Assuming you are a Suns GM, Would you at least try to pull a trigger on Dave Joerger right now?

[oligo]

Assuming you are a Suns GM, Would you at least try to pull a trigger on Dave Joerger right now?

[Crives]

If Book likes Koko, im keeping him. Excited to see the team next year with continuity at FO/Coach/Roster. Just look at basketball in the olympics, only reason some inferior teams can avoid getting blown out by USA is the roster continuity they have.

[Damkac]

No. Keep Igor. Can't keep changing coach every year.

[sunsbg]

If they think Joerger is actually a better coach then yes. After all the goal is to improve the team long term. Bringing a better coach earlier could be looked at as continuity from a future point in time.

[WeekapaugGroove]

It would scare me that's he's clashed with the front office at both of his first two jobs.

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[lilfishi22]

I voted no. Not because Igor is necessarily a better coach than Joerger (we don't know yet) but because we can't just keep changing up the coaching position until we find the "perfect coach".

[SuperSunsFan]

Continuity is overrated, Suns' best season after the departure of Nash was achieved under a new coach (Horny) when continuity was nonexistent. a person's resume is a better indicator of what the person could achieve in the future than what we project him to be able to achieve, as of now Joerger has a much more proven resume as a NBA coach as he has shown he could develop young players as a head coach and take one of the worst teams in league out of the bottom, Igor as yet to show that.

a team usually needs to go through at least two coaches on its quest to transform from bottom feeder to title contender, a coach to develop a young team in a playoffs team and another one to mold it into a title contender. (Mark Jackson to Kerr, Kidd to Budenholzer, Carlisle to Larry Brown) At this stage Suns need to find a coach that has a track record of successfully developing young players and taking a young team to the playoffs, they need to stop rejecting candidates just because they don't have a good W-L records in the playoffs like Kidd or Jackson, we are not at the contending stage yet.

[lilfishi22]

Continuity is overrated, Suns' best season after the departure of Nash was achieved under a new coach (Horny) when continuity was nonexistent. a person's resume is a better indicator of what the person could achieve in the future than what we project him to be able to achieve, as of now Joerger has a much more proven resume as a NBA coach as he has shown he could develop young players as a head coach and take one of the worst teams in league out of the bottom, Igor as yet to show that.

a team usually needs to go through at least two coaches on its quest to transform from bottom feeder to title contender, a coach to develop a young team in a playoffs team and another one to mold it into a title contender. (Mark Jackson to Kerr, Kidd to Budenholzer, Carlisle to Larry Brown) At this stage Suns need to find a coach that has a track record of successfully developing young players and taking a young team to the playoffs, they need to stop rejecting candidates just because they don't have a good W-L records in the playoffs like Kidd or Jackson, we are not at the contending stage yet.

Igor probably had 4 times the resume as a coach of Horny and Watson combined when coming into his first head coaching gig. We've already gone through Horny, Watson, Triano and now Igor and at some point you have to stick with one and play it out to see if they are actually good or not.

You might think continuity is overrated but these young guys need it in the worst way. If we make another coaching change, that will be Booker's 5th in 4 season. How do you expect him to get better when play development direction is changing every year?

[SuperSunsFan]

Continuity is overrated, Suns' best season after the departure of Nash was achieved under a new coach (Horny) when continuity was nonexistent. a person's resume is a better indicator of what the person could achieve in the future than what we project him to be able to achieve, as of now Joerger has a much more proven resume as a NBA coach as he has shown he could develop young players as a head coach and take one of the worst teams in league out of the bottom, Igor as yet to show that.

a team usually needs to go through at least two coaches on its quest to transform from bottom feeder to title contender, a coach to develop a young team in a playoffs team and another one to mold it into a title contender. (Mark Jackson to Kerr, Kidd to Budenholzer, Carlisle to Larry Brown) At this stage Suns need to find a coach that has a track record of successfully developing young players and taking a young team to the playoffs, they need to stop rejecting candidates just because they don't have a good W-L records in the playoffs like Kidd or Jackson, we are not at the contending stage yet.

Igor probably had 4 times the resume as a coach of Horny and Watson combined when coming into his first head coaching gig. We've already gone through Horny, Watson, Triano and now Igor and at some point you have to stick with one and play it out to see if they are actually good or not.

