Welcome Cam Johnson

[suns12345]

This thread is a trip. It's like 100 posts of 'what the **** was that pick', then pretty shortly after actually seeing him play its a sharp turn to 'oh this dude is actually good'

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It took him a little bit to get into NBA ready condition, but because he is very smart (both on and off the court), and has great shooting form, he matured quickly. He should be starting.

I think im starting to agree with you rundog.

If only shamet was a little better and maybe we had another scoring threat at SF, Crowder might be a better fit with the bench.

[RunDogGun]

This thread is a trip. It's like 100 posts of 'what the **** was that pick', then pretty shortly after actually seeing him play its a sharp turn to 'oh this dude is actually good'

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It took him a little bit to get into NBA ready condition, but because he is very smart (both on and off the court), and has great shooting form, he matured quickly. He should be starting.

I think im starting to agree with you rundog.

If only shamet was a little better and maybe we had another scoring threat at SF, Crowder might be a better fit with the bench.

I understand that most want a scoring threat from the bench, but wouldn't we rather have a scoring threat from the start of the game? If our best three point shooter is also solid on defense, and rebounds similarly to the starting player, we lose nothing by putting him with our starters, who will most likely draw the defense leaving our best shooter open more often. Putting him to the bench with lesser passers and players allows defenses to stick to him more and not worry so much about the other guys because statistically Johnson is the biggest threat from the bench.

Moreover, Bridges seems to play better alongside Johnson, so starting them together gives us another advantage. Also I have noticed that Johnson reacts quicker when a player on the far side is in trouble, or is having trouble getting the ball to Ayton in the post, Johnson leaves the three point line, comes to the free throw area to be open for a pass to facilitate the post pass to Ayton.

We rarely ever play the whole bench at once, and we don't have hockey line shifts like Gentry used, so being concerned whether Johnson scores 16 off the bench, or 23 starting, shouldn't make a difference in the end. He is our best shooter, get him going early, and worry about rotations as they are needed.

[RunDogGun]

It took him a little bit to get into NBA ready condition, but because he is very smart (both on and off the court), and has great shooting form, he matured quickly. He should be starting.

I think im starting to agree with you rundog.

If only shamet was a little better and maybe we had another scoring threat at SF, Crowder might be a better fit with the bench.

I understand that most want a scoring threat from the bench, but wouldn't we rather have a scoring threat from the start of the game? If our best three point shooter is also solid on defense, and rebounds similarly to the starting player, we lose nothing by putting him with our starters, who will most likely draw the defense leaving our best shooter open more often. Putting him to the bench with lesser passers and players allows defenses to stick to him more and not worry so much about the other guys because statistically Johnson is the biggest threat from the bench.

Moreover, Bridges seems to play better alongside Johnson, so starting them together gives us another advantage. Also I have noticed that Johnson reacts quicker when a player on the far side is in trouble, or is having trouble getting the ball to Ayton in the post, Johnson leaves the three point line, comes to the free throw area to be open for a pass to facilitate the post pass to Ayton.

We rarely ever play the whole bench at once, and we don't have hockey line shifts like Gentry used, so being concerned whether Johnson scores 16 off the bench, or 23 starting, shouldn't make a difference in the end. He is our best shooter, get him going early, and worry about rotations as they are needed.

Now if we had a pf from the bench like Bagley, it would make some sense starting Crowder at the 4 and giving Johnson minutes at the sf spot, then Bridges can take spot minutes at the 2, and Johnson spot minutes at the four, splitting Crowder and Bagley at the 4. Or if Stix was solid at the 4, same thing. But Stix hasn't seen many minutes as the backup four, and we don't have a regular pf like Bagley. (yet )

[Saberestar]

I think im starting to agree with you rundog.

If only shamet was a little better and maybe we had another scoring threat at SF, Crowder might be a better fit with the bench.

I understand that most want a scoring threat from the bench, but wouldn't we rather have a scoring threat from the start of the game? If our best three point shooter is also solid on defense, and rebounds similarly to the starting player, we lose nothing by putting him with our starters, who will most likely draw the defense leaving our best shooter open more often. Putting him to the bench with lesser passers and players allows defenses to stick to him more and not worry so much about the other guys because statistically Johnson is the biggest threat from the bench.

