Hunt For An ARIZAnable - Trade is OUBRE! - Final Poll results

[alamin330]

Also I think if suns don’t get to pick Zion in the draft the pick should be traded for a star. No offense to Canada or Canadians but I don’t trust them if they’re not named Steve Nash. Jamal Murray looks ok but he seems to be molding into the shape of the next Jamal Crawford/ Lou Williams type of player. RJ Barrett might be good but he might also be Anthony Bennett or Wiggins. Suns have enough young guys with ifs. They need proven nba players. For all the posters on here wanting to continue hoarding picks and drafting guys I say booker will ask out if suns don’t build a better team around him and ayton. Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

Sure I'm down to trade the pick because I'm just not that high on this draft. But I think it's dangerous to go in with a mindset of 'we have to trade this pick' because it takes two to tango in the trade market and it's possible nothing is there worth trading for and it's worse to force it for a subpar player.

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Of course. We shouldn’t force anything. But if a 5th pick can net Ray Allen we should definitely be able to get someone on that level too

[bwgood77]

I think Warren does not fit on this team. He should be traded. With Kelly and Devin both being ball stoppers there’s no room for warren also when you have other needs on the team. Oubre is doing what tj was supposed to do to start the year, being a 6th man. Devin is too good a player to have a tj type player who only looks to score as a first second and third option. The team needs more role players and less me players. Tj, bender, the bucks pick and okobo for kemba.

? I actually kind of agree with the first part of this post but then you suggest they trade him for a ball dominant scorer who more importantly they would only have contractual control over for around 35 meaningless games...

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ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

[darealjuice]

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm not that high on Oubre, but TJ and Oubre are about equal when it comes to being black holes on offense. TJ's style can be especially frustrating because he takes such difficult floaters and ends up falling almost every time he drives, so it's an instant advantage fast break when he misses. I think Oubre's more than a marginally better defensive player than TJ too, and while TJ's been more efficient on the season he's only at 52.4 TS% since the Oubre trade compared to Oubre's 55.9 TS%.

[Scutt]

? I actually kind of agree with the first part of this post but then you suggest they trade him for a ball dominant scorer who more importantly they would only have contractual control over for around 35 meaningless games...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

Im so glad someone else noticed that about Oubre. The last couple of games he has gotten pretty brazen about it. Though he came in and got to play big mintutes in a tight 4th quarter on his very first game with us, so I get the feeling James Jones is giving him the green light. Our media is pushing him so hard that I watch games on mute now.

[bwgood77]

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm not that high on Oubre, but TJ and Oubre are about equal when it comes to being black holes on offense. TJ's style can be especially frustrating because he takes such difficult floaters and ends up falling almost every time he drives, so it's an instant advantage fast break when he misses. I think Oubre's more than a marginally better defensive player than TJ too, and while TJ's been more efficient on the season he's only at 52.4 TS% since the Oubre trade compared to Oubre's 55.9 TS%.

Yeah, I know in this smaller sample size Oubre has looked better than usual offensively and TJ has had some tough games as of late. I do think TJ needs to try and stop falling down as much so he can get back more quickly on defense...and also think it might help him get more foul calls, since, if refs thinks he falls down every time they may overlook many fouls when they may be the cause of some of the times he falls. It's kind of a habit thing, and maybe in part to what EJ says, that it's to break his fall and not come down on someone's foot or tweak his ankle.

He seems to have either taken more difficult floaters as of late or they just are falling less (because often he hits ones you never think he will). But most of TJ's shots come when he gets the ball late in the shot clock as the option at that point to score and not becoming a black hole and taking up the entire shot clock or bad shots earlier, as Oubre can do.

But the main point of the post was thinking of trading him no matter what and signing KO no matter what it takes doesn't seem like the right approach. If you get good value contract on KO and can sign others before re-signing him, fine, and if that makes TJ expendable, fine, but given where we are, and our cap space, keep the options open going into the summer.

[suns12345]

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm not that high on Oubre, but TJ and Oubre are about equal when it comes to being black holes on offense. TJ's style can be especially frustrating because he takes such difficult floaters and ends up falling almost every time he drives, so it's an instant advantage fast break when he misses. I think Oubre's more than a marginally better defensive player than TJ too, and while TJ's been more efficient on the season he's only at 52.4 TS% since the Oubre trade compared to Oubre's 55.9 TS%.

Yeah, I know in this smaller sample size Oubre has looked better than usual offensively and TJ has had some tough games as of late. I do think TJ needs to try and stop falling down as much so he can get back more quickly on defense...and also think it might help him get more foul calls, since, if refs thinks he falls down every time they may overlook many fouls when they may be the cause of some of the times he falls. It's kind of a habit thing, and maybe in part to what EJ says, that it's to break his fall and not come down on someone's foot or tweak his ankle.