You might think continuity is overrated but these young guys need it in the worst way. If we make another coaching change, that will be Booker's 5th in 4 season. How do you expect him to get better when play development direction is changing every year?

despite all the turmoils and tanking we won 21 games last season. We won 19 this seasons. Continuity is so important to you but somehow the best players for us besides booker this year were Oubre and Tyler two guys joined in the middle of the seasons who were lucky enough not to be ruined by Igor's bad coaching in training camp. you have mistaken continuity with improvement, continuing down a path of regression will only lead to complete annihilation an a point of no return. If Booker's future is so important to you do you want his prime to be wasted in the hands of a mediocre coach like Igor or get him a real coach before its too late like Kimber walker who have wasted prime on mediocre coaching through out his career?

you noticed any improvement from JJ, Melton, Okobo, Mikal, Dragan and Ayton after a year under Igor from summer league to the end of the season? besides marginal improvement for Ayton's defense they are almost the exact same players as the beginning of the season. Melton still scores less than 5 points a game, Mikal's offense is still inconsistent and JJ is still JJ in summer league.

you people are really funny, after each game when I came on this forum I see nothing but complain about Igor's idiotic play callings or minutes distribution or not feeding Ayton in the post or lack of improvement from our young guys then when the season is over, boom, lets stay put and repeat the same infuriating experience again for one more season, are you freaking kidding me? does herpes just heal itself without treatment, does experience automatically make a bad team good, how many years had the pelicans stayed bad despite having a generational talent like Davis with an average coach like Gentry? what have Igor or Gentry done in the league to deserve chances after chances despite abysmal results season after season? Luke Walton and Joerger both did a much job than Igor and still they got fired.

I don't want to wait another year to find out if Igor can be a great coach just by us having a real point guard, may be he is a great coach and he played badly just because he didn't have a point guard or he is bad coach and we would have been bad regardless of having a point guard or not, but Joerger has proven to be good coach with a good point guard, I prefer betting on something with a track record than just rely on blind trust that Igor will bring massive improvement with a point next year.

[BobbieL]

Its the roster -- it needs to mature. This was a very young team this year. Especially once Chandler was bought out and Ariza traded. Not that those moves were wrong.

Look at many of these play-off teams: some like the Warriors are all like 30 years old; many on the Rockets. A team like the Bucks have Lopez but Giannis, Bledsoe, Snell, Middleton - a good mix.

Suns are just way way way too young mentally and physically. Give Igor a chance with a better roster. He deserves a second year with what seems like a better Front office.

[Years90Suns]

I like Joerger. I believe he has done a really god work in Sacramento. His main right-guess was choosing a high tempo path that fit his players. He put everybody to do what they are good at.

But I also believe that continuity is needed. We need to stick with this "plan" for at least 3-4 seasons. Anyway, I was expecting a team fighting to get into the PO, and we ended up tanking as usual. Even though the Lakers were much worse that thought, the Mavs did nothing and SAS is in reconstruction or something like that.

After 3 seasons I am not sure whether Booker is a player to build on or just a scorer with some creating ability that is unable to make his team mates and his team better. I tend to belive that he is just a great scorer that shines more when we are fighting for nothing and games are worthless.

So, how can we get better? Obviously we need some more game creators. Tyler Johnson is not a true point guard. Booker is not a creator. JJ is a disaster there (at least right now) and Crawford has improved at 38 playing some PG, which shows us the level of playing creativity we have. We desperately need to get players who can create with the ball, who take care of the ball, etc... but if we get lucky, we will pick Zion, who will sell tickets, but pairs badly with Ayton and will not make this team better.

[oligo]

OK guys, thank you so much for your thoughts and votes. I really appreciate that.

As I said, I'm quite undecided, but If I try to wrap all together, I'm leaning more towards a coaching change. I mean, you just added a No.1 pick guy, Booker was having his best season so far and I just expected maybe a little more than just 19 wins. Without trying to minimize wins against MIL and GSW, but both aforementioned teams really underestimated PHX and as such, PHX extracted 3 "unscheduled" wins, so in the worst case scenario, you could also finish a season with a 16-66 record. Well, lets put IFs, ANDs and BUTs aside.

If I try to put starters aside, I'm much more worried about 2nd and 3rd stringers. In most of the teams, a franchise would check if there is some gas left in the tank in G-league affiliates. Unfortunately, there is not much to see on that NAZ team. I was watching cca. 10-15 NAZ games this season, and I really didn't see any NBA material there (besides Okobo and Melton). Maybe lottery balls bring some joy this summer.

