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Welcome Kelly Oubre!!

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22, Kerrsed, batsmasher

Regardless of what he signs for, how do you project Oubre going forward?

Future all star
2
4%
Solid starter
21
45%
Fringe starter
14
30%
6th man
8
17%
Rotation player
2
4%
 
Total votes: 47

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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#61 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Mar 6, 2019 4:25 am

lilfishi22 wrote:Washington must be horrible to be in if Oubre is loving Phoenix.

It is good to hear from an outsider that the culture is great in Phoenix even though we're losing
I expected oubre to like it much better in Phoenix. That Washington team traded away so many picks he was one of the only young dudes on that team his whole time there. He comes here and plays with dudes his own age and probably has a ton more in common with off the court. And instead of being the young dude that their snarly vets beat on he gets to be one of the 'vets' with this group. It's a much different set up for him.

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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#62 » by Saberestar » Thu Mar 7, 2019 12:42 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#63 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 12:51 am

Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is why I think he's going to be overpaid. I think someone is going to send him a fat offer and we'll match. I like him a lot more than before but I'm still wary about overpaying for role players. Valuable role players are generally only valuable if they are on a good deal. A lot of Oubre's mistakes on the court, tunnel vision and bad shot attempts will come under significantly more scrutiny, become more apparent and less acceptable (even among his fans) when he's on $15-18m a year as opposed to right now where he's on a rookie scale contract ($3.1m).

Like Booker, once you're on a fat 2nd contract, expectations are much, much higher
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#64 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 2:56 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is why I think he's going to be overpaid. I think someone is going to send him a fat offer and we'll match. I like him a lot more than before but I'm still wary about overpaying for role players. Valuable role players are generally only valuable if they are on a good deal. A lot of Oubre's mistakes on the court, tunnel vision and bad shot attempts will come under significantly more scrutiny, become more apparent and less acceptable (even among his fans) when he's on $15-18m a year as opposed to right now where he's on a rookie scale contract ($3.1m).

Like Booker, once you're on a fat 2nd contract, expectations are much, much higher


What makes you think another team would be dumb enough to give him a fat offer? I mean he's a non playmaking wing that is not a good 3 pt shooter and near the bottom of SF defense in DRPM. How much do you think a team will value him? Now I can see us just giving him a big deal because he's saying all the right things, is popular, and a fan favorite, but I can't see another team from afar saying "He'd be a good guy to give a a lot of money too." Seems like it would be a mistake for a team with a good front office/scouting staff to invest too much money in him.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#65 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 3:24 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
Read on Twitter

This is why I think he's going to be overpaid. I think someone is going to send him a fat offer and we'll match. I like him a lot more than before but I'm still wary about overpaying for role players. Valuable role players are generally only valuable if they are on a good deal. A lot of Oubre's mistakes on the court, tunnel vision and bad shot attempts will come under significantly more scrutiny, become more apparent and less acceptable (even among his fans) when he's on $15-18m a year as opposed to right now where he's on a rookie scale contract ($3.1m).

Like Booker, once you're on a fat 2nd contract, expectations are much, much higher


What makes you think another team would be dumb enough to give him a fat offer? I mean he's a non playmaking wing that is not a good 3 pt shooter and near the bottom of SF defense in DRPM. How much do you think a team will value him? Now I can see us just giving him a big deal because he's saying all the right things, is popular, and a fan favorite, but I can't see another team from afar saying "He'd be a good guy to give a a lot of money too." Seems like it would be a mistake for a team with a good front office/scouting staff to invest too much money in him.

Only a few teams have truly good front offices and I truly believe he's going to get a big offer. 20/6 per 36 and able to get to the line, play with energy and shoot 3's is pretty valuable especially as he's showing he can (with some time) even fit into a messy Suns offense. A lot of teams will have cap space this off season, young wings with potential will be highly sought-after and a lot of those teams will miss out on the truly high end talent so a good amount of those teams will star to look at Oubre level players as a secondary target.

