The Draft (Postseason Edition): 1/16/31/59 (NEW POLL)

[Wilber85]

I will bet anyone in this room that JJJ ends up a bust! Any takers? Y'all are crazy.

I also think Doncic will suck!

Message me. I will make a bet, and we can both agree on criteria, years, etc.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Porter would really have to blow teams away with his improved conditioning for him to be in top 4 calculation.

Bamba worries me as the emphasis on perimeter play has gone to another level outside of Anthony Davis no big has really been a difference maker in the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

[thamadkant]

I will bet anyone in this room that JJJ ends up a bust! Any takers? Y'all are crazy.

I also think Doncic will suck!

Message me. I will make a bet, and we can both agree on criteria, years, etc.

lol

[bwgood77]

Tankathon has us taking this guy at 59. I wonder if he is a draft and stash type prospect or if he is planning to try and come over. Pretty exciting highlights. He's got over a 7 ft wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

[jcsunsfan]

Main concern with Jackson is high foul rate, inability to finish down low for a big man(low compared to even guards) but some of that can be attributed to being played out of position as a PF by Izzo. Also he seems to shoot from his chest which limits his off the dribble/pull up ability and he can't really create for himself or others as a playmaker. Bamba is the superior 1v1 man defender/shot alterer and more raw potential due to measurables but Jackson is over a full year younger and could also l be a future DPOY candidate showing ability to switch onto smaller players farther away from the rim and as a helpside enforcer.

Bamba has 5 inch longer wingspan than Jackson Jr which is ridiculous so he literally just have to jump slightly to make his man alter his shot. But with that said... He's easy to bully down low... He is about 2 years away from being a proper shot altered down low. Jackson Jr is better roaming around as a defender... He covers ground very very well due to his length and moves laterally well for a 6'11 guy.

My take is ... JJJ offensively will be 3 years way from being legit there... Meanwhile he will just be a open lane dunker or spot shooter outside... But defensively he would be guarding multiple positions well already. Bamba in the other hand would be bullied down low in both ends until he develops better strength. Like Capela... It took him 2 to 3 years before he could get strong enough to hold his ground and hence get minutes.

JJJ’s blocked shot rate/40 is higher than Bamba’s. The kid has amazingly quick hands. Still. He is such a project. He will be inconsistent and overwhelmed for a couple of years.


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[Thespianoid]

Tankathon has us taking this guy at 59. I wonder if he is a draft and stash type prospect or if he is planning to try and come over. Pretty exciting highlights. He's got over a 7 ft wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

[bwgood77]

Tankathon has us taking this guy at 59. I wonder if he is a draft and stash type prospect or if he is planning to try and come over. Pretty exciting highlights. He's got over a 7 ft wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Well there goes that. We certainly don't need anymore sub 30% 3 pt shooters anyway.

[JMac1]

Read on Twitter

You know, it’s just hard for me to go against a guy who produced versus another who didn’t and they were both freshmen. Ignoring what’s real and imagining what could be real is dangerous. You can get a Giannis or Kwane Brown. I need real production not per 36 production, you are adding a significant amount of unknown variables that are not measured in that stat.

JJJ could be great; I’m ok with that if he does it on another team, however, Trae and Bagley I am not ok with it because they have shown you what they can do and to just ignore it over someone who hasn’t, is taking a big risk. Again, especially when they are all the same age. 6-9mos difference is no big deal.

I can see Bagley in a AD roll all day long. News flash, he is gonna get better than he is now as well. Coaches in college limit your game, see Booker, Jordan, Mitchell.

Bagley with a right hand and 3pt shot would be incredible. I consider Ayton just a little better because of size, however he doesn’t have Bagley’s natural fluidity. Bagley is easily the 3rd pick. The fourth is where I get worried, and that’s only if Trae can be guarded 1 on 1 on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

I’m ok with the top 3.

[Mulhollanddrive]

But what if you applied that philosophy about drafting production to the 2015 and 2014 Draft top 4?

2015 College / Europe
Russell - 19 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists
Okafor - 17 points, 8 rebounds
Porzingis - 11 points, 4 rebounds
Towns - 10 points, 6 rebounds

2014 College 
Parker - 19 points, 8 rebounds
Wiggins - 17 points, 5 rebounds
Gordon - 12 points, 8 rebounds
Embiid - 11 points, 8 rebounds

In those drafts the risk was overvaluing production against amatuers so it can work both ways.

What I hear most when listening to GMs or scouts about what traits overperform it's character (work ethic), length (no disadvantage when transitioning to pros) and sometimes obscurity (international / lesser exposure). EG. Devin Booker elite work ethic, size for position and college bench player.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Read on Twitter

You know, it’s just hard for me to go against a guy who produced versus another who didn’t and they were both freshmen. Ignoring what’s real and imagining what could be real is dangerous. You can get a Giannis or Kwane Brown. I need real production not per 36 production, you are adding a significant amount of unknown variables that are not measured in that stat.

