Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[cberry78]

Anybody have any insight into how Houston reacted in 1984 when they drafted Olajuwan #1 over Jordan? Jordan won ROY (obv.) and was second team all NBA as a rookie, while Olajuwan went on to become one of the best centers ever and is the second best player from that draft. Did the Rockets and their fans have buyeres remorse?

And no, I'm not starting any "Ayton is the next Olajuwan" comparisons, I see a lot of parellels (for their rookie seasons) and just want to know how the Rockets fans felt about drafting the second best player in arguably the deepest draft ever.

[bwgood77]

Anybody have any insight into how Houston reacted in 1984 when they drafted Olajuwan #1 over Jordan? Jordan won ROY (obv.) and was second team all NBA as a rookie, while Olajuwan went on to become one of the best centers ever and is the second best player from that draft. Did the Rockets and their fans have buyeres remorse?

And no, I'm not starting any "Ayton is the next Olajuwan" comparisons, I see a lot of parellels (for their rookie seasons) and just want to know how the Rockets fans felt about drafting the second best player in arguably the deepest draft ever.

No, I don't think they had much remorse. I'm sure if there were internet forums there would have been arguments, especially since they already had Sampson who they drafted the year before.

But Hakeem (or Akeem back then) was still the guy people talked about in college, and everyone wanted the premier big men. Chicago was trying to trade their pick for a C too.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Anybody have any insight into how Houston reacted in 1984 when they drafted Olajuwan #1 over Jordan? Jordan won ROY (obv.) and was second team all NBA as a rookie, while Olajuwan went on to become one of the best centers ever and is the second best player from that draft. Did the Rockets and their fans have buyeres remorse?

And no, I'm not starting any "Ayton is the next Olajuwan" comparisons, I see a lot of parellels (for their rookie seasons) and just want to know how the Rockets fans felt about drafting the second best player in arguably the deepest draft ever.

They were all good. Olajuwan was **** awesome and better than Jordan early in his career. If Sampson doesn't get his career derailed by injury they might have won multiple championships early in olajuwans career.

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[Damkac]

It's crazy there are people here who already gave up on Ayton and want to trade him. He is just rookie playing on a terrible team with no PG and still is having a great season. I understand everybody is overemotional after a nightmare season but no need to make Ayton a scapegoat. I feel like he is much more appreciated on GB than he is on Suns board.

[lilfishi22]

Who the hell has ever said Luka has"little" upside at any point. And yes, Ayton is #2. If you wanted to look at just post new year's #s, then okay, but the season started before that, so I don't see much logic in cutting it in half and acting like that somehow supports an argument regarding their play for the full year. Also, using DR and OR isn't apples to apples here when the Suns are the worst team of the group.

Dude, you were the one highlighting Ayton's last two month's (ie same parameters as the tweet) defensive improvement and all I did was highlight Young's last two month's offensive improvement. So if we're talking about recent improvements then Young is the #2 and arguably #1 rookie in the league. I ONLY commented on Young's recent improvement and I've always acknowledged Young wasn't very good to start off as we all did regarding Ayton's defense. But if the logic is that you CAN'T show improvement which I'm not allowed to because I'm apparently not allowed to consider anything other than an entire year then as far as I'm concerned Ayton is still a terrible defender and you can't use Ayton and Gobert in the same sentence.

This isn't being discussed enough. Just to put this in perspective for some who still seem to not be happy with his progress on defense.

70% is like worst in the league bad. That is what Ayton started at.

54-55% is what Gobert does. That's right, the past 2 months he is at Gobert's percentages (though on a few less defended possessions a game). That is a MASSIVE improvement in a very short period of time. He still gets lost a few possessions a game but he is improving in both and that's what you want.

So I'm not allowed to comment on Trae's massive improvement offensively but you're cool to talk about Ayton's near-Gobert level defense over the past 2 months (bit "arbitrary" isn't it?). Also which numbers should we be using?

I think people need to keep in mind that Trae, who is a phenomenal offensive talent, will be always be a giant defensive liability. Luka, FWIW, looks bad defensively post-trade since he's been tasked guarding SF. Marvin has been dreadful. ayton might suck on defense right now (though I think this is greatly exaggerated), he has shown enough glimpses of being above average in this department. Potentially elite. His DPRM rating is HIGHER than other rookie defensive specialists (Mo, Mitchel Robinson, Robert William) though lower than Jared/WCJ. Not bad for a "liability."