He seems to have either taken more difficult floaters as of late or they just are falling less (because often he hits ones you never think he will). But most of TJ's shots come when he gets the ball late in the shot clock as the option at that point to score and not becoming a black hole and taking up the entire shot clock or bad shots earlier, as Oubre can do.

But the main point of the post was thinking of trading him no matter what and signing KO no matter what it takes doesn't seem like the right approach. If you get good value contract on KO and can sign others before re-signing him, fine, and if that makes TJ expendable, fine, but given where we are, and our cap space, keep the options open going into the summer.

That's an interesting point about TJ falling down and igniting the fast break. I wonder if there are number out there on fast break points or % when TJ shoots it

[alamin330]

? I actually kind of agree with the first part of this post but then you suggest they trade him for a ball dominant scorer who more importantly they would only have contractual control over for around 35 meaningless games...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I just think Kelly has more potential for the future compared to warren. Oubre has shown he can be a 6th man. That’s what we need if we become a playoff team, a quality 6th man. I don’t remember how TJ was playing off the bench but he’s better starting and that’s not a good fit with booker and ayton. If he started passing more and setting guys up he would be someone who we should keep but he doesn’t and don’t think he ever will

[bwgood77]

I'm not that high on Oubre, but TJ and Oubre are about equal when it comes to being black holes on offense. TJ's style can be especially frustrating because he takes such difficult floaters and ends up falling almost every time he drives, so it's an instant advantage fast break when he misses. I think Oubre's more than a marginally better defensive player than TJ too, and while TJ's been more efficient on the season he's only at 52.4 TS% since the Oubre trade compared to Oubre's 55.9 TS%.

Yeah, I know in this smaller sample size Oubre has looked better than usual offensively and TJ has had some tough games as of late. I do think TJ needs to try and stop falling down as much so he can get back more quickly on defense...and also think it might help him get more foul calls, since, if refs thinks he falls down every time they may overlook many fouls when they may be the cause of some of the times he falls. It's kind of a habit thing, and maybe in part to what EJ says, that it's to break his fall and not come down on someone's foot or tweak his ankle.

He seems to have either taken more difficult floaters as of late or they just are falling less (because often he hits ones you never think he will). But most of TJ's shots come when he gets the ball late in the shot clock as the option at that point to score and not becoming a black hole and taking up the entire shot clock or bad shots earlier, as Oubre can do.

But the main point of the post was thinking of trading him no matter what and signing KO no matter what it takes doesn't seem like the right approach. If you get good value contract on KO and can sign others before re-signing him, fine, and if that makes TJ expendable, fine, but given where we are, and our cap space, keep the options open going into the summer.

That's an interesting point about TJ falling down and igniting the fast break. I wonder if there are number out there on fast break points or % when TJ shoots it

He typically gets back to the other side before any play is run, and there is not usually a fast break considering when he takes it to the rim and misses, the rest or our team gets back immediately while some of the other team is crashing the boards. But he need not take time to try and argue a non call, but that goes for our whole team, and he's mostly cut that out after his early techs.

[bwgood77]

ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I just think Kelly has more potential for the future compared to warren. Oubre has shown he can be a 6th man. That’s what we need if we become a playoff team, a quality 6th man. I don’t remember how TJ was playing off the bench but he’s better starting and that’s not a good fit with booker and ayton. If he started passing more and setting guys up he would be someone who we should keep but he doesn’t and don’t think he ever will

He probably won't, though his assists have gone up each year. But if that is the qualm, KO isn't any better in that regard. Defensively he can be better though. We probably don't need both though, because Bridges will be better than both, and is already the better passer and defender and his shooting will come around. Though Jackson is the first one that likely probably needs to go unless he starts improving....of course he probably doesn't have much trade value.

[WeekapaugGroove]

There's no one on this roster that HAS to be here next year. Even booker and ayton would be on the table for certain trades but obviously it's likely those two are here long term. After those two I'd rank Bridges as the 3rd most important guy. Not nessesarily the 3rd best player but with his contact and the fact he brings so many little things you need next to booker and ayton he would only be available in a crazy good trade.

After that it's fair game. While not a 100% nessesary I can buy the notion that the roster could make more sense with one of Warren oubre or Jackson gone. I'd rank them in that order personally. Hell if oubre gets a crazy contract offer the decision might get made for the suns because there should be a price on him they are willing to walk away and use the money elsewhere. But if he returns on a reasonable deal then maybe Warren is the guy you trade because he could fetch you a much better player in return than Jackson.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[darealjuice]

Yeah, I know in this smaller sample size Oubre has looked better than usual offensively and TJ has had some tough games as of late. I do think TJ needs to try and stop falling down as much so he can get back more quickly on defense...and also think it might help him get more foul calls, since, if refs thinks he falls down every time they may overlook many fouls when they may be the cause of some of the times he falls. It's kind of a habit thing, and maybe in part to what EJ says, that it's to break his fall and not come down on someone's foot or tweak his ankle.

