Suns Rotations

[MrMiyagi]

There's been a lot of talk lately about making roster moves, but I'd like to take the opportunity to talk about our rotations.

Our starting lineup has been Canaan, Booker, Ariza, Anderson and Ayton for 4 straight games.

Granted, sample sizes are small, but let's look at our best 5-man rotations so far this season:

1. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Ayton +137.5 in 3:33 played
2. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton +93.3 in 8:01 played
3. Canaan, Jackson, Warren, Ariza, Ayton +60.3 in 3:55 played
4. Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Anderson, Chandler +53.3 in 3:11 played
5. Canaan, Bridges, Jackson, Warren, Ayton +47.1 in 8:43 played
6. Booker, Bridges, Ariza, Anderson, Chandler +25 in 3:26 played
7. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +6.8 in 11:44 played
8. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Warren, Chandler +4.9 in 5:39 played
9. Canaan, Bridges, Ariza, Warren, Ayton +4.2 in 4:00 played
10. Canaan, Booker, Ariza, Anderson, Ayton -1.3 in 49:55 played

Our starting lineup has, by far, the most minutes played together and has played a little less than evenly with the opponent. It's not a bad lineup, but it's not our best, and what's worse is that it leaves our second unit without a good ball-handler.

So, I suggest that we look at starting Josh Jackson over Isaiah Canaan. Booker, Jackson, Ariza, Anderson and Ayton is our second best lineup with the 5th most time spent on the floor together (there are a few negative lineups that have more time spent together than the 10 I've listed).

What I've noticed so far with Koko is he likes to leave 1-2 of our starters on the floor when making substitutions, and has attempted to change who that was over the last few games. I believe he started with Ariza, then moved to Booker, and then Ayton (it should be noted, I do not have perfect recall, and I haven't gone that in-depth for this post). Starting Jackson lets us move to a couple of different proven positive lineups while subbing: Lineups 4, 5 and 9.

I think a big issue right now is that Josh is being asked to be the primary ball-handler in a second unit and he's not a primary facilitator. He's been good at cutting and making a pass off of those cuts, but he's not good at creating of the dribble. Canaan is much better suited as a back-up point guard, and in that role I feel he can initiate the offense much better than Josh and Crawford. Jackson being able to play off of Booker in the starting rotation and then Canaan with the second unit would probably help us cut down on turnovers that are really inflating our opponent's scores.

While I am uncertain this change will cause us to start winning more games, I think it should help at least close the margins. Of course, Booker's hamstring might delay these rotation experiments, but I think it helps to start looking at where our players are possibly excelling together, rather than nitpicking where they are flawed.

[lilfishi22]

If you take Canaan out of the starting line up and replacing him with JJ then JJ would be the secondary ball handler and that makes Point Book as the default offense creator which I think is where a portion of our trouble lies

I'll say this first and foremost, I don't like JJ as a primary or even secondary ball handler. I'm more comfortable with him with a high level scorer who can create offense (ie ayton/Booker) and another player (like Canaan) who can at least make plays. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Canaan is a starting caliber player or is even playing the PG position all that well but just from what I've seen with JJ having the ball in his hands, there's just more nuances about having the ball in his hands which Canaan just has a better understanding of.

I don't think either guys should be the secondary ball handler because Booker really should be that but if Booker has to be Point Book then it sort of boils down to Josh v Canaan for secondary ball handler. To me, if we're not looking at trades, I think Canaan (given this 4 game sample) is better as the secondary ball handler than JJ.

[bwgood77]

I thought the post was great, detailing the best units. I am not sure I am comfortable with JJ and Book in the backcourt. JJ does have good chemistry with Ayton but I think we would quickly have to start subbing.

I wish we still had Shaq (or even Reed) over Crawford, but hopefully Crawford helps in some respect.

[MrMiyagi]

I thought the post was great, detailing the best units. I am not sure I am comfortable with JJ and Book in the backcourt. JJ does have good chemistry with Ayton but I think we would quickly have to start subbing.

I wish we still had Shaq (or even Reed) over Crawford, but hopefully Crawford helps in some respect.

