ImageImageImage

2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed, batsmasher

BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#441 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 pm

Fo-Real wrote:I really dont think Chandler brings vet leadership. I was hoping he would but I have not seen an example of his leadership yet. We hoped he would have a positive influence on Len and that didnt happen. Hoped he could be a good vet leader for young bigs Queese and Dragan, and there seems to be no trace of it. Hell, he was here when we had the Morri bros, Dragic bros, Isiah, Archie and all of the locker room turmoil that was later reported wasnt stopped by some solid vet. When Kief choked Archie on the bench he was standing there watching the argument the whole time watching and saying nothing, only to help others pull Kief off Archie after he had already started to be physical. Vet leadership didnt help Bled from acting like an ass before being told not to come back and that he would be traded. Dragics rant to be traded went on when Chandler was our starting center. Queese getting into it with the assistant coach last year, I didnt hear about a heart to heart with Leader Chandler. WTF has he actually done to help this team leadership wise that is documented other than that fluff special about how Booker talks to him witch seemed so spun up to take our minds off how terrible we were as a basketball team? Cant cut him, but staunch vet leader isnt working out for him so far.


I never wanted to cut Alan Williams at 5.5m. I just knew it would be easier to cut Williams than trade Chandler or Dudley for cap space. Like the argument for keeping Ulis - "well you can always trade for a 2nd rounder>" My response - but what if you can't - you are stuck. So releasing Williams was practical.

That being said - part of this season is about winning. And I think Alan Williams will help the Suns more than Tyson Chandler. If Chandler would take a buyout of 12m - so the Suns can take that 1.6m and sign Williams - me, its not my money, I would approve of that.

locker room schmocker room. what matters on the court is important too and nobody is better on that bench than Sauce
User avatar
GoranTragic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,741
And1: 3,425
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
     

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#442 » by GoranTragic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Raptors now favorites to land Kawhi. DeRozan being sent to the Spurs. Thoughts?
Image
Future Username: DraganBlunder
#THETIMELINE
PhxLax
Sophomore
Posts: 232
And1: 186
Joined: Jul 02, 2017
   

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#443 » by PhxLax » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:01 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc
PhxLax
Sophomore
Posts: 232
And1: 186
Joined: Jul 02, 2017
   

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#444 » by PhxLax » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:03 pm

GoranTragic wrote:Raptors now favorites to land Kawhi. DeRozan being sent to the Spurs. Thoughts?


They need BOTH on same team to compete. Don't see how that's a plus for TOR as they getting a questionable-to-resign guy who has infamous injury history for a legit scoring threat all-star player. Wish they keep both and fig another way to trade for Leonard.
BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#445 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:04 pm

GoranTragic wrote:Raptors now favorites to land Kawhi. DeRozan being sent to the Spurs. Thoughts?


i like it for both teams

Raptors stay relevant in the East. I mean, they are clearly behind a healthy Celtics team but Kawhi might push them with the Sixers

DeRozan is a good piece for Pop. Maybe not the defense of Kawhi ofcourse but so far, the BEST player mentioned in trade talks. The Laker guys have a future but today, DeRozan is a good player. My guess, a bit of salary would have to go wuth Kawhi.
PhxLax
Sophomore
Posts: 232
And1: 186
Joined: Jul 02, 2017
   

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#446 » by PhxLax » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:04 pm

BobbieL wrote:I never wanted to cut Alan Williams at 5.5m. I just knew it would be easier to cut Williams than trade Chandler or Dudley for cap space. Like the argument for keeping Ulis - "well you can always trade for a 2nd rounder>" My response - but what if you can't - you are stuck. So releasing Williams was practical.

That being said - part of this season is about winning. And I think Alan Williams will help the Suns more than Tyson Chandler. If Chandler would take a buyout of 12m - so the Suns can take that 1.6m and sign Williams - me, its not my money, I would approve of that.

locker room schmocker room. what matters on the court is important too and nobody is better on that bench than Sauce


Not sure what's up w/ Alan Williams but he's still not claimed off waivers. Would be great to get him back on the cheap as a backup center....Chandler can be inked in as 3rd string center.
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 12,417
And1: 8,070
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#447 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:06 pm

PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc


Denver isn't trading Murray for Warren. Not in a million years.

Is Warren really a good contract? Honest question not being rhetorical. I really have a hard time gauging his value. If he was an RFA this summer would have got that same contract in an offer sheet? I guess maybe but I'm not 100% sure about that. He's a very efficient 2pt scorer and that has value but other than that I'm not sure if he does one other thing on the court at an above average level.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 10,788
And1: 6,681
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#448 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:08 pm

PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc

Jamal Murray is untouchable, like Booker for us.

I do not like at all the other trade (Warren for Faried + Hernangomez/Lyles).

Faried is done and those two young PFs are not good enough. We have already Bender and Chriss.
BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#449 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:08 pm

PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc


That trade is probably not happening but the reason the Suns would move Warren for Faried is not about this coming season - its to give them 11m more of cap space - well maybe 9 with Juancho - next summer. Moving Warren now could make them a team with max money next summer.

