The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

[SkinnyOMiller]

Say we were somehow able to trade with Dallas for the 5th pick. Is Doncic and Bamba better than Ayton and Trae Young?

Maybe. I'm not sold on Young.

Worst defensive backcourt in basketball. They'd get a train run on them every night.

[bigfoot]

It is strange that they really choked from the perimeter in those tourney. I guess they just faced better perimeter D or just choked, but overall the team wasn't really wasn't a bad 3 pt shooting team for the season. I mean Trier put up almost 5.6 attempts per game, Awlkins 4 and PJC 3.4.

Their numbers were padded due to the Pac12.

Any UofA fan who watched them should legitimately be able to say they're not pure shooters.

Hmmm ... so isn't that the same for Ayton ... his numbers were padded due to the Pac12? Sounds about right.

[8on]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1529902/nba-draft-2018-luka-doncic-scouting-report/

[8on]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1706975

[AtheJ415]

It's just frightening the thought of picking a player #1 who has relied on athleticism and size to dominate inferior players but then must go against players are physically and athletically the same or better. More concerning is the question of Ayton's defensive motor and basketball IQ.

One of the big knocks on Ayton is his work on block when defending. Even with his size he got bullied in college by offensive bigs working to get their post position. Ayton will be abused by mature NBA players who are way more physical than college players. Ayton has not proven to be a defensive juggernaut when playing against higher level talent.

Ayton on the Nike Hoop Summit 2016 World Select Team gave up the largest margin of victory in the event history. He had one of the worst +/- on the team ... https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2016/04/usa-wins-2016-nike-hoop-summit.aspx

His defense is suspect. His offense is far inferior to Doncic. Could be the second coming of Michael Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, or Anthony Bennett

Doncic creates shots for others, creates shots for himself, rebounds, can hit the three, runs an awesome pick and roll game, and runs the fast break beautifully. Picking Doncic is a no brainer. The team will get more wins next year where with Ayton its not as likely.

The bolded just isn't true. Even if it was, I mean really? So we're just going to not draft superior athletes anymore? Let's see how that works out. Ayton's main offensive move is the face up jumper, which is not relying on athleticism or size really (I guess every jumper to an extent relies on size though). He is a skilled player offensively with an array of moves and a ton of touch. It's not like he's a raw athlete on offense. He really isn't. Has a refined post game and a lot of touch. He just needs to add some arch on his jumper to extend to the NBA 3 point line and he needs to get a lot better in terms of defensive awareness off the ball. But first, the only big in the entire NBA who has his athleticism at his size is Embiid, so it's not like he will be playing with an even deck anyways.

I am curious if you can find one person in scouting who is worried about him getting bullied. He is bigger and stronger than all but a couple of NBA centers, and he wasn't a push over at Arizona. His issues were off the ball help-side D and pNr D.

And frankly, the comparisons to Candy Man, Bennett, and Kwame make me think you are either an irrational ASU fan who just hates the dude or have never really watched him play, because those are flat out insane. There is nothing about their games that is similar. Hell, I wouldn't even argue that Candy Man, Bennett, nor Kwame have similar games to each other, and at least with Bennett and Kwame both were reach picks who were not seen like Ayton was nor were they anywhere near as productive at the same relative levels.

[MrMiyagi]

Ayton is a monster on offense but he's so bad defensively that I'm not sure I like him at #1. Someone sent me this video earlier:

Watch on YouTube

Dude looks like Amare out there on defense. Buffalo was purposely attacking Ayton because they knew he couldn't guard them. He makes extremely poor decisions on the defensive end. He was constantly giving up the baseline. It wasn't even so much that they were scorching him, he was just putting himself into bad positions. There's a Doncic video out there and he seems to have MUCH better defensive instincts than Ayton. I'd hate to see what an NBA team would do to Ayton. They'd just play for the switch and then get to the rim on damn near every possession.

People need to understand that just because someone makes a shot over a player, doesn't mean it was bad defense. Also in quite a few of these, he's executing the system. Miller wants his bigs to hedge on screens and then go back to their man. He doesn't want them to switch.

And, again, it's a 1:30 clip of a game in which he played 38 minutes. And there's a lot of Dusan Ristic getting in the way.

[kennydorglas]

Ayton is a monster on offense but he's so bad defensively that I'm not sure I like him at #1. Someone sent me this video earlier:

Watch on YouTube

Dude looks like Amare out there on defense. Buffalo was purposely attacking Ayton because they knew he couldn't guard them. He makes extremely poor decisions on the defensive end. He was constantly giving up the baseline. It wasn't even so much that they were scorching him, he was just putting himself into bad positions. There's a Doncic video out there and he seems to have MUCH better defensive instincts than Ayton. I'd hate to see what an NBA team would do to Ayton. They'd just play for the switch and then get to the rim on damn near every possession.

