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Booker Discussion, news and highlights

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Where would you rank last year's Booker on the 2004-05 team?

Best player
6
6%
2nd best
17
18%
3rd best
36
39%
4th best
24
26%
5th best
10
11%
 
Total votes: 93

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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#861 » by bwgood77 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:05 pm

Revived wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Revived wrote:TouchPassDario, you’ll be happy to learn that you aren’t the only person who thinks Booker isn’t a top 3 player on this team. There’s two of you now on this planet!



How awful of Booker to have not been winning games playing alongside the likes of Brandon Knight, Marqeese Chriss, Miles Plummer, Dragan Bender etc :lol:

And yeah he’s only suddenly winning games because of CP3....8-0 in the bubble totally didn’t happen.

Can't believe this empty stat narrative *STILL* exists. Like in the eyes of these people, Booker went from chucker to inefficient chucker to efficient empty stats to best player on crap team to KING of empty stats. He can't just be a good player

It’s funny to me how Beal doesn’t get the same label. Beal is the poor superstar on a bad team that needs to be saved while Booker on those worse Suns teams is an empty stats guy.

I get it that Booker isn’t an easily likable player if he’s not on your fave team. Kinda like Kobe. Book has a punchable face, and is maybe an **** off the court (made fun of some old dudes hooping at a gym blastin them on ig, put on a ski mask and went fighting with Ulis, sometimes rude to reporters, always looks mad and rarely even smiles etc but is also involved in charitable work as stuff as well too even if he has some overinflated ego that mostly all athletes do) but I don’t understand how his actual talent and skills can be denied.

The rosters that Booker played with his first 2-3 years in the league are just comically awful.


A lot of people said "Free Booker" as well.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#862 » by bwgood77 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:06 pm

King4Day wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter


All while another hate thread about Booker is taking place in the NBA forum.
Love it!


I'm surprised Tom Chambers hit 40% from 3.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#863 » by bwgood77 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:08 pm

TouchPassDario wrote:
Revived wrote:TouchPassDario, you’ll be happy to learn that you aren’t the only person who thinks Booker isn’t a top 3 player on this team. There’s two of you now on this planet!

I think he is at best, the 4th best player on the Sun's.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2058270#p89256780


How awful of Booker to have not been winning games playing alongside the likes of Brandon Knight, Marqeese Chriss, Miles Plummer, Dragan Bender etc :lol:

And yeah he’s only suddenly winning games because of CP3....8-0 in the bubble totally didn’t happen.


Sup, homie.

Booker has been the 4th most impactful player on the Suns this year. I think he’s probably the 2nd best (notice the different words), but it’s close factoring DA’s borderline elite defense.


It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#864 » by bwgood77 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:13 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I think that Book is gonna be in the MVP conversation this season.

Two times already player of the week in the Western Conference and he is getting better and better.

His current level of play is at the top of the league.

Wonder if he'll get the recognition though. CP3 being the bigger name and having the previous accolades could steal votes or negatively impact the narrative


I will be pretty surprised if he is in the conversation for MVP other than maybe getting some 5th place votes, since people vote for like top 5.

I can't see him being ahead of LeBron, Jokic, Embiid or Giannis. Possibly Harden if they finish in 1st (he won't win but may get votes) since he seems like the only guy playing every game..he had monster stats last night. Also if Portland finishes high, Lillard will certainly be getting votes.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#865 » by lilfishi22 » Tue Mar 2, 2021 10:36 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I think that Book is gonna be in the MVP conversation this season.

Two times already player of the week in the Western Conference and he is getting better and better.

His current level of play is at the top of the league.

Wonder if he'll get the recognition though. CP3 being the bigger name and having the previous accolades could steal votes or negatively impact the narrative


I will be pretty surprised if he is in the conversation for MVP other than maybe getting some 5th place votes, since people vote for like top 5.

I can't see him being ahead of LeBron, Jokic, Embiid or Giannis. Possibly Harden if they finish in 1st (he won't win but may get votes) since he seems like the only guy playing every game..he had monster stats last night. Also if Portland finishes high, Lillard will certainly be getting votes.

In my mind, we'll need to be a solid top 2 team in the league, he'll need a bunch of signature games and just a great month going into the playoffs in order to get some top 3 votes.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#866 » by Revived » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
Revived wrote:TouchPassDario, you’ll be happy to learn that you aren’t the only person who thinks Booker isn’t a top 3 player on this team. There’s two of you now on this planet!



How awful of Booker to have not been winning games playing alongside the likes of Brandon Knight, Marqeese Chriss, Miles Plummer, Dragan Bender etc :lol:

And yeah he’s only suddenly winning games because of CP3....8-0 in the bubble totally didn’t happen.


Sup, homie.