[bwgood77]

No

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/04/15/report-dave-joerger-wanted-luka-doncic-over-marvin-bagley-iii-had-disconnect-with-several-kings/

[WeekapaugGroove]

No

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/04/15/report-dave-joerger-wanted-luka-doncic-over-marvin-bagley-iii-had-disconnect-with-several-kings/

I can't fault him for wanting Doncic but he certainly seems like he's not the easiest to work with. He had trouble with this in Memphis too. Considering everything about the current suns franchise I would be very nervous bringing him in even though I do think he's a pretty good coach.

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[bwgood77]

No

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/04/15/report-dave-joerger-wanted-luka-doncic-over-marvin-bagley-iii-had-disconnect-with-several-kings/

I can't fault him for wanting Doncic but he certainly seems like he's not the easiest to work with. He had trouble with this in Memphis too. Considering everything about the current suns franchise I would be very nervous bringing him in even though I do think he's a pretty good coach.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

Sure, it's reasonable to want Doncic but he certainly couldn't get along with management or younger players. Did you see the video of him yelling at Hield after hitting the big shot? I can't imagine how frustrated he'd get with some of our young players...if not most all of them....and if he has trouble getting along with other front offices, I imagine him and Sarver might end up butting heads at some point, even with James Jones as the buffer.

[lilfishi22]

Continuity is overrated, Suns' best season after the departure of Nash was achieved under a new coach (Horny) when continuity was nonexistent. a person's resume is a better indicator of what the person could achieve in the future than what we project him to be able to achieve, as of now Joerger has a much more proven resume as a NBA coach as he has shown he could develop young players as a head coach and take one of the worst teams in league out of the bottom, Igor as yet to show that.

a team usually needs to go through at least two coaches on its quest to transform from bottom feeder to title contender, a coach to develop a young team in a playoffs team and another one to mold it into a title contender. (Mark Jackson to Kerr, Kidd to Budenholzer, Carlisle to Larry Brown) At this stage Suns need to find a coach that has a track record of successfully developing young players and taking a young team to the playoffs, they need to stop rejecting candidates just because they don't have a good W-L records in the playoffs like Kidd or Jackson, we are not at the contending stage yet.

Igor probably had 4 times the resume as a coach of Horny and Watson combined when coming into his first head coaching gig. We've already gone through Horny, Watson, Triano and now Igor and at some point you have to stick with one and play it out to see if they are actually good or not.

You might think continuity is overrated but these young guys need it in the worst way. If we make another coaching change, that will be Booker's 5th in 4 season. How do you expect him to get better when play development direction is changing every year?

despite all the turmoils and tanking we won 21 games last season. We won 19 this seasons. Continuity is so important to you but somehow the best players for us besides booker this year were Oubre and Tyler two guys joined in the middle of the seasons who were lucky enough not to be ruined by Igor's bad coaching in training camp. you have mistaken continuity with improvement, continuing down a path of regression will only lead to complete annihilation an a point of no return. If Booker's future is so important to you do you want his prime to be wasted in the hands of a mediocre coach like Igor or get him a real coach before its too late like Kimber walker who have wasted prime on mediocre coaching through out his career?

you noticed any improvement from JJ, Melton, Okobo, Mikal, Dragan and Ayton after a year under Igor from summer league to the end of the season? besides marginal improvement for Ayton's defense they are almost the exact same players as the beginning of the season. Melton still scores less than 5 points a game, Mikal's offense is still inconsistent and JJ is still JJ in summer league.

you people are really funny, after each game when I came on this forum I see nothing but complain about Igor's idiotic play callings or minutes distribution or not feeding Ayton in the post or lack of improvement from our young guys then when the season is over, boom, lets stay put and repeat the same infuriating experience again for one more season, are you freaking kidding me? does herpes just heal itself without treatment, does experience automatically make a bad team good, how many years had the pelicans stayed bad despite having a generational talent like Davis with an average coach like Gentry? what have Igor or Gentry done in the league to deserve chances after chances despite abysmal results season after season? Luke Walton and Joerger both did a much job than Igor and still they got fired.

I don't want to wait another year to find out if Igor can be a great coach just by us having a real point guard, may be he is a great coach and he played badly just because he didn't have a point guard or he is bad coach and we would have been bad regardless of having a point guard or not, but Joerger has proven to be good coach with a good point guard, I prefer betting on something with a track record than just rely on blind trust that Igor will bring massive improvement with a point next year.