Moreover, Bridges seems to play better alongside Johnson, so starting them together gives us another advantage. Also I have noticed that Johnson reacts quicker when a player on the far side is in trouble, or is having trouble getting the ball to Ayton in the post, Johnson leaves the three point line, comes to the free throw area to be open for a pass to facilitate the post pass to Ayton.

We rarely ever play the whole bench at once, and we don't have hockey line shifts like Gentry used, so being concerned whether Johnson scores 16 off the bench, or 23 starting, shouldn't make a difference in the end. He is our best shooter, get him going early, and worry about rotations as they are needed.

Now if we had a pf from the bench like Bagley, it would make some sense starting Crowder at the 4 and giving Johnson minutes at the sf spot, then Bridges can take spot minutes at the 2, and Johnson spot minutes at the four, splitting Crowder and Bagley at the 4. Or if Stix was solid at the 4, same thing. But Stix hasn't seen many minutes as the backup four, and we don't have a regular pf like Bagley. (yet )

That would change the way we play on offense.

We play a 4-out 1-in offense with a ton of handoffs and Crowder/Cam J can shoot from 3 on the move or with their feet set.

Bagley is a frontcourt player, 4/5 that can shot an stationary three but doesn't have the mobility or shooting ability needed on our system.

That is why Craig was a good fit last year at PF too.

[bwgood77]

Bagley sucks. One of the worst defenders I've seen. Also shoots 24% from 3.

On top of that he wants tons of money and his dad gets mad and is vocal if he doesn't play. Don't really care about his dad but there are not really positives there.

I can't see Jones or Monty having any interest in him whatsoever.

[suns12345]

It took him a little bit to get into NBA ready condition, but because he is very smart (both on and off the court), and has great shooting form, he matured quickly. He should be starting.

I think im starting to agree with you rundog.

If only shamet was a little better and maybe we had another scoring threat at SF, Crowder might be a better fit with the bench.

I understand that most want a scoring threat from the bench, but wouldn't we rather have a scoring threat from the start of the game? If our best three point shooter is also solid on defense, and rebounds similarly to the starting player, we lose nothing by putting him with our starters, who will most likely draw the defense leaving our best shooter open more often. Putting him to the bench with lesser passers and players allows defenses to stick to him more and not worry so much about the other guys because statistically Johnson is the biggest threat from the bench.

Moreover, Bridges seems to play better alongside Johnson, so starting them together gives us another advantage. Also I have noticed that Johnson reacts quicker when a player on the far side is in trouble, or is having trouble getting the ball to Ayton in the post, Johnson leaves the three point line, comes to the free throw area to be open for a pass to facilitate the post pass to Ayton.

We rarely ever play the whole bench at once, and we don't have hockey line shifts like Gentry used, so being concerned whether Johnson scores 16 off the bench, or 23 starting, shouldn't make a difference in the end. He is our best shooter, get him going early, and worry about rotations as they are needed.

Yeh, I think I'm more concerned about Jae being an absolute donut with the bench unit, and worse than that, going even more steph curry mode than he already does with the starters

[bigfoot]

I just have got believe that signing Cam Johnson is a much higher priority than Ayton. CamJo has a high BBIQ, is a sharp-eyed shooter, has handles, and plays defense.

[RunDogGun]

Jae is often a donut with the starting unit, so I think we are already there. I think he will chuck whether he is starting or coming off the bench. I would rather have his muscle coming off the bench, and it doesn't matter if he is with lesser passers, he will let it fly.

[RunDogGun]

Bagley sucks. One of the worst defenders I've seen. Also shoots 24% from 3.

On top of that he wants tons of money and his dad gets mad and is vocal if he doesn't play. Don't really care about his dad but there are not really positives there.

I can't see Jones or Monty having any interest in him whatsoever.

I was looking for rebounding at the pf spot, which Bagley can easily do in the minutes that Monty has been given the pf spot. If he wants a ton of money next year, that is moot really because we can let him sign any offer sheet, and not match. We would get out of Saric's contract, which we don't know if he can return this year, or return to form, and he sucks at rebounding. Stix isn't getting any burn, which would be my first option since we already have him, but if Monty won't play him even when we need a big, then we aren't losing anything there either. But we know Bagley can put up 10/8 in 23 minutes, because he can do that right now. Maybe a new place could spark him. For me a player who can play now, is better than Saric, who isn't able to play.

