RealGM

Part 7... Off-season speculation and predictions?

1UPZ wrote:If Kawhi wants the super max and still allow the team to be competitive... he would demand a trade now, so the other team who trades for him can go over the cap to sign him.


Suns.... start clearing space.


Booker would be a very good player to play with... shooter, carries the offensive load easily.... can play point if required.
Payton... defensive point guard when motivated... solid offensively and rather pass and play make.

The possibilities are...
If Jackson isnt part of the trade for Kawhi... Jackson and Kawhi would be a terror defensive duo... both read lanes well, excellent pick pockets, great defensive IQs, know where to slide and drop to.... good rebounders.



Then Suns can hopefully keep Bender, but I doubt it... he would be a Spurs type player... so they would ask for him if the Suns do make an offer.



I feel that Doncic, Bender, Warren and a couple more first rounders would be a pretty good haul for a disgruntled Kawhi anyways.... Irving fetched way less. Spurs have their future as well as competing for the next few years.

that's way too much for Kawhi Leonard where he is at
also if the Spurs are dealing him - there is a reason

I just think with all that is going on - let somebody else take the risk on Kawhi

BobbieL wrote:

1UPZ wrote:If Kawhi wants the super max and still allow the team to be competitive... he would demand a trade now, so the other team who trades for him can go over the cap to sign him.


Suns.... start clearing space.


Booker would be a very good player to play with... shooter, carries the offensive load easily.... can play point if required.
Payton... defensive point guard when motivated... solid offensively and rather pass and play make.

The possibilities are...
If Jackson isnt part of the trade for Kawhi... Jackson and Kawhi would be a terror defensive duo... both read lanes well, excellent pick pockets, great defensive IQs, know where to slide and drop to.... good rebounders.



Then Suns can hopefully keep Bender, but I doubt it... he would be a Spurs type player... so they would ask for him if the Suns do make an offer.



I feel that Doncic, Bender, Warren and a couple more first rounders would be a pretty good haul for a disgruntled Kawhi anyways.... Irving fetched way less. Spurs have their future as well as competing for the next few years.

that's way too much for Kawhi Leonard where he is at
also if the Spurs are dealing him - there is a reason

I just think with all that is going on - let somebody else take the risk on Kawhi

If we got Kawhi for Bender, TJ and our pick and Bucks/Miami pick, that would be a steal for the Suns

JJ13 wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

1UPZ wrote:If Kawhi wants the super max and still allow the team to be competitive... he would demand a trade now, so the other team who trades for him can go over the cap to sign him.


Suns.... start clearing space.


Booker would be a very good player to play with... shooter, carries the offensive load easily.... can play point if required.
Payton... defensive point guard when motivated... solid offensively and rather pass and play make.

The possibilities are...
If Jackson isnt part of the trade for Kawhi... Jackson and Kawhi would be a terror defensive duo... both read lanes well, excellent pick pockets, great defensive IQs, know where to slide and drop to.... good rebounders.



Then Suns can hopefully keep Bender, but I doubt it... he would be a Spurs type player... so they would ask for him if the Suns do make an offer.



I feel that Doncic, Bender, Warren and a couple more first rounders would be a pretty good haul for a disgruntled Kawhi anyways.... Irving fetched way less. Spurs have their future as well as competing for the next few years.

that's way too much for Kawhi Leonard where he is at
also if the Spurs are dealing him - there is a reason

I just think with all that is going on - let somebody else take the risk on Kawhi

If we got Kawhi for Bender, TJ and our pick and Bucks/Miami pick, that would be a steal for the Suns

Now I would do that deal. But the deal above was 5 picks for Kawhi - that seems steep

1UPZ wrote:

hollywood6964 wrote:

1UPZ wrote:If Knight comes back and embrace the 6th man PG role next to Warren as the 6th man SF role...suns would have a potent scoring duo off the bench assuming both are willing to cooperate.


But that's the coach's job... Hence a strong tactical coach is needed to make players accept their roles IMO... Suns have had way nice coaches... Heck Hornacek is only becoming "tough" now... Cannot believe he shoved Noah lol... Could have used that when Suns had the Morris twins.

