Warriors are no where near where they are without him.

LeBron, kd, Leonard, ad, harden, giannis, Westbrook. As an individual talent, id take any of them easily before curry.

That's 7, n then you have Butler, George, - both elite defenders with size, i think they're better, especially Butler. That's 9.

Then there's Lillard, wall, Irving, cousins, all arguable.

N those are just the players with long resumes. There's a host of others that are compiling resumes, who while they may only have a couple big seasons going, could also be arguable in the next year or so.

I think you're getting starry-eyed over gsws SYSTEM, ORGANIZATION n COACHING. They put together such a synergistic team, from the starters to the last guy they play. Hell of a job. Classic whole is greater than sum of it's parts. You put curry on just about any other team that's just average, that isn't built for his strengths, and he wouldn't be seen in the same light. Not even close. He's been very fortunate in that respect.
Very few players in this league are game changers in that sense, n he isn't one of them.

One last thing. I called that Payton would absolutely abuse curry the other night, Before the game. N he wrecked him. No top superstar should get hammered by an also ran pg for a joke of a team. Like I said, a lot of it is about circumstances n opportunity. He's been fortunate.

N these are all opinions of ours. So if you'd take him over my top ten, ah salute.


Yeah, you did name a bunch of good players, though most of the I wouldn't take, particularly the "arguable" ones.. Curry is the one guy out of all the guys you named that doesn't choke. Some of those guys are not good enough to lead their teams to the playoffs.

But yeah, we can disagree here.

Funny you mention coaching though when they have Iggy coaching the other night, and Walton stepped in for a long stretch one season...never coached before (head coach).

Defense is important, and Curry isn't bad at it, but the ability to shoot THAT well and destroy teams in a hurry and leave others wide open on your team is insane. He just simply has more impact on winning than many of the others, even though some, in a vacuum, I'd take because their overall skills and versatility seem better.

So out of the nine I mentioned, which would you take curry before? I can see George, I suppose. U thinking harden?

Like I said in the next post, if he's top ten, I'd put him at number ten, at best.

I do agree he doesn't choke, a great quality, which is why I rank him so high. But I also think a fair amount of guys wouldn't choke given the ample, front-running opportunities that he's had.

Sure the arguable ones are tight.... But I think opportunity n circumstances really make curry look better than he is. Do you really think he's a game changer in the sense I stated it? I really don't.

For an example, I think Tony Parker was a fine player, but we'd barely recognize him as a possible all star on a different team with a more unstable organiztion..... Instead, due to circumstances, he's going in the Hall of Fame, without question. A lot of other pgs of his time could've succeeded in his position with the Spurs.

I also agree about hitting shots n getting others open to killing teams, that's why I also rank him so high.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#265 » by Kerrsed » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:47 am

I dont care what anyone says, that was entertaining as hell. Much better than years past. I think the new format really helped.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#266 » by bwgood77 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:LeBron, kd, Leonard, ad, harden, giannis, Westbrook. As an individual talent, id take any of them easily before curry.

That's 7, n then you have Butler, George, - both elite defenders with size, i think they're better, especially Butler. That's 9.

Then there's Lillard, wall, Irving, cousins, all arguable.

N those are just the players with long resumes. There's a host of others that are compiling resumes, who while they may only have a couple big seasons going, could also be arguable in the next year or so.

I think you're getting starry-eyed over gsws SYSTEM, ORGANIZATION n COACHING. They put together such a synergistic team, from the starters to the last guy they play. Hell of a job. Classic whole is greater than sum of it's parts. You put curry on just about any other team that's just average, that isn't built for his strengths, and he wouldn't be seen in the same light. Not even close. He's been very fortunate in that respect.
Very few players in this league are game changers in that sense, n he isn't one of them.

One last thing. I called that Payton would absolutely abuse curry the other night, Before the game. N he wrecked him. No top superstar should get hammered by an also ran pg for a joke of a team. Like I said, a lot of it is about circumstances n opportunity. He's been fortunate.

N these are all opinions of ours. So if you'd take him over my top ten, ah salute.


Yeah, you did name a bunch of good players, though most of the I wouldn't take, particularly the "arguable" ones.. Curry is the one guy out of all the guys you named that doesn't choke. Some of those guys are not good enough to lead their teams to the playoffs.

But yeah, we can disagree here.

Funny you mention coaching though when they have Iggy coaching the other night, and Walton stepped in for a long stretch one season...never coached before (head coach).

Defense is important, and Curry isn't bad at it, but the ability to shoot THAT well and destroy teams in a hurry and leave others wide open on your team is insane. He just simply has more impact on winning than many of the others, even though some, in a vacuum, I'd take because their overall skills and versatility seem better.

