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Hey guys, I created a spreadsheet on our updated salary cap situation.





In the very first scenario, it has us keeping almost everyone (Bender has a pretty high cap hold). 2nd scenario is simply renouncing Bender's right. 3rd scenario is without Bender or Holmes. 4th scenario is using the stretch provision on Tyler Johnson (along with no Bender/Holmes). 5th scenario includes renouncing Oubre. 6th scenario is if we trade Tyler Johnson (and the Bucks pick) for JR Smith, and then waiving JR Smith, it creates about $2.6 Million in extra cap space.

The last scenario is one we've been talking about lately, and that's trading for Conley (Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson, Bucks pick, future pick or 2nd rounders). If we traded for Conley and kept our 6th pick, we'd only have about $3.8 Million in cap space. However that's if we renounced Richaun Holmes and Dragan Bender. If we keep both of them we are over the cap by almost $2 Million. It is likely in our best interest to keep both Holmes and Bender if we were to trade for Conley. The reason for that is so we can utilize the mid level exception which is projected to be at $9.25 Million, and the bi-annual exception at $3.6 Million. Use both of those exceptions and also keep Oubre. Maybe use the MLE on someone like Nikola Mirotic, Jeff Green, and the BAE on someone like Corey Brewer, Jeremy Lin.

Conley / Booker / Oubre / Mirotic / Ayton
Melton / Bridges / Warren / Clarke / Holmes + Bender


*edit you can also renounce Holmes and still get the MLE and BAE.

Also, another thing I didn't mention just in case people were wondering, Troy Daniels has a cap hold of $6.2 Million, Ray Spalding has a cap hold of $1.4 Million, Jamal Crawford has a cap hold of $1.6 Million, George King $1.4 Million, and Jimmer Fredette with a team option of a little less than $2 Million. I felt each of those were extremely unlikely so I didn't include that into any figures above. I also didn't include any 2nd round picks cap hold, but if we were to keep our 2nd round pick they would likely be paid anywhere from $1-1.5 Million.

Conley / Booker / Oubre / Mirotic / Ayton
Melton / Bridges / Warren / Clarke / Holmes + Bender

Adding Conley and Mirotic would be pretty awesome in my opinion. I think Mirotic is exactly the kind of PF we need next to Ayton. Conley is a player that, if healthy, is pretty damn good and would be awesome for our young guys (good leader and has never even had a technical foul in his career). I think your lineup is my favorite I've seen so far. Good job man

Qwigglez wrote:Hey guys, I created a spreadsheet on our updated salary cap situation.





In the very first scenario, it has us keeping almost everyone (Bender has a pretty high cap hold). 2nd scenario is simply renouncing Bender's right. 3rd scenario is without Bender or Holmes. 4th scenario is using the stretch provision on Tyler Johnson (along with no Bender/Holmes). 5th scenario includes renouncing Oubre. 6th scenario is if we trade Tyler Johnson (and the Bucks pick) for JR Smith, and then waiving JR Smith, it creates about $2.6 Million in extra cap space.

The last scenario is one we've been talking about lately, and that's trading for Conley (Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson, Bucks pick, future pick or 2nd rounders). If we traded for Conley and kept our 6th pick, we'd only have about $3.8 Million in cap space. However that's if we renounced Richaun Holmes and Dragan Bender. If we keep both of them we are over the cap by almost $2 Million. It is likely in our best interest to keep both Holmes and Bender if we were to trade for Conley. The reason for that is so we can utilize the mid level exception which is projected to be at $9.25 Million, and the bi-annual exception at $3.6 Million. Use both of those exceptions and also keep Oubre. Maybe use the MLE on someone like Nikola Mirotic, Jeff Green, and the BAE on someone like Corey Brewer, Jeremy Lin.

Conley / Booker / Oubre / Mirotic / Ayton
Melton / Bridges / Warren / Clarke / Holmes + Bender


*edit you can also renounce Holmes and still get the MLE and BAE.

Awesome job man!!! Thanks for this, it certainly helps to clarify the varying scenarios available to us.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2019/05/17/salary-cap-gurus-dissect-phoenix-suns-off-season-options/3713764002/ .

What would your thoughts be on adding both Conley and Randle?

Remember that an incomplete roster charge can be added into any free agent offer that we make since it eliminates a roster opening.