He seems to have either taken more difficult floaters as of late or they just are falling less (because often he hits ones you never think he will). But most of TJ's shots come when he gets the ball late in the shot clock as the option at that point to score and not becoming a black hole and taking up the entire shot clock or bad shots earlier, as Oubre can do.

But the main point of the post was thinking of trading him no matter what and signing KO no matter what it takes doesn't seem like the right approach. If you get good value contract on KO and can sign others before re-signing him, fine, and if that makes TJ expendable, fine, but given where we are, and our cap space, keep the options open going into the summer.

Yeah I think part of it is that he doesn't want to land on anyone's feet in traffic and another part is that he's trying to avoid contact a bit to get his shot off, so he gets a bit off balance. I think they're both guilty of holding the ball and forcing up bad shots, but Oubre probably pounds the ball a bit more.

I agree with the main point. I just think that Oubre will be worthwhile to keep around and should command less than most people here assume, while TJ is looking more trade-able with our depth at SF and him being our most valuable non-draft pick trade asset.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I know in this smaller sample size Oubre has looked better than usual offensively and TJ has had some tough games as of late. I do think TJ needs to try and stop falling down as much so he can get back more quickly on defense...and also think it might help him get more foul calls, since, if refs thinks he falls down every time they may overlook many fouls when they may be the cause of some of the times he falls. It's kind of a habit thing, and maybe in part to what EJ says, that it's to break his fall and not come down on someone's foot or tweak his ankle.

He seems to have either taken more difficult floaters as of late or they just are falling less (because often he hits ones you never think he will). But most of TJ's shots come when he gets the ball late in the shot clock as the option at that point to score and not becoming a black hole and taking up the entire shot clock or bad shots earlier, as Oubre can do.

But the main point of the post was thinking of trading him no matter what and signing KO no matter what it takes doesn't seem like the right approach. If you get good value contract on KO and can sign others before re-signing him, fine, and if that makes TJ expendable, fine, but given where we are, and our cap space, keep the options open going into the summer.

Yeah I think part of it is that he doesn't want to land on anyone's feet in traffic and another part is that he's trying to avoid contact a bit to get his shot off, so he gets a bit off balance. I think they're both guilty of holding the ball and forcing up bad shots, but Oubre probably pounds the ball a bit more.

I agree with the main point. I just think that Oubre will be worthwhile to keep around and should command less than most people here assume, while TJ is looking more trade-able with our depth at SF and him being our most valuable non-draft pick trade asset.

I think everyone will look better with a PG. But I do think Igor also probably wants people to be aggressive on offense and take open shots or move the ball, and then once the shot clock gets into single digits (it does far too often), people need to be aggressive so we don't get a shot clock violation.

[AtheJ415]

? I actually kind of agree with the first part of this post but then you suggest they trade him for a ball dominant scorer who more importantly they would only have contractual control over for around 35 meaningless games...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm fully convinced that people just don't even bother to look at Oubre's career numbers. They're bad. He's promising from a skills perspective, but he is so terribly far from a player who needs to be getting big money. That's how you end up with Wiggins.

[darealjuice]

ya I just realized what I wrote didn’t make sense. I was trying to find a trade for us to get kemba. Because I also think the suns need a guy who knows how to score when shots are not falling or make defenses play honest. But I do think even trading tj alone for 2 or 3 quality guys who know their roles as defenders or 3 pt specialists would help this team tremendously. Tj has a 6th man game. We’re trying to make him something he’s not. He doesn’t make the right plays most times. He’s always trying to score and he’s very good at it but it makes defending the team so much easier when there’s no ball movement.

Kelly should be resigned at all costs this summer even at the expense of Holmes. Holmes is limited offensively and too small defensively. 4 rebounds a game as a big is not going to cut it even if it’s off the bench.
I love what Holmes brings off the bench but there are better backup options and I’m definitely not choosing an energy guy over Kelly Oubre. That’s like choosing Lou Amundson over Barbosa.

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm fully convinced that people just don't even bother to look at Oubre's career numbers. They're bad. He's promising from a skills perspective, but he is so terribly far from a player who needs to be getting big money. That's how you end up with Wiggins.

Oubre's career numbers showed solid improvement every season though..? No one is talking about giving him anywhere near max money either.

[bwgood77]

TJ doesn't fit but KO should be resigned at all costs? TJ is better at pretty much everything offensively (far more efficient) and even passes more (neither passes much though)...KO may be a marginally better defender, with his length, but he is lower iq, comes up with fewer steals and plays more out of control.