If Bagley walks, we save Saric's salary and we could find a cheaper rebounder. Like I said, I would rather play Stix at the four because he gets boards, but if he isn't going to get on the court, what are we losing? Saric isn't a good defender either, nor a rebounder, and very slow, and we started him at the 4 just 2 years ago.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I thank you for weighing the pros and cons of my trade idea.

[RunDogGun]

I just have got believe that signing Cam Johnson is a much higher priority than Ayton. CamJo has a high BBIQ, is a sharp-eyed shooter, has handles, and plays defense.

Its confusing really. He is solid at everything, and great at shooting. He has improved his driving ability, and almost always makes the right play. But it seems like we are purposely limiting his court time. Crowder still gets more minutes and the start regardless of whether he can't shoot a lick. But any extension for Cam wouldn't kick in until the 23-24 season, while Ayton will be a RFA, and we will be forced to make a decision this summer.

Are we purposely limiting Cam to try and get him for less? He was one of our best players going back to the Denver series, but barely could get 20 minutes a game. Last night he missed his first three threes, and then ended with 4-8. This means he went 4-5 after those first missed threes. It just seems like we aren't maximizing his talent.

But if I was his agent, I would be asking for a lot, and point to the The Sham deal vs proven ability with the team and production. Cam is very smart both on and off the court, so does he weigh being on a contending team for a lower amount, or possibly get more somewhere else?

Ayton should be our priority if he can reproduce what he did in the playoffs. He was a major factor why we advanced each series.

[bwgood77]

I think Cam is a really solid player. And I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they valued him more than Ayton. But I don't think that would be very smart.

I mean you really have to figure out a way to keep both. If Sarver can't, sell the damn team.

If we lose Ayton we are not winning a championship unless we face battered teams in every series. The guy is still 23 too. Cam is 26 in a month. He should have a higher bbiq after playing 5 years in college and playing on this team. Ayton's iq was really bad coming in to where I was worried. But it has increased so dramatically vs my expectations that I've been really impressed. I think Cam already had a very iq coming in. Was already a great shooter and smart player.

[WeekapaugGroove]

There's some interesting connect the dots with Cams potential contact. He switched agents to CAA and Devins Dad. Chris Paul is also CAA. Booker is up for a huge extension, I'm not saying they will let him play GM but they do want him happy.

Probably nothing but there was a little line from Pauls JJ Reddick interview I found interesting. He was talking about calling Booker after the trade and asking about the group and he said Booker was hyping up Cam and Bridges and saying he was going to love those guys.

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[Saberestar]

Today it's his birthday (26).

What about his next contract? He is playing great and I think he deserves a little less than Mikal. Probably around $80M/4 years.

[bwgood77]

Today it's his birthday (26).

What about his next contract? He is playing great and I think he deserves a little less than Mikal. Probably around $80M/4 years.

I don't know. It depends on whether they gauge market value or just give him a contract. I don't think they gauged market value with him.

I am unsure who I see offering him that much. There are something like 5 teams with cap space. I don't really see Detroit or OKC doing it. Orlando or SA maybe, though SA got McDermott and has lots of wings. Portland might be the main one.

I think it depends on his play and if it keeps up or regresses a little more than before shooting wise like last year. I think he is benefitting with the injuries and getting more playing time.

Ignoring comparison to bloated Shamet contract, I think anywhere from $15 million to $20 million maybe. Some elite shooters of past have gotten overpaid. He certainly deserves as much as guys like Duncan Robinson and Bertans. Value is kind of all over the place. OG makes about $18 I think. Bojan Bogdanovic makes around that too. Then Zach Lavine, Sabonis and FVV make around that.

My guess is something like 4/$72, but all those others have or had been starters for awhile and have been all stars and all star caliber for at least 2 years.

Normally it doesn't seem like we overpay but did with Shamet.

Prior to this year 538 has his value at around $10 million. They had Bridges at a little over $25 million. Obviously Cam's is definitely low, but he's not longer a sub 35% 3pt shooter either....is elite this year and overall game continuing to improve.

It's kind of hard from another team's standpoint for them to want to offer $20 million a year, but obviously they can't this summer. We could also wait if they think he wants too much to see if he regresses a bit back down on shooting next year. No one really ever shoots his % consistently year after year.

[Saberestar]

Today it's his birthday (26).