So out of the nine I mentioned, which would you take curry before? I can George, I suppose. U thinking harden?

Like I said in the next post, if he's top ten, I'd put him at number ten, at best.

Sure the arguable ones are tight.... But I think opportunity n circumstances really make curry look better than he is. Do you really think he's a game changer in the sense I stated it? I really don't.

For an example, I think Tony Parker was a fine player, but we'd barely recognize him as a possible all star on a different team with a more unstable organiztion..... Instead, due to circumstances, he's going in the Hall of Fame, without question. A lot of other pgs of his time could've succeeded in his position with the Spurs.


I will answer this as current best player and not who I would want long term on my team or anything. Of course it is tough because it would depend on roster, so you have to go with who would you take in a draft with the first pick to try and win the championship this year.

LeBron, Leonard, if healthy, and possibly Durant. I think that is probably it. The guy simply wins games. AD would be another consideration. Guys like Westbrook and Harden turn it over too much and choke. Durant chokes too so it's hard to take him over Curry but he is as good of a shooter, or close, and has that length, defense, etc....so that might give him the edge. That's probably it for me. I'm not entirely sure Kawhi is worth it either because SA seems to do fine without him. Had GS not had Curry that record breaking year (before Durant was there), I bet they win like 20 fewer games.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#267 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:55 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
You are overrating defense and athleticism and vastly underrating efficiency. I could do the same with Nash in his prime. Curry is easily one of the top players in the game, just like Nash was. It's not just about raw talent. Absurd skill level matters,

Na, never underestimate defense. I'd put him top 20 for sure, even top 15, but not top ten. N that's no slight, top 15 is quite good.

N to be honest, he could be borderline top 10, like at 10, maybe. So I guess I could be slighting him a bit haha.


It is when he is an MVP winner who is more efficient than most those guys listed. Efficiency is the single most important trait of ranking guys in their primes imo. Defense is important but not primary.

It depends, some guys, like Scottie pippen, were so great defensively, it was a major factor in him being an all time great. His offense was just good to very good.

You mentioned Nash. He was never a top 5-8 player. Circumstances made him look greater than he was. Remember when he played for Porter? Just a new coach, n he looked old n has been. Change to Gentry n a trade, back in the conference finals.

I liked Nash, but not everyone can be a top flight player. He also choked regularly. Dribbled the air out of the ball in the last two minutes of big playoff games, like clockwork.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#268 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:59 am

Kerrsed wrote:I dont care what anyone says, that was entertaining as hell. Much better than years past. I think the new format really helped.

Agreed. That was much more fun to watch right from the tipoff. Haven't enjoyed watching an all star game in years.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#269 » by Revived » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:59 am

Kerrsed wrote:
Revived wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:Im diggin the all white uni's!

Wish Booker would have made it, would have been nice to get an all white Booker Suns jersey.

At least he was able to avoid the Kevin Hart awful joke sequence.


IDK, some of them were pretty funny. Sounded very off the top of the head and not scripted.

Eh his joke for Giannis and Drummond were both pretty disrespectful. His joke for Kyrie was annoying and tired out. Even Kyrie himself seemed extremely annoyed about it. There was many others that just seemed inappropriate too.

Brent Barry hit it on the spot

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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#270 » by bwgood77 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:02 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:Na, never underestimate defense. I'd put him top 20 for sure, even top 15, but not top ten. N that's no slight, top 15 is quite good.

N to be honest, he could be borderline top 10, like at 10, maybe. So I guess I could be slighting him a bit haha.


It is when he is an MVP winner who is more efficient than most those guys listed. Efficiency is the single most important trait of ranking guys in their primes imo. Defense is important but not primary.

It depends, some guys, like Scottie pippen, were so great defensively, it was a major factor in him being an all time great. His offense was just good to very good.

You mentioned Nash. He was never a top 5-8 player. Circumstances made him look greater than he was. Remember when he played for Porter? Just a new coach, n he looked old n has been. Change to Gentry n a trade, back in the conference finals.

I liked Nash, but not everyone can be a top flight player. He also choked regularly. Dribbled the air out of the ball in the last two minutes of big playoff games, like clockwork.


I love Nash, but I agree...he in no way was a top 5-8 player. He is a guy I am not sure was even top 10...THAT was a system. Every PG playing under D'Antoni flourishes but we had shooters all over.

BUT, he was valuable to our team, so valuable he won MVP..twice. Yeah, he never played like he did elsewhere except for D'Antoni.

