Slim Charless wrote:Ghost of Kleine wrote:Slim Charless wrote:
Well then wish them good luck and we both go our own separate ways. I get that we've not had the most success the last few years but that doesn't mean that we need to have a fire sale for all of our players either. Its not amazon prime day for suns players. Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't we use a young cheap athletic wing with defensive potential? I mean if Jackson's value is sooo low why not just hold onto him, see if Monty can turn him around.
If all he's worth is a low 2nd round pick now,then there's a chance he can only go up from there I'd imagine yes? He's not without talent he was a consensus top-5 pick in his class, he's raw like a lot of these guys. What's the harm in seeing if he can put it together with an actual NBA coach...
Honestly, I think that saying we haven't had the most success the last few years is really a gross understatement. 10 years of missing the playoffs and over the last 5 years, we've only averaged slightly above 20 wins, With The very worst being last season. But why not ..........
Let's definitely hold onto the same roster that did an amazing job of leading us to 19 wins. Also, I wouldn't classify attaching one player with probably the worst perceived value based upon metrics, etc. In a trade for cap space and also getting a 2nd round pick back ( for use in a larger trade) having a fire sale either.
Yes, It would be nice to have a young, cheap, athletic defensive wing player. But isn't that what Bridges is already, and honestly at about half the price of what Jackson will cost us come November???
As per his value, I enquired not too far back( obviously prior to his latest fiasco) and the responses based upon his overall metrics, his 9 million contract extension due in November, and his erratic and inconsistent play left many with the perception that his value is in the range of a mid to late first round pick AT THE VERY BEST.
And that's only in terms of a team that is actually high on his potential. Now are yhose people undervaluing him, Or are we guilty of overvaluing our own players due to us being so bad for so long?
Hard to tell, but I'm inclined to think it's the latter.
But if we decide to hold onto him, in order to try and raise his value in the next 3-4 months, Before we have to make a big decision on him contractually, So be it.
In the end, I guess that I'm just trying to understand the mentality that some people have on here, Wherein we being a 19 win team are expected to get better and somehow become competitive.
When we have limited cap space to actually offer, Obviously aren't a free agent destination, and in that reality, The only realistic and viable option for our improvement obviously lies within a trade.
However, Due to being bad for so long, We covet and overvalue our only available assets for trade. Because of the fear of what exactly? Maybe becoming worse, IF that's even possible?
Remember the saying........"The definition of insanity is to repeat the same scenario, Yet expect a different outcome".
I know that we're a really poor team, But we really need to start being realistic as to the value of our roster, especially in terms of perceived value from other teams.
Of course we could always just leave the roster as is, I mean it done well for us so far hasn't it???
With regards to 1st part of the statement, I get it-we suck. At that same time I think we've also been-especially towards the latter part of the season, one the biggest tanking teams in the league. I mean the Ben SImmons year, the Fultz year (not that he has done anything but still) and the Ayton year how many games do really think we were trying to win that last month? Not too many imho. We wanted to lose in order to add 1 of the consensus can't miss players in those respective drafts. We got one <shrug>
As to second part. In your own words you say we're not a free agent destination so that means we have to overpay for mediocre players? We give away 6th overall, Jackson, and Warren so we can have the honor of paying Collison or Aminu 20 million a year? You know back in the Nash days we were a destination and if we had that team now I have no doubt that KD, Kawhi or any of the others guys would look at us favorably, and then I'd be all about giving away whatever to to free up space to sign them. Its not the Nash days though and we have who we have. Overpaying meh dudes isnt the way back there.
Once again I'm not against trading dudes, I'm against trading them at their lowest point for scrapes. I mean look no further then the Nets, they didn't have any picks or hope thanks to BIlly King. How'd they get better? By buying low on players that other teams have giving up hope on. I'm down to send off whomever if we can get a good player in return.
- First, it's debatable as to whether we were really tanking up until after the all star break. We had a coach that didn't properly relate or communicate with our young players.
Also we didn't even utilize Ayton well, our team was young and inexperienced, And Warren was injured for the majority of the season ( as usual).
So again, I'd argue that we played hard and tried to compete, But we just realistically weren't that good.
But honestly, That's really besides the point, As the overall point is to get better, And actually compete.
So, if all your current roster is capable of leading you to is around 20 wins per season, Then you quite obviously need to improve your roster, along with other potential considerations of course.
Second, in what scenario are we simply giving up the 6th pick for space alone, We're not, We're trading back to a couple of spots to 10 in a top 2 draft , Because the prospect that we happen to like ( Clarke) has been identified to be available in that range.
Also, really with respect to Jackson and Warren, What exactly has Jackson done for our team other than still be wildly consistent, make poor decisions on and off the court, and consistently manage to self sabotage his own value??
And it's great that Warren has improved his shooting and 3 point shot, Whilst being on a reasonable contract. But what good is that if he's unable to even play half the season and when he does play, he's not good defensively and has tunnel vision.
Also, It would obviously be great if Jackson had more value, or could turn the corner. But is he currently worth the 9 million extension that he's got coming in November?
Should we wait and be on the hook for 9 million then, And if he's still unable to get it together, then his value will look even worse.
Also Is warren really currently worth his contract when he's going to likely be a backup to Oubre, And is often in street clothes, as opposed to being an option on the court. What value does he offer our team whilst on the bench???
And calling Collison and Aminu mediocre?......Really.......What point guard do we currently have on our roster that even puts up numbers close to what he has honestly?
And please don't say Booker, because we all know that he's really a shooting guard who has played the point out of necessity, but he's much better off the ball.
And playing him at the 1, Only wears him out faster, decreases his dhooting efficiency and increases his risk of reinjury( hamstring).
Also, Both Aminu and Collison helped to lead their teams to the playoffs, When is the last time either Jackson or Warren has done anything close to that?
So I'll ask again, What exactly has Jackson and Warren done for our team in comparison to the players that you deem mediocre?
We need veteran more experience on our roster, as well as players with a winning pedigree. The idea is to create cap space with which to add experienced veteran players throughout our roster in order to help our young players progression, and to help instill a more competitive and winning culture.
(Which Jones himself has mentioned in the Williams interview). Do you think those types of players come cheap? So yes, as I myself stated. We are not CURRENTLY a free agent destination.
So yes, We'll have to overpay, in order to get a higher class of free agents. And how does that happen?
Through trades in order to clear cap space. As our current nine million alone just won't accomplish that in a free agency wherein a lot of teams will have money.
But I understand that you value Warren and Jackson enough to not want to trade them of course, And that's your perogative honestly.
So with respect to that, Which other players are there exactly on our roster currently that are not either core pieces that are deemed untouchable or are not free agents, and still under contract ( allowing us to trade them)???
Seeing as we're not likely to be trading any of Booker/Ayton/ Bridges. Who does that leave us with currently under contract to be traded???
Ahhh yes, That would be Warren/ Jackson/ and Johnson.
So as unpleasant as it may be for some to consider. It's still quite likely to happen. Or else we can just keep our roster pretty much the same, and pray I guess.....