Anyway, the crux of my point is that Trae will never be average on D. He has a slight, narrow frame. He can't guard neither point guard nor shooting guard.The kid is literally one of the worse, if not the worse, defender in all of NBA (DPRM), regardless of position, for a reason. If he was playing the 90s, you could potential scheme around his defensive shortcoming, but not in today's league where practically ever team, not named the Suns, have at least two competent guards. I don't see a Trae Young - driven team will ever be competitive, beyond trying to secure a low rank seed on the playoff rung.

On a completely unrelated note (didn't want to post another tread), someone mentioned leaving or visiting his forum less frequently because of how toxic Suns fans have been towards ayton. I gotta agree. You know it's bad when the Reddit Subs is a better place to visit. Besides BW (who is the most objective) and a handful of other posters, the rest of posters on this forum really need to lighten up on ayton. It's just a game, people take it way too personal.

Nobody forgets that Trae will likely never been a factor defensively. The narrative is that his offense will be so transformational, not just individually but for his team, like a Steph Curry, that it would make him an overwhelmingly net positive player. I'm buying more and more stock of that with every game of his I watch. He won't be Steph level because he won't become even below average defensively and his offense while phenomenal probably won't reach the heights of Steph but I think he'll be in that Dame, prime IT tier and probably better than Kemba imo. Luka hasn't looked as good either since they traded away their only true starting level 5 and neither does most of their wings because the Mavs no longer have a defensive big to cover their mistakes (not that he was great this season on that end). But having a true defensive big is massive and really changes the defensive potential of a team. Bagley has shown flashes but not the consistency but I do think he can be very productive because of his motor and overall skillset.

[bwgood77]

Dude, you were the one highlighting Ayton's last two month's (ie same parameters as the tweet) defensive improvement and all I did was highlight Young's last two month's offensive improvement. So if we're talking about recent improvements then Young is the #2 and arguably #1 rookie in the league. I ONLY commented on Young's recent improvement and I've always acknowledged Young wasn't very good to start off as we all did regarding Ayton's defense. But if the logic is that you CAN'T show improvement which I'm not allowed to because I'm apparently not allowed to consider anything other than an entire year then as far as I'm concerned Ayton is still a terrible defender and you can't use Ayton and Gobert in the same sentence.



So I'm not allowed to comment on Trae's massive improvement offensively but you're cool to talk about Ayton's near-Gobert level defense over the past 2 months (bit "arbitrary" isn't it?). Also which numbers should we be using?

I think people need to keep in mind that Trae, who is a phenomenal offensive talent, will be always be a giant defensive liability. Luka, FWIW, looks bad defensively post-trade since he's been tasked guarding SF. Marvin has been dreadful. ayton might suck on defense right now (though I think this is greatly exaggerated), he has shown enough glimpses of being above average in this department. Potentially elite. His DPRM rating is HIGHER than other rookie defensive specialists (Mo, Mitchel Robinson, Robert William) though lower than Jared/WCJ. Not bad for a "liability."

Anyway, the crux of my point is that Trae will never be average on D. He has a slight, narrow frame. He can't guard neither point guard nor shooting guard.The kid is literally one of the worse, if not the worse, defender in all of NBA (DPRM), regardless of position, for a reason. If he was playing the 90s, you could potential scheme around his defensive shortcoming, but not in today's league where practically ever team, not named the Suns, have at least two competent guards. I don't see a Trae Young - driven team will ever be competitive, beyond trying to secure a low rank seed on the playoff rung.

On a completely unrelated note (didn't want to post another tread), someone mentioned leaving or visiting his forum less frequently because of how toxic Suns fans have been towards ayton. I gotta agree. You know it's bad when the Reddit Subs is a better place to visit. Besides BW (who is the most objective) and a handful of other posters, the rest of posters on this forum really need to lighten up on ayton. It's just a game, people take it way too personal.

Nobody forgets that Trae will likely never been a factor defensively. The narrative is that his offense will be so transformational, not just individually but for his team, like a Steph Curry, that it would make him an overwhelmingly net positive player. I'm buying more and more stock of that with every game of his I watch. He won't be Steph level because he won't become even below average defensively and his offense while phenomenal probably won't reach the heights of Steph but I think he'll be in that Dame, prime IT tier and probably better than Kemba imo. Luka hasn't looked as good either since they traded away their only true starting level 5 and neither does most of their wings because the Mavs no longer have a defensive big to cover their mistakes (not that he was great this season on that end). But having a true defensive big is massive and really changes the defensive potential of a team. Bagley has shown flashes but not the consistency but I do think he can be very productive because of his motor and overall skillset.

But they are putting the right people around him for defense...with Spellman, Collins, and currently a couple Cs who are decent defensively.

Think of Nash....you can't really underestimate how much a phenomenal passer changes everything and elevates your whole team a few levels.