That's funny, they're our best 2-man combination. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2019/lineups/#lineups_2-man_::3

[bwgood77]

I thought the post was great, detailing the best units. I am not sure I am comfortable with JJ and Book in the backcourt. JJ does have good chemistry with Ayton but I think we would quickly have to start subbing.

I wish we still had Shaq (or even Reed) over Crawford, but hopefully Crawford helps in some respect.

That's funny, they're our best 2-man combination. https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2019/lineups/#lineups_2-man_::3

Yes, I thought that has been obvious, so that is a good argument for starting Jackson. I do agree that it might make more sense to start him, but honestly our best passer based on what we've seen this season might be Ayton, so maybe we should slowly begin to run the offense through him. He seems like a smart passer and doesn't turn it over much...I mean he has like a 4-1 ast/to ratio...look at guys like Embiid and Cousins from last year here.

[lilfishi22]

I thought the post was great, detailing the best units. I am not sure I am comfortable with JJ and Book in the backcourt. JJ does have good chemistry with Ayton but I think we would quickly have to start subbing.

I wish we still had Shaq (or even Reed) over Crawford, but hopefully Crawford helps in some respect.

As much as I don't think either guys move the needles, having a look at team stats, we're actually a slightly below average offensive team. It's our defense which is really hurting us and Shaq could've helped on that end. Just his hustle might help with some % of the fastbreak points we give up.

[rcc8884]

Have we seen a lineup of Booker, Bridges, Jackson, Ariza, Ayton or Booker, Bridges, Ariza, Warren, Ayton?

Just wondering as I think that these two lineups are our best lineups.

Also, looking at the best lineups, there is a heavy dose of Bridges even though he has not played that much

[jcsunsfan]

I would think Igor is looking at this.


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[gaspar]

FYI stats.nba.com has more accurate data than basketball-reference.

[bwgood77]

Looks like Bridges makes quite an impact. Best player combos

https://on.nba.com/2RfjnEd

[bwgood77]

Maybe Igor does look at this...Ryan Anderson in top three player combos

https://on.nba.com/2RgXmF0

Bridges in 11 of top 12.

[Fo-Real]

Bridges has seemed to make a difference when he is on the court. Since it seems that Cannon has no real positive effect on games (don't know stats numbers wise just eye test, he adds nothing really), I dont think it hurts to start Okobo a few games, STICK WITH HIM no matter the few growing pains, and see if he can get into a groove.

[RaisingArizona]

PG- Someone else not currently on roster
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Someone else not currently on roster
C- Ayton

[jcsunsfan]

PG- Someone else not currently on roster
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Someone else not currently on roster
C- Ayton

I would consider starting Bridges over Warren or Ariza. The numbers seem to indicate that would be a good idea. We also clearly need a back up center. Its time to shake the dust off of Bender and sit Chandler.

[darealjuice]

PG- Someone else not currently on roster
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Someone else not currently on roster
C- Ayton

I would consider starting Bridges over Warren or Ariza. The numbers seem to indicate that would be a good idea. We also clearly need a back up center. Its time to shake the dust off of Bender and sit Chandler.

I wouldn't take his on-off numbers so seriously. The vast majority of his playing time has been against end of bench scrubs when we're down 20. He's played like 10 minutes of non-blowout basketball so far. I want him to get more minutes, but it's way premature for him to be handed a starting job.

[jcsunsfan]

PG- Someone else not currently on roster
SG- Booker
SF- Warren
PF- Someone else not currently on roster
C- Ayton

I would consider starting Bridges over Warren or Ariza. The numbers seem to indicate that would be a good idea. We also clearly need a back up center. Its time to shake the dust off of Bender and sit Chandler.

I wouldn't take his on-off numbers so seriously. The vast majority of his playing time has been against end of bench scrubs when we're down 20. He's played like 10 minutes of non-blowout basketball so far. I want him to get more minutes, but it's way premature for him to be handed a starting job.

I don't put a lot of stock in the on/off numbers. I just look at what Bridges actually does on the court when he plays. He does all the little things to make his team better. He plays offense and defense and is highly efficient. To me, he simply looks like a better player than Ariza at this moment. Now that is in a very small window, but good grief, we are losing huge, you might as well take a look.