Booker has been the 4th most impactful player on the Suns this year. I think he’s probably the 2nd best (notice the different words), but it’s close factoring DA’s borderline elite defense.


It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.

And his turnovers as well. I think it perfectly illustrates the shortcomings of advanced statistics when it shows Booker ranking so low on those metrics. Anyone that watches or knows basketball and the elite players in the league that has to go up against Booker on a daily basis know that any metric showing him to be ranked anything lower than 2nd best on the team is a joke.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#867 » by TouchPassDario » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:37 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
Revived wrote:TouchPassDario, you’ll be happy to learn that you aren’t the only person who thinks Booker isn’t a top 3 player on this team. There’s two of you now on this planet!



How awful of Booker to have not been winning games playing alongside the likes of Brandon Knight, Marqeese Chriss, Miles Plummer, Dragan Bender etc :lol:

And yeah he’s only suddenly winning games because of CP3....8-0 in the bubble totally didn’t happen.


Sup, homie.

Booker has been the 4th most impactful player on the Suns this year. I think he’s probably the 2nd best (notice the different words), but it’s close factoring DA’s borderline elite defense.


It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.


Defense is so boring and hard to watch, it’s totally understanding why folks would think it is ridiculous that Booker hasn’t been a top3 Suns player this year.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#868 » by Revived » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:41 pm

TouchPassDario wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
Sup, homie.

Booker has been the 4th most impactful player on the Suns this year. I think he’s probably the 2nd best (notice the different words), but it’s close factoring DA’s borderline elite defense.


It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.


Defense is so boring and hard to watch, it’s totally understanding why folks would think it is ridiculous that Booker hasn’t been a top3 Suns player this year.

Yup that’s why Steph Curry and James Harden were always like #5 or #6 best players on their respective teams since their defense is garbage as well. I always had a low key feeling that Kevon Looney was a better player overall than Steph Curry.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#869 » by TouchPassDario » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:43 pm

Lol Harden and Curry are on another stratosphere on offense than Book. Harden is a decent, versatile defender when he tries. Both of them get a lot of steals. Curry has been a part of top top defenses.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#870 » by King4Day » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:58 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:I think that Book is gonna be in the MVP conversation this season.

Two times already player of the week in the Western Conference and he is getting better and better.

His current level of play is at the top of the league.

Wonder if he'll get the recognition though. CP3 being the bigger name and having the previous accolades could steal votes or negatively impact the narrative


Sadly, I believe minds are already made up. The MVP will be between Embiid, LeBron, and maybe Harden.
IF the Suns finish #1 in the West, having Paul will hurt Books chances IMO
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#871 » by Qwigglez » Tue Mar 2, 2021 11:58 pm

TouchPassDario wrote:James Jones deserves a ton of credit. He had built a tremendous roster around Booker to cover for his weaknesses. Paul/Bridges/Ayton are nearly the platonic ideal for who to put around Booker. If we could magically add a big wing who could handle and defend and shoot (PG type), that would be flawless. Jae and Frank and Dario and the Cams are all decent complements as well.

Booker is a dynamic offensive player. When he was surrounded by young and/or awful defenders at more than one other position it mitigated his effect on winning greatly. The young Suns growing up and getting some less than full strength/effort opponents in the bubble helped. As did Ricky and getting rid of Oubre (another “talent” that has bad warts, not nearly as good as Book offensively but a similar archetype).

If Booker was on Utah for Mitchell they would be better. If Booker was on Denver for Murray, they would be better. In that sense, as a number one/two option he is a very good/great player and has big impact, but he needs the structure around him more so than typical all stars who create the structure by their presence (like CP).


James Jones had done an amazing job of structuring the roster around Book, and even Ayton as well. Even better, he did it with players that aren't just at the downside of their career. I bring that up because we've seen numerous times where team executives either try to build around their budding star too early (Anthony Davis in New Orleans), or they trade/bring in washed players (Lebron first stint with the Cavs). I mentioned before the season, but I think James Jones will definitely be a top 3 candidate for Executive of the year, and likely wins it.

I used to think Beal was slightly ahead of Book on offense, but after watching some more Wizards games this year I don't agree with it anymore. I feel Mitchell is exploitable in the playoffs, and Murray isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is either. Definitely agree though that Book needs structure around him to be successful, however I'd put a lot of stars on that list, especially in the West.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#872 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:05 am

Both Harden and Curry are capable when they focus on D. Curry has good size for a PG and within the defensive scheme of the Warriors, his defence is definitely elevated. He does just enough to make the elite Warriors defense work. Likewise with Harden, for the longest time he was considered a poor defender because he had zero focus or motivation on that end but we've seen he can be decent on that end. Given what I've seen from Booker these past two years, I think he's on that same trajectory where he can be capable if he's focused on that end.