This offseason has the makings of the the 2016 offseason where a lot of teams have cap space and it's high probably the salary cap will see a considerable jump with that gambling money (TV money in 2016) coming in.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#66 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 4:44 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:This is why I think he's going to be overpaid. I think someone is going to send him a fat offer and we'll match. I like him a lot more than before but I'm still wary about overpaying for role players. Valuable role players are generally only valuable if they are on a good deal. A lot of Oubre's mistakes on the court, tunnel vision and bad shot attempts will come under significantly more scrutiny, become more apparent and less acceptable (even among his fans) when he's on $15-18m a year as opposed to right now where he's on a rookie scale contract ($3.1m).

Like Booker, once you're on a fat 2nd contract, expectations are much, much higher


What makes you think another team would be dumb enough to give him a fat offer? I mean he's a non playmaking wing that is not a good 3 pt shooter and near the bottom of SF defense in DRPM. How much do you think a team will value him? Now I can see us just giving him a big deal because he's saying all the right things, is popular, and a fan favorite, but I can't see another team from afar saying "He'd be a good guy to give a a lot of money too." Seems like it would be a mistake for a team with a good front office/scouting staff to invest too much money in him.

Only a few teams have truly good front offices and I truly believe he's going to get a big offer. 20/6 per 36 and able to get to the line, play with energy and shoot 3's is pretty valuable especially as he's showing he can (with some time) even fit into a messy Suns offense. A lot of teams will have cap space this off season, young wings with potential will be highly sought-after and a lot of those teams will miss out on the truly high end talent so a good amount of those teams will star to look at Oubre level players as a secondary target.

This offseason has the makings of the the 2016 offseason where a lot of teams have cap space and it's high probably the salary cap will see a considerable jump with that gambling money (TV money in 2016) coming in.


I think most front offices now are pretty good to very good which is why the west is so brutally tough. Some of the teams with maybe not great front offices are already in cap hell. It will be interesting. Memphis obviously wanted him...so maybe them. I thought the Kings would but they got Barnes.

Ultimately it doesn't matter a whole lot unless he ends up regressing terribly because it shouldn't impact our cap space this offseason since we would likely match after using cap space. But if we keep our pick and his cap hold, we won't have much...less than $10 million...maybe a bit more if we renounce Holmes and drop to 7 or 8 in the draft.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#67 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 5:03 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
What makes you think another team would be dumb enough to give him a fat offer? I mean he's a non playmaking wing that is not a good 3 pt shooter and near the bottom of SF defense in DRPM. How much do you think a team will value him? Now I can see us just giving him a big deal because he's saying all the right things, is popular, and a fan favorite, but I can't see another team from afar saying "He'd be a good guy to give a a lot of money too." Seems like it would be a mistake for a team with a good front office/scouting staff to invest too much money in him.

Only a few teams have truly good front offices and I truly believe he's going to get a big offer. 20/6 per 36 and able to get to the line, play with energy and shoot 3's is pretty valuable especially as he's showing he can (with some time) even fit into a messy Suns offense. A lot of teams will have cap space this off season, young wings with potential will be highly sought-after and a lot of those teams will miss out on the truly high end talent so a good amount of those teams will star to look at Oubre level players as a secondary target.

This offseason has the makings of the the 2016 offseason where a lot of teams have cap space and it's high probably the salary cap will see a considerable jump with that gambling money (TV money in 2016) coming in.


I think most front offices now are pretty good to very good which is why the west is so brutally tough. Some of the teams with maybe not great front offices are already in cap hell. It will be interesting. Memphis obviously wanted him...so maybe them. I thought the Kings would but they got Barnes.

Ultimately it doesn't matter a whole lot unless he ends up regressing terribly because it shouldn't impact our cap space this offseason since we would likely match after using cap space. But if we keep our pick and his cap hold, we won't have much...less than $10 million...maybe a bit more if we renounce Holmes and drop to 7 or 8 in the draft.