These aren't robots to manipulate, the coach can only do so much. Some players just won't be happy coming off the bench. And some outright refuse. We'll see what happens when bk is coming off the back again. Probably play like ****. Warren, idk. We'll see.

Jamal Crawford and Ginobili 2 excellent players came off the bench.


They must believe that them coming off the bench is best for the team and themselves too.

While those two players were ok with it, there's many that just wouldn't do it. Or there moping is evident, n it doesn't work. I think Warren, as he is right now, is a great 6th man on a contending team.

Of course on our team, he the second best player. You just hope he doesn't think he's really a #2 option, n when the team is good, just thinks it goes without saying that his current role should be grandfathered in.

Now Knight..... Unless he thinks his career is starting to wet the bed, n is looking for a way to show other teams, n maybe phx, that he's still valuable....I just don't think he has the personality to concede a bench role. He seems like he really thinks he's something special.

I would rather keep our powder dry in order to target AD or potentially Giannis (if the Bucks stagnate) in a year or three.

If I could trade for anyone on the Spurs, it would be Popovich, not Kawhi.

Don't get me wrong - a Jackson/Chriss/MIA pick for Kawhi is not an objectively bad idea. It's not my preferred course, but we'd be competitive immediately. Is Kawhi really okay sharing the spotlight with Book? IDK.

My preference, as always, is to hold on. Before we add an established star, I prefer that our team be an established contender. The Suns got to the WCF in 89 and 90 before adding Chuck in the summer of 92. Let's be sure we get a good look at the future of our young players before we ship them out for a win-now piece.

Leonard is in his prime. He could still be in his prime when Booker reaches his, but the entire rest of the roster should hit their ceilings at roughly the same time. Standing pat is the way to go. Don't short circuit the rebuild!! Stay the course!!!

hollywood6964 wrote:While those two players were ok with it, there's many that just wouldn't do it. Or there moping is evident, n it doesn't work. I think Warren, as he is right now, is a great 6th man on a contending team.

Of course on our team, he the second best player. You just hope he doesn't think he's really a #2 option, n when the team is good, just thinks it goes without saying that his current role should be grandfathered in.

Now Knight..... Unless he thinks his career is starting to wet the bed, n is looking for a way to show other teams, n maybe phx, that he's still valuable....I just don't think he has the personality to concede a bench role. He seems like he really thinks he's something special.

I don't think Warren is the type of guy to mope or complain about his role too much. I'm sure he does feel he is a #2 option since he is, but if he played on another team he may not be. Just as Booker should feel he is a #1 option but if he was on the Warriors or some other teams, he might not be and I don't think people necessarily should say "I hope he doesn't really think he's a #1 option" because you want those players to feel like he is.

When Harden was 6th man, I'm sure he felt like he could be a #2 option. He ended up being a #1 option and MVP as he continued to improve past his rookie contract. Ginobili probably felt like he could be a #2 option even though he was 6th man. I mean you can bet Durant feels like he can be a #1 option but when going to the Warriors he conceded this is Curry's team.

Also, a player might not be the 2nd best player on a team...they might be the 4th best, but they could still be the #2 scoring option.

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I would rather keep our powder dry in order to target AD or potentially Giannis (if the Bucks stagnate) in a year or three.

If I could trade for anyone on the Spurs, it would be Popovich, not Kawhi.

Don't get me wrong - a Jackson/Chriss/MIA pick for Kawhi is not an objectively bad idea. It's not my preferred course, but we'd be competitive immediately. Is Kawhi really okay sharing the spotlight with Book? IDK.

My preference, as always, is to hold on. Before we add an established star, I prefer that our team be an established contender. The Suns got to the WCF in 89 and 90 before adding Chuck in the summer of 92. Let's be sure we get a good look at the future of our young players before we ship them out for a win-now piece.

Leonard is in his prime. He could still be in his prime when Booker reaches his, but the entire rest of the roster should hit their ceilings at roughly the same time. Standing pat is the way to go. Don't short circuit the rebuild!! Stay the course!!!