Turning his back to the weakside play, dont even bothering to contest guys at the rim.
This is the kind of stuff that drove me CRAZY all year long.
He just has bad instincts, those baseline drives were SCREAMING REVERSE LAYUP and he was super late on both of them.
NBA is a very fast paced league right now, just watch how crazy quick GSW and Houston make their decisions on both ends.
Guys who are always one step slow becomes a liability and it's super hard to overcome this.

[TeamTragic]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1706975

[Don7]

— European league not as good as it used to be – competition is weaker. Only about 8-10 good teams now

— Might have reached his peak

— Could struggle in more physical NBA

— Non-athletic


— Very immature

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

— Is not a point guard at next level … is a wing playmaker who can play the 2-3 but can at times guard 4 different positions

— Should absolutely be in consideration for No. 1 pick because of his overall talent

lol BY JOHN GAMBADORO

Jesus **** Crhist.Is he scared that Luka will take his wife or what?

Thousand of reporters including ESPN and others made a story about him and didn't mention one thing.
And all the teammates are prasing him all the time..

"Suns will draft Ayton so i will trash Doncic just to be sure" seems to me...

[AtheJ415]

I’m surprised more people aren’t excited about a Kokoskov/Ayton pairing considering his work with Gobert. Pains me to say but he’ll receive 5x the coaching Ayton did in Tucson.

Seems like this is being overlooked.

Even as an Arizona fan I can say Miller is simply not a great basketball coach. His offense is not creative, and his defense is perhaps uniquely ill-suited to the modern game. Miller's talent has been his ability to put together recruiting classes, and that was always going to be his path to success.

I think the key is, what former U of A players under Miller have substantially improved beyond substantially after receiving NBA coaching? They've all largely played to what their predictions were with similar strengths and weaknesses in the NBA. Stanley Johnson looks like a major disappointment, Hollis-Jefferson has played up to his billing in terms of his strengths and weaknesses being a tremendous defender but lacking offensively, Markkanen seems to be what most expected him to be though it has only been one season, none of these guys have taken a huge leap in the NBA.

I think this is largely irrelevant. They are all different players and how they improve depends on them. It's not like 1 year under Miller somehow means a player won't improve on weaknesses after leaving. Hell, look at TJ McConnell who is beyond outplaying all expectations anybody ever had for his professional career. If you put a lot of guys into the NBA, most will perform as expected, with a small amount who outperform, and a slightly larger amount who underperform. That is true of just about every coach that sends a large number to the NBA.

I think Miller is incredibly stubborn and refuses to adapt to his lineups. I don't think he needs to get rid of the packline, but if he's going to play it he needs to recruit to it like UVA does. He does need to mix up his offense.

[kennydorglas]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1706975

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[8on]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1706975

We do need a playmaker. There wasn’t a true point guard at U of A last season, and Ayton suffered when he couldn’t get the ball. I want to ensure his success. If we do pick him, we have more use for Ball than Josh. Most people outside of Suns world would agree. Lonzo made the Lakers better.

Much rather have Ball/Ayton than Doncic/Capela. Not close

[kennydorglas]

— European league not as good as it used to be – competition is weaker. Only about 8-10 good teams now

— Might have reached his peak

— Could struggle in more physical NBA

— Non-athletic


— Very immature

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

— Is not a point guard at next level … is a wing playmaker who can play the 2-3 but can at times guard 4 different positions

— Should absolutely be in consideration for No. 1 pick because of his overall talent

lol BY JOHN GAMBADORO

Jesus **** Crhist.Is he scared that Luka will take his wife or what?

Thousand of reporters including ESPN and others made a story about him and didn't mention one thing.
And all the teammates are prasing him all the time..

"Suns will draft Ayton so i will trash Doncic just to be sure" seems to me...

Gambo is just trash. Sadly Luka isnt a hometown boy... I guess this will get worse next month.

[Don7]

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

Watch on YouTube

Not liked by teammates

RM captain congratulation him on triple double.


What a bunch of rubbish.
I dont have anything against you if you prefer Ayton(fair choice)but straight up lying about Doncic is low..

EDIT : Reyes is 6-9 btw

[MrMiyagi]

— European league not as good as it used to be – competition is weaker. Only about 8-10 good teams now

— Might have reached his peak

— Could struggle in more physical NBA

— Non-athletic


— Very immature

— Not mentally or emotionally prepared to play in NBA right now​

— Entitled

— Full of himself

— Not liked by teammates

— Is not a point guard at next level … is a wing playmaker who can play the 2-3 but can at times guard 4 different positions

— Should absolutely be in consideration for No. 1 pick because of his overall talent

lol BY JOHN GAMBADORO

Jesus **** Crhist.Is he scared that Luka will take his wife or what?

Thousand of reporters including ESPN and others made a story about him and didn't mention one thing.
And all the teammates are prasing him all the time..

"Suns will draft Ayton so i will trash Doncic just to be sure" seems to me...

Gambo is just trash. Sadly Luka isnt a hometown boy... I guess this will get worse next month.