When I say only a few teams have truly good front offices, I mean that most teams aren't immune to giving out bad deals in the hope of getting better. It doesn't mean those really good front offices are immune either but they are just much better at making use of cap space.

I'm not thinking about this offseason, I'm just thinking about Oubre's value as an asset. Either he becomes a net positive asset after this or he doesn't after getting paid.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#68 » by jcsunsfan » Thu Mar 7, 2019 7:41 am

there is a lot more cap space than good players available this summer.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#69 » by Qwigglez » Thu Mar 7, 2019 11:39 am

The way Oubre plays though, he’ll always have a fit for virtually any team. So even if he gets a contract in the $15M range other teams could potentially look to trade expirings for him. He isn’t in the same mold as some of these other guys who got fat deals a couple of years ago.

Examples off the top of my head being Evan Turner, non shooter, 27 years old, no real upside.
Mozgov- older veteran as well, and a big that doesn’t spread the floor.
Bazemore is a good comparison since he was considered a 3&D guy but he was also 27 years old.

In fact even looking back to the notable signings, most were older players. Allen Crabbe was a RFA so he still had some upside as he was only 24 years old, but he doesn’t even fit the same mold as what KO is. Plus teams thought back then that the cap would continue to sky rocket, which is why many players received deals larger than what they are worth. Right now, I’d say KO could very well be worth a $55-60M 4 year deal , since he’s only 24 and money wise that would equate to about 13% of our cap room.

Only teams I could see going for KO are young teams. Maybe the Hawks since I heard they made Prince available. The Grizzlies, Cavs, maybe the Mavs, Bulls, and Pelicans. Most playoff teams don’t really have the cap space, and probably don’t want to risk signing a 23 year old when there are so many other older veteran wings available.

There are also other young mid level wings or cheaper available such as RHJ, Lamb, Hezonja. Someone is going to sign a contract right away and dictate the market for others, and with so many options out there, I bet most teams are only go to offer $12M max for these kind of guys. Because of this I’m not too worried about signing KO long term on a good deal.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#70 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Mar 7, 2019 2:49 pm

Read on Twitter


I'd say when the team account is posting with valley boyz vids there's a good chance they want him back. For a team really hurting in local PR I can see why they would want to keep a popular player who likes it here.

While I don't like overpaying players if you do over pay a guy a young versitile wing who fits in well chemistry wise with your core players is probably the least harmful kind of guy to over pay. Their are worse things they could do with their money this offseason like giving Terry Rozier a ridiculous contact. Or paying an old washed vet like they did with Chandler and Ariza.

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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#71 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 4:08 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Read on Twitter


I'd say when the team account is posting with valley boyz vids there's a good chance they want him back. For a team really hurting in local PR I can see why they would want to keep a popular player who likes it here.

While I don't like overpaying players if you do over pay a guy a young versitile wing who fits in well chemistry wise with your core players is probably the least harmful kind of guy to over pay. Their are worse things they could do with their money this offseason like giving Terry Rozier a ridiculous contact. Or paying an old washed vet like they did with Chandler and Ariza.

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Oh yeah, if you look at their tweets, they want him back...that and James Jones saying "he speaks for the organization when he says they want him back".....funny he said something like "that's why we were targeting him from the beginning" which was funny since they wanted Brooks to begin with.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#72 » by itlnsunsfan » Thu Mar 7, 2019 5:26 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Read on Twitter


I'd say when the team account is posting with valley boyz vids there's a good chance they want him back. For a team really hurting in local PR I can see why they would want to keep a popular player who likes it here.

While I don't like overpaying players if you do over pay a guy a young versitile wing who fits in well chemistry wise with your core players is probably the least harmful kind of guy to over pay. Their are worse things they could do with their money this offseason like giving Terry Rozier a ridiculous contact. Or paying an old washed vet like they did with Chandler and Ariza.

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Oh yeah, if you look at their tweets, they want him back...that and James Jones saying "he speaks for the organization when he says they want him back".....funny he said something like "that's why we were targeting him from the beginning" which was funny since they wanted Brooks to begin with.