[darealjuice]

I would consider starting Bridges over Warren or Ariza. The numbers seem to indicate that would be a good idea. We also clearly need a back up center. Its time to shake the dust off of Bender and sit Chandler.

I wouldn't take his on-off numbers so seriously. The vast majority of his playing time has been against end of bench scrubs when we're down 20. He's played like 10 minutes of non-blowout basketball so far. I want him to get more minutes, but it's way premature for him to be handed a starting job.

I don't put a lot of stock in the on/off numbers. I just look at what Bridges actually does on the court when he plays. He does all the little things to make his team better. He plays offense and defense and is highly efficient. To me, he simply looks like a better player than Ariza at this moment. Now that is in a very small window, but good grief, we are losing huge, you might as well take a look.

I don't get that mentality. We lost to 3 of the best teams in the West, not the Hawks, Kings, and Knicks. Denver has the best home court advantage in the league, the Warriors are arguably the best team in history, and LeBron and the Lakers were not going to start their season at 0-4. Losing big sucks, but unfortunately teams that would consider a 35 win season as successful are prone to getting blown out by really good teams. I don't know if shooting the lights out against Dallas changed everyone's expectations, but Suns fans as a whole need to step back from the cliff.

If Bridges is good enough to start over Ariza then start bumping up his minutes to prove it and win the job. You don't go from riding pine and playing 90% of your minutes down 20 against scrubs to starting this early in the season, especially when our problems are far more attributable to Canaan and Anderson than Ariza.

[Golanator]

After 6 games I'm ready to see this (when Booker returns)

Okobo (30) | Canaan* (10) | Booker (8)
Booker (28) | Jackson (15) | Bridges (5)
Ariza (24) | Bridges (21) | Jackson (3)
Anderson (20) | Warren (28)
Ayton (34) | Holmes (14)

*we'll see for how much longer, if he continues to suck make Melton the backup PG

Daniels, Bender, Chandler DNP

Booker 36
Ayton 34
Okobo 30
Warren 28
Bridges 26
Ariza 24
Anderson 20
Jackson 18
Holmes 14
Canaan/Melton 10

[No Koko]

I think Chandler's "veteran experience" has really rubbed off the wrong way on this team the past few years. That guy gives absolutely zero **** about defense, and he is the veteran "defensive anchor" and former DPOY that was apparently given all that money to help show the young guys how to play. I think his laziness and disengagement on defense has set a horrible example to everybody else as far as how much intensity to play with on D, and I really cringe at the thought of Ayton watching Chandler from the bench and thinking that is a mentor he should look up to. With all that "veteran experience" money I can honestly say Chandler hasn't done a damn thing good here. His play on the court is pathetic and I think his veteran leadership is a pathetic joke too, as he did nothing for Alex Len and he would NEVER scream at any players on this team to play some D. That's the veteran leader we need, that's what Patrick Beverley would do. But Chandler is a washed up corpse. Not only should Holmes play ahead of Chandler but Chandler should just retire and never play again, I'm sick of watching his pathetic effort.


B-b-b-b-but hes a veteran so Igor can't bench him

[Scutt]

Our starting line up needs to be Okobo, Booker, Bridges, Warren, and Ayton.

Chandler, Anderson, and Crawford need to be glued to the bench with DNP CD all year. Ariza needs to come off the bench in limited minutes.

The most frustrating part about Kokos rotations are the lack of creativeness and ability to adjust on the fly, two things that everyone said would be his strengths. He reminds me of Gentry and Hornacek in a way that it seems like he comes up with rotations before the game and just sticks with them no matter what.

So far Koko has been nothing but a hipocrite with his talk of players having to earn their roles and minutes. Apparently that only applies to the young guys. Washed up scrubs like Chandler, Ariza, Anderson, and Crawford continue to get stay on the floor after making terrible mistakes and playing like hot garbage.

Either Koko is being Sarvers puppet or he really isn't that smart of a coach. Either way we are screwed.