The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

Qwigglez wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

Probably but we'll see. I'm not much of a Randle fan and I don't even really believe in his fit next to Ayton. I think Young and Aminu is interesting, they are vets who have played well and could probably be had for cheapish. I think Mirotic and Kleber are my first choice for PF but they are probably out of our price range.

This off season is potentially going to be dangerous with many similarities to the 2016 off season. You would think and it would appear teams are smarter now but you just never know what teams with cap space would do when they (inevitably) miss out on those top free agents. The key difference is that the teams in 2016 suddenly got a ton of free cap space which prompted the spending spree while this time around, teams actually created that space on their own. I think not having a crazy amount of cap space is probably a good thing to curb bad spending. If we're smart with our money, we'll be fine even without max cap space.

Good stuff.

I think we don't have Benders cap hold in our books, as we renounced his rights, no? Most likely we would resign him for way cheaper, as he is not worth his current salary.

I also don't ever want to see JR Smiths name involved with the Suns, even if just for a trade and waive.

MathiasPW wrote:Good stuff.

I think we don't have Benders cap hold in our books, as we renounced his rights, no? Most likely we would resign him for way cheaper, as he is not worth his current salary.

I also don't ever want to see JR Smiths name involved with the Suns, even if just for a trade and waive.

Watch on YouTube

I believe the Suns can still sign him, and if so, the only amount they can get him for is the amount I listed above. Not entirely sure though.

Qwigglez wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

The next two dominoes if you will are the draft and Tyler Johnson. One would think he opts in for the 19.4m large - but if he does, do they ship him to Cleveland and than waive JR Smith. Or do you make the trade with the Grizzlies for Conley.

I think Aminu and Thad Young are good candidates. Bleber would be outstanding but I think the Mavs match his offer.

Qwigglez wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

But you cannot use the MLE if you are under the cap, right? The MLE is not an option for us this summer, unless it is greater than the cap space we have. If you use the cap space, you have to renounce the MLE, and if you use the MLE, you cannot use the cap space.

MathiasPW wrote:Good stuff.

I think we don't have Benders cap hold in our books, as we renounced his rights, no? Most likely we would resign him for way cheaper, as he is not worth his current salary.

I also don't ever want to see JR Smiths name involved with the Suns, even if just for a trade and waive.

Watch on YouTube

There is no point in maintaining a cap hold for Bender.

BobbieL wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

The next two dominoes if you will are the draft and Tyler Johnson. One would think he opts in for the 19.4m large - but if he does, do they ship him to Cleveland and than waive JR Smith. Or do you make the trade with the Grizzlies for Conley.

I think Aminu and Thad Young are good candidates. Bleber would be outstanding but I think the Mavs match his offer.

I do not want Aminu, he was exposed in the playoffs.

He is too limited on offense and with a ton of miles already on his body.

Not a good finisher or creator...good defender but not better than some other players who are gonna get probably lower salaries.

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:
The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

The next two dominoes if you will are the draft and Tyler Johnson. One would think he opts in for the 19.4m large - but if he does, do they ship him to Cleveland and than waive JR Smith. Or do you make the trade with the Grizzlies for Conley.

I think Aminu and Thad Young are good candidates. Bleber would be outstanding but I think the Mavs match his offer.

I do not want Aminu, he was exposed in the playoffs.

He is too limited on offense and with a ton of miles already on his body.

Not a good finisher or creator...good defender but not better than some other players who are gonna get probably lower salaries.

At least one person is starting to see the light. The collisions and aminus of the world are a major waste of money. Those guys are not game changers.

BobbieL wrote:

Qwigglez wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:The Conley trade is still interesting to me even with the much lower cap space. That would shore up our PG position for at least the next couple of seasons and with Oubre resigned, that would put us over the salary cap and makes the MLE ($8.6m) available for a PF. That could be a guy like Randle, Thaddeus Young, Aminu, Portis, Kleber and MAYBE Mirotic

The MLE is projected to go up to $9.2m since the projected cap is going up to $109m. From what I've gathered the cap is going up 7% and the MLE should do the same. At least that's what I've read.

Randle I think has outplayed an MLE type contract. I think he will likely see something in the $12m range. Young would be interesting, and Aminu would be a solid veteran to have as well.