Lol ya James kind of misspoke there.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#73 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Mar 7, 2019 6:21 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
Read on Twitter


I'd say when the team account is posting with valley boyz vids there's a good chance they want him back. For a team really hurting in local PR I can see why they would want to keep a popular player who likes it here.

While I don't like overpaying players if you do over pay a guy a young versitile wing who fits in well chemistry wise with your core players is probably the least harmful kind of guy to over pay. Their are worse things they could do with their money this offseason like giving Terry Rozier a ridiculous contact. Or paying an old washed vet like they did with Chandler and Ariza.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app


Oh yeah, if you look at their tweets, they want him back...that and James Jones saying "he speaks for the organization when he says they want him back".....funny he said something like "that's why we were targeting him from the beginning" which was funny since they wanted Brooks to begin with.
Yeah I laughed at that comment. Now I don't view it as a binary 'wanted Brooks so didn't want Oubre' thing. Due to the contractual differences it's completely understandable why they would have preferred Brooks that deal but it doesn't mean they didn't have interest in Oubre.

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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#74 » by bwgood77 » Thu Mar 7, 2019 7:08 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Oh yeah, if you look at their tweets, they want him back...that and James Jones saying "he speaks for the organization when he says they want him back".....funny he said something like "that's why we were targeting him from the beginning" which was funny since they wanted Brooks to begin with.
Yeah I laughed at that comment. Now I don't view it as a binary 'wanted Brooks so didn't want Oubre' thing. Due to the contractual differences it's completely understandable why they would have preferred Brooks that deal but it doesn't mean they didn't have interest in Oubre.

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Yeah, he was asked about not wanting Oubre initially before and mentioned he had interest but didn't think he was worth adding the couple of seconds or whatever else it was the Wizards were asking for.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#75 » by WeekapaugGroove » Thu Mar 7, 2019 11:44 pm

Brightside with the 'pay the man' article.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/3/7/18255052/kelly-oubre-jr-is-proving-why-phoenix-suns-need-to-pay-up

Now just because teammates like a dude isn't a good reason to over pay someone but it certainly does help having a fun dude who others like in this locker room considering some of the turds that have been here and the general black cloud that has hung over this franchise for years now.

Quote on that:

However, the lanky wing isn’t just prioritizing a new contract since his arrival. He’s stepped into a leadership role alongside the Suns’ young core members like Booker. As Johnson put it nicely, the bubbly personality of Oubre Jr. is rubbing off in one of the best ways possible.

“Yeah he has,” Johnson said of Oubre Jr. being a leader. “He’s very vocal. He definitely brings a great sense of energy both on and off the court. When you enjoy being around certain people, then it’s a little easier to go out and fight with them.”
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#76 » by sunskerr » Fri Mar 8, 2019 1:50 am

If he keeps this play up, somebody (us or another team) is going to give him a nice offer. It's nice to have the right to match. He's averaging 16 pts 5 reb 1.3 stl with us in just 28 mpg, on 44% shooting. And the key thing is he's doing it with a positive VORP. So he's been pretty darn solid for us and he's still just 23. I think it's a reasonable expectation for him to get 2.0 3pg next year, on similar volume (he's at 1.7/5.2 for 32% this year).
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#77 » by Frank Lee » Fri Mar 8, 2019 3:14 am

4 for 60 ... is what it is. Lock him up. We are in no position to let cohesive talent walk away. Book, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre is a nice mix to have moving forward.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#78 » by bwgood77 » Fri Mar 8, 2019 5:11 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Brightside with the 'pay the man' article.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/3/7/18255052/kelly-oubre-jr-is-proving-why-phoenix-suns-need-to-pay-up

Now just because teammates like a dude isn't a good reason to over pay someone but it certainly does help having a fun dude who others like in this locker room considering some of the turds that have been here and the general black cloud that has hung over this franchise for years now.