Had he shot a little more and played today, he might have even been more valuable, but I don't think he had quite the skills Curry does.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#271 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:03 am

bwgood77 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Yeah, you did name a bunch of good players, though most of the I wouldn't take, particularly the "arguable" ones.. Curry is the one guy out of all the guys you named that doesn't choke. Some of those guys are not good enough to lead their teams to the playoffs.

But yeah, we can disagree here.

Funny you mention coaching though when they have Iggy coaching the other night, and Walton stepped in for a long stretch one season...never coached before (head coach).

Defense is important, and Curry isn't bad at it, but the ability to shoot THAT well and destroy teams in a hurry and leave others wide open on your team is insane. He just simply has more impact on winning than many of the others, even though some, in a vacuum, I'd take because their overall skills and versatility seem better.

So out of the nine I mentioned, which would you take curry before? I can George, I suppose. U thinking harden?

Like I said in the next post, if he's top ten, I'd put him at number ten, at best.

Sure the arguable ones are tight.... But I think opportunity n circumstances really make curry look better than he is. Do you really think he's a game changer in the sense I stated it? I really don't.

For an example, I think Tony Parker was a fine player, but we'd barely recognize him as a possible all star on a different team with a more unstable organiztion..... Instead, due to circumstances, he's going in the Hall of Fame, without question. A lot of other pgs of his time could've succeeded in his position with the Spurs.


I will answer this as current best player and not who I would want long term on my team or anything. Of course it is tough because it would depend on roster, so you have to go with who would you take in a draft with the first pick to try and win the championship this year.

LeBron, Leonard, if healthy, and possibly Durant. I think that is probably it. The guy simply wins games. AD would be another consideration. Guys like Westbrook and Harden turn it over too much and choke. Durant chokes too so it's hard to take him over Curry but he is as good of a shooter, or close, and has that length, defense, etc....so that might give him the edge. That's probably it for me. I'm not entirely sure Kawhi is worth it either because SA seems to do fine without him. Had GS not had Curry that record breaking year (before Durant was there), I bet they win like 20 fewer games.

Wow, 1 guy n two questionables.

I admit I have to get past my disdain for the softness (no check, no forearm, no physicality, games called like little kids basketball games played on the small court) making guys like curry a star, but I look at circumstances n opportunity a lot more than just- wins a win.

I think if curry went down for the year, gsw would still be in the strong running for the title. They're just way too stacked. Beatable at that point by Houston, but probably still favored.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#272 » by Kerrsed » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:04 am

IDK, i have Westbrook right up there with Curry, dont know who i would take over the other. While i believe Curry is the better shooter, Westbrook has so much more to his game. Last seasons 42 triple doubles was AMAZING! Take him off that team last year and they drop from 3rd in the west to out of the playoff picture. As for Westbrook "Turning it over too much", he averages 1 more turnover than Steph, so its not that big of a deal in my eyes.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#273 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:11 am

bwgood77 wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
It is when he is an MVP winner who is more efficient than most those guys listed. Efficiency is the single most important trait of ranking guys in their primes imo. Defense is important but not primary.

It depends, some guys, like Scottie pippen, were so great defensively, it was a major factor in him being an all time great. His offense was just good to very good.

You mentioned Nash. He was never a top 5-8 player. Circumstances made him look greater than he was. Remember when he played for Porter? Just a new coach, n he looked old n has been. Change to Gentry n a trade, back in the conference finals.

I liked Nash, but not everyone can be a top flight player. He also choked regularly. Dribbled the air out of the ball in the last two minutes of big playoff games, like clockwork.


I love Nash, but I agree...he in no way was a top 5-8 player. He is a guy I am not sure was even top 10...THAT was a system. Every PG playing under D'Antoni flourishes but we had shooters all over.

BUT, he was valuable to our team, so valuable he won MVP..twice. Yeah, he never played like he did elsewhere except for D'Antoni.

Had he shot a little more and played today, he might have even been more valuable, but I don't think he had quite the skills Curry does.

You don't think so? He was old, or at least older, by the time the rules changed. And they weren't even calling the games nearly as tight as today. That was something the NBA took out of the game slowly, to allow teams to adapt.

If he were 25 n primed in this era, I think he'd do just as well, if not better. A far superior passer, it's not even fng close, n just as good a shooter (remember, guys were a lot closer defensively back, then, making shots tougher, n he still had better %'s). He played most of his prime in the old era, so of course he looked better when the rules changed. N like I said, he never got that soft, girl whistle they have these days. No touch basketball.