The next two dominoes if you will are the draft and Tyler Johnson. One would think he opts in for the 19.4m large - but if he does, do they ship him to Cleveland and than waive JR Smith. Or do you make the trade with the Grizzlies for Conley.

I think Aminu and Thad Young are good candidates. Bleber would be outstanding but I think the Mavs match his offer.

I keep seeing this. WHY would Cleveland trade JR Smith for Tyler Johnson? Why wouldn't they just waive JR Smith?

This would be like them wanting to sign Tyler Johnson for $15 million or whatever It makes zero sense so I don't understand it.

Is it something that makes sense like they can't waive JR Smith but another team can?

The Bucks pick certainly isn't worth like $15 million. Am I missing something?

alamin330 wrote:

Saberestar wrote:

BobbieL wrote:
The next two dominoes if you will are the draft and Tyler Johnson. One would think he opts in for the 19.4m large - but if he does, do they ship him to Cleveland and than waive JR Smith. Or do you make the trade with the Grizzlies for Conley.

I think Aminu and Thad Young are good candidates. Bleber would be outstanding but I think the Mavs match his offer.

I do not want Aminu, he was exposed in the playoffs.

He is too limited on offense and with a ton of miles already on his body.

Not a good finisher or creator...good defender but not better than some other players who are gonna get probably lower salaries.

At least one person is starting to see the light. The collisions and aminus of the world are a major waste of money. Those guys are not game changers.

Yeah, they are not game changers, but improvements on what we have. But you add even average players to take over say, Josh Jackson's minutes it would lead to significant improvement.

jcsunsfan wrote:

MathiasPW wrote:Good stuff.

I think we don't have Benders cap hold in our books, as we renounced his rights, no? Most likely we would resign him for way cheaper, as he is not worth his current salary.

I also don't ever want to see JR Smiths name involved with the Suns, even if just for a trade and waive.

Watch on YouTube

There is no point in maintaining a cap hold for Bender.

Yes there are certain situations where you maintain the cap holds for Bender, Daniels, and Holmes.

In particular, suppose you make a trade of Jackson and the #6 pick for a decent PG. You can now use the MLE ($9.2M) and BAE ($3.5M) to sign other veterans. Then, because you've maintained the cap holds, decide which of Holmes, Bender, and/or Daniels you would like to keep. Using their bird rights you can exceed the cap and make them offers (better than any other team).

Qwigglez wrote:Hey guys, I created a spreadsheet on our updated salary cap situation.





In the very first scenario, it has us keeping almost everyone (Bender has a pretty high cap hold). 2nd scenario is simply renouncing Bender's right. 3rd scenario is without Bender or Holmes. 4th scenario is using the stretch provision on Tyler Johnson (along with no Bender/Holmes). 5th scenario includes renouncing Oubre. 6th scenario is if we trade Tyler Johnson (and the Bucks pick) for JR Smith, and then waiving JR Smith, it creates about $2.6 Million in extra cap space.

The last scenario is one we've been talking about lately, and that's trading for Conley (Tyler Johnson, Josh Jackson, Bucks pick, future pick or 2nd rounders). If we traded for Conley and kept our 6th pick, we'd only have about $3.8 Million in cap space. However that's if we renounced Richaun Holmes and Dragan Bender. If we keep both of them we are over the cap by almost $2 Million. It is likely in our best interest to keep both Holmes and Bender if we were to trade for Conley. The reason for that is so we can utilize the mid level exception which is projected to be at $9.25 Million, and the bi-annual exception at $3.6 Million. Use both of those exceptions and also keep Oubre. Maybe use the MLE on someone like Nikola Mirotic, Jeff Green, and the BAE on someone like Corey Brewer, Jeremy Lin.

Conley / Booker / Oubre / Mirotic / Ayton
Melton / Bridges / Warren / Clarke / Holmes + Bender


*edit you can also renounce Holmes and still get the MLE and BAE.

Nice job. I think it might make things more clear if you added the MLE and BAE as players to your spreadsheet. Technically the top-left example where we have waive Crawford, Daniels, etc but keep Bender and Holmes the Suns have $119M of salary and are $11M over the cap because the MLE and BAE should be included in the cap. The only way to get cap space is to renounce the MLE and BAE and most of our free agents.