How did we have continuity between last season and this season when we had a coaching change and also a complete revamp of our front office ?? The reason we're worse this season as opposed to last is because of the difference in coaching, injuries and of course, some poor front office moves (and non-moves). As far as I'm concerned winning 23 games (2 game improvement) and 19 games (2 game decline) is a difference of 4 games and at face value, tells you very little about whether this team is better or not. If we won 48 games last season, then 39 and then 23, then yeah, clearly we're getting *measurably* worse and that's backed up by the advanced stats too. But losing 2 games more in a season where our two best players (Booker/Warren) played a combined 12 games less than last season is really not significant. Take Derozan away 10-15 games, do you think the Spurs would lose 2 games more?

Who saying stay put? Who doesn't want to improve this roster? Who doesn't want to get our guys healthy? Who doesn't want our young guys to get stronger over the summer? Hey mate, you're not a visionary for wanting improvement. You're just as clueless as any of us throwing out ideas. And that's the point of the forum, to throw out ideas, some good and some bad. You don't have the answer because you and I both know damn well that you have no idea if there is a coach out there who will definitely turn us around or that coach is even willing to work under Sarver. I'm not ride or die with Igor but I recognise that these young guys need continuity to build off. Its' not some blind trust. Blind trust suggests there's absolutely nothing to hang that trust on. Igor has a stellar resume, he's coached or been part of top teams in both the NBA and in Europe. If we're talking about lack of improvement, Bender hasn't really improved, JJ still sucks, Melton and Okobo are both rookies but they weren't high level talent to begin with. But Ayton has gotten noticeably better defensively, Mikal is objectively one of the most disruptive wings in the league, Booker is a better passer than he was last year and Oubre has shown to be a pretty good 2nd option offensively. Not everyone is going to improve at the same pace, some are faster, some slower and others regress.

As for Walton and Joerger, perhaps they fired Joerger because they already had Walton at their doorstep? And perhaps Walton got fired because Lebron fired him. Is there some world class coach out there at our doorstep?

[SuperSunsFan]

How did having almost three years continuity of earl Watson's superb coaching work out for us? this is when hiring a highly regarded coach is beneficial, when you have the confidence that the coach on the helm is good quality because of his proven track record you have the peace of mind to give this coach more time to work things out through tough time. I have don't that peace of mind with Igor, I don't know if he is a good coach who needs more time or if he is Earl Watson because there is no track records suggesting one way or the other.

Bledsoe has been proven to be a good second or third wheel of a championship caliber team and yet we were pretty bad too with him playing hard and Warren booker coming into their own. Do we suck because we have bad players or we suck because we have bad management/coaching/training staff? There is only one way to find out, for example, if we break the bank to hire someone like a Popovich or Jerry Sloan who we have no doubt is a great coach, and if our team still struggle 1 or 2 seasons later then we can conclude that our players were bad and we need to improve our scouting. Because we keep hiring these first time coaches with no track record there is no way to know if the coach is bad or else and we keep living in the Groundhog Day of trying to figure out the catch 22 question for eternity of if our coach is bad, our players bad or both bad.

[lilfishi22]

How did having almost three years continuity of earl Watson's superb coaching work out for us? this is when hiring a highly regarded coach is beneficial, when you have the confidence that the coach on the helm is good quality because of his proven track record you have the peace of mind to give this coach more time to work things out through tough time. I have don't that peace of mind with Igor, I don't know if he is a good coach who needs more time or if he is Earl Watson because there is no track records suggesting one way or the other.

Not good but do you understand why Watson and Igor is different? Earl Watson had next to zero coaching experience. Likewise wise with Hornacek. Watson had less than 2 years of coaching (at any level) experience before he got the head coaching job. Igor has been an NBA assistant since 2000. I don't want to list out his entire resume but he's coached with some of the very best. His first season was underwhelming to say the least, frustrating at times too but looking at the age and imbalance of the roster, he was essentially set up to fail.

If a guy like Bud was available at the door step, hey man I'm right with you. I'd sign him then and there. But he isn't. Walton would've been my pick as HC if Igor was fired but he's already taken the Kings job. Hell if Joerger is willing to deal with Sarver's **** and is ready to sign, I'll consider him too. So where's these certified options out there that would actually want to coach under Sarver and his inexperienced front office?