A Jackson/Chriss/Miami pick for Kawhi trade would be a steal if he's healthy, but I doubt it's enough.

BobbieL wrote:

JJ13 wrote:

BobbieL wrote:
that's way too much for Kawhi Leonard where he is at
also if the Spurs are dealing him - there is a reason

I just think with all that is going on - let somebody else take the risk on Kawhi

If we got Kawhi for Bender, TJ and our pick and Bucks/Miami pick, that would be a steal for the Suns

Now I would do that deal. But the deal above was 5 picks for Kawhi - that seems steep

Picks are a way to bring in talent... and HOPE they become 1/10th as talented as Kawhi..

Kawhi is the BEST 2 way player in the game.... you cannot ask for more.... PERFECT next to Booker.

The Suns are an incredibly Young team already.... if you get Kawhi, Booker and few of young pieces like Jackson, Chriss, Payton etc

You WON'T be going to the draft to get better... you will have Veteran players to fill the roster so the team competes.

You also attract other FA stars.... thats how Superteams occur.....



5 picks is too much... but 3-4 especially if are all first rounders is not too much to pair Kawhi and Booker, which would be amazing for the next 5-7 years.

bwgood77 wrote:

hollywood6964 wrote:While those two players were ok with it, there's many that just wouldn't do it. Or there moping is evident, n it doesn't work. I think Warren, as he is right now, is a great 6th man on a contending team.

Of course on our team, he the second best player. You just hope he doesn't think he's really a #2 option, n when the team is good, just thinks it goes without saying that his current role should be grandfathered in.

Now Knight..... Unless he thinks his career is starting to wet the bed, n is looking for a way to show other teams, n maybe phx, that he's still valuable....I just don't think he has the personality to concede a bench role. He seems like he really thinks he's something special.

I don't think Warren is the type of guy to mope or complain about his role too much. I'm sure he does feel he is a #2 option since he is, but if he played on another team he may not be. Just as Booker should feel he is a #1 option but if he was on the Warriors or some other teams, he might not be and I don't think people necessarily should say "I hope he doesn't really think he's a #1 option" because you want those players to feel like he is.

When Harden was 6th man, I'm sure he felt like he could be a #2 option. He ended up being a #1 option and MVP as he continued to improve past his rookie contract. Ginobili probably felt like he could be a #2 option even though he was 6th man. I mean you can bet Durant feels like he can be a #1 option but when going to the Warriors he conceded this is Curry's team.

Also, a player might not be the 2nd best player on a team...they might be the 4th best, but they could still be the #2 scoring option.

........bad post.

I didn't say that. Not everything is black and white. Every player is different, n what I said about Warren doesnt directly crossover to everyone else. Shades of grey.

Didn't LMA also wanted out? Why would Spurs let go Kawhi who is much better player?

https://grandstandcentral.com/the-next-80-nba-champions-according-to-a-16-hour-2k-sim-ad1a78d7a129
Only 56 years until Suns first title! I'm excited already!

bwgood77 wrote:

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:I would rather keep our powder dry in order to target AD or potentially Giannis (if the Bucks stagnate) in a year or three.

If I could trade for anyone on the Spurs, it would be Popovich, not Kawhi.

Don't get me wrong - a Jackson/Chriss/MIA pick for Kawhi is not an objectively bad idea. It's not my preferred course, but we'd be competitive immediately. Is Kawhi really okay sharing the spotlight with Book? IDK.

My preference, as always, is to hold on. Before we add an established star, I prefer that our team be an established contender. The Suns got to the WCF in 89 and 90 before adding Chuck in the summer of 92. Let's be sure we get a good look at the future of our young players before we ship them out for a win-now piece.

Leonard is in his prime. He could still be in his prime when Booker reaches his, but the entire rest of the roster should hit their ceilings at roughly the same time. Standing pat is the way to go. Don't short circuit the rebuild!! Stay the course!!!