But I don't think Harden and Steph is significantly different to Booker on the defensive end because as shaq says, excellence is not a singular act, but a habit. You are what you repeatedly do. All three guys have shown singular acts of good to great defence but none of these guys really make it a habit of it.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#873 » by TouchPassDario » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:31 am

Qwigglez wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:James Jones deserves a ton of credit. He had built a tremendous roster around Booker to cover for his weaknesses. Paul/Bridges/Ayton are nearly the platonic ideal for who to put around Booker. If we could magically add a big wing who could handle and defend and shoot (PG type), that would be flawless. Jae and Frank and Dario and the Cams are all decent complements as well.

Booker is a dynamic offensive player. When he was surrounded by young and/or awful defenders at more than one other position it mitigated his effect on winning greatly. The young Suns growing up and getting some less than full strength/effort opponents in the bubble helped. As did Ricky and getting rid of Oubre (another “talent” that has bad warts, not nearly as good as Book offensively but a similar archetype).

If Booker was on Utah for Mitchell they would be better. If Booker was on Denver for Murray, they would be better. In that sense, as a number one/two option he is a very good/great player and has big impact, but he needs the structure around him more so than typical all stars who create the structure by their presence (like CP).


James Jones had done an amazing job of structuring the roster around Book, and even Ayton as well. Even better, he did it with players that aren't just at the downside of their career. I bring that up because we've seen numerous times where team executives either try to build around their budding star too early (Anthony Davis in New Orleans), or they trade/bring in washed players (Lebron first stint with the Cavs). I mentioned before the season, but I think James Jones will definitely be a top 3 candidate for Executive of the year, and likely wins it.

I used to think Beal was slightly ahead of Book on offense, but after watching some more Wizards games this year I don't agree with it anymore. I feel Mitchell is exploitable in the playoffs, and Murray isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is either. Definitely agree though that Book needs structure around him to be successful, however I'd put a lot of stars on that list, especially in the West.


As to these two, I feel like I agree with you, but Mitch was pretty damn good in the playoffs against Denver. Murray was amazing, too. I’m not sure how much of that was simply related to match-ups and bubble. I feel like Mikal would slow down either one of them much more than they did each other.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#874 » by TouchPassDario » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:33 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Both Harden and Curry are capable when they focus on D. Curry has good size for a PG and within the defensive scheme of the Warriors, his defence is definitely elevated. He does just enough to make the elite Warriors defense work. Likewise with Harden, for the longest time he was considered a poor defender because he had zero focus or motivation on that end but we've seen he can be decent on that end. Given what I've seen from Booker these past two years, I think he's on that same trajectory where he can be capable if he's focused on that end.

But I don't think Harden and Steph is significantly different to Booker on the defensive end because as shaq says, excellence is not a singular act, but a habit. You are what you repeatedly do. All three guys have shown singular acts of good to great defence but none of these guys really make it a habit of it.


I would say Steph’s made it a habit. He’s played lots of minutes for elite defenses. He benefited from elite defensive teammates, but one weak link sinks a defense.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#875 » by Slim Charless » Wed Mar 3, 2021 12:38 am

Book gonna get that 3 point championship again. Most loaded contest ever and he'll take home the title once again.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#876 » by Revived » Wed Mar 3, 2021 2:22 am

TouchPassDario wrote:Lol Harden and Curry are on another stratosphere on offense than Book. Harden is a decent, versatile defender when he tries. Both of them get a lot of steals. Curry has been a part of top top defenses.

Booker when he tries is decent too. Didn’t he block Anthony Edwards badly at the rim in the last game? The same Edwards who had the dunk of the season just few games ago and has been throwing down some mean ones all season long.

It wasn’t his only block either.



He’s still an overall bad player defensively but many of the great perimeter scorers usually are as you see with Curry, Harden, Luka, Beal etc.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#877 » by bwgood77 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:46 am

Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
Sup, homie.

Booker has been the 4th most impactful player on the Suns this year. I think he’s probably the 2nd best (notice the different words), but it’s close factoring DA’s borderline elite defense.


It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.

And his turnovers as well. I think it perfectly illustrates the shortcomings of advanced statistics when it shows Booker ranking so low on those metrics. Anyone that watches or knows basketball and the elite players in the league that has to go up against Booker on a daily basis know that any metric showing him to be ranked anything lower than 2nd best on the team is a joke.


Well, it just depends on what you are talking about. Offensively he is #1 or #2 if you choose Paul due to ball control and midrange clutch, etc.

But on defense he would rank last or near last, which is why, overall, he rates where he does.

Now when you surround him with great defensive players like CP3, Bridges, Crowder and Ayton, he can shine on a good team that can cover his weaknesses. Otherwise it's tough, as we know. We had pretty legit players last year but were 26-39 going into the bubble and even 34-39 after it.