JJJ could be great; I’m ok with that if he does it on another team, however, Trae and Bagley I am not ok with it because they have shown you what they can do and to just ignore it over someone who hasn’t, is taking a big risk. Again, especially when they are all the same age. 6-9mos difference is no big deal.

I can see Bagley in a AD roll all day long. News flash, he is gonna get better than he is now as well. Coaches in college limit your game, see Booker, Jordan, Mitchell.

Bagley with a right hand and 3pt shot would be incredible. I consider Ayton just a little better because of size, however he doesn’t have Bagley’s natural fluidity. Bagley is easily the 3rd pick. The fourth is where I get worried, and that’s only if Trae can be guarded 1 on 1 on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

I’m ok with the top 3.

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

[BobbieL]

Read on Twitter

You know, it’s just hard for me to go against a guy who produced versus another who didn’t and they were both freshmen. Ignoring what’s real and imagining what could be real is dangerous. You can get a Giannis or Kwane Brown. I need real production not per 36 production, you are adding a significant amount of unknown variables that are not measured in that stat.

JJJ could be great; I’m ok with that if he does it on another team, however, Trae and Bagley I am not ok with it because they have shown you what they can do and to just ignore it over someone who hasn’t, is taking a big risk. Again, especially when they are all the same age. 6-9mos difference is no big deal.

I can see Bagley in a AD roll all day long. News flash, he is gonna get better than he is now as well. Coaches in college limit your game, see Booker, Jordan, Mitchell.

Bagley with a right hand and 3pt shot would be incredible. I consider Ayton just a little better because of size, however he doesn’t have Bagley’s natural fluidity. Bagley is easily the 3rd pick. The fourth is where I get worried, and that’s only if Trae can be guarded 1 on 1 on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

I’m ok with the top 3.

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

I do wonder that if the Suns do not get picks 1 or 2 - that they would be open to a trade back option which might give them the assets to than trade up to say get Carter and Trae Young.. Or maybe - trade back with a team do dump a contract to get a better player.

I guess Young or JJJ could be the pick at 3 but I see a big drop off from 2 to 3 and a myriad of choices depending on the team and its needs. I just am not sure the team to pawn a contract off on as not many have cap space. I guess say Suns pick 3 and Knight for Wesley Matthews and 5 because that gives the Suns cap space a year earlier.

[kingstyyyle]

I will bet anyone in this room that JJJ ends up a bust! Any takers? Y'all are crazy.

I also think Doncic will suck!

Message me. I will make a bet, and we can both agree on criteria, years, etc.

Crap I totally wanted Doncic till you said that.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

You know, it’s just hard for me to go against a guy who produced versus another who didn’t and they were both freshmen. Ignoring what’s real and imagining what could be real is dangerous. You can get a Giannis or Kwane Brown. I need real production not per 36 production, you are adding a significant amount of unknown variables that are not measured in that stat.

JJJ could be great; I’m ok with that if he does it on another team, however, Trae and Bagley I am not ok with it because they have shown you what they can do and to just ignore it over someone who hasn’t, is taking a big risk. Again, especially when they are all the same age. 6-9mos difference is no big deal.

I can see Bagley in a AD roll all day long. News flash, he is gonna get better than he is now as well. Coaches in college limit your game, see Booker, Jordan, Mitchell.

Bagley with a right hand and 3pt shot would be incredible. I consider Ayton just a little better because of size, however he doesn’t have Bagley’s natural fluidity. Bagley is easily the 3rd pick. The fourth is where I get worried, and that’s only if Trae can be guarded 1 on 1 on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

I’m ok with the top 3.

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

Yeah, I see project thrown around a ton in regards to JJJ here, but I see Bagley has a huge project unless you just are ok with such a limited game. Faried was a monster rebounder and finisher in college but just so limited.

They both may have things to work on but JJJ seems to have the skills that more seemlessly fit in today's game and things that are valued and make a big difference on how teams are able to play.

[JMac1]

You know, it’s just hard for me to go against a guy who produced versus another who didn’t and they were both freshmen. Ignoring what’s real and imagining what could be real is dangerous. You can get a Giannis or Kwane Brown. I need real production not per 36 production, you are adding a significant amount of unknown variables that are not measured in that stat.

JJJ could be great; I’m ok with that if he does it on another team, however, Trae and Bagley I am not ok with it because they have shown you what they can do and to just ignore it over someone who hasn’t, is taking a big risk. Again, especially when they are all the same age. 6-9mos difference is no big deal.

I can see Bagley in a AD roll all day long. News flash, he is gonna get better than he is now as well. Coaches in college limit your game, see Booker, Jordan, Mitchell.

Bagley with a right hand and 3pt shot would be incredible. I consider Ayton just a little better because of size, however he doesn’t have Bagley’s natural fluidity. Bagley is easily the 3rd pick. The fourth is where I get worried, and that’s only if Trae can be guarded 1 on 1 on a consistent basis at the NBA level.