A Jackson/Chriss/Miami pick for Kawhi trade would be a steal if he's healthy, but I doubt it's enough.

I assume it would be Jackson, 2018 1st as the starting point. Chris's plus another first as well I would guess. In the end it comes down to how San Antonio feels about Jackson. I love Jackson as a prospect but I think you would have to pull the trigger on that deal.

Damkac wrote:Didn't LMA also wanted out? Why would Spurs let go Kawhi who is much better player?

Pop was able to smooth things over with LMA. Doesnt sound like Kawhi is willing to do that at this point. The fact he is refusing to play after being medically cleared is crazy. Thought the rumors were exaggerated - maybe not.

Im sorry, but i might be the only one that wouldnt do any Kawhi trade that involves our pick and JJ.

While the kid is a great player, you are dealing with a guy who was just injured.....and the situation surrounding his injury and how really bad it is are ...in a word.... mysterious.

Second, he is begging to be released from one of the best run and winningest franchises. That right there speaks VOLUMES to me.

Third, we dont and wouldnt know if he would even be ok re-signing with us, a bottom feeder team who has sucked for over 7 years now, and whos owner doesnt have a good reputation in the league.

Forth, if he does decide to re-ink with us, that is going to be a ton of money tied up in a single player. Add in what its going to cost to keep Booker, and our budget is blown right there. We will be stuck with 1 great player (If he is anywhere close to his pre-injury self), one almost great player in Booker, and the rest of the squad would be cheap scrubs. I'd rather pay a quarter of that amount for JJ and whoever we get with our FRP, and still have future cash to build a more balanced team.

I also wonder how well he would play in a system that isnt the Spurs. Call this the Pop effect if you must, but when guys like Aldridge and Gasol who have a sudden resurgence in their careers and are all of a sudden putting up the stats that they are and magically posting a 20+ PER, i wonder exactly how much of that is due to the system that they play in. Like Isaiah in Boston, or any of the scrubs that we had playing with Nash, i would be PISSED if we traded a stockpile of picks and young talent for Kawhi, and all of a sudden see his numbers drop off a cliff, all the while being stuck paying him $20M per season for the next few years. Then after that it becomes a situation of "Do we re-sign him to an even larger deal hoping that his on the court performance comes back to what it was during his time with the Spurs, or do we just cut our losses and look like utter fools because we gave away so much and our future for a guy we only kept for 2 seasons".

Going after Kawahi would cost a lot, not only in terms of what we would have to give the Spurs to get him, but also what it would cost financially to keep him, and im sorry, there are just too many red flags around him in my book.

I don't buy the Kawhi rumors at all. Even if I trusted the NBA's rumor mill and people like Jalen Rose, which I don't, Kawhi isn't the type of dude at all to blab to a bunch of people that he's unhappy and all that **** like diva types do. Dude doesn't talk to anyone. Dude is not the drama type. There may be some disagreements about his injury and whether he should play now or not, but no way do I believe there's serious tension and "I want out" type stuff. Nope.

Kerrsed wrote:Im sorry, but i might be the only one that wouldnt do any Kawhi trade that involves our pick and JJ.

While the kid is a great player, you are dealing with a guy who was just injured.....and the situation surrounding his injury and how really bad it is are ...in a word.... mysterious.

Second, he is begging to be released from one of the best run and winningest franchises. That right there speaks VOLUMES to me.

Third, we dont and wouldnt know if he would even be ok re-signing with us, a bottom feeder team who has sucked for over 7 years now, and whos owner doesnt have a good reputation in the league.

Forth, if he does decide to re-ink with us, that is going to be a ton of money tied up in a single player. Add in what its going to cost to keep Booker, and our budget is blown right there. We will be stuck with 1 great player (If he is anywhere close to his pre-injury self), one almost great player in Booker, and the rest of the squad would be cheap scrubs. I'd rather pay a quarter of that amount for JJ and whoever we get with our FRP, and still have future cash to build a more balanced team.