Here are their numbers if you don't watch them often....

http://bkref.com/tiny/1t8ll

Now I'm not opposed to trading anyone, or switching lineups, though I'd stand pat with our roster and talent right now given this season is lost and we need to develop our players and continue to figure things out...but mainly because we have a lot of cap space. If we cannot address needs in FA (and depending on if we keep guys like Oubre and Holmes) then we can look at trade possibilities and likely have more options anyway.

But the notion of TJ not fitting and KO needing to be re-signed at all costs sounds a little ridiculous. KO has played a bit better and more consistent post trade, and is probably even more motivated going into free agency, but he is taking entire possessions over...even bringing ball up and not letting anyone touch it.

I'm fully convinced that people just don't even bother to look at Oubre's career numbers. They're bad. He's promising from a skills perspective, but he is so terribly far from a player who needs to be getting big money. That's how you end up with Wiggins.

Oubre's career numbers showed solid improvement every season though..? No one is talking about giving him anywhere near max money either.

I have no clue what he could be offered. Last offseason with the market he probably gets the QO..or very little...this year with all the cap space, who knows? I won't be surprised if the Kings (looking for a SF) offer him some insane contract like 4/70 or something hoping we won't match...they tried with Lavine last summer and they didn't even have a hole at his position.

[Saberestar]

I am OK giving Oubre a long-term contract as a scoring wing coming from the bench, but I wouldn't pay him a superhigh salary.

Given his limitations and that we have already some good players at his position I would offer him at most $30M / 4 years.

That offer can change a bit before the end of the season.

[lilfishi22]

All I know is this, I don't think you can keep all 3 wings (Mikal we keep for sure) going forward. I like all 3 guys but I just don't think it makes sense to keep and pay all of them. There's too much positional overlap between KO and the other two. KO seems to have all the weaknesses of both JJ and TJ but I feel like the best argument for KO over the other is his fit with Ayton and Booker. He's a better and more willing spot up 3PT shooter than TJ (TJ still shows some hesitance shooting the 3) and JJ (straight up poor shooter), he takes care of the ball and I think he provides the dynamic play that JJ does without the passing although JJ's passing can be largely replaced if we bring in our starting level PG (thus making his passing a bit of a luxury).

Pure scoring: TJ
Passing: JJ
Defense: JJ
3PT shooting: TJ (I still believe in it)
Fit with Ayton/Booker: KO

So I could see an argument to prioritize him over the other two, the problem is that I don't see any of them being starters on this team because I don't think any of those 3 players are best as a 4. A couple weeks ago, I was against bringing back KO in the offseason and I'm still leaning towards that direction largely because of how much he could cost and I don't really see him as a starter on this team (PG, Booker, Bridges, OUBRE?!, Ayton) so can you really have 2-3 wings, who get paid around $9-15m coming off the bench? Is that the best use of salary?

[darealjuice]

I'm fully convinced that people just don't even bother to look at Oubre's career numbers. They're bad. He's promising from a skills perspective, but he is so terribly far from a player who needs to be getting big money. That's how you end up with Wiggins.

Oubre's career numbers showed solid improvement every season though..? No one is talking about giving him anywhere near max money either.

I have no clue what he could be offered. Last offseason with the market he probably gets the QO..or very little...this year with all the cap space, who knows? I won't be surprised if the Kings (looking for a SF) offer him some insane contract like 4/70 or something hoping we won't match...they tried with Lavine last summer and they didn't even have a hole at his position.

That's a good point, and if he continues playing like the past ~6 games then he might have a case for some money. I do think Lavine showed a bit more than Oubre has despite his injury though, and we don't have as much invested in Oubre considering Lavine was a big piece in the Butler trade.

Honestly if a team wants to give him big long-term money, let them. Free up our cap space, clear up our log jam, and let an opposing team take the overpaid player. It's really a win-win. Good teams don't pay $15M a year for role players.

[Damkac]

Hawks
Gets Anderson, Jackson and Suns top 5 protected pick
For Lin, Dedmon and Prince

Jazz
Gets Lin
For Rubio

Pelicans
Gets Dedmon and Prince
For Mirotic

Suns
Gets Rubio and Mirotic
For Anderson, Jackson and Suns top 5 protected pick

[bwgood77]

Hawks
Gets Anderson, Jackson and Suns top 5 protected pick
For Lin, Dedmon and Prince

Jazz
Gets Lin
For Rubio

Pelicans
Gets Dedmon and Prince
For Mirotic

Suns
Gets Rubio and Mirotic
For Anderson, Jackson and Suns top 5 protected pick

I don't understand trading away a first for guys you can sign in FA. You may have a better case signing them in FA if you don't trade for them, honestly.

Plus, remember, even if we keep that pick due to protection, it still rolls forward and we trade a future one.