Warren is a nice player - I like him. But his defense is not strong, rebounding or three point shooting. He might not have a role on this roster. So playing the Ainge Long Range game - thinking ahead - might be good to move him this year if you can.
BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#450 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Saberestar wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc

Jamal Murray is untouchable, like Booker for us.

I do not like at all the other trade (Warren for Faried + Hernangomez/Lyles).

Faried is done and those two young PFs are not good enough. We have already Bender and Chriss.


Would you trade Klay Thompson for TJ Warren?

Maybe Kyrie Irving for TJ Warren?
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 12,417
And1: 8,070
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#451 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:14 pm

Saberestar wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc

Jamal Murray is untouchable, like Booker for us.

I do not like at all the other trade (Warren for Faried + Hernangomez/Lyles).

Faried is done and those two young PFs are not good enough. We have already Bender and Chriss.


I just put Faried on there as cap filler; I would just buy him out after trading for him. I guess it comes down to if they view Lyles or Hernangomez as upgrades over Bender and Chriss and more long term solutions. Plus shedding Warren's salary for next summer is a big part of it because it puts them into max room land. Now that's meaningless if they can't land a big time FA but if they can then it's well worth giving up Warren.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
ImNotMcDiSwear
Head Coach
Posts: 6,291
And1: 3,936
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#452 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Fo-Real wrote:I really dont think Chandler brings vet leadership. I was hoping he would but I have not seen an example of his leadership yet. We hoped he would have a positive influence on Len and that didnt happen. Hoped he could be a good vet leader for young bigs Queese and Dragan, and there seems to be no trace of it. Hell, he was here when we had the Morri bros, Dragic bros, Isiah, Archie and all of the locker room turmoil that was later reported wasnt stopped by some solid vet. When Kief choked Archie on the bench he was standing there watching the argument the whole time watching and saying nothing, only to help others pull Kief off Archie after he had already started to be physical. Vet leadership didnt help Bled from acting like an ass before being told not to come back and that he would be traded. Dragics rant to be traded went on when Chandler was our starting center. Queese getting into it with the assistant coach last year, I didnt hear about a heart to heart with Leader Chandler. WTF has he actually done to help this team leadership wise that is documented other than that fluff special about how Booker talks to him witch seemed so spun up to take our minds off how terrible we were as a basketball team? Cant cut him, but staunch vet leader isnt working out for him so far.


In general I agree, but I think Len's lack of development was all on him. Alex has improved in a number of respects, but the reason we selected him where we did is because we believed in his potential as a lob catcher and to an even greater degree as a shooter. He improved his body, became a better finisher, improved as a passer. But the shooting simply never materialized, and he lacks the physical tools to be an effective rim runner despite his tremendous size and athleticism - including but not limited to his bad hands.

The biggest thing is his touch around the rim. He has none. Little hook shots, tough layups, short jumpers - they're not there. Combine that with the fact that he also can't stretch the floor with his J and all you have is a rebounder/shot blocker. He's an elite rebounder and a solid rim protector but he'll always be limited offensively. Even if he does discover a shot, he'll never be an elite shooter (obviously). What kills you is the interior scoring - that's a talent, not something you can learn. Warren and Ayton are on the other end of that spectrum, having a completely intuitive ability to just put that ball in the bucket. When all your big can do is dunk, they gotta be elite rim runners AND game changing defenders a la Jordan and vintage Tyson. Alex is neither and so is limited to being a role player.

All that said, I still prefer Alex to Jusuf f'ing Nurkic and will never understanding why that useless lump of ego got the extension he did while Alex is still on the free agent sidelines. The biggest difference between the two is that defenses respect the offense that Nurk never shows, while nobody's afraid of goofy Alex Len. Maybe Alex is still waiting for the Steven Adams contract offer he wanted from the Suns. He doth believeth in himself too much, I suspect. Highlights of him shooting in an empty gym won't move the needle much when the ball so rarely touches the net in games.

.... As a comparison, my biggest concern about Bender when he came out was that the defense would translate, but the shooting wouldn't, and that would severely limit his NBA potential. Thank God, the shooting is there. The defense isn't what we'd hoped, frankly (though I do suspect he may end up a better rebounder than expected). He's great positionally and still getting better, but he doesn't actually make a lot of plays (steals, blocks) on that end. I regard him as a plus defender, not a great one. Dragan's value has to come from his ability to beat you on OFFENSE with his quick, high release and consistency from 3, while not giving you a target to exploit on defense. That and his passing. Love his passing, just wish he'd do it less. The biggest thing for him is remaining active on both ends and not disappearing. Be aggressive, GIVE AND TAKE CONTACT for f's sake, get loose balls, make plays. He does those things and he'll be a +/- darling who gets more wins than stats.
ImNotMcDiSwear
Head Coach
Posts: 6,291
And1: 3,936
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
 

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#453 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:20 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Just spit balling here but Denver is super thin at SF and has a bunch of PF's. Seems like them and Phoenix could do a roster balancing type move. Phoenix send them Warren and takes back Faried's expiring and gets someone like Lyles or Hernangomez. For denver it balances the roster and saves them on the lux tax this season. Not sure if it's enough for Phoenix but it also balances out the F spot and it would give them additional cap space next summer.


Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc


Denver isn't trading Murray for Warren. Not in a million years.

Is Warren really a good contract? Honest question not being rhetorical. I really have a hard time gauging his value. If he was an RFA this summer would have got that same contract in an offer sheet? I guess maybe but I'm not 100% sure about that. He's a very efficient 2pt scorer and that has value but other than that I'm not sure if he does one other thing on the court at an above average level.


Defensively - great hands a big body, switchable 1-3 and small 4s. Not a great defender, but really underrated on that end. There's reason to be optimistic about his 3 point shooting given his production in year 2. But it's not just the 2FG% efficiency, it's the lack of turnovers and the offensive rebounding that makes him even more efficient on offense than TS% would tell you.

It's just weird to me that an efficient 20 PPG guy could be so casually tossed around in trades by some. Guys like that just don't grow on trees.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 10,788
And1: 6,681
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#454 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:22 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
PhxLax wrote:
Don't know about Warren for Faried, cause Warren such a good contract to have. But if they give Jamaal Murray (yeah yeah, I know I know I can hear the displeasure from everybody here in how he's a shooter only blah blah blah) who has a great contract then I do it. Something like this....

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9hk32kc

Jamal Murray is untouchable, like Booker for us.

I do not like at all the other trade (Warren for Faried + Hernangomez/Lyles).

Faried is done and those two young PFs are not good enough. We have already Bender and Chriss.


Would you trade Klay Thompson for TJ Warren?

Maybe Kyrie Irving for TJ Warren?

Yeah, if they are signed on long-term contracts.
BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#455 » by BobbieL » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:26 pm

Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Jamal Murray is untouchable, like Booker for us.

I do not like at all the other trade (Warren for Faried + Hernangomez/Lyles).

Faried is done and those two young PFs are not good enough. We have already Bender and Chriss.


Would you trade Klay Thompson for TJ Warren?

Maybe Kyrie Irving for TJ Warren?

Yeah, if they are signed on long-term contracts.


so think of moving Warren this summer as possibly a way to create the cap space to be a player next summer. to me, its a Pat Riley or Danny Ainge move and would show me a bit about Ryan actually.

end of the day - is Warren - to use a baseball analogy - what is his WAR going to be this year. Dudley can give some of what WArren will give. but you get a max player next to Booker and Ayton, the right one - now you are moving up the rankings.
Saberestar
RealGM
Posts: 10,788
And1: 6,681
Joined: May 21, 2010

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#456 » by Saberestar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:33 pm

BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Would you trade Klay Thompson for TJ Warren?

Maybe Kyrie Irving for TJ Warren?

Yeah, if they are signed on long-term contracts.


so think of moving Warren this summer as possibly a way to create the cap space to be a player next summer. to me, its a Pat Riley or Danny Ainge move and would show me a bit about Ryan actually.

end of the day - is Warren - to use a baseball analogy - what is his WAR going to be this year. Dudley can give some of what WArren will give. but you get a max player next to Booker and Ayton, the right one - now you are moving up the rankings.

No need to trade Warren.

IF we need to create salary's space (I do not expect it) because an All Star FA want to sign with us I would prefer to trade Bender and Chriss.

These two together are making around the same money as Warren next season.
BobbieL
Head Coach
Posts: 7,380
And1: 2,738
Joined: Jun 24, 2009

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#457 » by BobbieL » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:12 am

Saberestar wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Saberestar wrote:Yeah, if they are signed on long-term contracts.


so think of moving Warren this summer as possibly a way to create the cap space to be a player next summer. to me, its a Pat Riley or Danny Ainge move and would show me a bit about Ryan actually.

end of the day - is Warren - to use a baseball analogy - what is his WAR going to be this year. Dudley can give some of what WArren will give. but you get a max player next to Booker and Ayton, the right one - now you are moving up the rankings.

No need to trade Warren.

IF we need to create salary's space (I do not expect it) because an All Star FA want to sign with us I would prefer to trade Bender and Chriss.

These two together are making around the same money as Warren next season.


don't even need to trade - I think renounce their rights possibly
User avatar
DarkHawk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,894
And1: 3,358
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#458 » by DarkHawk » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:40 am

Is this guy worth taking a look at?

Read on Twitter
King 4 a Day, fool for a life time
User avatar
DarkHawk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,894
And1: 3,358
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#459 » by DarkHawk » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:41 am

Read on Twitter
King 4 a Day, fool for a life time
User avatar
GoranTragic
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,741
And1: 3,425
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
     

Re: 2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued 

Post#460 » by GoranTragic » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:07 am

Read on Twitter


DeRozan about to get moved :o
Image
Future Username: DraganBlunder
#THETIMELINE

Return to Phoenix Suns