I also wonder how well he would play in a system that isnt the Spurs. Call this the Pop effect if you must, but when guys like Aldridge and Gasol who have a sudden resurgence in their careers and are all of a sudden putting up the stats that they are and magically posting a 20+ PER, i wonder exactly how much of that is due to the system that they play in. Like Isaiah in Boston, or any of the scrubs that we had playing with Nash, i would be PISSED if we traded a stockpile of picks and young talent for Kawhi, and all of a sudden see his numbers drop off a cliff, all the while being stuck paying him $20M per season for the next few years. Then after that it becomes a situation of "Do we re-sign him to an even larger deal hoping that his on the court performance comes back to what it was during his time with the Spurs, or do we just cut our losses and look like utter fools because we gave away so much and our future for a guy we only kept for 2 seasons".

Going after Kawahi would cost a lot, not only in terms of what we would have to give the Spurs to get him, but also what it would cost financially to keep him, and im sorry, there are just too many red flags around him in my book.

Agreed. We shoudn't mortgage our future for an injured player. I trust that our training staff would red flag him if necessary.

Never trade with the Spurs.

Kerrsed wrote:Im sorry, but i might be the only one that wouldnt do any Kawhi trade that involves our pick and JJ.

While the kid is a great player, you are dealing with a guy who was just injured.....and the situation surrounding his injury and how really bad it is are ...in a word.... mysterious.

Second, he is begging to be released from one of the best run and winningest franchises. That right there speaks VOLUMES to me.

Third, we dont and wouldnt know if he would even be ok re-signing with us, a bottom feeder team who has sucked for over 7 years now, and whos owner doesnt have a good reputation in the league.

Forth, if he does decide to re-ink with us, that is going to be a ton of money tied up in a single player. Add in what its going to cost to keep Booker, and our budget is blown right there. We will be stuck with 1 great player (If he is anywhere close to his pre-injury self), one almost great player in Booker, and the rest of the squad would be cheap scrubs. I'd rather pay a quarter of that amount for JJ and whoever we get with our FRP, and still have future cash to build a more balanced team.

I also wonder how well he would play in a system that isnt the Spurs. Call this the Pop effect if you must, but when guys like Aldridge and Gasol who have a sudden resurgence in their careers and are all of a sudden putting up the stats that they are and magically posting a 20+ PER, i wonder exactly how much of that is due to the system that they play in. Like Isaiah in Boston, or any of the scrubs that we had playing with Nash, i would be PISSED if we traded a stockpile of picks and young talent for Kawhi, and all of a sudden see his numbers drop off a cliff, all the while being stuck paying him $20M per season for the next few years. Then after that it becomes a situation of "Do we re-sign him to an even larger deal hoping that his on the court performance comes back to what it was during his time with the Spurs, or do we just cut our losses and look like utter fools because we gave away so much and our future for a guy we only kept for 2 seasons".

Going after Kawahi would cost a lot, not only in terms of what we would have to give the Spurs to get him, but also what it would cost financially to keep him, and im sorry, there are just too many red flags around him in my book.

It's a tough call and most of your points I agree with BUT it is Kawhi Leonard - a top five player in the NBA.

I think if he is damaged goods that would be uncovered during the trade process.

His relationship with the Spurs organization isn't as concerning for me. If they **** up the medical diagnosis and/or rehab that's a big deal and should cause him pause.

Resigning him would be a major concern of mine but Booker and out medical staff are helpful.

Paying him huge dollars for years 28-33 is not a major concern. Cap space is supposed to be used on talent. He is some of the best talent in the NBA. If you don't pay him then who do you pay?

The Spurs affect I don't worry about with a player of his caliber. His game has grown to a point that he can shoot, create for himself and others, dominate in iso, dominate on the defensive end. He is legit.

But again, it's a tough call. I love JJ. If I had more confidence in our organization to fix his shot I may feel more like you. Also, it obviously depends where the Suns pick ends up.

I'll say this, given Jackson's play of late, I don't think trading him and our own 1st this year is smart for a star. We have enough other picks and youngsters to get a guy without including both. For instance, I'd consider both Jackson and Doncic or Ayton extreme. I would rather just keep the youngster.