I wonder if Sarver was a big Suns fan prior to owning them...I mean even having Nash for his first 8 years owning the team you would think it would be a high priority for him to have that floor leader, but if he watched the KJ and Kidd days too it's pretty crazy that he wouldn't want that. Shooting is a lot more important so Nash is the perfect model....of course Trae's favorite player who he tried to emulate.

[lilfishi22]

I think people need to keep in mind that Trae, who is a phenomenal offensive talent, will be always be a giant defensive liability. Luka, FWIW, looks bad defensively post-trade since he's been tasked guarding SF. Marvin has been dreadful. ayton might suck on defense right now (though I think this is greatly exaggerated), he has shown enough glimpses of being above average in this department. Potentially elite. His DPRM rating is HIGHER than other rookie defensive specialists (Mo, Mitchel Robinson, Robert William) though lower than Jared/WCJ. Not bad for a "liability."

Anyway, the crux of my point is that Trae will never be average on D. He has a slight, narrow frame. He can't guard neither point guard nor shooting guard.The kid is literally one of the worse, if not the worse, defender in all of NBA (DPRM), regardless of position, for a reason. If he was playing the 90s, you could potential scheme around his defensive shortcoming, but not in today's league where practically ever team, not named the Suns, have at least two competent guards. I don't see a Trae Young - driven team will ever be competitive, beyond trying to secure a low rank seed on the playoff rung.

On a completely unrelated note (didn't want to post another tread), someone mentioned leaving or visiting his forum less frequently because of how toxic Suns fans have been towards ayton. I gotta agree. You know it's bad when the Reddit Subs is a better place to visit. Besides BW (who is the most objective) and a handful of other posters, the rest of posters on this forum really need to lighten up on ayton. It's just a game, people take it way too personal.

Nobody forgets that Trae will likely never been a factor defensively. The narrative is that his offense will be so transformational, not just individually but for his team, like a Steph Curry, that it would make him an overwhelmingly net positive player. I'm buying more and more stock of that with every game of his I watch. He won't be Steph level because he won't become even below average defensively and his offense while phenomenal probably won't reach the heights of Steph but I think he'll be in that Dame, prime IT tier and probably better than Kemba imo. Luka hasn't looked as good either since they traded away their only true starting level 5 and neither does most of their wings because the Mavs no longer have a defensive big to cover their mistakes (not that he was great this season on that end). But having a true defensive big is massive and really changes the defensive potential of a team. Bagley has shown flashes but not the consistency but I do think he can be very productive because of his motor and overall skillset.

But they are putting the right people around him for defense...with Spellman, Collins, and currently a couple Cs who are decent defensively.

Think of Nash....you can't really underestimate how much a phenomenal passer changes everything and elevates your whole team a few levels.

I wonder if Sarver was a big Suns fan prior to owning them...I mean even having Nash for his first 8 years owning the team you would think it would be a high priority for him to have that floor leader, but if he watched the KJ and Kidd days too it's pretty crazy that he wouldn't want that. Shooting is a lot more important so Nash is the perfect model....of course Trae's favorite player who he tried to emulate.

That's good team building. It's like when the Mavs drafted Luka and paired him with a defensive rim running C. The Suns drafted a C and doesn't go out and get a PG?

[bwgood77]

Nobody forgets that Trae will likely never been a factor defensively. The narrative is that his offense will be so transformational, not just individually but for his team, like a Steph Curry, that it would make him an overwhelmingly net positive player. I'm buying more and more stock of that with every game of his I watch. He won't be Steph level because he won't become even below average defensively and his offense while phenomenal probably won't reach the heights of Steph but I think he'll be in that Dame, prime IT tier and probably better than Kemba imo. Luka hasn't looked as good either since they traded away their only true starting level 5 and neither does most of their wings because the Mavs no longer have a defensive big to cover their mistakes (not that he was great this season on that end). But having a true defensive big is massive and really changes the defensive potential of a team. Bagley has shown flashes but not the consistency but I do think he can be very productive because of his motor and overall skillset.

But they are putting the right people around him for defense...with Spellman, Collins, and currently a couple Cs who are decent defensively.

Think of Nash....you can't really underestimate how much a phenomenal passer changes everything and elevates your whole team a few levels.

I wonder if Sarver was a big Suns fan prior to owning them...I mean even having Nash for his first 8 years owning the team you would think it would be a high priority for him to have that floor leader, but if he watched the KJ and Kidd days too it's pretty crazy that he wouldn't want that. Shooting is a lot more important so Nash is the perfect model....of course Trae's favorite player who he tried to emulate.