And he has a bad haircut too!

Like, I prefer Ayton over Doncic, but most of those aren't even remotely relevant or true.

[bigfoot]

Ayton is a monster on offense but he's so bad defensively that I'm not sure I like him at #1. Someone sent me this video earlier:

Watch on YouTube

Dude looks like Amare out there on defense. Buffalo was purposely attacking Ayton because they knew he couldn't guard them. He makes extremely poor decisions on the defensive end. He was constantly giving up the baseline. It wasn't even so much that they were scorching him, he was just putting himself into bad positions. There's a Doncic video out there and he seems to have MUCH better defensive instincts than Ayton. I'd hate to see what an NBA team would do to Ayton. They'd just play for the switch and then get to the rim on damn near every possession.

This right here is the smoking gun about how NBA teams will abuse Ayton on defense. He is unable to defend the perimeter and will be put in pick and roll switches all the time. Because he can't handle perimeter players he will be benched in favor of a 6'8 to 6'10 player who can. Bigs are just too slow in the modern NBA game. His post game is polished only against inferior opponents and right now doesn't translate against bigger, stronger, athletic NBA men. He's a 50-50 bust prospect in my mind. Too risky a pick when you have a sure fire player in Doncic.

[AtheJ415]

Except the scary thing was that KAT was a much better defender in college than Ayton.

Kentucky was a juggernaut defensively that year. Arizona didn’t have single good defender. Cal’s teams are top-5 in adjD every year. That used to be Miller.

That's what is kind of concerning. I know AZ didn't have great defensive players but Miller's teams have always been good defensively. And you get a guy with those kinds of tools and you have your worst defensive team ever. Suddenly Miller became a bad coach? I know he's blamed for a lot of any issues Ayton had (played two bigs together, bad system for Ayton, etc) but it also sounds like a lot of excuses.

Ayton passed the eye test on occasion when seeing him guard 1 on 1 or on the perimeter and he did become a better shot blocker throughout the year.

I think all of the potential legal issues and noise maybe impacted Miller but it just seems odd to say he suddenly forgot how to coach defense when he's been one of the better defensive coaches in the country for years.

Ayton was a part of the defensive problem off the ball. That team sucked at D though because the entire team sucked at D. Nobody communicated. The pick and roll D from the guards through to everyone on the team was particularly awful. Alkins had once been a great defender but was coming off injury and played badly on that end. Trier clearly stopped trying defensively. PJC couldn't do anything on that end due to physical limitation, and Ristic and Ayton were both out of position frequently on cross matches because frankly they both shouldn't have been playing together. Dylan Smith might be the dumbest player that Arizona has had under Miller in terms of his decisionmaking on both ends, and was certainly a particularly terrible defender. The only individual defender I can say a positive thing about on that team is Akot.

I just don't see how people look at the team performance and hold Ayton accountable for its defensive issues. Any of TJ, Nick Johnson, Rondae HJ, Aaron Gordon, Brandon Ashley, Kadeem Allen would have been the best defender on the current team, and all of those made up the majority of Miller's prior teams. Last year they were better on that end with Lauri, but last year Alkins was a great defender and they also had Kadeem Allen and a Trier who cared to play on that end of the court. Either of those 3 would have been the best defender on the current team.

All of that to say, if Ayton had been playing with 2-3 of the guys mentioned above and still struggled, I'd get the concern. Fact is that was the worst defensive team because it had the worst defensive players up and down the roster for Miller's entire career. It wasn't because Ayton is somehow that much worse than Lauri. I'd actually argue Ayton is a better defender than Lauri. The difference from that 1 year was losing Kadeem, Alkins getting hurt and never fully recovering, and Trier auditioning his offensive skills for the NBA.

[bwgood77]

http://arizonasports.com/story/1529902/nba-draft-2018-luka-doncic-scouting-report/

People are joking about these all over twitter. There is an "anonymous" one on Ayton too. Right after Gambo's intro where he says Ayton "can rim protect like no other" the anonymous scout says "Not a shot blocker".

Some of the user comments on that Doncic one are funny too.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1530219/nba-draft-2018-deandre-ayton-scouting-report/

[kennydorglas]

lol BY JOHN GAMBADORO

Jesus **** Crhist.Is he scared that Luka will take his wife or what?

Thousand of reporters including ESPN and others made a story about him and didn't mention one thing.
And all the teammates are prasing him all the time..

"Suns will draft Ayton so i will trash Doncic just to be sure" seems to me...

Gambo is just trash. Sadly Luka isnt a hometown boy... I guess this will get worse next month.

And he has a bad haircut too!

Like, I prefer Ayton over Doncic, but most of those aren't even remotely relevant or true.

Yep, and I thought that wanting Kidd to be our coach would be his worst move.
Well played, Trashdoro

[8on]

Doncic is worse on D than Ayton. I don’t expect Ayton to be great defending the perimeter at 19. I don’t expect him to be great at defending mismatches. He can fix that