I think eras dictate guys like Nash n curry. Just like guys like Antonio Davis n Dale Davis may not even make a team these days, but they flourished on perennial playoff teams back in the day. Man's game haha.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#274 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:15 am

Kerrsed wrote:IDK, i have Westbrook right up there with Curry, dont know who i would take over the other. While i believe Curry is the better shooter, Westbrook has so much more to his game. Last seasons 42 triple doubles was AMAZING! Take him off that team last year and they drop from 3rd in the west to out of the playoff picture. As for Westbrook "Turning it over too much", he averages 1 more turnover than Steph, so its not that big of a deal in my eyes.

And he's constantly doubled, n has had to take tougher shots in a catch as catch can offense. They need better coaching. Although overall I'm not a big fan of Westbrook. But he is a freak out there.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#275 » by King4Day » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:19 am

Revived wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
Revived wrote:At least he was able to avoid the Kevin Hart awful joke sequence.


IDK, some of them were pretty funny. Sounded very off the top of the head and not scripted.

Eh his joke for Giannis and Drummond were both pretty disrespectful. His joke for Kyrie was annoying and tired out. Even Kyrie himself seemed extremely annoyed about it. There was many others that just seemed inappropriate too.

Brent Barry hit it on the spot

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I sorta agree but if the players didn't respect the game in years past, I guess Hart figures he didn't have to either.
That's the risk when you get a really popular comedian / movie star to host a game that doesn't need a host.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#276 » by AtheJ415 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:34 am

The idea that Nash was never a top 5-8 player is insane, and thoroughly unsupported by the numbers. He was the greatest 3 point shooter of that time and also the best passer in the NBA. There is a real argument to be made on Nash v. Kobe careerwise due to Nash's extreme efficiency. Today's NBA is dominated by the 3 point line for a reason--b/c math has changed how teams play and efficiency rules out. Also, Westbrook may be getting triple doubles now, but he's not as efficient as some of the others and his D has fallen off.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#277 » by DirtyDez » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:35 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:IDK, i have Westbrook right up there with Curry, dont know who i would take over the other. While i believe Curry is the better shooter, Westbrook has so much more to his game. Last seasons 42 triple doubles was AMAZING! Take him off that team last year and they drop from 3rd in the west to out of the playoff picture. As for Westbrook "Turning it over too much", he averages 1 more turnover than Steph, so its not that big of a deal in my eyes.

And he's constantly doubled, n has had to take tougher shots in a catch as catch can offense. They need better coaching. Although overall I'm not a big fan of Westbrook. But he is a freak out there.


People keep saying OKC needs better coaching even though Westbrook is uncoachable.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#278 » by hollywood6964 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:40 am

AtheJ415 wrote:The idea that Nash was never a top 5-8 player is insane, and thoroughly unsupported by the numbers. He was the greatest 3 point shooter of that time and also the best passer in the NBA. There is a real argument to be made on Nash v. Kobe careerwise due to Nash's extreme efficiency. Today's NBA is dominated by the 3 point line for a reason--b/c math has changed how teams play and efficiency rules out. Also, Westbrook may be getting triple doubles now, but he's not as efficient as some of the others and his D has fallen off.

Come on, Kobe v Nash....
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#279 » by AtheJ415 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:50 am

DirtyDez wrote:
hollywood6964 wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:IDK, i have Westbrook right up there with Curry, dont know who i would take over the other. While i believe Curry is the better shooter, Westbrook has so much more to his game. Last seasons 42 triple doubles was AMAZING! Take him off that team last year and they drop from 3rd in the west to out of the playoff picture. As for Westbrook "Turning it over too much", he averages 1 more turnover than Steph, so its not that big of a deal in my eyes.

And he's constantly doubled, n has had to take tougher shots in a catch as catch can offense. They need better coaching. Although overall I'm not a big fan of Westbrook. But he is a freak out there.


People keep saying OKC needs better coaching even though Westbrook is uncoachable.


That's the thing. Dude takes some awful shots, particularly in crunch time, and it isn't being doubled. Still does it with George just like he did with KD
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Re: All Star Weekend 

Post#280 » by AtheJ415 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:53 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:The idea that Nash was never a top 5-8 player is insane, and thoroughly unsupported by the numbers. He was the greatest 3 point shooter of that time and also the best passer in the NBA. There is a real argument to be made on Nash v. Kobe careerwise due to Nash's extreme efficiency. Today's NBA is dominated by the 3 point line for a reason--b/c math has changed how teams play and efficiency rules out. Also, Westbrook may be getting triple doubles now, but he's not as efficient as some of the others and his D has fallen off.

Come on, Kobe v Nash....


http://nerdnumbers.com/2014/11/12/why-its-difficult-to-tell-steve-nash-was-much-better-than-kobe-bryant/

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