That's good team building. It's like when the Mavs drafted Luka and paired him with a defensive rim running C. The Suns drafted a C and doesn't go out and get a PG?

No, just surround him with guys who can't shoot 3s. Should work....bunch of wings who need to take it to the rim.

[lilfishi22]

But they are putting the right people around him for defense...with Spellman, Collins, and currently a couple Cs who are decent defensively.

Think of Nash....you can't really underestimate how much a phenomenal passer changes everything and elevates your whole team a few levels.

I wonder if Sarver was a big Suns fan prior to owning them...I mean even having Nash for his first 8 years owning the team you would think it would be a high priority for him to have that floor leader, but if he watched the KJ and Kidd days too it's pretty crazy that he wouldn't want that. Shooting is a lot more important so Nash is the perfect model....of course Trae's favorite player who he tried to emulate.

That's good team building. It's like when the Mavs drafted Luka and paired him with a defensive rim running C. The Suns drafted a C and doesn't go out and get a PG?

No, just surround him with guys who can't shoot 3s. Should work....bunch of wings who need to take it to the rim.

And a few of whom can't even finish at the rim

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

That's good team building. It's like when the Mavs drafted Luka and paired him with a defensive rim running C. The Suns drafted a C and doesn't go out and get a PG?

No, just surround him with guys who can't shoot 3s. Should work....bunch of wings who need to take it to the rim.

And a few of whom can't even finish at the rim

If Josh Jackson shot 40% from 3 we'd hail him as our Lord and Savior.

[lilfishi22]

No, just surround him with guys who can't shoot 3s. Should work....bunch of wings who need to take it to the rim.

And a few of whom can't even finish at the rim

If Josh Jackson shot 40% from 3 we'd hail him as our Lord and Savior.

He would be LEGIT good if he can shoot that well with consistency from the 3. It would make him so much more dangerous

[SlovenianDragon]

And a few of whom can't even finish at the rim

If Josh Jackson shot 40% from 3 we'd hail him as our Lord and Savior.

He would be LEGIT good if he can shoot that well with consistency from the 3. It would make him so much more dangerous

Breh I would LEGIT be happy if he could make a lay-up...

[bwgood77]

If Josh Jackson shot 40% from 3 we'd hail him as our Lord and Savior.

He would be LEGIT good if he can shoot that well with consistency from the 3. It would make him so much more dangerous

Breh I would LEGIT be happy if he could make a lay-up...

Bro I'd be happy if he could make 80% of his dunk attempts.

[Bogyo]

Couldn't watch the game - was Ayton guarding Giannis?
How was his overall D, regardless of the first question?
Thanks

[sunsbum]

My favorite deandre ayton moment EVER

Watch on YouTube

[coughdropstuff]

I get as Suns fans, you guys have to support your rookie but...

Its time to seriously consider whether Ayton was a mistake at #1. Sure, Ayton may end up becoming a good player, but Luka should have been the overwhelming consensus #1 pick. The guy just screams generational talent.

You also have to scream fit, development, & role.

Being next to Booker would Doncic be utilized as much as he is in Dallas? Would they give him all reigns to the offense? We will never know.

This is why Russell is doing better on Nets then the Lakers. It is all about fit and opportunity.

Think if Ayton had a PG and higher usage rate. He would easily be avg 20/10 as a rookie. He will improve, and its just year 1. Hustle, defense improvement, and 3 point range will make him a superstar.

Fair enough.

Thanks for the response

[Saberestar]

Watch on YouTube

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

[Saberestar]

Couldn't watch the game - was Ayton guarding Giannis?
How was his overall D, regardless of the first question?
Thanks

He defended Giannis a good amount of time but we switched a lot on defense, so he was on other players too.

He played great, probably one of his best defensive games. He was very active and pushed (without fouling) more than he usually does to get better position on defense/rebounding.

If he plays like that every game you will never hear a complain about his defense again. I guarantee you that.

[Fo-Real]

Couldn't watch the game - was Ayton guarding Giannis?
How was his overall D, regardless of the first question?
Thanks

He defended Giannis a good amount of time but we switched a lot on defense, so he was on other players too.

He played great, probably one of his best defensive games. He was very active and pushed (without fouling) more than he usually does to get better position on defense/rebounding.

If he plays like that every game you will never hear a complain about his defense again. I guarantee you that.

Most of the season, if he played defense like he played in the last two games, he would have fouled out. The refs have let our boys play the last two games. The whole season any time we tried to play tough defense half the team was in danger of fouling out and we were forced to play soft and most of the guys just didnt play hard because of it. They get frustrated and dont play hard, but the last two, Lebron and Giannas didnt get many superstar calls and the Suns played hard!