He can certainly pile on points. But ball control and defense is very poor.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#878 » by Revived » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:55 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Revived wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.

And his turnovers as well. I think it perfectly illustrates the shortcomings of advanced statistics when it shows Booker ranking so low on those metrics. Anyone that watches or knows basketball and the elite players in the league that has to go up against Booker on a daily basis know that any metric showing him to be ranked anything lower than 2nd best on the team is a joke.


Well, it just depends on what you are talking about. Offensively he is #1 or #2 if you choose Paul due to ball control and midrange clutch, etc.

But on defense he would rank last or near last, which is why, overall, he rates where he does.

Now when you surround him with great defensive players like CP3, Bridges, Crowder and Ayton, he can shine on a good team that can cover his weaknesses. Otherwise it's tough, as we know. We had pretty legit players last year but were 26-39 going into the bubble and even 34-39 after it.

He can certainly pile on points. But ball control and defense is very poor.

Oh yeah for sure I think all the great offensive players who struggle defensively need elite defenders around them to be successful. For example, Steph needed Igoudala, Klay, Green etc to cover up his defensive weaknesses and Harden needed Tucker, Beverly, Capela etc to cover up his as well.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#879 » by bwgood77 » Wed Mar 3, 2021 3:56 am

Revived wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
It is interesting. A couple of the different advanced stat sites (RAPTOR and LEBRON) had him as like the 5th or 6th (or maybe it was 4th and 5th) best score..though the only reason he ranked that low on the team was because his defensive score was awful.


Defense is so boring and hard to watch, it’s totally understanding why folks would think it is ridiculous that Booker hasn’t been a top3 Suns player this year.

Yup that’s why Steph Curry and James Harden were always like #5 or #6 best players on their respective teams since their defense is garbage as well. I always had a low key feeling that Kevon Looney was a better player overall than Steph Curry.


Well Curry is one of the best offensive players ever. He's on a different planet than pretty much anyone else, and also has better ball control, ast/to, and defense.

Lillard better at the ball control and defense as well.

Booker actually did move up to 3rd, passing Bridges in the last couple of days, at least on the RAPTOR one...slightly ahead. Curry is by far #1 on the Warriors as is Lillard on the Blazers....though if you reduce how many minutes they need to have played, McCollum is first, but he was on fire...probably not sustainable.

Chris Paul is a legit top 15 guy though so he will always rank high because he's so good at everything and on both sides of the ball.
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Re: Booker Discussion, news and highlights 

Post#880 » by Qwigglez » Wed Mar 3, 2021 7:30 am

TouchPassDario wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
TouchPassDario wrote:James Jones deserves a ton of credit. He had built a tremendous roster around Booker to cover for his weaknesses. Paul/Bridges/Ayton are nearly the platonic ideal for who to put around Booker. If we could magically add a big wing who could handle and defend and shoot (PG type), that would be flawless. Jae and Frank and Dario and the Cams are all decent complements as well.

Booker is a dynamic offensive player. When he was surrounded by young and/or awful defenders at more than one other position it mitigated his effect on winning greatly. The young Suns growing up and getting some less than full strength/effort opponents in the bubble helped. As did Ricky and getting rid of Oubre (another “talent” that has bad warts, not nearly as good as Book offensively but a similar archetype).

If Booker was on Utah for Mitchell they would be better. If Booker was on Denver for Murray, they would be better. In that sense, as a number one/two option he is a very good/great player and has big impact, but he needs the structure around him more so than typical all stars who create the structure by their presence (like CP).


James Jones had done an amazing job of structuring the roster around Book, and even Ayton as well. Even better, he did it with players that aren't just at the downside of their career. I bring that up because we've seen numerous times where team executives either try to build around their budding star too early (Anthony Davis in New Orleans), or they trade/bring in washed players (Lebron first stint with the Cavs). I mentioned before the season, but I think James Jones will definitely be a top 3 candidate for Executive of the year, and likely wins it.

I used to think Beal was slightly ahead of Book on offense, but after watching some more Wizards games this year I don't agree with it anymore. I feel Mitchell is exploitable in the playoffs, and Murray isn't nearly as good as he thinks he is either. Definitely agree though that Book needs structure around him to be successful, however I'd put a lot of stars on that list, especially in the West.


As to these two, I feel like I agree with you, but Mitch was pretty damn good in the playoffs against Denver. Murray was amazing, too. I’m not sure how much of that was simply related to match-ups and bubble. I feel like Mikal would slow down either one of them much more than they did each other.


And this is where I bring up how well I feel James Jones has done building the team. Bridges to defend, but also Nader, maybe even some Jevon Carter.

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