I’m ok with the top 3.

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

Yeah, I see project thrown around a ton in regards to JJJ here, but I see Bagley has a huge project unless you just are ok with such a limited game. Faried was a monster rebounder and finisher in college but just so limited.

They both may have things to work on but JJJ seems to have the skills that more seemlessly fit in today's game and things that are valued and make a big difference on how teams are able to play.

Faried was a 6’7 hyper active offensive limited player, nothing like Bagley except motor. Amare/Bosh has way more in common with Bagley at the same age than Faried.

I think you guys better get accostumed to Bagley because if we pick 3..... and he is there I’m willing to bet we’d take him without question.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The hard part about judging college bigs is the level of competition. They face so many undersized guys or big stiffs you wonder how much of their production is mismatch based.

For a guy like Ayton its not as much of a concern because he's still gonna be bigger and more athletic than a lot of NBA bigs. Now Bagley thats more of a question, tons of guys will be longer than him, he'll be more athletic than some but the gap will close from what he's seen in college.

[bwgood77]

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

Yeah, I see project thrown around a ton in regards to JJJ here, but I see Bagley has a huge project unless you just are ok with such a limited game. Faried was a monster rebounder and finisher in college but just so limited.

They both may have things to work on but JJJ seems to have the skills that more seemlessly fit in today's game and things that are valued and make a big difference on how teams are able to play.

Faried was a 6’7 hyper active offensive limited player, nothing like Bagley except motor. Amare/Bosh has way more in common with Bagley at the same age than Faried.

I think you guys better get accostumed to Bagley because if we pick 3..... and he is there I’m willing to bet we’d take him without question.

I agree that I think he can perhaps be a poor man's better rebounding Amare. But Amare and his lack of D and ability to shoot 3s would hurt him more today. Also, if we had a D'Antoni, Nash, and a bunch of shooters, I'd probably be MUCH higher on Bagley.

I'll still be happy to have gotten him if he is who we end up with. He was #1 on my board coming into the year, but watching him I was just surprised at his defensive iq and limited offensive game. Love his motor though and think he'd have a strong work ethic. Just don't know about that bbiq. That's pretty important to me.

[JMac1]

The hard part about judging college bigs is the level of competition. They face so many undersized guys or big stiffs you wonder how much of their production is mismatch based.

For a guy like Ayton its not as much of a concern because he's still gonna be bigger and more athletic than a lot of NBA bigs. Now Bagley thats more of a question, tons of guys will be longer than him, he'll be more athletic than some but the gap will close from what he's seen in college.

I agree AND that issue is equal for Doncic Ayton and JJJ and all the rest. Bagley is agile as heck. He has a soft jump hook and a fluid stroke. Bagley didn’t play bully ball. He is raw and that’s a good thing, however, raw and productive unlike JJJ who is just raw and his production is based off of per.

I wouldn’t be upset if we ended up with him.

[thamadkant]

JJJ is the type of player that would impact the game without taking shots away from others.

A typical game I expect would be around;
10 ppg
7-8 rpg (he does less perimeter roaming)
2-3 bpg

And maybe a 3pt here and there.
While actively protecting the paint.

Something the Suns need badly.

[Sunsfan12]

It's actually bagleys lack of college production that worries me. I don't view points and rebounds as the only important stats. If that was the case calib swanigan should have been a top 10 pick last year. Bagley low block numbers, bad advanced defensive stats as a whole, and low FT% and fact he scored most of points in the paint are concerning numbers.

As much as its an uninspiring choice at coach a defensive specialist like clifford would be the best for his development. Just drill defensive principles into his head.

One question I have with people who want bagley is what position to you see him at in the pros? It PF what would you do with the suns roster to put enough shooting around him? If C where is the rim protection coming from?

Its kind of funny that really the best guy for him to be paired with would be a JJJ type player who could cover him on d but also shoot 3s to and give him space in the post.

Yeah, I see project thrown around a ton in regards to JJJ here, but I see Bagley has a huge project unless you just are ok with such a limited game. Faried was a monster rebounder and finisher in college but just so limited.

They both may have things to work on but JJJ seems to have the skills that more seemlessly fit in today's game and things that are valued and make a big difference on how teams are able to play.

Faried was a 6’7 hyper active offensive limited player, nothing like Bagley except motor. Amare/Bosh has way more in common with Bagley at the same age than Faried.

I think you guys better get accostumed to Bagley because if we pick 3..... and he is there I’m willing to bet we’d take him without question.

Bagely also projects as a worse defender than Amare/Bosh. So keep in mind that if his offensive game doesn’t translate (NBA bigs are much better rim protectors than college bigs) then it will be a wasted pick. To me he is much more like Jahlil Okafor than those two. If he doesn’t develop his right hand or a 3 point shot he will be a bust.