Quote on that:

However, the lanky wing isn’t just prioritizing a new contract since his arrival. He’s stepped into a leadership role alongside the Suns’ young core members like Booker. As Johnson put it nicely, the bubbly personality of Oubre Jr. is rubbing off in one of the best ways possible.

“Yeah he has,” Johnson said of Oubre Jr. being a leader. “He’s very vocal. He definitely brings a great sense of energy both on and off the court. When you enjoy being around certain people, then it’s a little easier to go out and fight with them.”


Evan's been a mouthpiece for Oubre since he's been here likely in part due to being media friendly....he is writing an article saying the Suns should pay him between $13-16 million. That's nuts.

He compares him to Covington based on box stats (without looking at FG%) and thinks defense is just steals and blocks. Covington is #1 in DRPM among SFs out of 88 SFs and Oubre is #85.

Oubre is an exciting player but lets not go overboard on the guy. He's an energy guy who probably should be a bench energy guy...at least on a good team.

Bridges is FAR more effective as a defender. Anyway, everyone is concerned with too many wings or whatever and who starts...and you can mix and match guys all game, but I just really hope we don't overrate and overpay Oubre.

However, I'd rather overpay Oubre than overpay Rozier, even though we have wings.

I'll really hate if we overpay both.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#79 » by Frank Lee » Fri Mar 8, 2019 8:18 am

what are you guys balking about a couple mill for ? Seriously.... you have to have a foundation. Book Ayton Bridges Warren Melton costs us about 53-54 mill... Add Oubre at 15 and you are getting the bulk of the minutes covered for less than 70 mil. Good teams are 7-8 players who play 90+ % of your minutes, and then some rolers. keep TJohnson and you have a 90 mil out on 7 guys. Jackson is optional to me, but he does bring the edge that is defining this team. Scrappy lane jumping harassers. Dont look now, but our identity is becoming ...dare I say it.... wait for it.....DEFENSE....we wisely add a solid PF of the same mode into the mix and something could gel. These guys have talent and its only a matter of time before its pays out. Are we seeing it ? Gawd i hope so. Over paying Oubre is not going to be what derails this squad. If it busts down with these key guys, well, its fan **** hitting the wall... and we are back to square one.
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Re: Welcome Kelly Oubre!! 

Post#80 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Mar 8, 2019 8:22 am

bwgood77 wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:Brightside with the 'pay the man' article.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2019/3/7/18255052/kelly-oubre-jr-is-proving-why-phoenix-suns-need-to-pay-up

Now just because teammates like a dude isn't a good reason to over pay someone but it certainly does help having a fun dude who others like in this locker room considering some of the turds that have been here and the general black cloud that has hung over this franchise for years now.

Quote on that:

However, the lanky wing isn’t just prioritizing a new contract since his arrival. He’s stepped into a leadership role alongside the Suns’ young core members like Booker. As Johnson put it nicely, the bubbly personality of Oubre Jr. is rubbing off in one of the best ways possible.

“Yeah he has,” Johnson said of Oubre Jr. being a leader. “He’s very vocal. He definitely brings a great sense of energy both on and off the court. When you enjoy being around certain people, then it’s a little easier to go out and fight with them.”


Evan's been a mouthpiece for Oubre since he's been here likely in part due to being media friendly....he is writing an article saying the Suns should pay him between $13-16 million. That's nuts.

He compares him to Covington based on box stats (without looking at FG%) and thinks defense is just steals and blocks. Covington is #1 in DRPM among SFs out of 88 SFs and Oubre is #85.

Oubre is an exciting player but lets not go overboard on the guy. He's an energy guy who probably should be a bench energy guy...at least on a good team.

Bridges is FAR more effective as a defender. Anyway, everyone is concerned with too many wings or whatever and who starts...and you can mix and match guys all game, but I just really hope we don't overrate and overpay Oubre.

However, I'd rather overpay Oubre than overpay Rozier, even though we have wings.

I'll really hate if we overpay both.


No way Oubre is signing anywhere for less than $13 million.

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