What about his next contract? He is playing great and I think he deserves a little less than Mikal. Probably around $80M/4 years.

I don't know. It depends on whether they gauge market value or just give him a contract. I don't think they gauged market value with him.

I am unsure who I see offering him that much. There are something like 5 teams with cap space. I don't really see Detroit or OKC doing it. Orlando or SA maybe, though SA got McDermott and has lots of wings. Portland might be the main one.

I think it depends on his play and if it keeps up or regresses a little more than before shooting wise like last year. I think he is benefitting with the injuries and getting more playing time.

Ignoring comparison to bloated Shamet contract, I think anywhere from $15 million to $20 million maybe. Some elite shooters of past have gotten overpaid. He certainly deserves as much as guys like Duncan Robinson and Bertans. Value is kind of all over the place. OG makes about $18 I think. Bojan Bogdanovic makes around that too. Then Zach Lavine, Sabonis and FVV make around that.

My guess is something like 4/$72, but all those others have or had been starters for awhile and have been all stars and all star caliber for at least 2 years.

Normally it doesn't seem like we overpay but did with Shamet.

Prior to this year 538 has his value at around $10 million. They had Bridges at a little over $25 million. Obviously Cam's is definitely low, but he's not longer a sub 35% 3pt shooter either....is elite this year and overall game continuing to improve.

It's kind of hard from another team's standpoint for them to want to offer $20 million a year, but obviously they can't this summer. We could also wait if they think he wants too much to see if he regresses a bit back down on shooting next year. No one really ever shoots his % consistently year after year.

Salaries go up and up every year, so most of those contracts are not a good comparison for Cam Johnson's contract extension.

He has increased his value and future salary with his play this season. Before th start of the season I was thinking around $60M/4 years, but that doesn't seem a realistic option anymore.

[suns12345]

Today it's his birthday (26).

What about his next contract? He is playing great and I think he deserves a little less than Mikal. Probably around $80M/4 years.

I don't know. It depends on whether they gauge market value or just give him a contract. I don't think they gauged market value with him.

I am unsure who I see offering him that much. There are something like 5 teams with cap space. I don't really see Detroit or OKC doing it. Orlando or SA maybe, though SA got McDermott and has lots of wings. Portland might be the main one.

I think it depends on his play and if it keeps up or regresses a little more than before shooting wise like last year. I think he is benefitting with the injuries and getting more playing time.

Ignoring comparison to bloated Shamet contract, I think anywhere from $15 million to $20 million maybe. Some elite shooters of past have gotten overpaid. He certainly deserves as much as guys like Duncan Robinson and Bertans. Value is kind of all over the place. OG makes about $18 I think. Bojan Bogdanovic makes around that too. Then Zach Lavine, Sabonis and FVV make around that.

My guess is something like 4/$72, but all those others have or had been starters for awhile and have been all stars and all star caliber for at least 2 years.

Normally it doesn't seem like we overpay but did with Shamet.

Prior to this year 538 has his value at around $10 million. They had Bridges at a little over $25 million. Obviously Cam's is definitely low, but he's not longer a sub 35% 3pt shooter either....is elite this year and overall game continuing to improve.

It's kind of hard from another team's standpoint for them to want to offer $20 million a year, but obviously they can't this summer. We could also wait if they think he wants too much to see if he regresses a bit back down on shooting next year. No one really ever shoots his % consistently year after year.

Salaries go up and up every year, so most of those contracts are not a good comparison for Cam Johnson's contract extension.

He has increased his value and future salary with his play this season. Before th start of the season I was thinking around $60M/4 years, but that doesn't seem a realistic option anymore.

I think no matter what happens, we need to sign him this offseason. It's pretty obvious to me his value will only go up as he gets more experience/opportunities

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If Cam keeps shooting the way he's been shooting, we'll be lucky to get him at $20 million per.

The luxury tax is about to become a real problem. I half-expect we'll trade a future pick to get off a contract on draft night. I'm sure we'll try.

[lilfishi22]

I always expected his baseline to be around $15-18m but he's really playing himself into the $20-25m market now. It's awesome but concerning at the same time. Guys like Cam are invaluable. He can stick on guys most of the time on defense, he's smart on both ends of the court, he's actively attacking closeouts, he shoots an insane % from range and he's a great team mate.

[suns12345]

I always expected his baseline to be around $15-18m but he's really playing himself into the $20-25m market now. It's awesome but concerning at the same time. Guys like Cam are invaluable. He can stick on guys most of the time on defense, he's smart on both ends of the court, he's actively attacking closeouts, he shoots an insane % from range and he's a great team mate.

Yeh, he's a cut above these other noted shooters in the league (robinson, bertans, etc.) when he is making his 3's like he is now.

Got good size, can handle, pass, defend, athletic, and working on his game as a 3 dimensional scorer now.

I hope we get him for something good now, and see it become a good contract later.

That said, giving him a big number isn't a scary as a Bertans type contract - the dude clearly has game as an all round guy and is far from just a specialist. Makes clutch 3's too.

[lilfishi22]

I always expected his baseline to be around $15-18m but he's really playing himself into the $20-25m market now. It's awesome but concerning at the same time. Guys like Cam are invaluable. He can stick on guys most of the time on defense, he's smart on both ends of the court, he's actively attacking closeouts, he shoots an insane % from range and he's a great team mate.

Yeh, he's a cut above these other noted shooters in the league (robinson, bertans, etc.) when he is making his 3's like he is now.

Got good size, can handle, pass, defend, athletic, and working on his game as a 3 dimensional scorer now.

I hope we get him for something good now, and see it become a good contract later.

That said, giving him a big number isn't a scary as a Bertans type contract - the dude clearly has game as an all round guy and is far from just a specialist. Makes clutch 3's too.

I haven't seen the cap sheets for other teams but I would love it if we can get him on a good deal this offseason rather than wait for restricted free agency because it could be disastrous. Some guys you don't mind waiting for restricted free agency (...like Shamet for example) because you should have a vague idea of what their likely value would be and more importantly, the likelihood a random team would put forward a ridiculous offer. Cam is not in that bucket. He's definitely worth something real on the market.

And if we were to make parallels to Bridges last season, I think the two major difference between Bridges who we expected to get a big RFA offer and us getting him on a reasonable deal at around $22.5m a year, is that outside of defense, Cam has had a better year than Bridges contract year imo and we're not even in the playoffs yet where we saw Cam thrive last season. The other difference is that Cam is much more of a willing/aggressive scorer/shooter than Bridges and wing scorers these days get paid very well

Bridges (2021) vs Cam (2022) per100 stats
Points: 20.4 vs 22.8
Rebounds: 6.5 vs 7.6
Assists: 3.2 vs 2.8
Turnovers: 1.2 vs 1.1
FGA: 14.4 vs 16.6
FG%: .543 vs .469
3PA: 6.6 vs 10.7
3P%: .425 vs .437
TS%: .667 vs .637
ORTG: 131 vs 126
DRTG: 112 v 108
Net Rating: +19 vs +18

So they are already pretty close, although I should note Bridges plays a good chunk of his minutes next to a HOF PG and the rest of our starters whereas Cam is more likely to play next to Payne and the 2nd unit. Now if we take Cam's per100 stats as a starter, it gets STUPID

Bridges (2021) vs Cam (2022 as starter in 13gms) per100 stats
Points: 20.4 vs 25.1
Rebounds: 6.5 vs 7.0
Assists: 3.2 vs 3.2
Turnovers: 1.2 vs 1.1
FGA: 14.4 vs 16.1
FG%: .543 vs .541
3PA: 6.6 vs 10.4
3P%: .425 vs .489
TS%: .667 vs .724
ORTG: 131 vs 141
DRTG: 112 vs 113
Net Rating: +19 vs +28

And I don't want to blow completely out of proportion because we're still only talking 13 games but for one more comparison for comical reasons, this is 2022 NBA All-Star Andrew Wiggins per100 stats:
Points: 26.9 vs 25.1
Rebounds: 6.5 vs 7.0
Assists: 3.3 vs 3.2
Turnovers: 2.2 vs 1.1
FGA: 21.4 vs 16.1
FG%: .475 vs .541
3PA: 8.5 vs 10.4
3P%: .406 vs .489
TS%: .572 vs .724
ORTG: 111 vs 141
DRTG: 107 vs 113
Net Rating: +4 vs +28

Given this, if we let Cam hit RFA, we're in for a world of hurt (assuming there's money in the open market) because he's going to be stupid expensive.